800 new buses & 40 new bus routes (8 to ply MRT) by 2016
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ST Kinetics now a bodybuilder? /facepalm
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To the purchasing of buses, it's only the companies can decide what buses are they buying no point posting here SBST or SMRT should buy or could buy which buses...
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
If all the 550 new buses from govt are going to be from MAN, then I hope this happens.
SBST
- 200 MAN LionCity or A22 with MCV Evolution body
- 150 MAN double deckers
SMRT
- 100 MAN A22 with current Gemilang body
- 100 MAN double deckers
The rest of the 250 buses
SBST
- 150 Mercedes Benz Citaro 3
SMRT
- 100 Scania K270UB with Gemilang body
- 50 MAN double deckers
I hope this will be the new fleet for SMRT and SBST:
SBST:
- 100 Volvo B5Ls (Wright Eclipse Gemini 2)
- 150 Scania K310UDs (Gemilang or Salvador Caetano)
- 150 Volvo B7RLEs (MCV Evolution)
SMRT:
- 200 Mercedes-Benz Citaros (EvoBus GmbH)
- 100 Mercedes-Benz Citaro Gs (EvoBus GmbH)
- 50 MAN NG313
- 50 MAN NG363F -
Originally posted by Acx1688:
Some wishful thinkin of bus fans to replace existing buses with newer types on the market forgetting the cost of purchase.
Totally ignorant of fees/spare parts/maintenance costs
With all the complaints of MB Citaro's capacity, there are still dreamer bus fans wishing for the impossible
ACx
Very well said bro!!All suka suka want Volvo B5L/Alexander E200 and all the other buses that the bus companies here might nvr even buy..Still can dream of all this impossibles.
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Originally posted by vicamour:
Thus it makes more economical and operative sense for SMRTB to buy double deckers instead of more of those bendy buses. The new interchanges are getting smaller but bus companies are going to expand their fleet, makes no sense for getting bendy buses to add more woes in parking spaces in interchanges and bus depots. Moreover there aren't many routes with height restriction nowadays. Even so, bus operators will prefer to deploy more single deckers to improve the freqencies instead. The only advantage is faster alighting with the additional door, but with the poor maintanance of SMRTB, many EZlink card readers don't work at the 3 door and people love to cramp around the front trailer area which instead defeats the purpose yet waste more road space. Lastly, newest QC standards demands better frequncies for all feeder services. Thus it means more buses for the feeder service. It has already make no sense to use bendy buses in future. Thus I hope SMRTB will wise up this time to switch to using double deckers from now on, to optimise their economical and operative sense in operating their bus business. Or else just like someone mentioned earlier on, if they continue to neglect their bus business, then might as well give it up.To add on to your point (which I fully agree with), the advantage of lesser board/alighting time at bus stops is only in theory. In practice, it is often not so given how lazy most bus passengers are to walk all the way.
I mean, look man, the distance is even longer than walking to the end of a 12m DD. And given how people love to cramp at the front of DDs and not move in, what makes us think that pax on Bendies will move in?
In fact, i've noticed that for the Bendies on my side (i'm not sure about the rest), the SLs take much longer at the bus stops because they had to continually check if all alighting pax have gotten off, and if pax has moved in, then check again if all 3 sets of doors have closed properly. So the alighting time part is only in theory lah.
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somemore we've CBD bus stops located right at traffic junction area...
use bendy...
I guess the Air Show bus ops today also should address why no to bendies le
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
Yeah. Most of SMRTB's woes lie with TIBS's acquisitions.
TIBS had a hodge-podge fleet with a huge bendy fleet. Quite a nightmare as far as mainteinance and day-to-day operations is concerned. There too, have been insider stories of how TIBS had been bleeding and the use of accounting tools to transfer losses, but of course that's not verified, but I wouldn't be surprised at that.
SMRT could on the other hand, have taken a decisive step in eliminating these little pockets of here-there-everywhere types. They didn't. And understandably too, given how replacing them would be extremely expensive and hit profit figures. It took many years before SMRT made the OC500 acquisition, during which time, the DAF, Hino, Dennis, Merc, Nissan, Scania (just look at how many types already!) languished.
So whose fault? I am inclined to blame the government although I would think that hindsight is always 6/6 and the government in fairness, has recognised the need to incentivise upcoming bus purchases, although it still remains perplexing that the $1.1b would be a "one-off" exercise.
Yeah, i do have to say that SMRT has been quite concerned (when i mean quite, it is actually VERY concerned) with their increase in profits margins yearly under the previous Ms Saw.
And I don't think SMRT saw it as a liability that time when they took over since the Bendies were only like a few years old back then? Still very much roadworthy in turnover value. Probably that's why they didn't bother cutting off their Bendies and going after DDs instead.
But in the near future, sooner or later the Govt would advise them to use DDs. It's not just with regards to the length of bus stops and the road space, even at Interchanges and Depots, they still take up much more space. I mean, if you give the same plot of land to SBST & SMRT, SBST would be able to fit more buses since all their buses are standard 12m (except 997A), regardless SD or DD. SMRT has like some buses at 12m, the other Bendies at near 18m, how to squeeze all of them in?
The extra 6m per Bendy in parking can add up to another equal plot of land already lor if they have like hundreds of Bendies in the same depot.Even when drawing parking lots at Interchanges also mafan. When you can fit in like 6 12m buses nose-to-tail, you can only fit in 4 18m Bendies in return. For Interchanges such as Yishun & Woodlands, if they were to use DDs, lots more buses can park in those places. Won't even have the parking crunch at the SMRT depots already.
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Originally posted by Gus.chong:
I hope this will be the new fleet for SMRT and SBST:
SBST:
- 100 Volvo B5Ls (Wright Eclipse Gemini 2)
- 150 Scania K310UDs (Gemilang or Salvador Caetano)
- 150 Volvo B7RLEs (MCV Evolution)
SMRT:
- 200 Mercedes-Benz Citaros (EvoBus GmbH)
- 100 Mercedes-Benz Citaro Gs (EvoBus GmbH)
- 50 MAN NG313
- 50 MAN NG363FI rather have the 100 B5Ls to be Mercedes-Benz Citaro 3 for SBST, unless there is a 3 axles version of the B5L. 100 Scania K310UDs will do. Another 50 for E500 bodied Volvo B9TL
For SMRT, most likely there will be more MAN bus since SMRT is switching to MAN.
So.
- 50 Mercedes-Benz Citaros (EvoBus GmbH)
- 100 MAN A22
- 150 MAN Double DeckersOriginally posted by SBS 9631X:Yeah, i do have to say that SMRT has been quite concerned (when i mean quite, it is actually VERY concerned) with their increase in profits margins yearly under the previous Ms Saw.
And I don't think SMRT saw it as a liability that time when they took over since the Bendies were only like a few years old back then? Still very much roadworthy in turnover value. Probably that's why they didn't bother cutting off their Bendies and going after DDs instead.
But in the near future, sooner or later the Govt would advise them to use DDs. It's not just with regards to the length of bus stops and the road space, even at Interchanges and Depots, they still take up much more space. I mean, if you give the same plot of land to SBST & SMRT, SBST would be able to fit more buses since all their buses are standard 12m (except 997A), regardless SD or DD. SMRT has like some buses at 12m, the other Bendies at near 18m, how to squeeze all of them in?
The extra 6m per Bendy in parking can add up to another equal plot of land already lor if they have like hundreds of Bendies in the same depot.Even when drawing parking lots at Interchanges also mafan. When you can fit in like 6 12m buses nose-to-tail, you can only fit in 4 18m Bendies in return. For Interchanges such as Yishun & Woodlands, if they were to use DDs, lots more buses can park in those places. Won't even have the parking crunch at the SMRT depots already.
Fully agreed.Talking about SBS997A, it think this year is its last year. Don't know will there be extensions given to it.
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As for those who still harbour wishful thinking for 14.5m buses, just check out 997A's special "parking lot" at HGDEP.
It was the same story with 998Y and 999U with their special "parking lots" at Tampines.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
As for those who still harbour wishful thinking for 14.5m buses, just check out 997A's special parking lot at HGDEP (the side of the parking lots).
I heard that back in the 1990s, when SBS trial the bus and if the trial is successful, they will convert all their single deckers to 14.5m buses, but it will be better if there is a 3rd door behind.Moreover SBS had thought of bringing in the bi-articulated buses if the trial for SBS998Y back in 1996 is successful.
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I reckon it was a really good choice that SBST sstuck with DDs all the way after playing with a couple of bendies and finding out that they are really not suitable with the way the roads and infrastructure have been designed.
Too bad that TIBS decided to be different in just about every way when they could.......and today's woes from that is what we see.
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Originally posted by SBS9252G:
To the purchasing of buses, it's only the companies can decide what buses are they buying no point posting here SBST or SMRT should buy or could buy which buses...
Yeah u just say abit nvm la.But some of them really seem to be posting here just like as if its ordering food from some restaurant like that..'I want 200 of this and 150 of that and 100 of that model blah blah blah'..Some of the models they r demanding for,its a huge doubt whether sbst or SMRT would even want to bring in them in the 1st place anot,they can still ask in quantities somemore.I mean its not wrong to post what models u wish to see here la,but some of their demandings seem to have gone really wild and overboard. -
Originally posted by Merczrox:
Yeah u just say abit nvm la.But some of them really seem to be posting here just like as if its ordering food from some restaurant like that..'I want 200 of this and 150 of that and 100 of that model blah blah blah'..Some of the models they r demanding for,its a huge doubt whether sbst or SMRT would even want to bring in them in the 1st place anot,they can still ask in quantities somemore.I mean its not wrong to post what models u wish to see here la,but some of their demandings seem to have gone really wild and overboard.We demand for more Citaros!!
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
I reckon it was a really good choice that SBST sstuck with DDs all the way after playing with a couple of bendies and finding out that they are really not suitable with the way the roads and infrastructure have been designed.
Too bad that TIBS decided to be different in just about every way when they could.......and today's woes from that is what we see.
Reckoning that SBS Transit was more familiar with double deckers since they were using it since as early as the 80s. TIBS on the other hand had success with bendies, if not there won't be 3 generations of O405Gs purchased.
There are advantages and disadvantages of the double decks and the bendies though, from our own point of views. But for the operators, they can see the benefit of double decker/bendies. -
Originally posted by buses[IN]gapore!:
Reckoning that SBS Transit was more familiar with double deckers since they were using it since as early as the 80s. TIBS on the other hand had success with bendies, if not there won't be 3 generations of O405Gs purchased.
There are advantages and disadvantages of the double decks and the bendies though, from our own point of views. But for the operators, they can see the benefit of double decker/bendies.And what kind of success did they have with the Lance that prompted them to purchase more of them?
Choice of fleet isn't just cost and benefit. Sometimes, there's more than meets the eye although I would also allow for some degree of idiocy.
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Originally posted by buses[IN]gapore!:
Reckoning that SBS Transit was more familiar with double deckers since they were using it since as early as the 80s. TIBS on the other hand had success with bendies, if not there won't be 3 generations of O405Gs purchased.
There are advantages and disadvantages of the double decks and the bendies though, from our own point of views. But for the operators, they can see the benefit of double decker/bendies.TIBS bought more bendies as a short term solution for their fleet expansion back then to cater the higher demands.
I see using bendies as more of a failure for SMRT after these years. -
Originally posted by buses[IN]gapore!:
Reckoning that SBS Transit was more familiar with double deckers since they were using it since as early as the 80s. TIBS on the other hand had success with bendies, if not there won't be 3 generations of O405Gs purchased.
There are advantages and disadvantages of the double decks and the bendies though, from our own point of views. But for the operators, they can see the benefit of double decker/bendies.I think whatever benefits that they thought of when using Bendies or DDs is in fact only in theory. In reality, it always differs cause the pax just refuses to move in..
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
TIBS bought more bendies as a short term solution for their fleet expansion back then to cater the higher demands.
I see using bendies as more of a failure for SMRT after these years.And to a certain extent, Bendies are in a way less safe than DDs.
I mean sure, DDs has higher likelihood of tipping over at turns, but the 60kmh limit sorts of limits that possibility.
For Bendies, I've found that in some buses, the rear trailer is already starting to lose traction even before 40kmh under full acceleration. They are still quite safe now, but that's because their rear tyres are gripping well for now on the straights.
If your Bendy is travelling at full acceleration along roads with ups and downs, alot of turns and in the wet, it is absolutely terrifying. And when Bendies start to speed with degraded tyres (since SMRT likes to cut costs, you never know), err, you know what might happen. Just look at how many Youtube vids are there of Bendies breaking traction. -
Is how you figure the pros and cons. And which overweighs the other.
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Both bendies and DDs have it's advantages and disadvantages... But for the purchasing of buses, the companies will decide on which bus they are buying....no point suggesting what buses for the companies to buy.
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Originally posted by Acx1688:
Some wishful thinkin of bus fans to replace existing buses with newer types on the market forgetting the cost of purchase.
Totally ignorant of fees/spare parts/maintenance costs
With all the complaints of MB Citaro's capacity, there are still dreamer bus fans wishing for the impossible
ACxall suka suka i want 100 this, 150 that, 300 this.......
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Tibs era was anyway, new towns like Bt Panjang in the 1990s was pretty small... Now you see the Blk 270 bus mess whenever it's full bendy arrivals. I still remembered their PRO was saying bendy unloads fast. But problem is wat abt boarding? lol... Say 190, 960. Actually Tibs didn't forsee that towns would grow pretty fast and bus interchanges would still be designed dominantly by 12m of length.
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Originally posted by Gus.chong:
I hope this will be the new fleet for SMRT and SBST:
SBST:
- 100 Volvo B5Ls (Wright Eclipse Gemini 2)
- 150 Scania K310UDs (Gemilang or Salvador Caetano)
- 150 Volvo B7RLEs (MCV Evolution)
SMRT:
- 200 Mercedes-Benz Citaros (EvoBus GmbH)
- 100 Mercedes-Benz Citaro Gs (EvoBus GmbH)
- 50 MAN NG313
- 50 MAN NG363FThat's good. But the B7RLE is a low-entry chassis. B9L is a low-floor chassis.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
Moreover SBS had thought of bringing in the bi-articulated buses if the trial for SBS998Y back in 1996 is successful.
erm, biarticulated bus has two trailers... 998 is articulated.
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Originally posted by Myhabit:
That's good. But the B7RLE is a low-entry chassis. B9L is a low-floor chassis.
What's the difference? No bus can be made 100% low floor due to the engine.
And yeah, articulated buses have one bend/two sections; biarticulated buses have two bends/three sections.
The only articulated bus I approve of is the Volvo B10MA, because it's a puller config which is easier to maintain.