800 new buses & 40 new bus routes (8 to ply MRT) by 2016
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
Bus companies should look into praticability in operations, not trying to be different for the sake of it. It is really a short sighted decision, which in turn looms into big problems for SMRT now.
KMB, CityBus, CMB are all different bus companies trying to operate different but why do all of them use double deckers? It's a simple logic for all 3 companies, highly populated areas have problems have land and road constraints. Thus they never use bendies in such kind of roads, which Singapore faces the same problem too.
Bendies are the generally the better choice when there is high passenger movement and high passenger load. In fact, they just gotten more relevent after the fare system was redesigned.
Look more deeply into the differences between SG and HK before making the comparision. Singapore operates mostly on distance based fares, regardless of how many transfers thats been made. Commuters benefit as there's always a bus to their house by transferring.
However, the same distance based fares also causes a rather unexpected problem. Feeders and even some trunk services are now being heavily utilised as commuters just need to pay 1 or 2cents to save some walking. This becomes a big problem as there's now have large amount of people just taking a bus for a few stops and getting off. Putting a DD on such feeder service would simply cause everyone to stay on the lower deck. (who would climb up and down the stairs just for a less than 5 minutes ride?) This is where bendies excel.
HK on the other hand does not use distance based fares. Commuters pay a fixed fare which differs by service and there is generally very limited transfer rebates. Even if there is 5 different services serving between two points, fares can range from $3.20 (50cents sg) to $10 and above ($2 and above). Obviously people will always take the cheaper option. You might ask, so whats the more expensive services for? These services typically crosses the harbour and goes for a much longer distance, and usually direct to a town center or a place that people wants to go. This is very well the reason why KMB CTB NWFB uses DD, and its because services are very direct and there's minimal people who take longer distance services for just a few stops.
They simply do not have a need to move large amounts of people for just a few stops unlike what the distance based fares has caused to our bus network!
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Originally posted by Gus.chong:
So when TIBS was re-branded as SMRT they still have to be like TIBS?
No wonder why I don't see DDs on TIBS buses, yet SBS had single rigids, bendies and DDs together at a point of time only.
It's up to the company's decision. If SMRT were to phase out those bendies, the company itself will have to source out for other replacements, such as rigids. -
No relevance as HK's MTR feeder have to choice but to use feeders with their fleet lineup. Literally, I believe they went for more ADD to standardise the fleet. That said, many feeders like 291 has a lot of short distance commuters to say N2. But equally lots that take into N3. It's all just abt moving up once your travelling bus stop is more than 5. Anyway, once you've a sizeable feeder svs, the mealbreak parking needs how? Look at WRL, see the mess.
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Originally posted by SBS8533C:
It's up to the company's decision. If SMRT were to phase out those bendies, the company itself will have to source out for other replacements, such as rigids.Oh i see thanks.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
No relevance as HK’s MTR feeder have to choice but to use feeders with their fleet lineup.
Literally, I believe they went for more ADD to standardise the fleet.
That said, many feeders like 291 has a lot of short distance commuters to say N2. But equally lots that take into N3.
It’s all just abt moving up once your travelling bus stop is more than 5.
Anyway, once you’ve a sizeable feeder svs, the mealbreak parking needs how?
Look at WRL, see the mess.
MTR bus accounts for only 3% of all passenger journey made on franchised buses daily in HK. They also have the largest ratio of single decks in their fleet, at about 20%.
Most importantly, MTR bus only provides coverage mainly on areas not linked up by the Light Rail, and most MTR bus services are free-of-charge when transferring to and from east, west rail and light rail lines.
This creates a rather huge demand on the feeder services, and therefore they do face problems similar to sbst. Buses are often packed during peak hours and one of their solution is to run feeder services which are very direct, some with just 2 to 3 stops and still operated with a dd.
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Originally posted by watson374:
SMRT needs more bendies like this
That's taken in SYD rite? Is that the Volgren-bodied B12BLEA?
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I want 600 Scania KUDs and the rest of them KUAs. No prizes for guessing which bus model for which company.
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Originally posted by iveco:
That's taken in SYD rite? Is that the Volgren-bodied B12BLEA?
Yup! I used to take them regularly on 333.
Why did SBST go for 230 and not 310?
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Originally posted by watson374:
Yup! I used to take them regularly on 333.
Why did SBST go for 230 and not 310?
What?! SBS Transit have bendies?
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Originally posted by Gus.chong:
What?! SBS Transit have bendies?
Is it the new MAN bendy??? -
Originally posted by Gus.chong:
Your SMRT fleet looks like mine, except for the Citaro 3 and the quantity.
Citaro 3 is what I would prefer than Citaro 2. I wonder if it's available for purchase worldwide for Citaro 3.
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Originally posted by SMB228X:
Is it the new MAN bendy???No. Watson has said that the bendy is Volvo B12BLEA.
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Originally posted by Myhabit:
Citaro 3 is what I would prefer than Citaro 2. I wonder if it's available for purchase worldwide for Citaro 3.
So the Citaros SBST and SMRT have currently are Citaro 2?
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Originally posted by Gus.chong:
So the Citaros SBST and SMRT have currently are Citaro 2?
Yes.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Bendies are the generally the better choice when there is high passenger movement and high passenger load. In fact, they just gotten more relevent after the fare system was redesigned.
Look more deeply into the differences between SG and HK before making the comparision. Singapore operates mostly on distance based fares, regardless of how many transfers thats been made. Commuters benefit as there's always a bus to their house by transferring.
However, the same distance based fares also causes a rather unexpected problem. Feeders and even some trunk services are now being heavily utilised as commuters just need to pay 1 or 2cents to save some walking. This becomes a big problem as there's now have large amount of people just taking a bus for a few stops and getting off. Putting a DD on such feeder service would simply cause everyone to stay on the lower deck. (who would climb up and down the stairs just for a less than 5 minutes ride?) This is where bendies excel.
HK on the other hand does not use distance based fares. Commuters pay a fixed fare which differs by service and there is generally very limited transfer rebates. Even if there is 5 different services serving between two points, fares can range from $3.20 (50cents sg) to $10 and above ($2 and above). Obviously people will always take the cheaper option. You might ask, so whats the more expensive services for? These services typically crosses the harbour and goes for a much longer distance, and usually direct to a town center or a place that people wants to go. This is very well the reason why KMB CTB NWFB uses DD, and its because services are very direct and there's minimal people who take longer distance services for just a few stops.
They simply do not have a need to move large amounts of people for just a few stops unlike what the distance based fares has caused to our bus network!
It depends to individual mindset to move up or not. If your trip is less than 2 stops, yes, it is better to stay in the lower deck. If it is more, then might as well go up. Treat it as an exercise, not being lazy and inconsiderate.
It is the same case for bendy buses as well. If my trip is less than 5 mins, why should I bother to move all the way to the back??? Thus this causes half filled bendies hogging the roads, delaying other buses schedules, causing long queues and jams along bus stops, bus interchanges. Parking is a nightmare for depots. Our limited land space isn't suitable for these kind of buses, it's a fact.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
It depends to individual mindset to move up or not. If your trip is less than 2 stops, yes, it is better to stay in the lower deck. If it is more, then might as well go up. Treat it as an exercise, not being lazy and inconsiderate.
It is the same case for bendy buses as well. If my trip is less than 5 mins, why should I bother to move all the way to the back??? Thus this causes half filled bendies hogging the roads, delaying other buses schedules, causing long queues and jams along bus stops, bus interchanges. Parking is a nightmare for depots. Our limited land space isn't suitable for these kind of buses, it's a fact.
So what would you propose to make people less lazy and more considerate? Would you tell the auntie whos holding 3 bags of groceries, the senior who have difficulties walking straight, or the primary school kids who might fall off the stairs to move upstairs? These are the people who take feeder services often, and these factors are not directly within the bus co's control. Selecting different types of vehicles however, are within their control.
As for bendy buses, theres much more incentive for people to move to the rear, as theres no steps to climb, and theres also a exit door. Remember that the purpose of bendy buses are to move high passenger volume over short distances. Of course no one ask them to throw it on longer distance trunk services like 190 where people take for a long distance. I would then agree with you that would be a waste of road space, and yet not effectively using the vehicle.
How much parking space do you need to run a fleet of bendies for feeder services? What needs to be done is to reduce bendy fleet size, not eliminate them totally.
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I still believe the drivers who are driving the respective types of buses can give a more accurate assessment of the effects of DDs and bendies so far.
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Originally posted by Gus.chong:
What?! SBS Transit have bendies?
Oh, sorry; I meant Sydney STA 333 - Circular Quay - Nth Bondi (Limited Stop; PrePay Only)
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Originally posted by buses[IN]gapore!:
I still believe the drivers who are driving the respective types of buses can give a more accurate assessment of the effects of DDs and bendies so far.
Not really. If you drive DDs, you don't drive bendies, and vice versa. I don't think the BCs can help that much.
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Originally posted by watson374:
Not really. If you drive DDs, you don't drive bendies, and vice versa. I don't think the BCs can help that much.
Let me clarify on this point : Our opinions here can be verified with the drivers of their respective types of buses because they experience it first hand daily as part of their job routine. It's not the drivers who can give a comparision.
Note that i mention the drivers can give a more accurate assement - "the effects of DDs and bendies so far." for all of us to have a more accurate view of the two types of vehicles. -
Originally posted by buses[IN]gapore!:
Let me clarify on this point : Our opinions here can be verified with the drivers of their respective types of buses because they experience it first hand daily as part of their job routine. It's not the drivers who can give a comparision.
Note that i mention the drivers can give a more accurate assement - "the effects of DDs and bendies so far." for all of us to have a more accurate view of the two types of vehicles.Alright. This makes far more sense now.
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For the ultimate in performance, fuel economy and powertrain longevity, you can't go past the Mercedes-Benz Citaro/OC 500-series with the OM 457 hLA engine or the MAN Lion's City (integral or chassis) with the D 2066 LUH EEV engine, both combined with the ZF-EcoLife gearbox with TopoDyn Life. Final drive for the Mercedes-Benz buses would be 5.77:1 (Citaro), 5.43:1 (OC 500-series) or 5.74:1 (MAN). Tyres would be 275/70R 22.5 for commonality with existing buses on the network.
Other options include the Volvo B9-range (B9L/B9LA), Scania N-series (N280UB/N320UB, N320UA/N360UA) or Irisbus Citelis.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
It depends to individual mindset to move up or not. If your trip is less than 2 stops, yes, it is better to stay in the lower deck. If it is more, then might as well go up. Treat it as an exercise, not being lazy and inconsiderate.
It is the same case for bendy buses as well. If my trip is less than 5 mins, why should I bother to move all the way to the back??? Thus this causes half filled bendies hogging the roads, delaying other buses schedules, causing long queues and jams along bus stops, bus interchanges. Parking is a nightmare for depots. Our limited land space isn't suitable for these kind of buses, it's a fact.
Stop being so selfish and think about yourself. I don't care whether or not these people wants to move up to the upper deck, Neither do I care. It's their business. And please, spare a thought for those people who needs them the most - I don't give a shit about whether or not our land's infrastructure is suitable or not, So long the people feels that they are comfortable with bendies, That's fine with me.
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Sorry.
B*tch all you like.
But clearly LTA agrees with me and 1000U: They aren't doing much to improve the infrastructure for bendies. And whatever for in any case?
You don't care about whether the infrastructure is designed for bendies?
Boy, you sure are the selfish one.
WRI is a mess now in no small part to bendies. It wasn't the case in the initial years.
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Even the WTCP bus stop getting problematic also lol