800 new buses & 40 new bus routes (8 to ply MRT) by 2016
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I'm wondering if both bus operators are going to expand their current depots to accomodate the extra buses. One way to optimise land use is to build multi-storey depot to replace existing ones. Better still, build on top of the train depots (eg NEL Buangkok depot). I think the Changi and Bishan train depots are wasting lots of land space. Can re-construct partially to accomodate multi-storey facilities instead.
With the shrinking new bus interchanges (av only abt 2 parking lots per sv), how is LTA going to accomodate extra buses during peak periods? Make bus captains rest shorter?? And how to accomodate somemore new bus svcs to improve connectivity?
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Govt's move to fund bus purchases sparks public concern
SINGAPORE: The government's move to spend S$1.1 billion over the next 10 years to fund the purchase of 550 SBS Transit and SMRT buses has sparked concerns among some Singaporeans.
A few have written to the government's feedback portal REACH, questioning why the government is using public funds to help profit-driven companies.
SBS Transit and SMRT are public-listed private enterprises.
Analysts said the government's move to help the two public transport operators grow their bus fleet does not mean a free lunch for them. They said commuters would stand to benefit from higher service standards, which are likely to be imposed on SBS Transit and SMRT.
Observers said the government's move is not unique. In affluent cities in Europe and Australia, private operators receive public-funded buses in order to achieve a more efficient transport network.
Assistant Professor Paul Barter from the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy said: "In Singapore, if the government is going to be helping a private sector operator in this way, we would not do it in an open-ended way.
"We will need to set higher service standards. If we are giving money for the buses, we expect higher service in return. It would not just be a gift. There would be expectation of improved service."
Analysts said although the two operators are making profits overall, they have been weighed down by bus operations.
Latest data showed SBS Transit incurring an operating loss of S$6 million due mainly to increased fuel and staff costs.
Meanwhile, SMRT said it incurred a higher operating loss of S$1.7 million due to the same reasons.
So the assistance will come in handy to help boost capacity and meet the anticipated growth in demand.
Analyst John Rachmat from the Royal Bank of Scotland said: "The situation is such that the bus operations are not generating enough profits for the operators.
"In fact, in many cases, (they) are incurring losses. So if this continues, there will be no new investments in buses in Singapore and as a result, the public will suffer from more overcrowding."
With the government's funding for additional buses, "hopefully, what we will see is a lot more frequent bus services, a lot lesser overcrowding and more profits for the operators because that will be the reason for them to deliver the better services," said Mr Rachmat.
"In a way, they will earn more profits but in exchange for that, the public will see a lot better bus service in Singapore."
Observers believe the S$1.1 billion fund will not only go towards helping operators grow their fleet.
Given the big sum of money, there are indications it could also help operators get the manpower they need to run the buses.
They could increase salaries to make the job more attractive, particularly to Singaporeans.
Minister of State for Transport Josephine Teo said with the government chipping in to buy new buses, public transport operators must improve their service standards.
Mrs Teo on Wednesday defended the government's move to co-fund new buses at a post-Budget dialogue organised by feedback unit REACH.
"What Singaporeans want is quicker solutions," she said.
"They don't want to wait so long. So it's with Singaporean needs in mind that we assessed that the better way to do it, the faster way to do it, the more efficient way of doing it, is to partner the existing public transport operators to deliver the increased capacity."
Charles Chong, a member of the Government Parliamentary Committee (GPC) for Transport, said: "With the grant, I think this eliminates some of their excuses...that they can't get drivers (because) they can't pay them enough."
"This grant should not be used to bump up profits for shareholders -- it is meant really to help serve the public better, because you are using public funds for this; the expenditure should benefit the public," he added.
Mr Chong said operators are expected to bump up bus frequencies and serve more areas.
Analysts said they believe the operators will see operating costs going up in the short run. But the higher costs are unlikely to be transferred to commuters as higher fares.
Details on the S$1.1 billion fund are expected in the upcoming Budget debate.
- CNA/wk/ir -
Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
So? SMRT bus fleet is much lesser, of course the ratio of certain models is smaller. That's normal. Lesser of that model doesn't mean they need to purchase more of it. If that is the case, the ratio of Mercedes Benz buses is only 10% of the whole SBST fleet. Thus they should get more Citaros instead to increase the ratio of Mercedes Benz buses in the SBST fleet to decrease the ratio of Scania buses instead.
And I rather have more Enviro 500 for dds instead. Too much Scanias in SBST fleet. Anyway, don't think there is a full low floor Scania K series, so K310UD is out.
You want more Scanias then write to SMRT to get 14.5m Scania K310UB single deckers to replace all the bendies. This I will fully support.
Even if the fleet is lesser, but the buses will be pharsed out no matter what. Citaros for SMRT to my choice is a good option, and if you really want SBST to buy more Citaros, go ahead and people will hate you if SBST bought a total on 1,100 Citaros.
And haven't you learn this word: No buses can be made 100% low floor due to the engine? So what's the heck you disagree with me asking SBST to buy Scania K310UDs? Aren't the Wrights that were introduced a few months ago not low floor?
I of course want more Scanias, but what I want is SBST to have at least 1 K310UB. I still won't accept no bendies in SMRT fleet.
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Originally posted by Airbus330Captain:
No more lousy scania buses. Bad suggestion to even consider the lousy products from Scania. Mr keyboard warrior and the fellow bus 163 fellows: Please stop trolling and annoying the rest of us who are enjoying this hobby. The best solution is just put up with it and shut up or set your own company.Only those people who hates the good ones will say Scanias are lousy. If you don't want Scania buses, go and set up your bus company and purchase 100% Volvo or Mercedes-Benz fleet.
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Originally posted by watson374:
I'm pretty sure DDs are legally limited to 12m. SDs at 14.5m are feasible, but not DDs.
I support SD 14.5 with 3 doors.
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Originally posted by nfshp253:
I don’t see any road constraints. They have 12m DDs plying extremely narrow roads and 90 degree turns in HK, so I don’t see why Singapore thinks that 14.5m is too large for the generally wide and gentle winding roads.
That's why I like the 14.5m Scania K310UBs.
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Attention please, this place is not for you to have flame wars. If you have no place to start your flame wars, why don't I start a flame war forum instead?
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Originally posted by SBS3057T:
Attention please, this place is not for you to have flame wars. If you have no place to start your flame wars, why don't I start a flame war forum instead?
Debate against/ for articulated buses..... Hope SBS/ TIBS sees this.
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Originally posted by SBS9067A:
Debate against/ for articulated buses..... Hope SBS/ TIBS sees this.
What do you mean?
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Originally posted by SBS3057T:
Attention please, this place is not for you to have flame wars. If you have no place to start your flame wars, why don't I start a flame war forum instead?
You aren't a mod, and you have a grand total of 20 posts.
You're welcome :L
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Originally posted by SBS3057T:
What do you mean?
He hopes that SMRT Buses and SBS Transit will, you know, take a peek here and see what the People think of bendy buses and deckers, and take it into account when they next go bus shopping.
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Originally posted by watson374:
You aren't a mod, and you have a grand total of 20 posts.
You're welcome :L
Even if I'm not a moderator, but I knew everything here. Look at the introductions thread, you will know that not everyone need the number of posts to prove their ability.
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Originally posted by watson374:
He hopes that SMRT Buses and SBS Transit will, you know, take a peek here and see what the People think of bendy buses and deckers, and take it into account when they next go bus shopping.
Haha..bus shopping...very interesting and funny.
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Originally posted by SBS3057T:
Even if I'm not a moderator, but I knew everything here. Look at the introductions thread, you will know that not everyone need the number of posts to prove their ability.
You knew. Do you still know? And the important point is that you're not a mod. Only mods can censure members.
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Originally posted by SBS3057T:
Haha..bus shopping...very interesting and funny.
I'm flattered that you find my phrasing amusing.
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Originally posted by watson374:
You knew. Do you still know? And the important point is that you're not a mod. Only mods can censure members.
And the important point is, you also don't know either. I was just being sarcastic. If you really can't stand sarcasm, I bet you can't stand those who were sarcastic either.
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Originally posted by watson374:
I'm flattered that you find my phrasing amusing.
That's because I never heard any bus company adding buses to their carts before.
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Originally posted by SBS3057T:
And the important point is, you also don't know either. I was just being sarcastic. If you really can't stand sarcasm, I bet you can't stand those who were sarcastic either.
I value sarcasm greatly. I know enough to know that as a Right Honourable Member, I cannot censure other members.
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Originally posted by SBS3057T:
That's because I never heard any bus company adding buses to their carts before.
Units not to scale?
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Originally posted by Gus.chong:
Even if the fleet is lesser, but the buses will be pharsed out no matter what. Citaros for SMRT to my choice is a good option, and if you really want SBST to buy more Citaros, go ahead and people will hate you if SBST bought a total on 1,100 Citaros.
And haven't you learn this word: No buses can be made 100% low floor due to the engine? So what's the heck you disagree with me asking SBST to buy Scania K310UDs? Aren't the Wrights that were introduced a few months ago not low floor?
I of course want more Scanias, but what I want is SBST to have at least 1 K310UB. I still won't accept no bendies in SMRT fleet.
You already have tons of people hating you when you don't suggest Citaros for SBST.
I think Citaros are not suitable for SMRT because they don't maintain them properly, and the in board annoucements are really a nuisance. At least SBST ones are quieter and they might improve the air con system once the warranty of the buses are up, just like adding outlets in the KUBs. I have no worries for SBST improving their fleet as they always do refurnishments and improvements as the buses ages.
If SBST has already gone forward to get full low floor buses, why should they go backwards to buy low entry buses again? If they suddenly have switched to full low floor for the batch of Wright B9TLs, that means there will be something happening in the future, else why have to waste more money for changes for the new fleet? They are projecting something in future, thus they begin to buy full low floor buses, like Citaros and full low floor Wright B9TLs, which will save them the troubles for more changes in future. I feel that the purchase of full low floor buses will be mandatory in 3 to 5 years time.
I think there are enough Scanias in SBST fleet. Relying too much in one brand is no good. Just look at how much SBST had spent for the past years to modify the KUBs to make them better, because of so much problem in them when they were first introduced.
14.5m buses don't work well for SBST for now. Even SBS997A failed the trial in the 1990s. If you want a Scania K310UB 14.5m bus, then tell SMRT to get one fleet to trial.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
You already have tons of people hating you when you don't suggest Citaros for SBST.I think Citaros are not suitable for SMRT because they don't maintain them properly, and the in board annoucements are really a nuisance. At least SBST ones are quieter and they might improve the air con system once the warranty of the buses are up, just like adding outlets in the KUBs. I have no worries for SBST improving their fleet as they always do refurnishments and improvements as the buses ages.
If SBST has already gone forward to get full low floor buses, why should they go backwards to buy low entry buses again? If they suddenly have switched to full low floor for the batch of Wright B9TLs, that means there will be something happening in the future, else why have to waste more money for changes for the new fleet? They are projecting something in future, thus they begin to buy full low floor buses, like Citaros and full low floor Wright B9TLs, which will save them the troubles for more changes in future. I feel that the purchase of full low floor buses will be mandatory in 3 to 5 years time.
I think there are enough Scanias in SBST fleet. Relying too much in one brand is no good. Just look at how much SBST had spent for the past years to modify the KUBs to make them better, because of so much problem in them when they were first introduced.
14.5m buses don't work well for SBST for now. Even SBS997A failed the trial in the 1990s. If you want a Scania K310UB 14.5m bus, then tell SMRT to get one fleet to trial.
Yes! That is why SBS should get more Citaros and maybe even Citaro Gs for feeders! -
Originally posted by Gus.chong:
Even if the fleet is lesser, but the buses will be pharsed out no matter what. Citaros for SMRT to my choice is a good option, and if you really want SBST to buy more Citaros, go ahead and people will hate you if SBST bought a total on 1,100 Citaros.
And haven't you learn this word: No buses can be made 100% low floor due to the engine? So what's the heck you disagree with me asking SBST to buy Scania K310UDs? Aren't the Wrights that were introduced a few months ago not low floor?
I of course want more Scanias, but what I want is SBST to have at least 1 K310UB. I still won't accept no bendies in SMRT fleet.
1,100 Citaros is a dream come true! New Citaros please! SBS and SMRT should get THE BEST OR NOTHING!! -
Originally posted by Airbus330Captain:
No more lousy scania buses. Bad suggestion to even consider the lousy products from Scania. Mr keyboard warrior and the fellow bus 163 fellows: Please stop trolling and annoying the rest of us who are enjoying this hobby. The best solution is just put up with it and shut up or set your own company.My my, this forum sure takes after its former owner doesn't it?
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Oh my god...this topic should be a discussion thread but it end up become an argument thread...
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Originally posted by SBS3057T:
Oh my god...this topic should be a discussion thread but it end up become an argument thread...
Arguments and discussions are the same thing, only with different levels of passion and volume.