Double Deckers for SMRT
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Originally posted by SBS9252G:
From Thomson Road-TB takes me alr 40-50....Added time with the Tekka area jam
20 mins is excluding jams.
Whole journey for 851 is 1h 30min inclusive of massive jams at Chinatown, Bugis and Rochor Canal Rd/Rochor Rd.
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Originally posted by TIB 501 D:
Actually if SMRT dun wan bendies why they still list it in the tender, for show???
Anyways, I can think of pros and cons of SMRT having DDs only.
Pros
1. Less jams at the bus stop, bus int and road(esp. one lane roads like Tiong Bahru Rd) Less parking woes at the bus int and depots.
2. More seats.
Cons
1. The runtime of SMRT services will be longer. From Thomson Rd-Tiong Bahru, it will take 20mins for 851. But with DDs, 40mins... Service 300/302's runtime will also be longer.
2. Some services with road issues cannot have DDs either, like service 800, which has a tight turn at Yishun St 71(same as C'wealth Dr issue).
I would still prefer bendies for Feeders/Intratowns and Short Distance routes like 856/859/962/964 etc. and DDs for CBD services and Long Distance Routes.
CCK has no problems with bendies. Absolutely no problem.
BBT no problems but parking woes. Current situation is still fine.
BPJ has bus stop, road and parking woes. Have to reduce the number.
SBW has no problems with bendies. Absolutely no problem.
YIS has bus stop, road, bus int and parking woes. Have to reduce the number.
WDL has bus int and parking woes. Have to reduce the number.
But bear in mind, once you use DDs, the runtime for 300/302/800/804/806/811/812/856/859/900/901/903/911/912/913/962/964 will be longer. DDs have speed issues as well as boarding and alighting issues and the top deck issues.
Keep in mind that service 969's runtime will be severly lengthened by x2!
Boarding and alighting
If the commuters vacate the bus earlier with the help of an extra door, wouldn't the commuters be able to board faster too? Since when the commuters alighted, there will be more space to move in to the rear. But boarding only at interchanges is a problem.
Bendy to unload- 2 mins.
DD to unload- 6 mins.
3 Doors DD to unload- 4 mins due to the NARROW stairs.
This is especially very useful on the high demand services 800/804/806/811/812/912/913.
3 Doors DD
Yes, 3 Doors DD is useful, but have you ever forgotten about the stairs? Narrow and steep, commuters at the upper deck still have to climb down, which is slow and troublesome.
Top Deck Issues
Yes, more people have moved up to the top deck recently, like 291/334/Bedok/Boon Lay Feeders(except 241A). But there are still people who refuse to go up, which is the reason why SBST refused to deploy DDs on service 238.(And due to tight turn issues).
Note: There ARE still some SBST services in which people don't move up. (I think SMB128B has mentioned about service 87/238 before. But I may have seen wrongly.)
And people not moving to the rear of a bendy is NOT true, look at WDL/YIS feeders and intratowns. 856 yes but nobody wanted to stand at the narrow rear aisle. Even on O405s, be it SD/DD(Lower Deck)/Bendy, nobody would want to stand at the narrow rear aisle. This excludes the top deck of DDs, due to the no standing rule. BTW there's no "that kind of aisle" at the top deck...
Just my 2 cents worth, dun blast me for this.
Personal experience:
854 bendy from Eunos Link to HG ave 2 takes the same amount of time as DD on 25 on the same route.
106 bendy from Stamford Road to Holland Village takes the same amount of time as DD on same route.
From where do you draw conclusions that 851 will take the double amount of time on DDs? It does not travel on expressway like 969 to chiong / drive fast - no scope.
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Originally posted by TIB 501 D:
Actually if SMRT dun wan bendies why they still list it in the tender, for show???
Anyways, I can think of pros and cons of SMRT having DDs only.
Pros
1. Less jams at the bus stop, bus int and road(esp. one lane roads like Tiong Bahru Rd) Less parking woes at the bus int and depots.
2. More seats.
Cons
1. The runtime of SMRT services will be longer. From Thomson Rd-Tiong Bahru, it will take 20mins for 851. But with DDs, 40mins... Service 300/302's runtime will also be longer.
2. Some services with road issues cannot have DDs either, like service 800, which has a tight turn at Yishun St 71(same as C'wealth Dr issue).
I would still prefer bendies for Feeders/Intratowns and Short Distance routes like 856/859/962/964 etc. and DDs for CBD services and Long Distance Routes.
CCK has no problems with bendies. Absolutely no problem.
BBT no problems but parking woes. Current situation is still fine.
BPJ has bus stop, road and parking woes. Have to reduce the number.
SBW has no problems with bendies. Absolutely no problem.
YIS has bus stop, road, bus int and parking woes. Have to reduce the number.
WDL has bus int and parking woes. Have to reduce the number.
But bear in mind, once you use DDs, the runtime for 300/302/800/804/806/811/812/856/859/900/901/903/911/912/913/962/964 will be longer. DDs have speed issues as well as boarding and alighting issues and the top deck issues.
Keep in mind that service 969's runtime will be severly lengthened by x2!
Boarding and alighting
If the commuters vacate the bus earlier with the help of an extra door, wouldn't the commuters be able to board faster too? Since when the commuters alighted, there will be more space to move in to the rear. But boarding only at interchanges is a problem.
Bendy to unload- 2 mins.
DD to unload- 6 mins.
3 Doors DD to unload- 4 mins due to the NARROW stairs.
This is especially very useful on the high demand services 800/804/806/811/812/912/913.
3 Doors DD
Yes, 3 Doors DD is useful, but have you ever forgotten about the stairs? Narrow and steep, commuters at the upper deck still have to climb down, which is slow and troublesome.
Top Deck Issues
Yes, more people have moved up to the top deck recently, like 291/334/Bedok/Boon Lay Feeders(except 241A). But there are still people who refuse to go up, which is the reason why SBST refused to deploy DDs on service 238.(And due to tight turn issues).
Note: There ARE still some SBST services in which people don't move up. (I think SMB128B has mentioned about service 87/238 before. But I may have seen wrongly.)
And people not moving to the rear of a bendy is NOT true, look at WDL/YIS feeders and intratowns. 856 yes but nobody wanted to stand at the narrow rear aisle. Even on O405s, be it SD/DD(Lower Deck)/Bendy, nobody would want to stand at the narrow rear aisle. This excludes the top deck of DDs, due to the no standing rule. BTW there's no "that kind of aisle" at the top deck...
Just my 2 cents worth, dun blast me for this.
In your own list, the cons for bendies are longer with parking issues almost in every terminal / interchange.
CCK also has parking problems though not as grave as Woodlands / BPJ / YIS. But will function better with DDs.
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Originally posted by TIB 501 D:
Actually if SMRT dun wan bendies why they still list it in the tender, for show???
Anyways, I can think of pros and cons of SMRT having DDs only.
Pros
1. Less jams at the bus stop, bus int and road(esp. one lane roads like Tiong Bahru Rd) Less parking woes at the bus int and depots.
2. More seats.
Cons
1. The runtime of SMRT services will be longer. From Thomson Rd-Tiong Bahru, it will take 20mins for 851. But with DDs, 40mins... Service 300/302's runtime will also be longer.
2. Some services with road issues cannot have DDs either, like service 800, which has a tight turn at Yishun St 71(same as C'wealth Dr issue).
I would still prefer bendies for Feeders/Intratowns and Short Distance routes like 856/859/962/964 etc. and DDs for CBD services and Long Distance Routes.
CCK has no problems with bendies. Absolutely no problem.
BBT no problems but parking woes. Current situation is still fine.
BPJ has bus stop, road and parking woes. Have to reduce the number.
SBW has no problems with bendies. Absolutely no problem.
YIS has bus stop, road, bus int and parking woes. Have to reduce the number.
WDL has bus int and parking woes. Have to reduce the number.
But bear in mind, once you use DDs, the runtime for 300/302/800/804/806/811/812/856/859/900/901/903/911/912/913/962/964 will be longer. DDs have speed issues as well as boarding and alighting issues and the top deck issues.
Keep in mind that service 969's runtime will be severly lengthened by x2!
Boarding and alighting
If the commuters vacate the bus earlier with the help of an extra door, wouldn't the commuters be able to board faster too? Since when the commuters alighted, there will be more space to move in to the rear. But boarding only at interchanges is a problem.
Bendy to unload- 2 mins.
DD to unload- 6 mins.
3 Doors DD to unload- 4 mins due to the NARROW stairs.
This is especially very useful on the high demand services 800/804/806/811/812/912/913.
3 Doors DD
Yes, 3 Doors DD is useful, but have you ever forgotten about the stairs? Narrow and steep, commuters at the upper deck still have to climb down, which is slow and troublesome.
Top Deck Issues
Yes, more people have moved up to the top deck recently, like 291/334/Bedok/Boon Lay Feeders(except 241A). But there are still people who refuse to go up, which is the reason why SBST refused to deploy DDs on service 238.(And due to tight turn issues).
Note: There ARE still some SBST services in which people don't move up. (I think SMB128B has mentioned about service 87/238 before. But I may have seen wrongly.)
And people not moving to the rear of a bendy is NOT true, look at WDL/YIS feeders and intratowns. 856 yes but nobody wanted to stand at the narrow rear aisle. Even on O405s, be it SD/DD(Lower Deck)/Bendy, nobody would want to stand at the narrow rear aisle. This excludes the top deck of DDs, due to the no standing rule. BTW there's no "that kind of aisle" at the top deck...
Just my 2 cents worth, dun blast me for this.
Upper deck issues is a myth especially for trunk services. And even feeder services, 291 / 334 are doing very well with fully seated upper deck.
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Originally posted by OMSI123:
CCK no problem with bendy. If it has, then I agree with TIB 501 D
I can't agree with you... parking is a problem and if two bendies queue up at a single berth or even a bendy with a rigid queues up at a berth, kaput for smrt.
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the issue of placing bendies on the tender is pretty simple, continue on using it... investment made on bendy infrastructure on POV of SMRT... But ADDs are more externally induced factors... That's the diff...
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CCK's fine la. Parking and all that during peak hour not much issue. BBT have so few buses parking that there are always ample space available.
Cons aside, it is known and proven that bendies travel faster than DDs, period
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Originally posted by TIB868X:
I can't agree with you... parking is a problem and if two bendies queue up at a single berth or even a bendy with a rigid queues up at a berth, kaput for smrt.
Yes I understand that part about berths. But these woes don't occur too frequent until its a grave problem. Not hating on DDs though.
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Originally posted by cheezing:
CCK's fine la. Parking and all that during peak hour not much issue. BBT have so few buses parking that there are always ample space available.
Cons aside, it is known and proven that bendies travel faster than DDs, period
its all about the engine the bus has... and one wonders why smrt's bendies frequently overheat and even burn down. the enviro 500 is more than capable of outspeeding an o405g
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The fact is that bendy days are numbered.
Unless you suggest that the bus is actually exogenous to the infrastructure.
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the unloading time can be compensated w/ the fact that more units of buses can form up into the bus stop bay at 1 time...
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Personal experience:
854 bendy from Eunos Link to HG ave 2 takes the same amount of time as DD on 25 on the same route.
106 bendy from Stamford Road to Holland Village takes the same amount of time as DD on same route.
From where do you draw conclusions that 851 will take the double amount of time on DDs? It does not travel on expressway like 969 to chiong / drive fast - no scope.
Exaggerations. As simple as that.
Frankly if that was to be believed, then we have more reasons to be afraid of flying bendies.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
The fact is that bendy days are numbered.
Unless you suggest that the bus is actually exogenous to the infrastructure.
You might get a list of reasons to defend that, all senseless ones though -
I'm probably crude there, but no, I dont think they will.
Dont think they will bother to look up the cheem word that I intentionally put.
I'm sorry that I'm such a bastard.
But confound you people I enjoy.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
I'm probably crude there, but no, I dont think they will.
Dont think they will bother to look up the cheem word that I intentionally put.
I'm sorry that I'm such a bastard.
But confound you people I enjoy.
Ha ha ha ha... just waiting for the day when first DD comes on SMRT.
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Originally posted by TIB868X:
its all about the engine the bus has... and one wonders why smrt's bendies frequently overheat and even burn down. the enviro 500 is more than capable of outspeeding an o405g
If that's what you say then hopefully when SMRT acquires DD (if they ever do) they can change the Singapore commuters notion that DDs are snail moving and slow crawling high capacity buses.
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It's not a matter of fast or slow but efficient and practical.No parking woes or so.You go tour outside all smrt depots/onp at interchanges at night and you think deeply.Then probably u can understand why all this flamewars started.Its not like 1980s or 90s where we can afford to have bigger interchanges/Depots.See Soon lee and Woodlands all multi storey but still have buses parking outside the premises itself.So it's up to you to think.
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Originally posted by cheezing:
If that's what you say then hopefully when SMRT acquires DD (if they ever do) they can change the Singapore commuters notion that DDs are snail moving and slow crawling high capacity buses.
Where is scope to speed? Unless it is svc 969 but then 161, 168 don't do too bad either. They drive quite fast and I rarely see a 969 bendy overtaking them.
Anyway, 168 is direct service to Woodlands from Tampines unlike 969 that roams around North West before reaching Woodlands. So the commuters are different.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Where is scope to speed? Unless it is svc 969 but then 161, 168 don't do too bad either. They drive quite fast and I rarely see a 969 bendy overtaking them.
Anyway, 168 is direct service to Woodlands from Tampines unlike 969 that roams around North West before reaching Woodlands. So the commuters are different.
You still don't get what his logic means? I believe he is talking about the speed of a DD is slower than a bendy because of the height of the DD. The force of gravity become stronger with the height and with passengers onboard both decks, the DD becomes slower in travelling. Even though the passenger capacity affects the bendy as well, but length does not affect gravity and thus bendies are still faster than DDs.
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Singapore road heavy vehicles speed sure invite disaster either from other road users,Enforcement team and the passengers itself.Above 70 bendy already like snake and roller coaster if hit bump...Not much different.Which you prefer a bit slower but comfortable or roller coaster ride if a bit faster?
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Singapore road heavy vehicles speed sure invite disaster either from other road users,Enforcement team and the passengers itself.Above 70 bendy already like snake and roller coaster if hit bump...Not much different.Which you prefer a bit slower but comfortable or roller coaster ride if a bit faster?
To me I would chose the latter.
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As for short distance I prefer bendy but for long haul dd is just great
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Singapore road heavy vehicles speed sure invite disaster either from other road users,Enforcement team and the passengers itself.Above 70 bendy already like snake and roller coaster if hit bump...Not much different.Which you prefer a bit slower but comfortable or roller coaster ride if a bit faster?
Slow and steady.
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As for me I dun like too slow ie buses travel 45-50 on highways.55-65kmh is just right already cause with limiter you floor accelerator will make the bus engine more noisier
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the limiter should be raised to 70 or 75. its so irritating when the bus is on the expressway and its going so slowly compared to others. engine noisy as f
ck also