Double Deckers for SMRT
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tell me, who will go up to the upper deck if the ride is just about 10-15min? its not practic putting DDs on feeders which has many facilities along the route or if its short. extending it is not practical either because the extension area demand is prolly low and ypure just wasting fuel not picking up a reasonable amount of passengers.
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Dan474 why is not practical when svc like 222,240,291,334 has been successful using them at the fullest?Maybe for 243 or less than 6km is overkill but it's okay mah for long feeder/Intratown svc
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Just for info I've tried joyride the 291 B9TL Wright from Tampines Int to Tampines Int back to St 21 and hey it's quite nostalgic sial.Cant deny its fully pack lower deck but hey it's an average half full on upper deck sial especially for d 2nd sector.
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Just for info I've tried joyride the 291 B9TL Wright from Tampines Int to Tampines Int back to St 21 and hey it's quite nostalgic sial.Cant deny its fully pack lower deck but hey it's an average half full on upper deck sial especially for d 2nd sector.
East loop for 291 has half filled upper deck?
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Ya Lor maybe suay suay many ppl?
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Ya Lor maybe suay suay many ppl?
is 291 undergoing a bendy trial last time?
but half filled upper deck and full lower deck is like a full bendy, right?
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Dan474 why is not practical when svc like 222,240,291,334 has been successful using them at the fullest?Maybe for 243 or less than 6km is overkill but it's okay mah for long feeder/Intratown svc
243 needs it both for peak hour full day and all occasions. There has never been once I boarded 243W without long queues before, With the exception after 2200 hours (weekdays) 2330 (weekends)
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Originally posted by dan474:
tell me, who will go up to the upper deck if the ride is just about 10-15min? its not practic putting DDs on feeders which has many facilities along the route or if its short. extending it is not practical either because the extension area demand is prolly low and ypure just wasting fuel not picking up a reasonable amount of passengers.
Svc225~~ That time many old people at lower deck, ended up abit crowded~ Upper deck like not much people~
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Svc132 also... From Redhill MRT to Bt Merah Int lower deck crammed upper deck empty...
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thats why SDs with higher freq or bendies are more suitable for feeders. people are not so willing to move up. moving to the rear is much more easier and better, there is always another exit at the rear unlike DDs.
fyi DDs carry lesser people than bendies... so a full lower deck and half filled upper deck will be like a fully seated bendy with a few standees... -
Originally posted by dan474:
thats why SDs with higher freq or bendies are more suitable for feeders. people are not so willing to move up. moving to the rear is much more easier and better, there is always another exit at the rear unlike DDs.
fyi DDs carry lesser people than bendies... so a full lower deck and half filled upper deck will be like a fully seated bendy with a few standees...Volvo B9TL (WAB)
CDGE : 124
Wrights : 131
O405G
Mk1: 143
Mk2: 132
Habits: 132
Volgren: 132
Vo3x : 131
so what is this then ...
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Originally posted by dan474:
thats why SDs with higher freq or bendies are more suitable for feeders. people are not so willing to move up. moving to the rear is much more easier and better, there is always another exit at the rear unlike DDs.
fyi DDs carry lesser people than bendies... so a full lower deck and half filled upper deck will be like a fully seated bendy with a few standees...FOR SOME FEEDERS/INTRA-TOWN/TOWNLINKS :
1ST GRP : If I were to put myself into the shoe of those tired office workers/passengers, I would rather take rigid/bendy than DD, same goes to those in the rush(not going the upper deck, but rather stand at lower deck).2ND GRP : But still, if I were to put myself into the shoe of those tired construction workers(standing all day long), I would aim for any seats that's avaliable in the bus, of cause 1st deck first~
Which means to say, it all depends on the type of commuters~ But there's sure some commuters in both group acting the opposite way from what I've said (: If swey swey kenna the 1st one, no choice but to stand.
Anyway, JIE svc with DDs is the worst case I've seen~ Those workers either stand on the 2nd deck, or sit on the staircase steps~ Especially svc 249. Whenever there's a 2 buses bunching, the back bus alone would be packed~
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Dan474 why is not practical when svc like 222,240,291,334 has been successful using them at the fullest?Maybe for 243 or less than 6km is overkill but it's okay mah for long feeder/Intratown svc
Some services can work well doesn't mean all services will work well...
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Both bendies and DDs have approximately equal capacity IMO, I do agree that DDs are better in terms of shorter length and no articulator problem but you can't deny that bendies do not have height problems and can travel fast in general. Well, speed wise it will still have to depend on the drivers, but there are reasons why bendies are used for certain occasions such as Airshow Shuttles or MRT shuttles instead of double deckers.
Other countries such as HK can use full-fleet DDs doens't mean we have to follow them! We can have our own variety of buses of having both DDs and bendies (Well, I know that is a biased statement but that is not my main point anyway, but if bendies have their own advantage why not use them?).
SMRT has been operating quite okay all these while and I don't find anything wrong with the usage of bendies as high-capacity buses. Yes, you can say that 3 12-metre DDs are way better than 2 18-metre bendies. But if the service happens to be anti-DDs, doesn't make a difference. Well, you may say that time passes and there will be more new train lines such as DTL coming in, and by then no need bendies (Time still too early to tell and you still want to bullshit?). And don't forget, bus services also ply routes which MRTs do not operate on, and they might be faster than MRTs.
And even if SMRT were to buy DDs, which DD do you expect SMRT to buy? B9TL SBST have a thousand liao, and don't forget certain DDs have bus confirgurations which are not suitable for Singapore usage such as the Alexander Dennis Enviro 500. Although I may not have accurate sources here, I would still say that if you want DDs for SMRT, think of what DD model SMRT should buy before commenting.
Maybe if you want to argue that certain bus services which formerly uses DDs now use bendies but can still revert to bendies. Have you ever thought of why this happens? It can be because bendies happen to be a more effective high-capacity bus type for that PARTICULAR service.
For those who think that SMRT should transfer all bus services to SBST, think again. Don't forget that SBST also handles the North East Line and Downtown Line other than a large fleet of buses, and in the future who knows SBST will accquire control of more train services?
Both bendies and DDs work well together for these few years. As for WAB bendies wise, we can only wait for the results of the trial for the NG363F before making any reckless predictions.
If we really want to debate everything out why not just make a gamble on whether SMRT will ditch bendies or not (Whether SMRT will accquire bendies or not I dun really care) since we know that no matter how much we say you will never be convinced? Not being convinced doesn't mean that all our points are weak btw (though I admit there are still some), it's just that you always want to rebutt to all our weak points and make a mountain out of the molehill.
I won't force you if you want to take up the gamble in case you find it childish or unnecessary or whatsoever. Just rebut to my points as much as you want, cos' I already foresee that you will not be convinced as well.
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Originally posted by SBS8501U:
Some services can work well doesn't mean all services will work well...
Lol in the first place who is bullshiting who?I dun say SMRT should ditch bendies what and perhaps you should revert this to 1000U,sbst275,2601D or vicamour and see what they reply u k?
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Originally posted by SBS8501U:
Both bendies and DDs have approximately equal capacity IMO, I do agree that DDs are better in terms of shorter length and no articulator problem but you can't deny that bendies do not have height problems and can travel fast in general. Well, speed wise it will still have to depend on the drivers, but there are reasons why bendies are used for certain occasions such as Airshow Shuttles or MRT shuttles instead of double deckers.
Other countries such as HK can use full-fleet DDs doens't mean we have to follow them! We can have our own variety of buses of having both DDs and bendies (Well, I know that is a biased statement but that is not my main point anyway, but if bendies have their own advantage why not use them?).
SMRT has been operating quite okay all these while and I don't find anything wrong with the usage of bendies as high-capacity buses. Yes, you can say that 3 12-metre DDs are way better than 2 18-metre bendies. But if the service happens to be anti-DDs, doesn't make a difference. Well, you may say that time passes and there will be more new train lines such as DTL coming in, and by then no need bendies (Time still too early to tell and you still want to bullshit?). And don't forget, bus services also ply routes which MRTs do not operate on, and they might be faster than MRTs.
And even if SMRT were to buy DDs, which DD do you expect SMRT to buy? B9TL SBST have a thousand liao, and don't forget certain DDs have bus confirgurations which are not suitable for Singapore usage such as the Alexander Dennis Enviro 500. Although I may not have accurate sources here, I would still say that if you want DDs for SMRT, think of what DD model SMRT should buy before commenting.
Maybe if you want to argue that certain bus services which formerly uses DDs now use bendies but can still revert to bendies. Have you ever thought of why this happens? It can be because bendies happen to be a more effective high-capacity bus type for that PARTICULAR service.
For those who think that SMRT should transfer all bus services to SBST, think again. Don't forget that SBST also handles the North East Line and Downtown Line other than a large fleet of buses, and in the future who knows SBST will accquire control of more train services?
Both bendies and DDs work well together for these few years. As for WAB bendies wise, we can only wait for the results of the trial for the NG363F before making any reckless predictions.
If we really want to debate everything out why not just make a gamble on whether SMRT will ditch bendies or not (Whether SMRT will accquire bendies or not I dun really care) since we know that no matter how much we say you will never be convinced? Not being convinced doesn't mean that all our points are weak btw (though I admit there are still some), it's just that you always want to rebutt to all our weak points and make a mountain out of the molehill.
I won't force you if you want to take up the gamble in case you find it childish or unnecessary or whatsoever. Just rebut to my points as much as you want, cos' I already foresee that you will not be convinced as well.
The only reason they used bendies during Airshow is because SMRT is better than SBST for chartering...
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DD have more seating capacity, it would serve well for premium svc and those svc that do not allow standing pax.
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Lol in the first place who is bullshiting who?I dun say SMRT should ditch bendies what and perhaps you should revert this to 1000U,sbst275,2601D or vicamour and see what they reply u k?
My only reply is that the "ideal fleet" will never happen.
I think you also understand that a bendy/rigid/DD fleet will go no where.
For that reason, bendies should be ditched.
Not a far stretch of imagination.
Let's see what the new guy called "head of bus division" recently appointed will do.
I look forward to sweeping changes from the LG.
And forget about me replying these people directly.
1. They never attempt to understand where my position is from.
2. They do not answer my questions.
Why should I bother?
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Funny thing I become a victim
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Funny thing I become a victim
Lol, not referring to you though. Sorry.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
My only reply is that the "ideal fleet" will never happen.
I think you also understand that a bendy/rigid/DD fleet will go no where.
For that reason, bendies should be ditched.
Not a far stretch of imagination.
Let's see what the new guy called "head of bus division" recently appointed will do.
I look forward to sweeping changes from the LG.
And forget about me replying these people directly.
1. They never attempt to understand where my position is from.
2. They do not answer my questions.
Why should I bother?
If a bendy/rigid/DD fleet doesn't go anywhere, neither will a rigid/DD fleet go anywhere
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Funny thing I become a victim
We are all victims of past policies.
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Originally posted by SBS8501U:
If a bendy/rigid/DD fleet doesn't go anywhere, neither will a rigid/DD fleet go anywhere
seriously?
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Originally posted by SBS8501U:
If a bendy/rigid/DD fleet doesn't go anywhere, neither will a rigid/DD fleet go anywhere
are you really serious? then SBST (or even SBS) would have collapsed ages ago?
DDs are much more reasonable for Singapore after considering the various constraints we have. SMRT isn't your fantasy bus company....
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Originally posted by TIB868X:
are you really serious? then SBST (or even SBS) would have collapsed ages ago?
DDs are much more reasonable for Singapore after considering the various constraints we have. SMRT isn't your fantasy bus company....
you should know who's behind SMRT and who's behind SBST
have a feeling SBS had better foresight
but yeah SBS brought in bendies a bit too late which was later sold
i could imagine how much more chaos with DDs in SMRT, it is like SBS bringing in bendies
3 DD = 2 Bendies in terms of space
2 960s, 4 190s plus 1 180; total 6 buses (107.4m)
(72m)
however the bendies are 17.92m ...
hmm what's LTA doing?
Bt Panjang Problem
180 has bendies but loop at BPJ? BNL Int has little space
(11 bendies)
A1: 75, 171, 176, 177, 184, 187, 190, 700 & 700A, 920, 922, 960, 963, 970, 975
4/8
10/15
2 feeders, 13 trunk svc