SBS Transit King Long single deck demonstrator
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Originally posted by TIB770T:
You should be sent to China or some other 3rd world country to learn to be appreciative of what you have here. Singapore won't be turned into 3rd world countries even without your freaking Citaros.
China and some 3rd world country should get Citaros to turn first world!!! -
Originally posted by SBS7484P:
Why does every fucking discussion have to turn into a fight?
Anyway, the XMQ6121G pdf that someone linked looks very different from this XMQ6121G.The model in the PDF is the exact model that Arriva Malta purchased. That is the European market model with all the bells and whistles - ZF axles, ZF/Voith gearbox and it comes with airbag suspension which is probably an industry standard in the EU by now.
This one here is probably the Asian domestic market model - the rear is very different and since Asia does not come with air suspension requirements, this probably cheaps out with leaf springs instead.
At the end of the day I highly doubt that this will be the final model that is purchased. The air suspension ones ride fine, but we're going to take a step all the way back to UD and Hino days if SBST were to order this one.
Additionally, I don't see the issue with MIC buses. Have you guys taken a ride in them before?
Sure, they make crap like those purple/blue coloured Golden Dragon midi-coaches.
Then again I don't see how Japanese buses are better than these actually. The suspension is crap (Japanese buses still using leaf springs), the engines are noisy and weak (sounds very Japanese, doesn't it?) and the gearbox grinds gears.I challenge you to take a ride on the ones that conform to EU specifications.
Those with 10 wheel nuts (10 EU arrangement, not the American one; check out Wikipedia or go observe it yourself if you don't know the difference), air-suspension and integrated AC instead of a roof-mounted pod.
One does not simply make a sweeping statement that all MIC buses are bad, especially when you consider there are King Long coaches in Singapore that have Denso A/C units, Italian FAINSA leather seating, a 330+ HP Cummins engine which sounds absolutely smooth even at the rear and a ZF 6-speed manual box.
And yes, those coaches have self-levelling air suspension as well.
If SBS buy King Long it will same as Sentosa very crappy confirmed not Europe model!! -
Originally posted by SMB228X:
If SBS buy King Long it will same as Sentosa very crappy confirmed not Europe model!!Originally posted by SBS666E:
China and some 3rd world country should get Citaros to turn first world!!!
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May I Check when were be the king long be on the road. This year or next year any idea.
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Originally posted by SBS7484P:
Why does every fucking discussion have to turn into a fight?
Anyway, the XMQ6121G pdf that someone linked looks very different from this XMQ6121G.The model in the PDF is the exact model that Arriva Malta purchased. That is the European market model with all the bells and whistles - ZF axles, ZF/Voith gearbox and it comes with airbag suspension which is probably an industry standard in the EU by now.
This one here is probably the Asian domestic market model - the rear is very different and since Asia does not come with air suspension requirements, this probably cheaps out with leaf springs instead.
At the end of the day I highly doubt that this will be the final model that is purchased. The air suspension ones ride fine, but we're going to take a step all the way back to UD and Hino days if SBST were to order this one.
Additionally, I don't see the issue with MIC buses. Have you guys taken a ride in them before?
Sure, they make crap like those purple/blue coloured Golden Dragon midi-coaches.
Then again I don't see how Japanese buses are better than these actually. The suspension is crap (Japanese buses still using leaf springs), the engines are noisy and weak (sounds very Japanese, doesn't it?) and the gearbox grinds gears.I challenge you to take a ride on the ones that conform to EU specifications.
Those with 10 wheel nuts (10 EU arrangement, not the American one; check out Wikipedia or go observe it yourself if you don't know the difference), air-suspension and integrated AC instead of a roof-mounted pod.
One does not simply make a sweeping statement that all MIC buses are bad, especially when you consider there are King Long coaches in Singapore that have Denso A/C units, Italian FAINSA leather seating, a 330+ HP Cummins engine which sounds absolutely smooth even at the rear and a ZF 6-speed manual box.
And yes, those coaches have self-levelling air suspension as well.A leaf sprung suspension would not be possible on a low entry/floor bus due to the space required to house the parabolic springs. The bare minimum would be a single step. Of course, do highlight any examples if u find any, as it's a breakthrough for disabled access in many parts of the world if a low entry/floor bus could be developed with just leaf springs.
Click and expand the image in the first page of this thread. It's very clearly shown in the photo that the axles are by ZF, and thus air suspended.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
A leaf sprung suspension would not be possible on a low entry/floor bus due to the space required to house the parabolic springs. The bare minimum would be a single step. Of course, do highlight any examples if u find any, as it's a breakthrough for disabled access in many parts of the world if a low entry/floor bus could be developed with just leaf springs.
Click and expand the image in the first page of this thread. It's very clearly shown in the photo that the axles are by ZF, and thus air suspended.
Ah, I wasn't looking too much into that. Sorry for the cockup, but it still looks different compared to the pdf that was linked earlier in the thread. But if it were to be air suspended; there should be an option for a raiser, no? Given that King Long's air-sus units do have self-levelling and kneeling functions, there should be a raiser somewhere in there.
The pdf showed the exact same units that Arriva Malta are currently using. This local version is highly unlikely to be just a facelift; since most Asian KLQ's are the only ones to have an array of vents at the rear.
EU market KLQ's look very... Euro, hence the lack of grills.
The frontal fascia contains subtle differences as well. -
Originally posted by SBS7484P:
Ah, I wasn't looking too much into that. Sorry for the cockup, but it still looks different compared to the pdf that was linked earlier in the thread. But if it were to be air suspended; there should be an option for a raiser, no? Given that King Long's air-sus units do have self-levelling and kneeling functions, there should be a raiser somewhere in there.
The pdf showed the exact same units that Arriva Malta are currently using. This local version is highly unlikely to be just a facelift; since most Asian KLQ's are the only ones to have an array of vents at the rear.
EU market KLQ's look very... Euro, hence the lack of grills.
The frontal fascia contains subtle differences as well.The raiser function depends very much on the type of controls installed to control air within the suspension air bellows, a more advanced Electronic Controlled Air Suspension (ECAS) will allow a large range of features such as kneeling, ride height adjustments, etc. Otherwise, they could also fallback to a simple version like the O405 that has no controls, just a valve that ensures the bellows have enough air in them. That's right, if there was a raiser they should have used it. But since no one seen the dashboard yet, this will probably remain an unknown till the bus is in service.
As for the pdf, it will definately look different as it's unlikely this unit completely follows the euro spec. The Malta units are actually XMQ6127G, although the front looks the same. There are only very few XMQ6121G in the world that uses the 6127G front, of the two i know, this is one, the other is the white hybrid.
There is also a number of rather interesting things with this unit if u look very carefully. The engine area is extremely large and as u have mentioned needs vents at the rear, and even eats into the passenger area just like the double decks do. The only other 6121G example i could find was the taiwanese ones, but those have the airconditiong mounted there. The sides have a number of panels that could be opened, unlike most 6121/6127G elsewhere that does not have this feature. Again, only the white hybrid has them. So what could all this space be used for?
Perhaps this is not just a diesel bus but the 6121G diesel-eletric hybrid that sbst had agreed to trial a year or two ago. And the spaces are all for batteries. We'll know soon enough...
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Any news about this bus? When it will be on service?
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
The raiser function depends very much on the type of controls installed to control air within the suspension air bellows, a more advanced Electronic Controlled Air Suspension (ECAS) will allow a large range of features such as kneeling, ride height adjustments, etc. Otherwise, they could also fallback to a simple version like the O405 that has no controls, just a valve that ensures the bellows have enough air in them. That's right, if there was a raiser they should have used it. But since no one seen the dashboard yet, this will probably remain an unknown till the bus is in service.
As for the pdf, it will definately look different as it's unlikely this unit completely follows the euro spec. The Malta units are actually XMQ6127G, although the front looks the same. There are only very few XMQ6121G in the world that uses the 6127G front, of the two i know, this is one, the other is the white hybrid.
There is also a number of rather interesting things with this unit if u look very carefully. The engine area is extremely large and as u have mentioned needs vents at the rear, and even eats into the passenger area just like the double decks do. The only other 6121G example i could find was the taiwanese ones, but those have the airconditiong mounted there. The sides have a number of panels that could be opened, unlike most 6121/6127G elsewhere that does not have this feature. Again, only the white hybrid has them. So what could all this space be used for?
Perhaps this is not just a diesel bus but the 6121G diesel-eletric hybrid that sbst had agreed to trial a year or two ago. And the spaces are all for batteries. We'll know soon enough...
It occurs to me this particular unit SBST is testing uses AdBlue which means its a fully diesel engine.
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Unless they decided to change the air-conditioning, then this is not the hybrid King Long.
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Originally posted by TIB868X:
It occurs to me this particular unit SBST is testing uses AdBlue which means its a fully diesel engine.
Being a hybrid would not produce any cleaner emissions per liter of fuel used, the engine is still the same engine with the same emissions rating. The savings come from lesser fuel used due to regenerative braking and other optimisations. SMB137A does also come with an Adblue tank and requires it to meet Euro IV emissions standards.
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Originally posted by Superbus:
Unless they decided to change the air-conditioning, then this is not the hybrid King Long.
It's not the white hybrid king long used for demonstration purposes, but another completely new unit.
Edit: Something interesting though, apparently they did decide to change the aircon to a denso unit on the original demonstrator. It was seen with denso aircon in china sometime back.
Click to show image:
Image from HKBF user �山居士 @ http://www.hkbf.org/t389841.htm
Regardless, its not this white demonstrator. But a brand new unit just for sbst.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Being a hybrid would not produce any cleaner emissions per liter of fuel used, the engine is still the same engine with the same emissions rating. The savings come from lesser fuel used due to regenerative braking and other optimisations. SMB137A does also come with an Adblue tank and requires it to meet Euro IV emissions standards.
Hmm thanks for the info.... the bus was also rather quiet, didn't roar as loud as stereotypical Chinese buses.. If that indicates anything....
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Remember the time when SMRT bought in ZhongTong and some rumours that there's also KingLong? Well, this was the picture of KingLong XMQ6121(happen to be the same veh. model as the new KingLong for SBSTransit(Not RD6066L).
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SBS Transit must get King Long to build more Citaros!!!
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Originally posted by SMB66X:
Remember the time when SMRT bought in ZhongTong and some rumours that there's also KingLong? Well, this was the picture of KingLong XMQ6121(happen to be the same veh. model as the new KingLong for SBSTransit(Not RD6066L).
Nissan Diesel infront!
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YUCKS NO LOUSY CHINA BUSES PLEASE!!!!
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Originally posted by Gus.chong e:
YUCKS NO LOUSY CHINA BUSES PLEASE!!!!
YES LATER THEY BURN DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!
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CHINA BUSES ARE NOT SAFE AND UGLY LOOKING!!! SBST MUST REJECT THIS DEMO!!!
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Originally posted by SBS6134J:
CHINA BUSES ARE NOT SAFE AND UGLY LOOKING!!! SBST MUST REJECT THIS DEMO!!!
BIS MUST EMAIL TAMMY TAN AND CEO!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by MMMM133713371337:
BIS MUST EMAIL TAMMY TAN AND CEO!!!!!!!
GLENC SOH ALSO!!! HE GOT THE GUY CALL LOO ALSO CAN HELP!!! -
FUCK OFF LA CLONE ACCOUNT!
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Originally posted by SBS 6078 M:
FUCK OFF LA CLONE ACCOUNT!
YOU ARE ALSO A CLONE ACCOUNT!!!!
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JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GET ON TOPIC! YOU FREAKING CLONE ACCOUNT!
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I don't understand why some people till now still discriminate China-made buses. I think its mainly biased. I believe the China bus manufacturers are eager to improve their products hence why our bus operators are still bringing in several models for trails and evaluation. With our bus operators feedback to the manufacturers, I'm sure they will look into their shortfalls and improve as I believe they are eager to do business with them. If China-made buses are so lousy, then the private bus operators here wouldn't be buying more and more of them! Bus fare increase you all complain. Why can't our bus operators give them a chance to prove their products worthiness, increase competition among manufacturers and hopefully bring costs down? Already the Euro emission standards are cutting off some bus manufacturers and hence less competition when buying new buses. This was one reason back-then why SBST got to buy 1100 Scania KUB buses to replace their retiring buses. Aren't we using lots of mic products nowadays? clothes, household & electrical appliances, building materials, solar panels, etc?