LTA's Bus Service Enhancement Programme (BSEP)
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Oh, actually even SBST is losing money on buses also.
Not surprising at all.
Our bus fares and even advertising added, simply fails to cover costs.
The main difference is that CDG is more successful than SMRT Group in overseas venture. That allows them to cross-subsidise more successfully.
Now I think train also less profitable for SMRT with more rigorous maintenance and asset renewals.
I think SMRT is running into deep shit very soon.
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but there are still many ppl who complain that our bus fares is high...... but at least SBST with a bigger fleet and more money losing routes lose less money than SMRT...
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
and until now, there isnt any BSEP bus for Sv854/857?????? look at every bus from Yishun during AM Peak.. all are full to the door.....
yes there will be short trip coming soontrust me
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Originally posted by No_10_Tomas:
yes there will be short trip coming soontrust me
now the trend is for SMRT to introduce short trips... while SBST have been doing for so long.....
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SBS Transit have more experience in bus business.If I`m not wrong,SBS Transit have got 40 years of experience since 1973. Meanwhile SMRT have got 9 years of bus business since. Look at the difference.
Both operators are losing money on their buses.I suggest that LTA should raise up the bus fare.I pity the drivers who work almost non-stop.The Public Transport Council is pressuring both operaters to meet up the standards of
I prefer Trans Island to take back the bus business from SMRT. SMRT is really lost.They really need to buck up on their bus services.Do they even realised what they`re doing.
Wake Up SMRT!!!
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Revenue
S$720.9 million SGD (2010)Operating income S$64.7 million SGD (2010)Net income S$54.3 million SGD (2010)
Revenue S$1,057.2 million SGD SGD (2010)Operating income
S$146.9 million SGD (2010)Net income S$119.9 million SGD (2010) -
Originally posted by SBS2601D:
Quite honestly, having studied SMRT's routing, I think it is not surprising that they are bochap about their buses.
Feeder services are notorious for been low on fuel efficiency. Look at the ratio of feeder against trunk for SMRT, and compare to SBST. 40% of routes from SMRT are feeder. Cost of operation will surely be adversely affected.
SMRT buses in general also run significantly higher mileages than SBST ones, probably because of the depot locations in relation to where the trunk services run. Cost of operation lagi jialat.
Worse.
Look at the buses they have purchased. Lagi cham. Expensive buses with significantly higher running costs.
And now? Want to turn SMRTB around? Hard la.
But please la, no more bendies.
Stop making the situation worse.
I think it is VERY clear that LTA is unhappy with bendies.
It is very very clear already when it was announced that subsequent depots to be built by govt. Quite unlikely bendy provisions will be encouraged at least.
SMRT is already threatening to pull out of bus operations when their license is up at 2016. I dont think that is unlikely given SMRT's current situation.
One of the main problems of SMRT is also the lack of high capacity buses. During peak hours, it has to deploy many more buses because it does not have DDs. The reason it is not buying too many bendies is of course the operation cost.
SMRT has some of the most crowded towns in Singapore - Woodlands, Yishun, CCK, Bukit Batok - but it has hardly been able to provide quality services to people. If you see the buses, they are super crowded yet SMRT is bleeding losses. Why? Because loading is mostly uni-directional and the other way round buses are empty.
SMRT should have long back got DDs seeing SBST's success for sv 106, 178, 187, 188, 189, 190, 851, 854, 856, 857, 859, 962, 963, 964, 969 at least instead of just going on adding buses. This would have definitely increased their profitability. Better that SBST takes over all the SMRT services as well.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
One of the main problems of SMRT is also the lack of high capacity buses. During peak hours, it has to deploy many more buses because it does not have DDs. The reason it is not buying too many bendies is of course the operation cost.
SMRT has some of the most crowded towns in Singapore - Woodlands, Yishun, CCK, Bukit Batok - but it has hardly been able to provide quality services to people. If you see the buses, they are super crowded yet SMRT is bleeding losses. Why? Because loading is mostly uni-directional and the other way round buses are empty.
SMRT should have long back got DDs seeing SBST's success for sv 106, 178, 187, 188, 189, 190, 851, 854, 856, 857, 859, 962, 963, 964, 969 at least instead of just going on adding buses. This would have definitely increased their profitability. Better that SBST takes over all the SMRT services as well.
I would say 855 and 965 would need bendies as well.
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Originally posted by SBS7557R:
I would say 855 and 965 would need bendies as well.
Yes they would.. but will they get?? No chance because there is a scarse of bendies.. SMRT has hardly bought any bendies; only 30 which are also 1 to 1 replacement. Look at SBST so many spare WEGs. Every month you see bus services getting more SD slots converted to DD. Every month we are witnessing services that never had DDs getting them like 45, 52, 90, 94, 109, 243G, 293 to name a few.
SMRT needs high capacity buses to meet the requirement on many of its services and improve efficiency. If you do not have high capacity buses, you put 2 buses and that means you add BC cost, fuel cost, monitoring costs, maintenance costs for the extra buses. Go get more bendies, and if that is not possible, go invest in building your infrastructure to get in DDs. DDs should actually be the preferred way forward for SMRT.
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Originally posted by SBS 6238T:
SBS Transit have more experience in bus business.If I`m not wrong,SBS Transit have got 40 years of experience since 1973. Meanwhile SMRT have got 9 years of bus business since. Look at the difference.
Both operators are losing money on their buses.I suggest that LTA should raise up the bus fare.I pity the drivers who work almost non-stop.The Public Transport Council is pressuring both operaters to meet up the standards of
I prefer Trans Island to take back the bus business from SMRT. SMRT is really lost.They really need to buck up on their bus services.Do they even realised what they`re doing.
Wake Up SMRT!!!
I am very very sure that you haven't tried earning money.
When you stop using your folk's money, let's see if you want bus fares to go up.
You prefer TIBS, but did it ever ever occur to you that TIBS was equally screwed up? What common sense would tell you to order 7 sides of small portions for cai fan, and all exotic food? You know how expensive that would be?
The only reason why TIBS did not appear as bad was because the buses were new....and the population in general wasn't as high.
That said, why is SMRT still dragging its feet on DDs?
It might very very well be due to some notion that it will exit bus operations very soon.
We'll see!
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My point is that the current and past bus system is unsustainable for both PTOs.
It is for this reason that LTA, if you notice, is gradually taking control of many aspects of bus operations, starting with route planning, and now depot construction.
BSEP is very likely to be an experiment, as much as a practical short-term solution, by LTA to gain an even greater foothold in bus ops and further leverage on PTOs, to twist their arms, so to speak.
You know what I think will be the next step?
LTA buys buses, to be leased to PTOs.
Like the recent case with Transport for London, where they purchased 600 DDs to be leased on tender basis to bus operators.
Mark my words!
LTA has been dropping a lot of hints on this and have made no secret about studying competitive tendering as in the Scandinavian countries and London.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Yes they would.. but will they get?? No chance because there is a scarse of bendies.. SMRT has hardly bought any bendies; only 30 which are also 1 to 1 replacement. Look at SBST so many spare WEGs. Every month you see bus services getting more SD slots converted to DD. Every month we are witnessing services that never had DDs getting them like 45, 52, 90, 94, 109, 243G, 293 to name a few.
SMRT needs high capacity buses to meet the requirement on many of its services and improve efficiency. If you do not have high capacity buses, you put 2 buses and that means you add BC cost, fuel cost, monitoring costs, maintenance costs for the extra buses. Go get more bendies, and if that is not possible, go invest in building your infrastructure to get in DDs. DDs should actually be the preferred way forward for SMRT.
For SMRT, if 4.4M DD has height restriction, why not consider US/UK/HK's 4.2 or 4.3M DD? If 1 DD bring in to trial WLDEP and WRI svcs, probably it might pass some of the tests... So far, worldwide popular Alexander Dennis is capable of doing low height DDs...
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Originally posted by TIB1234T:
For SMRT, if 4.4M DD has height restriction, why not consider US/UK/HK's 4.2 or 4.3M DD? If 1 DD bring in to trial WLDEP and WRI svcs, probably it might pass some of the tests... So far, worldwide popular Alexander Dennis is capable of doing low height DDs...
You mean the new generation E500?Think its around 4.3m right?
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
You mean the new generation E500?Think its around 4.3m right?
Yah, since currently they only provide the newest gen in production... And there are some 4.2M, which is lower than 4.3M old gen E500 in some countries...
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Originally posted by TIB1234T:
Yah, since currently they only provide the newest gen in production... And there are some 4.2M, which is lower than 4.3M old gen E500 in some countries...
will they buy? now they operate SD Man bus already incurred so much losses.... so if they buying those more expensive DD/Bendy, then their loss even higher?
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And that is why SMRT/TIBS is "better" than SBST to many peeps here. "Better" looking buses.
There are those who also keep clamouring for Volgren bodies, and saying things like "Gemilang" is boring.
Like duh!
You guys have any idea how much cheaper Gemilang is? Even the chassis-makers themselves prefer partnering Gemilang simply because they can lower the price by >20%! Much better for marketing purposes.
Yet when money starts to run short and problems start coming up, the same people accuse SMRT of being bochup and falling short on expectations.
Irony much??
Anyway, business is more than just arms-length deals.
Look at how SBST keeps purchasing Volvo products.
Why?
Because they have a good working relationship. SBST and Volvo have a very good mutual relationship. Volvo learns through SBST what bus companies want, and in return for that, Volvo gives SBST good deals. Both are in fact willing to give each other compromises so that they can carry on working together. It is not far to imagine that SBST and Volvo reps often sit together and listen to each other's concerns.
Can you imagine that happening between ADL and SBST for example? Very unlikely. The analogy is like you trying to enter a clique. Is that easy?
You want SMRT to buy ADL products? Where's the support anyway? You mean bus is like exotic product you buy off Amazon because you happen to like it and it suits you in one aspect, just one? Spoil already no need repair?
It is very irritating to see things like SBST/SMRT should do this should do that. Should buy this product that product. Oh nonono.....that isn't how things are purchased at all. Product purchases are more than just mere purchases, they are in fact procurement strategies that can be seen as signals. Think power play if you may.
You seriously think these people in the PTOs and LTA are stupid? I think it pays to look deeper into these issues before saying such shallow statements!
As for those who continually think sharing pictures of "new products yet seen" and such is fine, think again.
I have already highlighted how businesses can work and it should be hint enough that trials can more than meet the eye.
Especially in so far as competition in the business is concerned.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
My point is that the current and past bus system is unsustainable for both PTOs.
It is for this reason that LTA, if you notice, is gradually taking control of many aspects of bus operations, starting with route planning, and now depot construction.
BSEP is very likely to be an experiment, as much as a practical short-term solution, by LTA to gain an even greater foothold in bus ops and further leverage on PTOs, to twist their arms, so to speak.
You know what I think will be the next step?
LTA buys buses, to be leased to PTOs.
Like the recent case with Transport for London, where they purchased 600 DDs to be leased on tender basis to bus operators.
Mark my words!
LTA has been dropping a lot of hints on this and have made no secret about studying competitive tendering as in the Scandinavian countries and London.
I suspect the effects of switching to distance fare have caused a noticable impact on bus revenue (and profitability).
Leasing is a more viable option if LTA wants competition via bus tendering. They can start off with the BSEP fleet on hand once the free 10 years is up.
If LTA does take this step, SBS Transit and SMRT Buses would have "helped" them a lot in this regard by standardising their new purchases (i.e. by limiting to the current 3 bus models).
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Imagine for 10 years or more every new public bus that enters service is the same Volgren-bodied Volvo. That is how typical state governments procure public buses for leasing.
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
it was at Page 48.... just posted few weeks back..
Noted. I only get to see those posts after you told me...I seldomly visited here.
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Originally posted by Gus.chong:
Noted. I only get to see those posts after you told me...I seldomly visited here.
me too, i seldom post here
but once i post, the info will be 100% accurate, trust me
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Yes they would.. but will they get?? No chance because there is a scarse of bendies.. SMRT has hardly bought any bendies; only 30 which are also 1 to 1 replacement. Look at SBST so many spare WEGs. Every month you see bus services getting more SD slots converted to DD. Every month we are witnessing services that never had DDs getting them like 45, 52, 90, 94, 109, 243G, 293 to name a few.
SMRT needs high capacity buses to meet the requirement on many of its services and improve efficiency. If you do not have high capacity buses, you put 2 buses and that means you add BC cost, fuel cost, monitoring costs, maintenance costs for the extra buses. Go get more bendies, and if that is not possible, go invest in building your infrastructure to get in DDs. DDs should actually be the preferred way forward for SMRT.
why does 293 need dd anyway? just needs 293A. thats all.
If 293 needs dds then i would say 33,83,101,113 need dds as well
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
I am very very sure that you haven't tried earning money.
When you stop using your folk's money, let's see if you want bus fares to go up.
You prefer TIBS, but did it ever ever occur to you that TIBS was equally screwed up? What common sense would tell you to order 7 sides of small portions for cai fan, and all exotic food? You know how expensive that would be?
The only reason why TIBS did not appear as bad was because the buses were new....and the population in general wasn't as high.
That said, why is SMRT still dragging its feet on DDs?
It might very very well be due to some notion that it will exit bus operations very soon.
We'll see!
Because 1/2 or even 3/4 of the depots aren't DD friendly yet? And would you spend your $$ to rebuild another or wait for LTA to complete Wenya depot, and then start rebuilding?
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Originally posted by SBS 6238T:
SBS Transit have more experience in bus business.If I`m not wrong,SBS Transit have got 40 years of experience since 1973. Meanwhile SMRT have got 9 years of bus business since. Look at the difference.
Both operators are losing money on their buses.I suggest that LTA should raise up the bus fare.I pity the drivers who work almost non-stop.The Public Transport Council is pressuring both operaters to meet up the standards of
I prefer Trans Island to take back the bus business from SMRT. SMRT is really lost.They really need to buck up on their bus services.Do they even realised what they`re doing.
Wake Up SMRT!!!
Actually the bus fare quite cheap already..for Singapore's type of buses...Less than $2 for something that's cui, lousy, smelly...and it's applying to both the operators. Go compare KMB and both the operators in Singapore..you'll know it's the correct price..
The fare(Sg ones) is only too cheap for old buses like VO3X, Mercz OAC, UDs and some Volvo MK4s.
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Originally posted by sbst191:
why does 293 need dd anyway? just needs 293A. thats all.
If 293 needs dds then i would say 33,83,101,113 need dds as well
293A from where to where?
If you see the queue at Tampines Interchange in evening peak on both loops, you will know why SBST increased the number of buses from 12 to 14 and also added 2 DDs. But the loading is uni-directional but don't all or most feeder services have uni-directional loading.
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Originally posted by sbst191:
why does 293 need dd anyway? just needs 293A. thats all.
If 293 needs dds then i would say 33,83,101,113 need dds as well
101 can get 2 split shift DDs.33 can get DDs but cannot because of Dunearn Road area.
83, 113 - definitely not needed. Loading doesn't justify.
In the routes you outlined I would put the loading as 293 > 101 > 33 > 83 > 113.