LTA's Bus Service Enhancement Programme (BSEP)
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
It takes only 5-10 mins from Sengkang to Tampines, is it??? And why are you even comparing it to 161 and 168 both that are full fleet DDs??
Have you tried standing in a crowded 27 Citaro all the way on TPE to Tampines or the other way around? I would never take a 27 to Tampines, rather prefer to drive down. There are many who do not opt for 27 in the first place because they dont want their balls to be pressed against someone elses!!
Agree, standing on 161, 168 or 858 is better than standing on 27 despite the longer distance.
27 is usually crowded to the door. On a KUB, when the driver brakes hard you will see people falling onto you, while boarding a Citaro is like squeezing into a box of sardines. I think B10M is really the most suited bus for 27, didn't use to have that much of a problem in the past.
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Originally posted by SBS 7603R:
Sv 972 will roll out around Dec is it?
Possible, 968/118 also possible, I'm not too sure
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Originally posted by SBS9C:
Agree, standing on 161, 168 or 858 is better than standing on 27 despite the longer distance.
27 is usually crowded to the door. On a KUB, when the driver brakes hard you will see people falling onto you, while boarding a Citaro is like squeezing into a box of sardines. I think B10M is really the most suited bus for 27, didn't use to have that much of a problem in the past.
With B10M, seating space is more, but standing is again an issue - so almost can take same # of pax like a crowded KUB. I would really think LTA has done a great job when it relieves the load on some of the CGA services that are so packed.
I know so many people will not take 27 for its reputation of being crowded inspite of the frequency. 161, 168 even if you have to stand it is after 82 pax have a seat - that means normally during peak only 8-10 pax would be standing - which not ideal, but still comfortable. 27 only 30-34 pax can sit and rest 35 pax squeeze into the aisle. Pathetic.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
With B10M, seating space is more, but standing is again an issue - so almost can take same # of pax like a crowded KUB. I would really think LTA has done a great job when it relieves the load on some of the CGA services that are so packed.
I know so many people will not take 27 for its reputation of being crowded inspite of the frequency. 161, 168 even if you have to stand it is after 82 pax have a seat - that means normally during peak only 8-10 pax would be standing - which not ideal, but still comfortable. 27 only 30-34 pax can sit and rest 35 pax squeeze into the aisle. Pathetic.
But more seating warrants more safety.
The KUBs have horrid suspension, which means that rough turns are common. Together with the BC's infamous reckless steering, the KUB's steps and the tall grab poles makes the ride simply disastrous.
Same goes for the Citaros. The narrow and twisting aisle often trips standing pax. And the BC likes to "bully" the Citaros too. Stepping on the accelerator to full thrust and then suddenly jerk into the bus bay. Damn!
A few months ago I took a crowded B10M on 27, none of these happened.
I hope LTA and SBST can look into this service. You have a bus that comes after a half hour and three buses following it, near empty. 27 is still popular despite the convenience of driving, thanks to its fast route and well-planned transfers. CGA workers rely on it too. Due to its, on average, frequent frequency, people choose 27 > 34 when travelling to Tampines.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
But more seating warrants more safety.
The KUBs have horrid suspension, which means that rough turns are common. Together with the BC's infamous reckless steering, the KUB's steps and the tall grab poles makes the ride simply disastrous.
Same goes for the Citaros. The narrow and twisting aisle often trips standing pax. And the BC likes to "bully" the Citaros too. Stepping on the accelerator to full thrust and then suddenly jerk into the bus bay. Damn!
A few months ago I took a crowded B10M on 27, none of these happened.
I hope LTA and SBST can look into this service. You have a bus that comes after a half hour and three buses following it, near empty. 27 is still popular despite the convenience of driving, thanks to its fast route and well-planned transfers. CGA workers rely on it too. Due to its, on average, frequent frequency, people choose 27 > 34 when travelling to Tampines.
27 is a WAB service and SBST's CGA bound services use almost only WAB buses and rarely B10Ms.
Given this what you have is KUBs and Citaros. Both are not suitable because of the TPE speed, breaking and over-crowding.
What is left is DDs. Hence, to make the journey comfortable, SBST/LTA need to deploy DDs on 27 from Hougang to Tampines Ave 4 (Century Square) and can start 27E to CGA from Hougang that will only stop at important stops.
This will ensure fast commute time to CGA from HG/SGK and at the same time the main loading that comes from Tampines Ave 4, 7 and 10 can take 27's DDs.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
But more seating warrants more safety.
The KUBs have horrid suspension, which means that rough turns are common. Together with the BC's infamous reckless steering, the KUB's steps and the tall grab poles makes the ride simply disastrous.
Same goes for the Citaros. The narrow and twisting aisle often trips standing pax. And the BC likes to "bully" the Citaros too. Stepping on the accelerator to full thrust and then suddenly jerk into the bus bay. Damn!
A few months ago I took a crowded B10M on 27, none of these happened.
I hope LTA and SBST can look into this service. You have a bus that comes after a half hour and three buses following it, near empty. 27 is still popular despite the convenience of driving, thanks to its fast route and well-planned transfers. CGA workers rely on it too. Due to its, on average, frequent frequency, people choose 27 > 34 when travelling to Tampines.
People from CGA choose 27 or 34 depending on which one takes them closer to their destination in Tampines. If I live on Tampines Ave 2, I would not take a 27 but would rather wait for a 34.
But I agree, if it is stops like Tampines Interchange or Bef TPE, I would consider taking a 27 than 34.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
27 is a WAB service and SBST's CGA bound services use almost only WAB buses and rarely B10Ms.
Given this what you have is KUBs and Citaros. Both are not suitable because of the TPE speed, breaking and over-crowding.
What is left is DDs. Hence, to make the journey comfortable, SBST/LTA need to deploy DDs on 27 from Hougang to Tampines Ave 4 (Century Square) and can start 27E to CGA from Hougang that will only stop at important stops.
This will ensure fast commute time to CGA from HG/SGK and at the same time the main loading that comes from Tampines Ave 4, 7 and 10 can take 27's DDs.
CGA's infrastructure is to blame too.
Big problem is height restrictions, so they shouldn't have used the basement. Or at least construct the basement higher. They can also have constructed an open top ground terminal, or on a raised level. This would allow DDs to ply on CGA routes.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
CGA's infrastructure is to blame too.
Big problem is height restrictions, so they shouldn't have used the basement. Or at least construct the basement higher. They can also have constructed an open top ground terminal, or on a raised level. This would allow DDs to ply on CGA routes.
Yes, definitely CGA infra is to be blamed. -
The waiting time for sv 42 is so long. Why LTA is not giving it a Citaro? Even if the loading is not high, it is better than services like 120.
I observed a lot of people wait at the bus stop outside Kembangan MRT for 5 mins and then prefer to walk home as a bus can take anywhere between 15-20 mins to come.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
The waiting time for sv 42 is so long. Why LTA is not giving it a Citaro? Even if the loading is not high, it is better than services like 120.
I observed a lot of people wait at the bus stop outside Kembangan MRT for 5 mins and then prefer to walk home as a bus can take anywhere between 15-20 mins to come.
Becoz most Kembangan residents own a car and those who don't either plan their journey or seldom go out.
Also 42 can't have too many buses at its Kembangan stop. That's why it will be good for it to extend to Bedok or Eunos int.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
The waiting time for sv 42 is so long. Why LTA is not giving it a Citaro? Even if the loading is not high, it is better than services like 120.
I observed a lot of people wait at the bus stop outside Kembangan MRT for 5 mins and then prefer to walk home as a bus can take anywhere between 15-20 mins to come.
because there got alot of rich people~
but got pri sch kids studying at opera estate pri sch take bus 42 ~ make so much noise~~
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Becoz most Kembangan residents own a car and those who don't either plan their journey or seldom go out.
Also 42 can't have too many buses at its Kembangan stop. That's why it will be good for it to extend to Bedok or Eunos int.
Should just have it extended to Eunos Interchange via Still Road. Agreed most people there have cars, but those who don't are also forced to invest in a car due to poor frequency. A lot of house maids / school students take the bus also.Again, we all know it is not high loading but the whole purpose of BSEP was to add buses and reduce waiting times. This should not apply only to high loading services.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Should just have it extended to Eunos Interchange via Still Road. Agreed most people there have cars, but those who don't are also forced to invest in a car due to poor frequency. A lot of house maids / school students take the bus also.Again, we all know it is not high loading but the whole purpose of BSEP was to add buses and reduce waiting times. This should not apply only to high loading services.
are u sure all the BSEP buses are deployed on only high loading svcs??
What about 191?? 275?? 284?? etc~
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27 is indirectly a dd svc,1 bus gone another come in less than 3 mins
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
27 is indirectly a dd svc,1 bus gone another come in less than 3 mins
But its frequency is not consistent at all!
This is the disadvantage of having more small buses than less larger buses. Sometimes I wait for a half hour and sometimes I wait as short as 20 seconds. And this is also why I have given up on iris for svc 27. By having DDs less SDs can be used and in turn the BCs would stop racing their way throughout the route. But if course, it remains impossible for now.
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
27 is indirectly a dd svc,1 bus gone another come in less than 3 mins
And that's where the biggest problem for sv 27 comes in. The buses often bunch up due to high frequency and the fact that it loops at CGA.From HCI to CGA is fine (bunching is less) but on the way back it is catastrophic at times.
I have spotted many times 5 sv 27 buses in a span of 05 mins. Some of them are buses that bunch from HCI-->CGA and come back, while others are downroutes that start from Century Square.
To SMB128B's point, when this happens, imagine there must have been a big gap before. Hence, the first bus that comes, people crowd in like sardines - same thing happens for 2nd bus, making people really irritated. The other buses go at sub-optimal loading.
This can be totally avoided if you deploy DDs at a frequency of say 05 mins. You use less fuel, less BC, less road space, give more seating space to passengers. So many advantages over deploying double the # of SDs to make it like a DD.
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Originally posted by sbst191:
are u sure all the BSEP buses are deployed on only high loading svcs??
What about 191?? 275?? 284?? etc~
284 is not same as 191 and 275 to start with.Secondly, you re-iterated my point. BSEP should not be only for high loading services and so services like 11, 42 and 84 should also get a Citaro each even if it is not high loading but to reduce commuter waiting time.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
And that's where the biggest problem for sv 27 comes in. The buses often bunch up due to high frequency and the fact that it loops at CGA.From HCI to CGA is fine (bunching is less) but on the way back it is catastrophic at times.
I have spotted many times 5 sv 27 buses in a span of 05 mins. Some of them are buses that bunch from HCI-->CGA and come back, while others are downroutes that start from Century Square.
To SMB128B's point, when this happens, imagine there must have been a big gap before. Hence, the first bus that comes, people crowd in like sardines - same thing happens for 2nd bus, making people really irritated. The other buses go at sub-optimal loading.
This can be totally avoided if you deploy DDs at a frequency of say 05 mins. You use less fuel, less BC, less road space, give more seating space to passengers. So many advantages over deploying double the # of SDs to make it like a DD.
There isn't a difference! If DDs can be used it could be used to replace some SDs for example 10 SDs for 7 DDs. The rest can deploy to other services. This saves resource and road space as you said. If u want DDs at 5 min freq you are not making any difference in the schedule.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
284 is not same as 191 and 275 to start with.Secondly, you re-iterated my point. BSEP should not be only for high loading services and so services like 11, 42 and 84 should also get a Citaro each even if it is not high loading but to reduce commuter waiting time.
Ahhhh... Now u got it.
Do you even know what does "commuter" mean? Is 84 a commuter service?
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Does 168 got BSEP add lately?
Last time saw 3355H and 3336M, then i remember got 6380P with 3336M, then today got 3320H and 3353M- back to back.
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
Does 168 got BSEP add lately?
Last time saw 3355H and 3336M, then i remember got 6380P with 3336M, then today got 3320H and 3353M- back to back.
168 has 2 BSEP buses as i said before, 1 perm, 1 random from any of the 2 depots... If BN can't issue out, then AM will issue 2 on it...
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
There isn't a difference! If DDs can be used it could be used to replace some SDs for example 10 SDs for 7 DDs. The rest can deploy to other services. This saves resource and road space as you said. If u want DDs at 5 min freq you are not making any difference in the schedule.
As per carbikebus if SDs comes at 03 min interval, then DDs are justified at 5 min interval, using exactly your logic. So stop contradicting every statement.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
As per carbikebus if SDs comes at 03 min interval, then DDs are justified at 5 min interval, using exactly your logic. So stop contradicting every statement.Sorry if I didnt make it clear, but average freq for 27 during peak is >5 mins. Not 3 mins.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
But more seating warrants more safety.
The KUBs have horrid suspension, which means that rough turns are common. Together with the BC's infamous reckless steering, the KUB's steps and the tall grab poles makes the ride simply disastrous.
Same goes for the Citaros. The narrow and twisting aisle often trips standing pax. And the BC likes to "bully" the Citaros too. Stepping on the accelerator to full thrust and then suddenly jerk into the bus bay. Damn!
A few months ago I took a crowded B10M on 27, none of these happened.
I hope LTA and SBST can look into this service. You have a bus that comes after a half hour and three buses following it, near empty. 27 is still popular despite the convenience of driving, thanks to its fast route and well-planned transfers. CGA workers rely on it too. Due to its, on average, frequent frequency, people choose 27 > 34 when travelling to Tampines.
KUB so creepy jerky n vibration~ SBS should follow SMRT buy more Superlions~ -
Depend on where u wait during peaks,usually 27 timings trying to tally airport workers shift..Am peak towards airport from Tampines you can get as much as 6 buses in less than 7 minutes but towards Hougang during 0845-0925 only 3 buses in 9 minutes.
168 already too pampered liao,sometimes its not even full after Tampines IKEA.Extra bsep should be SD imo
190 ah?wait for another new svc run parallel from Bt Panjang to Orchard lor cant do anything much.More bendies more woes especially cbd