SBST Volvo B9TL Wrights (Part 3)
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3418K seen 43
3401,3404,3408 seen sv196
3830,3845 seen 197
3817 seen 10, replace 7671 which did 10/e on Oct15 -
3421A on 147. Debut
HG or BB?
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SBS3420C on 241 for at least 2 days.
It also has side BSEP ad
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Originally posted by SBS 3010C:
SBS3420C on 241 for at least 2 days.
It also has side BSEP ad
ya..saw it yesterday too...today i saw SBS3406U -
Originally posted by SBS 3010C:
SBS3420C on 241 for at least 2 days.
It also has side BSEP ad
SBS3419H perm 241 (fleet add).
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Registered on 15th October 2014:
SBS3853L
Registered on 16th October 2014:
SBS3852P
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Registered on 08th October 2014 (Add-on):
SBS3857B
SBS3858Z
SBS3859X
SBS3860R
SBS3861M
SBS3862K -
Registered on 17/10/2014:
SBS3854JRegistered on 18/10/2014:
SBS3855G -
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
What is interesting?
Only >BISHAN showing on the EDS?
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
With extra restriction for the low end torque it make the buses struggle to gain faster pick up..Gearbox is not an issue..Even some MK3s also can accelerate faster than any ZF MKIVs..Previously the king of pickup belongs to Scania N113CRB but after SBST restrict the low end for safety purpose its quite bad and tiring for e drivers especially full loads
Anyway, I think that the newer buses with Voith gearboxs tend to suffer from turbo lag... I've noticed that when I take a SBS Transit Citaro or Wright with Voith gearbox, as well as SMRT's MAN A24 (SMB388S), they tend to acclerate slowly before the turbo kicks in and the bus gains pickup... It is different when you take a ZF Wright or a MAN A22.
Whenever I take a ZF Wright or a MAN A22, the turbo kicks in almost immediately, so the bus gains pickup quite quickly, especially when the BC presses the acclerator down hard. I'm not too sure about the Enviros though... However, I do find it interesting that the older Volvo B10M MK IVs gain pickup easily, which questions why the newer buses cannot gain pickup faster despite more horsepower. Note that SMRT's O405s and O405G work on the principal of using the turbo to pickup quickly.
I suspect the older buses do not suffer from turbo lag as much as the newer buses today (Voith Wrights and Citaros), which explains why these older buses with lesser horsepower acclerate faster than the newer buses... Not trying to sound like an expert here, but I just think turbo lag is responsible for slower new buses today.
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3401,3404,3408 appearing on sv196 very regularly
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SBS3853L
BRBP or SLBP SP, on 143 today.SBS3862K
BRBP SP, on 90 today. -
SBS3851S
BBDEP or AMDEP, on 166 today. -
Registered on 21st October 2014:
SBS3856D
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SBS3854J on 65 today...
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3860R -> BN
On 12 tdy.
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SBS3858Z on 199
SBS3859X on 182M
Both to SLBP!
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3850 seen 196
3847 seen 76
3825 seen 62
3838 also seen on 76 -
Originally posted by 23ispolo:
Anyway, I think that the newer buses with Voith gearboxs tend to suffer from turbo lag... I've noticed that when I take a SBS Transit Citaro or Wright with Voith gearbox, as well as SMRT's MAN A24 (SMB388S), they tend to acclerate slowly before the turbo kicks in and the bus gains pickup... It is different when you take a ZF Wright or a MAN A22.
Whenever I take a ZF Wright or a MAN A22, the turbo kicks in almost immediately, so the bus gains pickup quite quickly, especially when the BC presses the acclerator down hard. I'm not too sure about the Enviros though... However, I do find it interesting that the older Volvo B10M MK IVs gain pickup easily, which questions why the newer buses cannot gain pickup faster despite more horsepower. Note that SMRT's O405s and O405G work on the principal of using the turbo to pickup quickly.
I suspect the older buses do not suffer from turbo lag as much as the newer buses today (Voith Wrights and Citaros), which explains why these older buses with lesser horsepower acclerate faster than the newer buses... Not trying to sound like an expert here, but I just think turbo lag is responsible for slower new buses today.
the gearbox has no relation to 'turbo lag', although power transmission through the gearbox (through its design philosophy and implementation) can amplify 'turbo lag'.
the bigger suspect, i believe, is the engine torque curve. 'turbo lag' kicks in when the engines enter the max rev band.
Pull the D9B and D2066 torque curves off the internet and it becomes apparent why 'turbo lag' sets in. In comparison, the OM447/457 engines have a much flatter torque curve (that gives you fairly consistent torque across a very wide band).
Strictly speaking, its NOT turbo lag but engine torque mapping that gives a STEPPED rather than FLAT torquer curve prior the max torque rev band.
to quickly and briefly answer the topic matter -
ZF - during takeoff, TC (torque converter) non-lockup multiplies torque on 1st gear, which hence masks 'any 'turbo lag'. multiple lower mechanical gears (1 to 3) favour acceleration once TC lockup is achieved.
Voith - TC operation radically differs as TC is not directly involved in takeoff, but instead multiplies torque to faciltiate takeoff via closing clutch on first mechanical gear (zf gear 3 equivalent). the higher staroff gear ratio, coupled with a closing clutch amplifies 'turbo lag' as torque multiplication is consistant across the rev bands.
PS: Voiths are VERY CAPABLE of torque multiplication, to the point torque multiplication can be as high as 5x input torque during takeoff.
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3857 3858 > SLBP
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3844, 3855 seen on 197
3851 seen 10
3822 seen 25 -
Originally posted by SBS BUSES LOVER:
3857 3858 > SLBP
3858Z on 179 today, "ex-perm".
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Originally posted by chickenlittle2:
3858Z on 179 today, "ex-perm".
On 97 today...
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Originally posted by chickenlittle2:
3858Z on 179 today, "ex-perm".
You mean O405 SBS3858Z was perm 179?
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Originally posted by 23ispolo:
Anyway, I think that the newer buses with Voith gearboxs tend to suffer from turbo lag... I've noticed that when I take a SBS Transit Citaro or Wright with Voith gearbox, as well as SMRT's MAN A24 (SMB388S), they tend to acclerate slowly before the turbo kicks in and the bus gains pickup... It is different when you take a ZF Wright or a MAN A22.
Whenever I take a ZF Wright or a MAN A22, the turbo kicks in almost immediately, so the bus gains pickup quite quickly, especially when the BC presses the acclerator down hard. I'm not too sure about the Enviros though... However, I do find it interesting that the older Volvo B10M MK IVs gain pickup easily, which questions why the newer buses cannot gain pickup faster despite more horsepower. Note that SMRT's O405s and O405G work on the principal of using the turbo to pickup quickly.
I suspect the older buses do not suffer from turbo lag as much as the newer buses today (Voith Wrights and Citaros), which explains why these older buses with lesser horsepower acclerate faster than the newer buses... Not trying to sound like an expert here, but I just think turbo lag is responsible for slower new buses today.
Voith performs better on longer distances (eg. expressways), while ZF performs better with short distances. The speed of Voith is slower initially, but get faster later.