Originally posted by Sbs6750E:Why never think about the CBP ppl?
Many pax travel from Bedok Sth/TNM MRT lah dey.
Lai, 47A with DDs
Originally posted by Sbs6750E:Why never think about the CBP ppl?
A long time ago I have suggested SWT between TM and CBP, with DDs. People werent content ofc, stubborn on wanting DDs to be wasted on the rest of the route.
These foolish lobbyists sought to fulfill their selfish amusements by continuing to whine and complain, even though it is clear that any action beyond the aforementioned would simply be a waste of resources that could never be justified.
Originally posted by Sbs6750E:Many pax travel from Bedok Sth/TNM MRT lah dey.
AS I HAVE REPEATEDLY MENTIONED.
"47 is not an exclusive, but an alternative."
Haiyo. Whats with people nowadays. Smartphones getting larger, yet eyes getting smaller?
Besides, nobody (if any, an extreme few) goes up for such a short distance. Not like you dont know that too.
Originally posted by SMB128B:Thats right. 47 is not exclusive but rather an alternative. It is a good route undeniably but does not justify the use of DDs.
Bro - 47 is doing quite okay with DDs. You should see the loading during AM towards CBP and PM from CBP. The buses can easily get 80-100 pax, and many times the SD will be in "red". Of course Marine Parade area is too spoilt with too many services and they need to do some rationalization there.
16, 31, 196, 197 all doing MP - Bedok
12, 38, 47 - too many services for Bedok South to Tanah Merah.
But if you just see the load between CBP onwards there is high demand.
The service which has DDs and totally does not need it is sv 46.
They can wait until DTL3 to open, witness the loading and then deploy. Talking about excess and waste of resources, I want to highlight that the biggest waste is on feeder/intra-town services where SDs are spammed as if they cost nothing. Whether you take 911, 912, 913 or 222, 291, 293 same story. This is the biggest wastage. And this is LTA decision.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Bro - 47 is doing quite okay with DDs. You should see the loading during AM towards CBP and PM from CBP. The buses can easily get 80-100 pax, and many times the SD will be in "red". Of course Marine Parade area is too spoilt with too many services and they need to do some rationalization there.
16, 31, 196, 197 all doing MP - Bedok
12, 38, 47 - too many services for Bedok South to Tanah Merah.
But if you just see the load between CBP onwards there is high demand.
The service which has DDs and totally does not need it is sv 46.
They can wait until DTL3 to open, witness the loading and then deploy. Talking about excess and waste of resources, I want to highlight that the biggest waste is on feeder/intra-town services where SDs are spammed as if they cost nothing. Whether you take 911, 912, 913 or 222, 291, 293 same story. This is the biggest wastage. And this is LTA decision.
Which was why I suggested the use of SWT, since 47 DDs run with its top deck practically empty past TM!!! Besides, SWT being routes operated during peak also means that DDs need not be used when CBP itself also does not have demand, i.e. off peak and weekends/PH. It also ensures faster turnaround time, hence better reliability.
As for 46, oh boy I didnt even see the need for this svc, let alone it using DDs. This svc has the potential to extend further, yet LTA just stopped it in the east. No MRT stations along the way, no heavy loading sectors.
Originally posted by SMB128B:Not sure if you all are too ignorant to see that but this is how LTA actl spends its money... You think I wanna spend like this?! You think I would want to unnecessarily deploy DDs when svcs like 5 still only have like half fleet SDs?!
Cant imagine you all being on social media... Probably will misread satirical articles as actual news... Haiyo
SBS351M, imagine others like him are inside the bus industry right now.
To give an example, I know of one lobbyist who previously complained very publicly about the excess runtime of his usual bus service, but now follows "company policy" to add much more runtime to that service.
It's hard not to see how things have gone to hell these days.
Stop fighting over DDs in 46 and 47. No point. Basically, until they rationalise the Marine Parade and Tanah Merah areas, any configuration is going to be suboptimal.
After reviewing the route, it is evident that 47 generally duplicates services except for the TNM-CBP sector. Make of that what you will, but until stuff in Marine Parade and Bedok South is sorted out, no point fighting.
Originally posted by CB2883J:Stop fighting over DDs in 46 and 47. No point. Basically, until they rationalise the Marine Parade and Tanah Merah areas, any configuration is going to be suboptimal.
After reviewing the route, it is evident that 47 generally duplicates services except for the TNM-CBP sector. Make of that what you will, but until stuff in Marine Parade and Bedok South is sorted out, no point fighting.
Hi mr CB2883J, you are right. No need to fight over DDs in 46 and 47. It is very ironical that when new bus services under BSEP are introduced (as in sbs 46 and 47), the main purpose is to serve those areas with slightly much lesser bus services and to bridge some connections (such as bedok north and bedok south in sbs 46 case). Note that loading of the service is not the utmost importance consideration. Do not always go and link to DDs and loading which people always end up quarreling over. Some people observe at this timing and some people observe at other timings. There is also no right and wrong answer. Cheers. Thanks.
Yup. If you really want to talk about where deserves DDs, I would say service 12 around 4 to 5pm cannot cope on the SD slots (worse because of Citaros). Those slots should get DDs.
simply to say that SBST/LTA have ordered too much DDs for their BSEP.. while SMRT did not order enough for BSEP and for its own use.....
seriously, LTA is having problem managing the bus ops as they take on more responsibility in doing planning etc... so many things to do and yet dun think they have enough ppl with the knowledge to do it....
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr CB2883J, you are right. No need to fight over DDs in 46 and 47. It is very ironical that when new bus services under BSEP are introduced (as in sbs 46 and 47), the main purpose is to serve those areas with slightly much lesser bus services and to bridge some connections (such as bedok north and bedok south in sbs 46 case). Note that loading of the service is not the utmost importance consideration. Do not always go and link to DDs and loading which people always end up quarreling over. Some people observe at this timing and some people observe at other timings. There is also no right and wrong answer. Cheers. Thanks.
I don't agree. You can provide new connectivity with sv 46 but can do it will full fleet SD. Of course there is correlation between using DDs and loading on bus services. Who is paying for all this after all? If such routes are loss-making it is going to end up increasing more fares.
Originally posted by CB2883J:Stop fighting over DDs in 46 and 47. No point. Basically, until they rationalise the Marine Parade and Tanah Merah areas, any configuration is going to be suboptimal.
After reviewing the route, it is evident that 47 generally duplicates services except for the TNM-CBP sector. Make of that what you will, but until stuff in Marine Parade and Bedok South is sorted out, no point fighting.
I agree with you. There is need for rationalization in Marine Parade / East Coast area. Too many duplicative services, yet there are connections missing to important nodal points. I will come up with a proposal in "Route Suggestions".
Originally posted by lemon1974:simply to say that SBST/LTA have ordered too much DDs for their BSEP.. while SMRT did not order enough for BSEP and for its own use.....
seriously, LTA is having problem managing the bus ops as they take on more responsibility in doing planning etc... so many things to do and yet dun think they have enough ppl with the knowledge to do it....
Right now, LTA doesn't even have control over what buses they can buy. They are buying up any new buses and options they can get their hands on from the incumbents. They are at the mercy of what the incumbents have decided to buy...
If they were to make a purchase in their own right, there is no way they can get buses on time. They have to go through GeBiz and the process can take years.
But when they decide to put out the tender (end 2016 according to media report), the order is going to be really massive.
Originally posted by sgbuses:Right now, LTA doesn't even have control over what buses they can buy. They are buying up any new buses and options they can get their hands on from the incumbents. They are at the mercy of what the incumbents have decided to buy...
If they were to make a purchase in their own right, there is no way they can get buses on time. They have to go through GeBiz and the process can take years.
But when they decide to put out the tender (end 2016 according to media report), the order is going to be really massive.
that true... and right now ,they are paying such a high price for the A95 buses,whereby SMRT themselves are buying 25% cheaper.....
even for a tender of building bus depots, the contracts were awarded around 9 months later.. same go for the extension of bus interchanges....
and for the new concept buses, dun expect them to place order for 1000 buses in one time.. they do not need so many buses right now... the first batch of B9 going to reach 17 years in 2024... same go for the KUB... while SMRT have some bendies to go in the next 1-2 years... and what they are ordering will be to replace these bendies. dun think they will order extra right now, cos most of the routes are running with more than enough buses..
and are we expecting to pay up to S$700 000 for each concept bus??
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:I don't agree. You can provide new connectivity with sv 46 but can do it will full fleet SD. Of course there is correlation between using DDs and loading on bus services. Who is paying for all this after all? If such routes are loss-making it is going to end up increasing more fares.
Yea agreed... This fella is too absorbed in his fantasies where money falls from the sky... What logic is it when pax does not matter? So shall we also deploy full fleet DDs on 84, 882?
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:I agree with you. There is need for rationalization in Marine Parade / East Coast area. Too many duplicative services, yet there are connections missing to important nodal points. I will come up with a proposal in "Route Suggestions".
I really doubt LTA will actl do something abt it...
Coz going back to my earlier post,
To them, "economy is not a problem"...
Originally posted by lemon1974:and are we expecting to pay up to S$700 000 for each concept bus??
That depends on the bus lobbyists. Pricing is the least of their concerns.
Fortunately, the lobbyists receive no commission for doing free marketing for manufacturers. Otherwise I don't think lobbyists factions are going to limit themselves to flaming each other publicly and intensely on social media as we are seeing right now...
Originally posted by sgbuses:SBS351M, imagine others like him are inside the bus industry right now.
To give an example, I know of one lobbyist who previously complained very publicly about the excess runtime of his usual bus service, but now follows "company policy" to add much more runtime to that service.
It's hard not to see how things have gone to hell these days.
If I am inside the industry I will obv not spend the way LTA does now.
Clearly all of you have misread my post — the way LTA spends now is treating economies of scale as something invisible... Eg. Wrongful DD deployments, social welfare svcs.
But I do see truth in LTA's actions... Coz at least they are making bus ops more ex now than drag till later, for spare parts... You cannot deny that there already exists multiple models in SG, and you cant get rid of them... The only thing we can do now is to stop bringing in so many varients and actually deal with the current bunch... I myself are not up for diversity anymore (I used to) since thr release of the concept... Its basically best of both worlds, SBST and SMRT...
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:I don't agree. You can provide new connectivity with sv 46 but can do it will full fleet SD. Of course there is correlation between using DDs and loading on bus services. Who is paying for all this after all? If such routes are loss-making it is going to end up increasing more fares.
Hi mr busanalyser, yes you can continue to link DDs and loading on bus services. However note that this is not the primary aim of introducing BSEP services. They will not downsize the service to every passenger requirements and perceptions. Main aim of public transport is to provide connection even if it is loss-making. Now end up become bus routes and depots tender. Some money making bus services will definitely cover up for some loss-making bus services. This is expected to even out. Cheers. Thanks.
Originally posted by SMB128B:Yea agreed... This fella is too absorbed in his fantasies where money falls from the sky... What logic is it when pax does not matter? So shall we also deploy full fleet DDs on 84, 882?
Hi mr SMB128B, I am not absorbed in my fantasies where money falls from the sky. What I am saying that when the new BSEP services are introduced, the authorities do not take loading as main concern. Not the MAIN concern does not imply do not matter at all. It is still a concern but it is given much lesser priority in consideration. Your point of deploying full DDs on 84, 882 do not substantiate any items.
When new bus services are introduced, do not expect loading to be fantastic. Sbs 116 takes about 2 years in order for its loading to mature. Sbs 386 also takes several months for its loading to reach its current stage. Sbs 117 is still trying to find its passenger loading. Sbs 102 and 324 still have ways to improve. All I am saying is that the main reason of introducing BSEP is not about loading as top priority. Cheers. Thanks.
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr SMB128B, I am not absorbed in my fantasies where money falls from the sky. What I am saying that when the new BSEP services are introduced, the authorities do not take loading as main concern. Not the MAIN concern does not imply do not matter at all. It is still a concern but it is given much lesser priority in consideration. Your point of deploying full DDs on 84, 882 do not substantiate any items.
When new bus services are introduced, do not expect loading to be fantastic. Sbs 116 takes about 2 years in order for its loading to mature. Sbs 386 also takes several months for its loading to reach its current stage. Sbs 117 is still trying to find its passenger loading. Sbs 102 and 324 still have ways to improve. All I am saying is that the main reason of introducing BSEP is not about loading as top priority. Cheers. Thanks.
Exactly. So why deploy the DDs NOW than later? When NOW, there are svc in dire need of such DDs?
You are clearly eating your own words. Since it is a concern why dismiss it altogether and say there is no concern initially?
Originally posted by SMB128B:Exactly. So why deploy the DDs NOW than later? When NOW, there are svc in dire need of such DDs?
You are clearly eating your own words. Since it is a concern why dismiss it altogether and say there is no concern initially?
Hi mr SMB128B, I did not dismiss it altogether and say there is no concern initially. All I say is it is not the MAIN concern. Cheers. Thanks.
Ok. Aside from this fruitless debate on BSEP DDs. It seems the SMRT B9TLs are going for painting.
Originally posted by CB2883J:Ok. Aside from this fruitless debate on BSEP DDs. It seems the SMRT B9TLs are going for painting.
If these debates dont happen, SGF is better off not existing. But anyways...
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