SMRT to get DDs soon
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Originally posted by Pervertedboy:
Sorry for the erroneous statement on capacity in Double-decker versus Bendy bus. The statement was made based on the 2 news articles – which are referring to the London Routemaster. Based on the designs, the seating capacity of Singapore’s Double-decker (in this case, it’s a MAN A39) is definitely bigger than London’s (Routemaster).
Since there is a frequent issue of commuters not moving to the 2nd compartment, it would mean that the standing capacity of Bendy buses is actually more or less similar to that of Double-deckers, likewise for the wheelchair space and boarding/waiting time. It is faster to alight from Bendy buses only because they have an additional door – at the 2nd compartment.
Overall, a Double-decker has a higher capacity than a Bendy bus. Also, as there is more seating capacity, the proportion of commuters on DD getting a seat is larger, which means the comfort level of DD is higher than that of Bendy bus (although I do not know how is the standard of comfort measured). Other than the alighting time part, Double-deckers are better for commuters than Bendy buses.
On the Technical aspect, since it requires less fuel than a Bendy bus and it is cheaper to maintain, Double-deckers are also better for the operators (in this case, it’s SMRT) than Bendy buses.
When the MAN A39 makes its debut in Singapore on SMRT bus routes, I hope to (joy)ride on one of the buses, if I have the time. From the videos I viewed on Youtube showing rides on the MAN A39, it seems that the ride is smooth and the interior design of the upper deck looks sleek.
A quick primer on the advantages and disadvantages of double-decker buses:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/doubledecker-buses-to-run-again-in-sydney-20120823-24nyy.html
Sydney is not getting rid of their bendy buses anytime soon; they are still the preferred buses on frequently stopping and high turnover Metrobus routes.
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It's funny some of you compare land scarce Singapore and Australia.Look,Australia is a damm huge country and didn't have any problems with using bendy buses even during peaks and the drivers mentality there is different from our kiasu attitude road users here.If HK can use bendy do you think they won't?Think about the future populations where our dear Gahmen wanna raise to 6.9million and I would think even Lim Chu Kang area will be heavy traffic prone.Its time to educate ppl here to move upstairs even for short journey
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
It's funny some of you compare land scarce Singapore and Australia.Look,Australia is a damm huge country and didn't have any problems with using bendy buses even during peaks and the drivers mentality there is different from our kiasu attitude road users here.If HK can use bendy do you think they won't?Think about the future populations where our dear Gahmen wanna raise to 6.9million and I would think even Lim Chu Kang area will be heavy traffic prone.Its time to educate ppl here to move upstairs even for short journey
No. The city centre of Sydney is just as crowded. The tailback during morning peak period in Sydney to the bus terminal is 750 metres, bus bumper to bumper. The solution is to keep the bendy buses out of the city centre. Confine them to short-haul shuttles that loop through minor roads.
Good luck trying to educate passengers. Several campaigns later we all know what the outcome is. The other solution is to have conductors or more inspectors, but since OMO who is willing to pay for them?
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
No. The city centre of Sydney is just as crowded. The tailback during morning peak period in Sydney to the bus terminal is 750 metres, bus bumper to bumper. The solution is to keep the bendy buses out of the city centre. Confine them to short-haul shuttles that loop through minor roads.
Good luck trying to educate passengers. Several campaigns later we all know what the outcome is. The other solution is to have conductors or more inspectors, but since OMO who is willing to pay for them?
I am sorry but I defer to accept your argument. I travel often to Sydney, Perth with work, and the situation there is completely different. To start with, there is NO robust bus network. I tried taking bus to work one day and while I was studying the route map, I observed that for most routes, you need to change at the main terminal.Also, Sydney has scope to expand. It is not an island. The city is not over-crowded. People live in places like Botany and travel to work. Car is one of the popular means to travel. Buses are a very secondary mode. Everyone, almost everyone, from our department assistants to managers have a car.
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
It's funny some of you compare land scarce Singapore and Australia.Look,Australia is a damm huge country and didn't have any problems with using bendy buses even during peaks and the drivers mentality there is different from our kiasu attitude road users here.If HK can use bendy do you think they won't?Think about the future populations where our dear Gahmen wanna raise to 6.9million and I would think even Lim Chu Kang area will be heavy traffic prone.Its time to educate ppl here to move upstairs even for short journey
HK won't.
Why? As I've so repeatedly said, it's the TRAVELLING PATTERNS that matters.
In SG, distance fares and feeders makes the commuters travel such short distances none would want to move up (and risk the possibility of squishing down). It's not easy to educate people. I mean, why not you try it yourself?
And why relate bendies to the amount of space and population a country has?
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
I am sorry but I defer to accept your argument. I travel often to Sydney, Perth with work, and the situation there is completely different. To start with, there is NO robust bus network. I tried taking bus to work one day and while I was studying the route map, I observed that for most routes, you need to change at the main terminal.Also, Sydney has scope to expand. It is not an island. The city is not over-crowded. People live in places like Botany and travel to work. Car is one of the popular means to travel. Buses are a very secondary mode. Everyone, almost everyone, from our department assistants to managers have a car.
Try standing along York Street in Sydney and St. Georges Terrace in Perth during peak hour and watch how many traffic cycles buses have to go through.
In my opinon, neither does Singapore have a robust bus network (otherwise we would not be discussing about Singapore's transportation woes now). Neither is Sydney nor Perth. Actually we are not disagreeing on this point. What I am trying to say is that any city that fails to understand the different purposes of double-decker buses and bendy buses will not get the most out of what they want for their public transport system.
And yes, most Singaporeans do not have a real choice between public transport and the car. The last thing any transport planner should do is to stick to one or two stubborn "one-size-fits-all" models without considering all possible alternatives and let the poor passengers deal with the consequences (which is what is happening now). This is disappointing given how Singapore aims for efficiency in many other aspects.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
HK won't.
Why? As I've so repeatedly said, it's the TRAVELLING PATTERNS that matters.
In SG, distance fares and feeders makes the commuters travel such short distances none would want to move up (and risk the possibility of squishing down). It's not easy to educate people. I mean, why not you try it yourself?
And why relate bendies to the amount of space and population a country has?
Because its already irrelevant.Do you drive bendy,DD before?i have and i dare to say its getting stressful driving bendies on busy streets.Those SMRT BCs got no choice cause bendies inherit from TIBS
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
It's funny some of you compare land scarce Singapore and Australia.Look,Australia is a damm huge country and didn't have any problems with using bendy buses even during peaks and the drivers mentality there is different from our kiasu attitude road users here.If HK can use bendy do you think they won't?Think about the future populations where our dear Gahmen wanna raise to 6.9million and I would think even Lim Chu Kang area will be heavy traffic prone.Its time to educate ppl here to move upstairs even for short journey
I think people have already started doing so. Observed on very short routes like 225G / 225W also, lot of people go upstairs when they board the bus. I think some take it as a form of exercise/activity to climb some more steps even if it is 3-4 stops. -
Originally posted by carbikebus:
Because its already irrelevant.Do you drive bendy,DD before?i have and i dare to say its getting stressful driving bendies on busy streets.Those SMRT BCs got no choice cause bendies inherit from TIBS
Busy streets.
Are feeders servicing busy streets?
Mostly no, correct?
And if no choice, explain 388S.
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Educating people to move in, educating people to move up. Is that the real solution?
Force a person to move in and move up who is getting off 3 stops later, and the result is him having to squeeze his way out or squeeze his way down. End result? You've just blocked a bus stop and caused extra run time on your route.
You've managed to squeeze more into the bus, but at the same time added a minute into 80 other passengers' travelling time. Did that solve the problem? Why are the buses in SG so much slower than in HK, London or Sydney, even with priority lanes?
The fare system now promotes high passenger turnover rates (i.e. high change of passengers over the entire route), but is the equipment purchased capable of supporting this?
Let me put it in another way, a bendy has 1 entrance and 2 exits for 110 pax. A DD has capacity for the same 110 pax, but shares 1 entrance and exit for 55 pax, worse still at only half the width. That is called the staircase.
Effectively, once your bus is almost full, it just became worse than a private coach! 1 single width door for 55 passengers. And do you run coaches as urban buses? Absolutely not!
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Educating people to move in, educating people to move up. Is that the real solution?
Force a person to move in and move up who is getting off 3 stops later, and the result is him having to squeeze his way out or squeeze his way down. End result? You've just blocked a bus stop and caused extra run time on your route.
You've managed to squeeze more into the bus, but at the same time added a minute into 80 other passengers' travelling time. Did that solve the problem? Why are the buses in SG so much slower than in HK, London or Sydney, even with priority lanes?
The fare system now promotes high passenger turnover rates (i.e. high change of passengers over the entire route), but is the equipment purchased capable of supporting this?
Let me put it in another way, a bendy has 1 entrance and 2 exits for 110 pax. A DD has capacity for the same 110 pax, but shares 1 entrance and exit for 55 pax, worse still at only half the width. That is called the staircase.
Effectively, once your bus is almost full, it just became worse than a private coach! 1 single width door for 55 passengers. And do you run coaches as urban buses? Absolutely not!
I feel that they should just increase the no. of staircase and exit doors...
Look at the MRT system, even when LTA removed the pole at the center of 2 doors, passengers(from what I've observed) still will stand there.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Busy streets.
Are feeders servicing busy streets?
Mostly no, correct?
And if no choice, explain 388S.
Unless they start ordering another 150 units..
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End of the day, there's no A is better than B or vice versa. Both has its pros & cons. All of us have different views which is better for public transport. There is no particular solution that will make everyone happy be it SMRT buying more bendies or DD.
One of the main reason why ppl are discouraging bendies is cause of one reason. Yes we can go on & on debating how many more seconds a DD takes to unload passengers at bus stops. The biggest reason is that bendies causes traffic congestions alot more compared to a DD on busy road junctions due to it taking up more road space.
The common point is SMRT does need to beef up its high capacity fleet asap. Most of their bus services deserves high capacity buses. SMRT currently doesnt have the resources to 'pamper' its services like how certain SBS services are pampered. -
True enough,although bendies is good for short haul & feeders usage.
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Originally posted by vodafone27:
End of the day, there's no A is better than B or vice versa. Both has its pros & cons. All of us have different views which is better for public transport. There is no particular solution that will make everyone happy be it SMRT buying more bendies or DD.
One of the main reason why ppl are discouraging bendies is cause of one reason. Yes we can go on & on debating how many more seconds a DD takes to unload passengers at bus stops. The biggest reason is that bendies causes traffic congestions alot more compared to a DD on busy road junctions due to it taking up more road space.
The common point is SMRT does need to beef up its high capacity fleet asap. Most of their bus services deserves high capacity buses. SMRT currently doesnt have the resources to 'pamper' its services like how certain SBS services are pampered.But now, we are talking about bendies on feeders and Intratowns, where most of the time the routes are the only ones plying the roads there.
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Originally posted by vodafone27:
End of the day, there's no A is better than B or vice versa. Both has its pros & cons. All of us have different views which is better for public transport. There is no particular solution that will make everyone happy be it SMRT buying more bendies or DD.
One of the main reason why ppl are discouraging bendies is cause of one reason. Yes we can go on & on debating how many more seconds a DD takes to unload passengers at bus stops. The biggest reason is that bendies causes traffic congestions alot more compared to a DD on busy road junctions due to it taking up more road space.
The common point is SMRT does need to beef up its high capacity fleet asap. Most of their bus services deserves high capacity buses. SMRT currently doesnt have the resources to 'pamper' its services like how certain SBS services are pampered.Much agreed, find the right tools for the job!
DDs for coach-like + point to point svcs, Bendies for high turnover svcs.
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128,do you know how d road condition now in Singapore compared 10 years ago?Sg roads already like a war zone no need to mention peak hours,neighborhood or Cbd everyone fighting for space.If you got a better views then go on I should not proceed anymore
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The reason why both bendies and dds still exist to this date is because that there are still demand for it, if not either of them will already be extinct already. SMRT did the correct thing to bring in a dd under trial. Now SMRT really has to carefully plan out which routes to use dds and which to use bendies. Perhaps they can even do a survey to gain feedback so they can deploy the buses more effectively. One thing for sure is that bendies have to be reduced due to the road conditions over here.
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To start with SMRT should deploy DDs only on its long-haul routes. Bendies will support feeders / intra-towns. There is a demand for more bendies at feeder/intra towns but these services are not getting them due to lack of high capacity resources. Explain 811 having such few bendies, when it needs a lot more. 307 can also do with some bendies, no!? They just don't have resources.
DDs can take the trunk routes, and bendies can beef up capacity at the intra-town level.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
A quick primer on the advantages and disadvantages of double-decker buses:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/doubledecker-buses-to-run-again-in-sydney-20120823-24nyy.html
Sydney is not getting rid of their bendy buses anytime soon; they are still the preferred buses on frequently stopping and high turnover Metrobus routes.
Yet, Sydney has re-launched DDs back to save road space.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
To start with SMRT should deploy DDs only on its long-haul routes. Bendies will support feeders / intra-towns. There is a demand for more bendies at feeder/intra towns but these services are not getting them due to lack of high capacity resources. Explain 811 having such few bendies, when it needs a lot more. 307 can also do with some bendies, no!? They just don't have resources.
DDs can take the trunk routes, and bendies can beef up capacity at the intra-town level.
Hope current 190 and 857 bendies can be redeployed to 307 and 811 respectively then, and the two former services gets the DDs.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Hope current 190 and 857 bendies can be redeployed to 307 and 811 respectively then, and the two former services gets the DDs.
But did you mean 854 because 857 hardly has bendies... -
857 best is to use DDs,CTE and bendemeer there jam so jialat.854 also better use DD.
Svc that can use bendies:CCK feeders/intratown,BBT 945,BPJ 920/922,WRI feeders/intratowns
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did anyone see that white DD bus at ST? or just a talk and talk and nothing come out? if SMRT deploy DD buses i think all those long buses will be gone in a year time. Also it does not mean forever smrt must be in north and north west area. maybe one day smrt just take over some sbst service as LTA ever said the bus operator license will be renew when it expired so having DD buses smrt can acutally take over some sbst services. just like the trian service where DTL 2 and 3 is by sbst.
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Do you think STK only at Corporation road only?They also have sub factory somewhere else also.