Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Is that the only way 120 can be modified? Think more... There can be multiple other options... You can start at Rummi Tunggi Terminal with new stops along Redhill Close and loop @ Tehlok Blangah MRT via st 31/32... not possible? This way you provide Tehlok Blangah and Redhill residents with direct MRT connectivity to both EWL and CCL. Any duplication?
113 - yes any bus you deploy will have some pax. But if you take away a service, will anyone be really hurt apart from withdrawing an extra service? Let's see 113. From HCI to HG ave 8, you have 74, 147 in parallel. From HG Ave 8 to Hougang MRT, you have 62, opp side also 325 to HG MRT. Then you have 62/82/325/107 all going till HG Ave 2 bus sop. You have 82/107 continue to Kovan. You have 112 join in on HG Ave 2 all the way parallel till HG St 21. Where is the uniqueness of the route. Buses are deployed every 15/20 mins in peak hours on this part because of 113A. If the route was useful, 113A would have got crossover buses from some other service. The high loading point of 113 between Kovan and UPL has been ignored with no fleet add or capacity upgrade because of Kovan-HG sector.
325 - If you do the right thing by taking away 113 from HG to Kovan, 325 should be extended to HG St 21 as it looping back to interchange is a waste. Those from that one stop along HG Ave 2 have 132 to HG Int, but most people who take MRT prefer to take MRT at Kovan. Is there any pax from HG MRT stop to HG Int? No. There are some transfer pax that alight at HG Ave 2 to transfer to 25/55/854 etc. And then some few board towards HCI.
For 113, your thinking very selfish leh.
I have seen 113 with a full load of students from hg side tduring the morning . Most of them alight along hougang ave 1. Which is ard 20mins ride.
In the afternoon chij students flood 113 also. Without 113, there is only one bus svc from lorong ah soo to hougang. For hougang ave 1 side i would say 115 is taking off the loads of 113 until 6.15pm
If hougang street 11 can be converted into a bus terminal, i feel 113A can loop at terminate there and loop at kovan instead
i would say the load from hougang are mostly students and church goers. There are of course the working class who take 113 to kovan and transfer.
Originally posted by lemon1974:120 is because of the mp keep on lobby so they put one service there loh..
the feeder to teban gardens was withdraw mah....that why they amend 143 to follow the route
why is a trunk svc doing feeder routes?
859, 980 loops around sembawang for what?
120 is touted as a service between telok blangah and CBD.
New Bridge Road terminal is not even inside CBD
Originally posted by sbst191:For 113, your thinking very selfish leh.
I have seen 113 with a full load of students from hg side tduring the morning . Most of them alight along hougang ave 1. Which is ard 20mins ride.
In the afternoon chij students flood 113 also. Without 113, there is only one bus svc from lorong ah soo to hougang. For hougang ave 1 side i would say 115 is taking off the loads of 113 until 6.15pm
If hougang street 11 can be converted into a bus terminal, i feel 113A can loop at terminate there and loop at kovan instead
i would say the load from hougang are mostly students and church goers. There are of course the working class who take 113 to kovan and transfer.
Did you just say 115 is relieving the load on 113? You really make me laugh. I don't know when you have seen full loads on 113 between Kovan and Hougang. Most times bus has 15-20 pax only. Maybe that is full load for you.
For Teban Gardens, 79 already caters to Teban Gardens. 143 can also do Teban Gardens because the link between Teban Gardens and West Coast/Pasir Panjang is important. I don't like 143 going back on townhall and then turning to Pandan road. That is a useless loop with wasting time. 51 is there to serve the residents there.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:For Teban Gardens, 79 already caters to Teban Gardens. 143 can also do Teban Gardens because the link between Teban Gardens and West Coast/Pasir Panjang is important. I don't like 143 going back on townhall and then turning to Pandan road. That is a useless loop with wasting time. 51 is there to serve the residents there.
Hi mr BusAnalyser, what you think is for the majority. But you also have to think of the minority, even if that only constitutes just handful of people. There are a few people who need to go from pandan gardens to teban gardens and vice versa. Some people cannot walk far and have no other transport. So the link between teban gardens and pandan gardens need to be there. You cannot expect 2 estates to be so near with absolutely no direct link. Previously sbs 241 is withdrawn and sbs 143 is re-routed to provide this link and also extended from teban garden terminal to jurong east interchange. So what you may think is useless loop wasting time may mean a lot to others.
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr BusAnalyser, what you think is for the majority. But you also have to think of the minority, even if that only constitutes just handful of people. There are a few people who need to go from pandan gardens to teban gardens and vice versa. Some people cannot walk far and have no other transport. So the link between teban gardens and pandan gardens need to be there. You cannot expect 2 estates to be so near with absolutely no direct link. Previously sbs 241 is withdrawn and sbs 143 is re-routed to provide this link and also extended from teban garden terminal to jurong east interchange. So what you may think is useless loop wasting time may mean a lot to others.
If I have to buy that argument, then it see the intra connectivity between most estates is extremely poor whether in east, west or north. Normally you need to do at least one transfer. Moreover, it is not job of a trunk to do this kind of connection for the few minority. Coming to Pandan Gardens, there are only two bus stops. One bus stop is walking distance to west coast from where 39,143 can be taken to Teban. The other is walking distance to Jurong townhall from where 79,143 can be taken to Pandan. Pandan is a really small estate unlike estates in Tampines, Bedok, Boon Lay.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:If I have to buy that argument, then it see the intra connectivity between most estates is extremely poor whether in east, west or north. Normally you need to do at least one transfer. Moreover, it is not job of a trunk to do this kind of connection for the few minority. Coming to Pandan Gardens, there are only two bus stops. One bus stop is walking distance to west coast from where 39,143 can be taken to Teban. The other is walking distance to Jurong townhall from where 79,143 can be taken to Pandan. Pandan is a really small estate unlike estates in Tampines, Bedok, Boon Lay.
They already withdrew sbs 241 a feeder service whose initial job was to provide the link and tweaked sbs 143 a trunk service to cover the stops at pandan gardens. If they really followed your suggestion to cut off pandan gardens from sbs 143, residents there will make noise and protest. I think just one service sbs 143 to link these 2 estates (no matter how small it may be) will not do any major harm. As I say, there are many elder citizens living in these 2 areas. You cannot expect them to walk. For goodness sake, give them a linking bus service at their doorstep between these 2 estates.
Originally posted by sbst191:For 113, your thinking very selfish leh.
I have seen 113 with a full load of students from hg side tduring the morning . Most of them alight along hougang ave 1. Which is ard 20mins ride.
In the afternoon chij students flood 113 also. Without 113, there is only one bus svc from lorong ah soo to hougang. For hougang ave 1 side i would say 115 is taking off the loads of 113 until 6.15pm
If hougang street 11 can be converted into a bus terminal, i feel 113A can loop at terminate there and loop at kovan instead
i would say the load from hougang are mostly students and church goers. There are of course the working class who take 113 to kovan and transfer.
CHIJ students mostly take 113 when they are going to school or when they are going home. Church goers mostly visits the church once a week...
Why need to fleet upgrade when you can simply adjust your bus timing? You can always get more crossovers if need be...
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr BusAnalyser, what you think is for the majority. But you also have to think of the minority, even if that only constitutes just handful of people. There are a few people who need to go from pandan gardens to teban gardens and vice versa. Some people cannot walk far and have no other transport. So the link between teban gardens and pandan gardens need to be there. You cannot expect 2 estates to be so near with absolutely no direct link. Previously sbs 241 is withdrawn and sbs 143 is re-routed to provide this link and also extended from teban garden terminal to jurong east interchange. So what you may think is useless loop wasting time may mean a lot to others.
Like that you are seriously spoon feeded...(bolded lines)
Originally posted by TIB429E:CHIJ students mostly take 113 when they are going to school or when they are going home. Church goers mostly visits the church once a week...
Why need to fleet upgrade when you can simply adjust your bus timing? You can always get more crossovers if need be...
There are also holy innocents high school, punggol pri etc.
Im just trying to say that there is still demand for hg sector -_-
Originally posted by sbst191:There are also holy innocents high school, punggol pri etc.
Im just trying to say that there is still demand for hg sector -_-
How long does the demand last? I believe some crossovers is rather enough already...
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:If I have to buy that argument, then it see the intra connectivity between most estates is extremely poor whether in east, west or north. Normally you need to do at least one transfer. Moreover, it is not job of a trunk to do this kind of connection for the few minority. Coming to Pandan Gardens, there are only two bus stops. One bus stop is walking distance to west coast from where 39,143 can be taken to Teban. The other is walking distance to Jurong townhall from where 79,143 can be taken to Pandan. Pandan is a really small estate unlike estates in Tampines, Bedok, Boon Lay.
To add on, the 2 pandan gardens bus stop only have sbs 51 and sbs 143. To take buses to jurong town hall road and west coast road and expect residents to always walk in to the inner parts of pandan gardens is not practical la. For your info, no sbs 39 plies there. If you mean sbs 79, sbs 79 does not go to the bus stop near pandan gardens portion of west coast road. It goes to west coast road nearby teban garden side. Cheers
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
well... isnt that typical LTA kind of stubborn attitude... Yes, they decided to split last time, but if it will benefit pax now... why not consider merging again... Those who live along Punggol road can get direct service to Woodleigh, Potong Pasir without change... No pax will be hurt in the bargain because 82/107 follow same route between Serangoon and Hougang... Both buses do not have full pax within this sector... 82 main loading comes in between Hougang and Punggol road, while 107 high loading comes in between Lavendar and Serangoon... so I don't see why we have to have this stubborn attitude of "oh we made a mistake then by splitting these services, now we continue our mistake" and waste resources.
merge for what? later on long distance and become bunching and you will come complain again....think here only u have the stubborn attitude of want this and that to change....
Originally posted by TIB429E:Like that you are seriously spoon feeded...(bolded lines)
Hi mr TIB429E, to kill off the only direct linkage bus service between 2 nearby areas less than 800 metres apart is considered spoonfed to you? Next time when your house area has a direct linkage to the next estate is withdrawn and you will feel deeply aggreived by it. Sbs 143 is the so called direct link in between the 2 areas. They are not having 5 to 6 direct doorstep services. So please give the residents there a break.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Is that the only way 120 can be modified? Think more... There can be multiple other options... You can start at Rummi Tunggi Terminal with new stops along Redhill Close and loop @ Tehlok Blangah MRT via st 31/32... not possible? This way you provide Tehlok Blangah and Redhill residents with direct MRT connectivity to both EWL and CCL. Any duplication?
113 - yes any bus you deploy will have some pax. But if you take away a service, will anyone be really hurt apart from withdrawing an extra service? Let's see 113. From HCI to HG ave 8, you have 74, 147 in parallel. From HG Ave 8 to Hougang MRT, you have 62, opp side also 325 to HG MRT. Then you have 62/82/325/107 all going till HG Ave 2 bus sop. You have 82/107 continue to Kovan. You have 112 join in on HG Ave 2 all the way parallel till HG St 21. Where is the uniqueness of the route. Buses are deployed every 15/20 mins in peak hours on this part because of 113A. If the route was useful, 113A would have got crossover buses from some other service. The high loading point of 113 between Kovan and UPL has been ignored with no fleet add or capacity upgrade because of Kovan-HG sector.
325 - If you do the right thing by taking away 113 from HG to Kovan, 325 should be extended to HG St 21 as it looping back to interchange is a waste. Those from that one stop along HG Ave 2 have 132 to HG Int, but most people who take MRT prefer to take MRT at Kovan. Is there any pax from HG MRT stop to HG Int? No. There are some transfer pax that alight at HG Ave 2 to transfer to 25/55/854 etc. And then some few board towards HCI.
120.. the extension to pasir panjang is what YOU HAVE PROPOSED before.. not me... i am not working for LTA and therefore i wont be bother on helping them to plan the route.... whatever route they plan,they sure have done some survey....
as for sv113/325, they are there for a purpose.... dun keep on messing routes as you like...113 serve more as townlink service...
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Like I don't know 43/70/147 go YCK corridor. First, people along YCK corridor choose to board at NEX and not at 147 stop. This stop is mostly used by pax who live along HG Ave 8. On way to Serangoon in AM, you have 43/70/116/147 all buses because anyone who is at Toho Green stop can choose between 4 services. In PM, it is different. People can't dance between the stops of 116, 43/70, 147 - 3 different stops, with all rush coming to NEX. It is painful to see 116 on opposite side leaving with only 16/20 pax, when 43/70 on NEX side bursting. If you are concerned about more buses on NEX, there is a solution. When you merge 82/107, you anyway have one service less to call. Alternately, route 81/82 via Boundary road and Opp Nex bus stop and then heading to Upper Serangoon Rd. But yes LTA is stubborn to do any such changes.
see.. you are pampering those ppl at Toho Green...2 bus services is more than enough.. why would they need so many bus services from the MRT? why would you want to make Sv116 full of paxes travelling from Nex to YCK road (toho green) and thus preventing those paxes alighting at serangoon north ave 4/5 from boarding at nex? there are lots of area with only one pathetic service to/fro mrt. might as well ask LTA to ensure that all areas have at least 2 bus services to serve a MRT station?
btw, NOT all sv43/70 buses are bursting with paxes for every PM trip from NEX.. and LTA motive of putting sv116 at the opposite bus stop is for sv116 to cater to particular sector of paxes...
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr TIB429E, to kill off the only direct linkage bus service between 2 nearby areas less than 800 metres apart is considered spoonfed to you? Next time when your house area has a direct linkage to the next estate is withdrawn and you will feel deeply aggreived by it. Sbs 143 is the so called direct link in between the 2 areas. They are not having 5 to 6 direct doorstep services. So please give the residents there a break.
You can always transfer what...
And bro, the 2 area is just seperated by 1 road. Unless you're telling me people from Teban Garden needs to travel to International Business park..if not I don't think you will die by walking.
And I don't think Service 30/79 is that far from you?
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Regarding sv 30. Building a bridge is a solution? I am amazed with how you think after trying to be smart most times... Why does it have to go Penjuru. It turns right onto Jurong Town Hall. It only needs to take another right to Teban Gardens. This way both directions you cater to the populous Teban Garden area. 143 can still do Teban Gardens but does not need to do Pandan. Same logic as yours. You have 51 to West Coast and JE. You have AM downroutes on 51. The loop is waste, and waste of fuel and resources. 143 can do Teban Gardens and still acts as the feeder you propose, just that after Teban it should go directly by West Coast and not do the Pandan loop again. Too difficult to modify? What you are doing is saving people's time living along Teban area. Those along Pandan, also have option through quick walk to get buses from AYE unlike Teban.
on one hand, you are complaining that sv 143 go long winded at teban garden, and on the other hand, you are asking sv30 to go one big round at teban garden (in the direction of bedok). isnt you contradicting? that why i tot you are proposing to build a bridge at Penjuru road junction for sv30 to turn in, so that it WONT have to go such a big round at teban garden....
waste of fuels and resources for sv143 to go via pandan garden? additional 500m to 1km distance is waste of fuel? you have to think of ppl at pandan garden as well.just like what dupdup77 said... dun amend for the sake of amending...
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:maybe you should work at LTA instead of coming here and talk about all these same route rationization in so many threads... keep on saying the same thing again and again...
I would have loved to work at LTA... just that they will not be able to afford me... so I will use this forum to say what I feel. Cheers!
Why LTA cant afford to hire you? there is the post of the transport minister..if you apply, you will sure get it with your qualification instead of coming here in this forum.. it is a waste of your time and talent here..
Originally posted by TIB429E:You can always transfer what...
And bro, the 2 area is just seperated by 1 road. Unless you're telling me people from Teban Garden needs to travel to International Business park..if not I don't think you will die by walking.
And I don't think Service 30/79 is that far from you?
transfer? if there is a current link there and you go and remove it and ask ppl to transfer? pls lah, not all ppl are young as you who are able to travel around to spot cameo..... there are ppl who just want to get to their destination fast without the need of transferring....
btw, based on your logic, they should break up 911/912/913.... and split into 6 services instead, so all paxes can just alight at WDL and do transfer instead...
Originally posted by lemon1974:transfer? if there is a current link there and you go and remove it and ask ppl to transfer? pls lah, not all ppl are young as you who are able to travel around to spot cameo..... there are ppl who just want to get to their destination fast without the need of transferring....
btw, based on your logic, they should break up 911/912/913.... and split into 6 services instead, so all paxes can just alight at WDL and do transfer instead...
Your 911/912/913 is another story la dey...they are linking estates that aren't just across the road...
Originally posted by TIB429E:You can always transfer what...
And bro, the 2 area is just seperated by 1 road. Unless you're telling me people from Teban Garden needs to travel to International Business park..if not I don't think you will die by walking.
And I don't think Service 30/79 is that far from you?
Hi mr TIB429E, i am afraid public buses are not always taken by well built people. There are others to take care of. Not every person wants go to the teban gardens by the roadside jurong town hall rd. Some want go inner portion of teban gardens and that distance is easily 800 metres. Public bus is to relieve people from all the inconvenience. When a route is planned, there is an objective. Sbs 241 was the initial feeder service. Due to the feeder service using up resources. Sbs 143 was rerouted to cover sbs 241 objective on its way and sbs 241 is withdrawn. It serves its current purpose and you want it amended not to ply pandan gardens and ask people to transfer for a short distance of 800 metres? What logic? Now the trend is to introduce new buses ply those inner routes just like sbs 121 plying kim tian road. Why not ask everybody walk from tiong bahru mrt to kim tian road and amend sbs 121 to ply the main road instead?
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
so what if it is full only on one trip. That trip we have to ensure people are able to take a bus and even enter the bus. Why now you have a mindset that every bus should have demand? If LTA makes small changes like making 116 call at NEX, it will relieve off some pressure from 43/70. You want one bus 116 to go with only 15/20 pax in PM peak and then you want 43/70 to have 100 pax. Good thinking!
hello, pls read carefully, i did not say that every bus need to have demand.do not put words in my mouth, i am saying that the bus resources are wasted if u keep on adding more buses on the same services....as in, you put one more bus on sv45 and it only help on one trip in AM peak/PM peak only while the other few trips are quite empty... SBST is actually doing quite well with its planning, but then they cant keep on committing too many buses onto one particular route without taking into consideration the return journey etc..
Ppl keep on saying add more buses will resolve the capacity issues, but then, what about the return journey (let say Sv70 from shenton way in am peak).. most of the buses are empty... that why SBST have to come up with so many "A" or "B" services instead to resolve the issues..
Originally posted by TIB429E:You can always transfer what...
Your 911/912/913 is another story la dey...they are linking estates that aren't just across the road...
same mah... also linking...just the distance different only mah... can TRANSFER mah.. just like what u say? across the road can transfer but linking estate cant transfer?
Originally posted by lemon1974:see.. you are pampering those ppl at Toho Green...2 bus services is more than enough.. why would they need so many bus services from the MRT? why would you want to make Sv116 full of paxes travelling from Nex to YCK road (toho green) and thus preventing those paxes alighting at serangoon north ave 4/5 from boarding at nex? there are lots of area with only one pathetic service to/fro mrt. might as well ask LTA to ensure that all areas have at least 2 bus services to serve a MRT station?
btw, NOT all sv43/70 buses are bursting with paxes for every PM trip from NEX.. and LTA motive of putting sv116 at the opposite bus stop is for sv116 to cater to particular sector of paxes...
Hi All, let's all not forget the objective of why a new service is introduced and keep thinking of amending and straying away from the initial objective and have it later withdrawn and adding into unwanted disputes. Sbs 116 was introduced with the main objective of serangoon north ave 4 and ave 5 residents faster and more direction connection to serangoon in mind after numerous complaints. Of course other secondary aims along the routes are noted which still pick up people.