LTA's Bus Service Enhancement Programme (BSEP) (Part 2)
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr SMB128B, I agree for sbs 518. Actually the frequency of this service is supposed to be in such a way as it brings residents from pasir ris, tampines and a portion of bedok to the city area all at one time. Its main aim is not to connect pasir ris to tampines or tampines to bedok. There are many other connections for bus services which serve pasir ris to tampines or tampines to bedok or pasir ris to bedok depending on where you are at (which part) and where you want to go (which part). Cheers.
Lol lah, very little people will take within suburb area one for express... Unless the places only just nice have this svc to connect eg. PSR West Mall/Meridian JC to Temasek Poly...
And the freq of 15 mins is absurd... Even for city to suburb... I mean just look at the crowd! Those who can't board the bus! And those who paid higher fares but have to squeeze (not a matter of standing here) on the bus for the entire express journey!
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Lol lah, very little people will take within suburb area one for express... Unless the places only just nice have this svc to connect eg. PSR West Mall/Meridian JC to Temasek Poly...
And the freq of 15 mins is absurd... Even for city to suburb... I mean just look at the crowd! Those who can't board the bus! And those who paid higher fares but have to squeeze (not a matter of standing here) on the bus for the entire express journey!
Hi mr smb128B, yes I agree wholeheartedly with you regarding the poor frequency. Cheers!
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Just wondering... Is there any DD restriction for 518?
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Originally posted by azharjj:
Just wondering... Is there any DD restriction for 518?
Unnecessary to have double deckers.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
518 desperately needs BSEP.
I find it insulting that the only service to connect half of heartland Tampines, part of heartland Bedok and entire PSR heartlands legitimately to the city can only deserve full SDs with a horrific 15 min freq for weekend, consequently and effectively leaving 30 over pax stranded at the MBS stop everytime a bus (actually all of them) leaves jam-packed every weekend evening, from 7.30 pm onwards.
I don't bloody see WHY can 502 get DDs and boosted freq when its SDs are similarly filled like 518 before its improvement, and 518 CAN'T. This is a matter of principle here. EXPECT people to give up cars to the city by charging exorbitant ERP charges and increasing parking fees, YET depriving them of their rights to travel to the city by public transport! And THEN charging them extra for the express service (which is the only fact to make travelling on PT > car make sense), YET not providing them an express journey time as time taken to watch two buses zoom past already made it not that express!
My ultimate wish is to see DDs on 518 and improved freq. Otherwise I hope two more AP SDs can be added to 518 during weekends. It will really help.
502/506/518 should be made trunk, then LTA can pin down the QoS on these services.
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Originally posted by ButIAmAToilet:
Am I the only one who feels that 8 needs even more DDs/frequency update and 518 needs at least a DD to cater to the crowd at Blk 302 Tamp Ave 2 during morning peak? After taking them for more than 2 years, I noticed that majority of the pax either came from Tamp North (28) or Pasir Ris East (39,17,12). So there are a large number of pax trying to board 8 (consession card users) DDs, which are normally 1/3 full (half for KUBs).
Then we look at the pax taking 518. 1/3 - 1/2 of them are usually going to CBD, the rest is usually going to TP. Normally when 518 reachs Blk 302, it has enough space for at most 20 pax. So the TP crowd board them (the buses normally come together), and normally, some will be left behind.
Then we look at the 5 stops between Blk 302 and TP. In those 5 stops, there seems to be people trying to board the bus. The thing is, for 518, half of those who can't board the bus (because it is already full) looks like they are going to CBD area!
DDs for 518 is still up to debate, I guess, cause sometimes, I can barely board it at Loyang, and sometimes, the bus is (quite) empty at Morning peak.
I don't think Sv 8 needs frequency improvement... What it needs is converting 2 SD slots into DD on priority. In the past, SBST gave massive upgrades to Sv 90 that runs in parallel until you hit Paya Lebar rd... This part is fine with existing fleet but loads beyond to Tampines can b v heavy especially on Temasek operating days.
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Originally posted by ButIAmAToilet:
Am I the only one who feels that 8 needs even more DDs/frequency update and 518 needs at least a DD to cater to the crowd at Blk 302 Tamp Ave 2 during morning peak? After taking them for more than 2 years, I noticed that majority of the pax either came from Tamp North (28) or Pasir Ris East (39,17,12). So there are a large number of pax trying to board 8 (consession card users) DDs, which are normally 1/3 full (half for KUBs).
Then we look at the pax taking 518. 1/3 - 1/2 of them are usually going to CBD, the rest is usually going to TP. Normally when 518 reachs Blk 302, it has enough space for at most 20 pax. So the TP crowd board them (the buses normally come together), and normally, some will be left behind.
Then we look at the 5 stops between Blk 302 and TP. In those 5 stops, there seems to be people trying to board the bus. The thing is, for 518, half of those who can't board the bus (because it is already full) looks like they are going to CBD area!
DDs for 518 is still up to debate, I guess, cause sometimes, I can barely board it at Loyang, and sometimes, the bus is (quite) empty at Morning peak.
Acc to me, 518 def needs BSEP add... DD not very sure... An extra Citaro should do the job.
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Originally posted by azharjj:
Just wondering... Is there any DD restriction for 518?
No. I think SD fleet add should do the job.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
518 desperately needs BSEP.
I find it insulting that the only service to connect half of heartland Tampines, part of heartland Bedok and entire PSR heartlands legitimately to the city can only deserve full SDs with a horrific 15 min freq for weekend, consequently and effectively leaving 30 over pax stranded at the MBS stop everytime a bus (actually all of them) leaves jam-packed every weekend evening, from 7.30 pm onwards.
I don't bloody see WHY can 502 get DDs and boosted freq when its SDs are similarly filled like 518 before its improvement, and 518 CAN'T. This is a matter of principle here. EXPECT people to give up cars to the city by charging exorbitant ERP charges and increasing parking fees, YET depriving them of their rights to travel to the city by public transport! And THEN charging them extra for the express service (which is the only fact to make travelling on PT > car make sense), YET not providing them an express journey time as time taken to watch two buses zoom past already made it not that express!
My ultimate wish is to see DDs on 518 and improved freq. Otherwise I hope two more AP SDs can be added to 518 during weekends. It will really help.
I definitely agree that 518 needs BSEP add. Not dd though. The loads for 502>>>518.. I have observed many times at orchard/MBS... Having said that 518 should immediately get one Citaro to spread the load and improve frequency.
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Originally posted by SBS7557R:
502/506/518 should be made trunk, then LTA can pin down the QoS on these services.
IMO 506 also needs BSEP Citaro add. Poor frequency.
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Originally posted by SBS7557R:
502/506/518 should be made trunk, then LTA can pin down the QoS on these services.
Huehue... In other words making 518 another of those slow winding routes to the city?! NO! Doesn't work that way!
This is equivalent to double standards! Expect people to give up cars yet making PT so unattractive! I think the QoS should be pinned down WITHOUT downgrading these svcs to trunks! It's time for LTA to really appreciate these express services, they play a vital role in swaying the decision of tens of thousands living in the heartlands to take the bus instead of driving!
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Originally posted by SBS7557R:
502/506/518 should be made trunk, then LTA can pin down the QoS on these services.
Personally, I would want the express bus services to be shorter, so that the travelling times can be shortened. However, I know this would only cause the fares to increase, since this would mean less people taking the bus service (low demand, high supply). So, yeah~
Well, do not worry. The Quality of Service can be monitored and controlled regardless of feeder, trunk, express, or even night rider. LTA can simply collect data from the Ez-link card readers (from the satellite above that is connected to the readers) and see how long the bus takes to drive from point A to point B, and what time they arrive at the bus stops. Otherwise, it can send its people down to the bus stops to check whether or not the bus adheres to the schedule.
Anyway, I thought LTA is implementing a rewards/penalty system already?
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The thing is 518 is easy to milk money from TP students, since they can't use conssession card on 518
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Originally posted by ButIAmAToilet:
The thing is 518 is easy to milk money from TP students, since they can't use conssession card on 518
From what you wrote, it seems that you stay in Pasir Ris/Bedok North and 518 is the only bus that connects TP to your house.
Well, alternatively, you can take a regular bus service to a bus interchange/major bus stop and take another regular bus service from there.
You should try using the directions service (Getting around>Directions>Transit) at Google Maps to see how to travel between TP and your house on regular bus services.
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Originally posted by JurongWestresident:
From what you wrote, it seems that you stay in Pasir Ris/Bedok North and 518 is the only bus that connects TP to your house.
Well, alternatively, you can take a regular bus service to a bus interchange/major bus stop and take another regular bus service from there.
You should try using the directions service (Getting around>Directions>Transit) at Google Maps to see how to travel between TP and your house on regular bus services.
Well, I am considered lucky compared with other commuters, since I can take 21/59 to SAFRA and walk to TP (my lessons are held close to TP East Gate). But when I feel lazy to walk, or don't feel like changing bus, I will take 518
Normally I will take to Blk 302 to change to 8, but if a commuter use trunk service from (example) Pasir Ris West Plaza to TP, it will be 39 change to 8. But during 8am to 8.30am, it will be a miracle if you can even board 8 (or sometimes even 518). I once missed 3 VO and 1 KUB because the crowd there seems never ending!
Oh, and 518 only stop at one stop in Bedok, which 23 (seems to be able to) cater to. It will be nice if 518 do stop at Bedok MRT on its return trip. Could even offload some pax from 69.
Hmmmmm, should 8 be reverted back to its former Pasir Ris - Toa Payoh route? Or retain its current route?
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Huehue... In other words making 518 another of those slow winding routes to the city?! NO! Doesn't work that way!
This is equivalent to double standards! Expect people to give up cars yet making PT so unattractive! I think the QoS should be pinned down WITHOUT downgrading these svcs to trunks! It's time for LTA to really appreciate these express services, they play a vital role in swaying the decision of tens of thousands living in the heartlands to take the bus instead of driving!
Are they even that "express" in the first place? 502 plies the express sector towards the city along Boon Lay Way/Commonwealth Ave West/Clementi Ave 2/Ulu Pandan Rd/Holland Rd/Napier Rd/Tanglin Rd instead of the scheduled PIE > Stevens Rd > Scotts Rd listed in bus directories. And Holland Rd is jam-packed during AM peak.
Just make them basic while retaining their existing routes. Converting them to trunks also make them more attractive with lower payable fares.
506 runs parallel to 985 between Jln Anak Bt & Lor 2 Toa Payoh, but yet 1 is trunk & 1 is express. Double standards as well? Shouldn't 985 be express as well?
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If 985 express then 36,858,969,965,168,161,23 will follow suit but they cant. 506 can just renumbered it if they want to make it a trunk service. The most important thing is what qualifies a service to be an express service? The service i named above also plies expressway also mah and i believe some are maybe longer than 502 and 506 route on the expressway. At least 951E,971E,850E,982E, qualifies as one coz not only it has the 'E' but it literally plies the expressway for a long distance just like 518. But 854E also express but doesnt plies in expressway at all.
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
If 985 express then 36,858,969,965,168,161,23 will follow suit but they cant. 506 can just renumbered it if they want to make it a trunk service.
The most important thing is what qualifies a service to be an express service? The service i named above also plies expressway also mah and i believe some are maybe longer than 502 and 506 route on the expressway.
At least 951E,971E,850E,982E, qualifies as one coz not only it has the ‘E’ but it literally plies the expressway for a long distance just like 518.
But 854E also express but doesnt plies in expressway at all.
854E uses SLE from Lentor to YCK flyover, and PIE from Eunos to Bedok North
Maybe express services should charge normal fees for intra-town travelling, like Soon Lee - Toh Guan for 502, Pasir Ris - Bedok North for 518, and Jurong East - Bukit Batok/Ubi - Upp East Coast for 506
But then the Toa Payoh sector for 506 how? We got 5/59 from Toa Payoh to Bedok le, how about the Toa Payoh - Bukit Batok part?
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Well..saw somebody posted a picture of the poster of both 358P/359P...and there's the bus company with pictures of the buses there...
359P with MyBus, picture showing 2 45-55 seater bus.
358P with some chinese company, picture showing 3 24 seater china bus.
Hope it's not possible~~
MyBus used 3 Isuzu LT134P coaches today (1 with Liannex, 2 with SC Chivalrous bodywork)
Travel GSH used 3 Zhongtong Triumph LCK6660D minibus (with an extra spare Zhongtong Cruise LCK6118H coach on standby). Chatted with the staff, the reason why they deployed it is because of a tight turn at one of the junctions and it also allows them to complete the trip faster. 291P and 293P will be using full sized buses.
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
can switch the mini buses to 268P instead.... took at least 7 times during pm peak and max no of pax is 6 for the whole journey... two trips i am the only pax on board.... very soon, this will be withdrawn or amended to 76P instead...
Same for 240P. However, I heard from the drivers that this svc will last for 2 years. After 2 years, they will then decide to withdraw or continue...
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Originally posted by SBS9C:
MyBus used 3 Isuzu LT134P coaches today (1 with Liannex, 2 with SC Chivalrous bodywork)
Travel GSH used 3 Zhongtong Triumph LCK6660D minibus (with an extra spare Zhongtong Cruise LCK6118H coach on standby). Chatted with the staff, the reason why they deployed it is because of a tight turn at one of the junctions and it also allows them to complete the trip faster. 291P and 293P will be using full sized buses.
Wah..really put minibuses :/
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All these comments about 502, 506 and 518 make me wonder if they are actually needed now... Do we need to make them have more express sectors, or have them as trunks with a good frequency (10 mins or below)?
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Originally posted by SBS9C:
MyBus used 3 Isuzu LT134P coaches today (1 with Liannex, 2 with SC Chivalrous bodywork)
Travel GSH used 3 Zhongtong Triumph LCK6660D minibus (with an extra spare Zhongtong Cruise LCK6118H coach on standby). Chatted with the staff, the reason why they deployed it is because of a tight turn at one of the junctions and it also allows them to complete the trip faster. 291P and 293P will be using full sized buses.
I believe that junction the staff was talking about for Sv 358P is the one from PSR Dr 4 into PSR St 41. A few hundred metres after that on the hill, there is a super big blind spot and the minibuses might be more apt there. While the reason the staff cited (that super tight turning) is valid, I'm still inclined the difference in demand between Sv 358P & Sv 359P also played a part in the minibuses being used for 358P.
Too good a frequency honestly when I see like 2x KUBs on Sv 359 and 1x Sv 359P Isuzu arriving at the St 11 bus stop within 20seconds of each other during AM Peak today, hahah.
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Wah..really put minibuses :/
Idk why you semeed to have a problem with minibuses being deployed on Sv 358P though? Is it really that significant or important to have full-sized coaches on such a svc, when I had posted earlier that Sv 358P's demand is way lower than Sv 359P + the tight junction along the route?
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Acc to me, 518 def needs BSEP add... DD not very sure... An extra Citaro should do the job.
Pardon me, but why are some of us here seemingly so obsessed with whether Sv 518 needs a BSEP add? Doesn't a non-BSEP fleet add do the same job too?
Furthermore, a non-BSEP fleet add could be a full-day bus somemore. Isn't that even better?
If we're talking about BSEP, that restricts it to only Citaros. I wouldn't mind if Sv 518 gets an additional KUB though, as long as they kope from those that had their gearboxes tuned somewhat previously (eg those perm Sv 36).