Loading level on buses
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
No you didn't get my point. On return journey, you will cause inconvenience to commuters from HG/SGK as they will not be able to board on SDs. What is the other alternative for these people? For Punggol residents, they will still have 168 DDs. Don't you still see the problem?
Hi mr BusAnalyser, for the return journey, I do not foresee many people from Punggol alighting at TPE stop on sengkang side. Why? It is not a direct service as it is only a so called supplementary service to a minor section of the residents living next to TPE. Most people will prefer sbs 34 which goes inside Punggol. So it is not perceived as a major threat to sbs 27 and all those who are going to sengkang and hougang from CGA. Cheers.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Why do you not address the point of DDs needed on Sv 27.. And since it is not possible bcoz of cga.. Overlay with 27M with DDs. You don't have an opinion on this?
Hi mr BusAnalyser, I cannot say anything about this. Everybody knows double decker is not possible so I do not see any need to repeat. From the posts here, they are not keen on 27M. Hope they finally decide to put double decker on 27A to tampines one fine day.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
No as in, 109 need to go up, down and instantly up again!!
I mean, you never notice the route of 109?!
Let me tell you a fact hor, that the LTA never knew. Some people preferred 109 to get to Sengkang from Pasir Ris due to its less winding road. But now? It has to be caught on a jam and has to wait for another traffic light! Less people would patronise 109! Other svcs like 27 or 89 is okay as they are taking the immediate slip road to continue, but 109 has to go back down again and get up again! This is different from svcs like 168 or 858 as they only will go up again somewhere else, here 109 is serving a bus stop of the exact same neighbourhood it will serve AGAIN!
Makes no sense to me.
Hi mr SMB128B, I know 109 journey well as I often take it. I agree this is a fast way from loyang to sengkang. Sbs 89 also goes from loyang to sengkang but it leaves at a slip road earlier. Sbs 109 leaves at the next slip road towards sengkang hawker centre along sengkang east road. But then not much difference except for 3 mins more. The convenience brought upon to other sections of sengkang residents will be much more felt for sbs 109 to stop there. In your so called same neighbourhood, there are people living at other blocks next to TPE. Those new blocks at the edge of TPE, those currently built BTO blocks next to the temple and coffeehouse and the rental blocks and those flats inside rivervale crescent are within walking distance will benefit. Currently they do not benefit. So why not? Remember they should not be deprived of this service. Cheers.
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr BusAnalyser, I cannot say anything about this. Everybody knows double decker is not possible so I do not see any need to repeat. From the posts here, they are not keen on 27M. Hope they finally decide to put double decker on 27A to tampines one fine day.
Yes but DDs is possible on SWT? What possible could be the reason not to give DDs on SWT? Even 43A has DDs on SWT, one BSEP.
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr Acx1688, yes I agree loading patterns will change. At first moment, I think the crowds along Punggol road 1st stop before TPE and after TPE will drop. Sbs 83 loading will drop slightly as some people will take sbs 3 and sbs 34 to the new stop to change to other buses. Currently Punggol residents take sbs 83 to Punggol road blk 190C stop or walk over to blk 298A to change buses. I foresee sbs 161 loading towards woodlands will also drop as it will be complemented by sbs 168, smrt 858 and smrt 969 slightly. Even sbs 85 and smrt 965 loading will be affected as the journey to yishun is covered by smrt 969. Sbs 34 loading will drop as smrt 858 brings people directly to Changi airport after TPE stop. Sbs 27 loading may or may not drop slightly and we shall see later. There will be many new links created. Examples are links to seletar camp, sembawang mrt and many more! Cheers.
You know you have almost said all bus service loading will drop except SMRT services 858/969. And to an extent I agree. Will 969 and 858 be able to manage extra load?? It is already utilized to its capacity. This means there will be need for significant addition of buses.. Hopefully more high cap buses on 969. I feel 161 loading will still stay as it is quick option to WDL unless people move to 168..
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
No as in, 109 need to go up, down and instantly up again!!
I mean, you never notice the route of 109?!
Let me tell you a fact hor, that the LTA never knew. Some people preferred 109 to get to Sengkang from Pasir Ris due to its less winding road. But now? It has to be caught on a jam and has to wait for another traffic light! Less people would patronise 109! Other svcs like 27 or 89 is okay as they are taking the immediate slip road to continue, but 109 has to go back down again and get up again! This is different from svcs like 168 or 858 as they only will go up again somewhere else, here 109 is serving a bus stop of the exact same neighbourhood it will serve AGAIN!
Makes no sense to me.
But you also need to note that 109 has space for more pax compared to 89 and 27 I don't know how will take more pax. So 109 stopping makes more sense over other services from a loading point of view.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Yes but DDs is possible on SWT? What possible could be the reason not to give DDs on SWT? Even 43A has DDs on SWT, one BSEP.
Hi mr BusAnalyser, I think the main reason is they know that sbs 27 has one of the highest frequencies. I have also told SMB128B before. This should be the main factor why they decide sbs 27 to remain its current way. Cheers.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
You know you have almost said all bus service loading will drop except SMRT services 858/969. And to an extent I agree. Will 969 and 858 be able to manage extra load?? It is already utilized to its capacity. This means there will be need for significant addition of buses.. Hopefully more high cap buses on 969. I feel 161 loading will still stay as it is quick option to WDL unless people move to 168..
Hi mr BusAnalyser, with the upcoming implementation of the new bus stop at TPE, the pros will surely outweigh the cons. It is naturally good for the loading pattern to slightly alter and also this will help to take away a bit traffic from the crowded Punggol road (blk 190C and blk 298A stops). Of course depending on exact locations of their flats, most will flock to sbs 161 to woodlands and a few will go to sbs 168 to woodlands. Actually by having one more stop at each side of the TPE, the impact on the bus routes will not be extremely great. Of course, after 3 months of implementation, there will be a routine change in loading and it will be great to see how it pans out later on. As such, new routes may still go to sengkang and Punggol not because of the sudden change in loading due to the bus stops but more because of increasing population in the 2 estates. With more flats, naturally more new bus services will come. So it will be good to make a distinction between 'loading change due to TPE stops' and 'increased loading due to more flats and people'. However sometimes they overlap and cannot be clearly demarcated out. Cheers
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
But you also need to note that 109 has space for more pax compared to 89 and 27 I don't know how will take more pax. So 109 stopping makes more sense over other services from a loading point of view.
Bro you got it wrong.
In fact it is the EXACT opposite.
109 SDs during peak will get packed to the door, even after reaching Sengkang. And may I ask how many DDs are actually running on 109? Proportionately the SDs would be more...
On the other hand, 89 has much more DDs than SDs during peak. In fact, you wont even find any SDs during peak on some weekday evenings on 89! As for the DDs most of the time the standees won't even fill up half the lower deck. All seats taken though.
Now in terms of ROUTE. Which makes more sense: coming up, stopping at stop and then resume as per normal or come up, stop, wait for jam and traffic light, go down, and UP AGAIN?! I could NOT think of a single route that would ultimately make 109 worth the stop. All I think it does is destroy one of the main advantages of 109.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Bro you got it wrong.
In fact it is the EXACT opposite.
109 SDs during peak will get packed to the door, even after reaching Sengkang. And may I ask how many DDs are actually running on 109? Proportionately the SDs would be more...
On the other hand, 89 has much more DDs than SDs during peak. In fact, you wont even find any SDs during peak on some weekday evenings on 89! As for the DDs most of the time the standees won't even fill up half the lower deck. All seats taken though.
Now in terms of ROUTE. Which makes more sense: coming up, stopping at stop and then resume as per normal or come up, stop, wait for jam and traffic light, go down, and UP AGAIN?! I could NOT think of a single route that would ultimately make 109 worth the stop. All I think it does is destroy one of the main advantages of 109.
Hi mr SMB128B, sbs 89 has more double deckers because it is a loop service and crowds are expected to be more. Sbs 109 is fixed at 2 sides so uses single deck. With surge in crowds lately, double deckers are used.
Sbs 109 still retains the main advantage even after it stops at TPE stop. Why? The whole sector is still express except for this stop. Other services also stop here but most have to stop at all stops on their normal routes while sbs 109 is still express for quite a distance. It still wins in terms of bus journey timing. Cheers
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr BusAnalyser, I think the main reason is they know that sbs 27 has one of the highest frequencies. I have also told SMB128B before. This should be the main factor why they decide sbs 27 to remain its current way. Cheers.
Agreed Sv 27 has a great frequency but you have to also identify with the woes of the people.
1. Sv 27 bunches more than it does not. 2-3 buses together is common. Especially at Tampinee Reg Library towards Hougang, you will see 3 buses in PM turning in from tam ave 4. As you are aware, people all flog into the first bus. This way first two buses get 70 pax, next buses that come go empty. Very common. You realize people go standing, sticking to each other for 20-25 mins of their journey. Can be avoided by putting lesser buses no roads and having DDs leaving from Tampines interchange instead on 27M.
2. CGA does not need 3-4 minute frequency. The loading there is pretty low. Hence, 27 can have frequency of 8-10 mins to CGA and 27M can have frequency of 6-8 mins from Tampines Interchange with DDs.
Lta should seriously consider this, and this decision will very well be welcome by people.
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr SMB128B, sbs 89 has more double deckers because it is a loop service and crowds are expected to be more. Sbs 109 is fixed at 2 sides so uses single deck. With surge in crowds lately, double deckers are used.
Sbs 109 still retains the main advantage even after it stops at TPE stop. Why? The whole sector is still express except for this stop. Other services also stop here but most have to stop at all stops on their normal routes while sbs 109 is still express for quite a distance. It still wins in terms of bus journey timing. Cheers
How is it still express for quite a distance?!
Other services can just turn left and continue while 109 has to wait for traffic light!!
I seriously doubt your "experience" with 109 and your credibility as a whole...
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Do you know the stop before YCK road on Buangkok Green can fetch Sv 43 about 60-70 pax at one go??? Crazy boarding at this stop. Even spotted Sv 88 gets 40-45 pax boarding on this stop. Sv 325 gets about 5 pax.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Do you know the stop before YCK road on Buangkok Green can fetch Sv 43 about 60-70 pax at one go??? Crazy boarding at this stop. Even spotted Sv 88 gets 40-45 pax boarding on this stop. Sv 325 gets about 5 pax.
Major stop that one is.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
How is it still express for quite a distance?!
Other services can just turn left and continue while 109 has to wait for traffic light!!
I seriously doubt your "experience" with 109 and your credibility as a whole...
Hi mr SMB128B, other services can just turn left and continue. Right! While continuing, they will stop at each and every bus stop enroute to destination!
Sbs 109 has to wait for traffic light at junction. Right. After few mins, it will still move pasr traffic light and goes express again before turning left to sengkang east road. This express portion makes up time lost for the traffic light, correct?
No need to doubt my experience with sbs 109. Also one of my favourite bus to hougang 1.
No need to doubt my credibility as a whole. Sbs 109 will benefit many sengkang residents living near the TPE. To them, convenience will be much more important than my credibility. So many new links are created for them. They may not even need to go to sengkang interchange to transfer to sbs 159 anymore.
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr SMB128B, other services can just turn left and continue. Right! While continuing, they will stop at each and every bus stop enroute to destination!
Sbs 109 has to wait for traffic light at junction. Right. After few mins, it will still move pasr traffic light and goes express again before turning left to sengkang east road. This express portion makes up time lost for the traffic light, correct?
No need to doubt my experience with sbs 109. Also one of my favourite bus to hougang 1.
No need to doubt my credibility as a whole. Sbs 109 will benefit many sengkang residents living near the TPE. To them, convenience will be much more important than my credibility. So many new links are created for them. They may not even need to go to sengkang interchange to transfer to sbs 159 anymore.
You probably spend more time waiting for the bus than waiting at the traffic light.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
You probably spend more time waiting for the bus than waiting at the traffic light.
Hi mr sgbuses, yes you are right. A short wait at the traffic light is not going to cost an arm or a leg.
Sometimes I wonder why there are many people in this forum who wrote inside the route suggestions in another topic to introduce new bus services providing so-called new links to connect places with other places which either currently lacks the linkage or totally no link as of today.
Now that the soon to be introduced extra bus stop along the TPE is already indirectly giving new links to the routes, but people are hesitant because they have services affecting them. An extra bus stop just does the trick. It does not involve a lot of new resources or manpower. The impact is going to be much better than introducing new bus services because they really provide many types of new linkages. Hooray! Isn't that what people want?
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr sgbuses, yes you are right. A short wait at the traffic light is not going to cost an arm or a leg.
Sometimes I wonder why there are many people in this forum who wrote inside the route suggestions in another topic to introduce new bus services providing so-called new links to connect places with other places which either currently lacks the linkage or totally no link as of today.
Now that the soon to be introduced extra bus stop along the TPE is already indirectly giving new links to the routes, but people are hesitant because they have services affecting them. An extra bus stop just does the trick. It does not involve a lot of new resources or manpower. The impact is going to be much better than introducing new bus services because they really provide many types of new linkages. Hooray! Isn't that what people want?
Mindsets are difficult to change. People won't know the option is there until you actually tell them so.
Perhaps if there is a PIS capable of making both visual and audible announcements in future, it could tell passengers of transfer options at major stops as they do in Hong Kong.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
Mindsets are difficult to change. People won't know the option is there until you actually tell them so.
Perhaps if there is a PIS capable of making both visual and audible announcements in future, it could tell passengers of transfer options at major stops as they do in Hong Kong.
HK don't provide transfer options. Only KMB tells you the fare stages when nearing the respective stops.
Can incorporate into SMRT PIS system actually.
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Originally posted by dupdup77:hi Mr dupdup77, how come the new bus-stops are built along the slip roads instead of next to TPE; why not follow the AYE bus-stops? for buses travelling up the slip road towards Yishun direction, these buses got to cut from leftmost lanes to rightmost lanes to get into TPE; while vehicles from TPE will compete to cut into the leftmost lane to Sengkang East Rd. also; travelling up & down the slip roads incur additional travel time.
Hi mr sbs 3688Y, I think will not in the long run. Firstly, the roads are expanded when they add the bus stops. Secondly, most of the cars will use the direct flyover. Only cars turning into sengkang and Punggol will use the slip roads. Thirdly, we do not expect huge crowds of people at the TPE stops. Even though there are more residential units coming up, some of the passengers may have taken bus services originating from roads inside sengkang and Punggol. They do not have to depend on the bus services at TPE bus stops all the time. For those residents living just besides or within waking distance of the TPE stops and having no cars of their own, congrats to them. It will be like an MRT to them! Cheers
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Originally posted by SBS3004X:
Open DD-friendly bus terminal at CGA with 3 stops at each of the terminals while the current terminal be used as a car park.
its terrible that the authorities are not trying to create a DD friendly and also aircon bus terminal at CGA. now most buses are suffering from loss of productivity as they csnt deploy ADDs. when the new bus-stops along TPE Punggol opens, sv858 loading is going to get worse. and we still got another Terminal 4 coming up soon. -
Originally posted by SBS3688Y:
Hi mr SBS3688Y, i believe i do not know the actual reasons. I analyse the road situations around that area and came to conclude that when they build the TPE, there is no intention of building bus stops. Only when population increases, then they decide to build. However, the exact locations of the stops were perceived that it must maximise to the convenience of most passengers and surrounding residents. As with current location near to slip roads, they decide to even incorporate current overhead bridges and extend them out.
For buses to travel from leftmost to rightmost lanes, i believe not all the services are affected. Only a few! They are left with not much of a choice other than to manuover on the road which they should have some luxury of time.
For vehicles competing to cut into sengkang east road, they are already doing it now. Not much related. Moreover, sbs 109 is the only service that goes by this road after finishing TPE.
Yes travelling up and down slip roads incurs additional time. That is one of the cons. In any way, this happens to the buses. Cars are not affected.
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CGA PTB for T1,2,3 is fixed n not goin to change, do note when CGA was conceptualised in the 80s, SG fx rate against other currencies was not as strong as now, in fact it was weak against all major currencies, with this in mind, authorities assume tourists will travel to town via cabs...
For Chek Lap Kok, due to being very far from city and N.T. areas n also pop of 7million, planning authorities created a GTC for DD deployments...
IN SG, CAG n gahmen believe public buses wld only be heavily utilised by pple wkin in airport... Bsides MRT was extended providing snother mode of transport...
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Originally posted by Acx1688:
Juz head there n see... its very very very long...
din tot of taking pix when wen past...Never mind, found a photo from Facebook page Omnibology - SG:
I'm surprised that it is on a slope... Will it cause problems for traffic exiting at the slip road?
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OT a bit
besides me, who have seen the new bus stops at TPE? Care to tell?