Loading level on buses
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315 ought to get 3 split shift DDs at least..317 can cut 1 bus.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Not true. Take 315 you will know. The loading is for Serangoon North Ave 1 and for Chomp Chomp. There are huge number of HDBs along North Ave 1 and some of them are far from YCK road. These are the people who take 315 not because it is a feeder but because it is the only convenient option.
That's why my recommendation was 116 should do Serangoon North Ave 1 as well and that will improve its loading by a great extent and all these 4 additional BSEP on 315 would not have been needed. This is a major mistake that LTA did in 116's route planning.
tbh 116 should be renamed Svc 71 then extend to Ang Mo Kio - Hougang. Would be a great relief to Sv 73 also.
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
315 ought to get 3 split shift DDs at least..317 can cut 1 bus.
Actually SBST can hand 317 to SMRT then run it as busplus like Svc 825. SBST has already handed most of their premium svcs to private operators already. Not many ppl go beyond Serangoon Gdns for 317. With some rich ppl parking their car illegally, it makes it difficult for a 12m bus to manoeuvre.. Like the recent Sv 140 and Sv 158 case.
How come no 315P?
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
315 ought to get 3 split shift DDs at least..317 can cut 1 bus.
1 A/P also, it can even get full during off peak
Maybe there are DD restrictions
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187 loadings recording.
some observations:
- 187 is used primarily for intra-town travel. quite surprised by the observation made when 187 was at Lakeside MRT.
- all of 187 original loading "recycles" by the time the bus is at Jurong Polyclinic area.
- during my observations, the highest number of people on board 187 was 68 (around 70). Clearly, a standard bus would have been sufficient.
towards the end, the recordings are mostly estimates, because there's a lot of people in the lower deck and it's quite hard to count... -
Bro,most trunk svc act like intra town like 187,even 28 also is a intra town trunk svc..But seriously have you observed the real loadings in the morning?
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never...
but I can tell you about 187 loading in the morning, because I was ever a regular commuter on 187..
in the morning, most of the loading is consistent from Boon Lay Bus Interchange through Lakeside MRT. Loading is very high. That time SMRT only have bendy bus, still no dd... 187 in the morning the bendy seats can be occupied all the way to the back... extremely high loading.... plus last time st51 junction always experience heavy traffic congestion... it's really hard to operate 187 back then....
most of that loading are primary school and secondary school students. they alight at St 51 and Ave 1. some take until JE Ave 1... after hyss/hkss/fhss, the loading is relatively low already...
actually, if the loading is very very high, it may be better to have a new bus service from Bukit Batok to Jurong West. because apparently, the JE Ave 1 area 198 also experiencing high demand. while complementing buses, can also be alternative to MRT.
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meanwhile, 180 loading is even lower. it is only high during certain periods. one reason is because there is only a few groups of people using it. in the late morning, sometimes a bendy on 180 can be relatively empty with only a few people.
whereas for 172, it is comparable to 187. high loading from BL should be until old cck road area. the rest is to cck ave 3 area. why? because there is a popular secondary school in that area...
meanwhile, 178... the loading is primarily begins/ends at Taman Jurong area, east-wards. TJ to BB....
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actually, for 179...A... 179A... the bus stop at Pioneer MRT Station can replace the Boon Lay Bus Interchange. No need to go all the way to Boon Lay.
The resources saved an be used to create SWT 179B, which connects Pioneer MRT Station to areas in Jurong West that is nearer to Pioneer MRT but has weak bus connection to it.
well, just expressing my views...
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Originally posted by JurongWestresident:
meanwhile, 180 loading is even lower. it is only high during certain periods. one reason is because there is only a few groups of people using it. in the late morning, sometimes a bendy on 180 can be relatively empty with only a few people.
whereas for 172, it is comparable to 187. high loading from BL should be until old cck road area. the rest is to cck ave 3 area. why? because there is a popular secondary school in that area...
meanwhile, 178... the loading is primarily begins/ends at Taman Jurong area, east-wards. TJ to BB....
I beg to differ for the case of 180. Every time I see 180, it's always packed... I don't know if it's because of time of observation, because I observe mostly on weekends. -
Originally posted by JurongWestresident:
187 loadings recording.
some observations:
- 187 is used primarily for intra-town travel. quite surprised by the observation made when 187 was at Lakeside MRT.
- all of 187 original loading "recycles" by the time the bus is at Jurong Polyclinic area.
- during my observations, the highest number of people on board 187 was 68 (around 70). Clearly, a standard bus would have been sufficient.
towards the end, the recordings are mostly estimates, because there's a lot of people in the lower deck and it's quite hard to count...
I suggest that you can indicate the time you took the bus... Time really matters. -
Originally posted by JurongWestresident:
never...
but I can tell you about 187 loading in the morning, because I was ever a regular commuter on 187..
in the morning, most of the loading is consistent from Boon Lay Bus Interchange through Lakeside MRT. Loading is very high. That time SMRT only have bendy bus, still no dd... 187 in the morning the bendy seats can be occupied all the way to the back... extremely high loading.... plus last time st51 junction always experience heavy traffic congestion... it's really hard to operate 187 back then....
most of that loading are primary school and secondary school students. they alight at St 51 and Ave 1. some take until JE Ave 1... after hyss/hkss/fhss, the loading is relatively low already...
actually, if the loading is very very high, it may be better to have a new bus service from Bukit Batok to Jurong West. because apparently, the JE Ave 1 area 198 also experiencing high demand. while complementing buses, can also be alternative to MRT.
You already have sv 157, 174, 187 from Bukit Batok to Jurong West. And 157 does help in relieving load on 187 and 198. -
Originally posted by array88:
I suggest that you can indicate the time you took the bus... Time really matters.that bus I took departed Boon Lay Bus Interchange at 1700hrs yesterday.
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So youre sure that 187 doesnt need any high capacity buses at all?Damm sure?
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Originally posted by SBS5010P:
tbh 116 should be renamed Svc 71 then extend to Ang Mo Kio - Hougang. Would be a great relief to Sv 73 also.
73 also dont have much demand la.. it just does okay with current fleet... hence no add from sbst or bsep as well..
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Originally posted by JurongWestresident:
187 loadings recording.
some observations:
- 187 is used primarily for intra-town travel. quite surprised by the observation made when 187 was at Lakeside MRT.
- all of 187 original loading "recycles" by the time the bus is at Jurong Polyclinic area.
- during my observations, the highest number of people on board 187 was 68 (around 70). Clearly, a standard bus would have been sufficient.
towards the end, the recordings are mostly estimates, because there's a lot of people in the lower deck and it's quite hard to count...You have just seen part of the route. Also 68 pax not bad already. If it were SD already people will cram. This service will again get super crowded near Bukit Batok area towards BPJ area.
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Originally posted by JurongWestresident:
meanwhile, 180 loading is even lower. it is only high during certain periods. one reason is because there is only a few groups of people using it. in the late morning, sometimes a bendy on 180 can be relatively empty with only a few people.
whereas for 172, it is comparable to 187. high loading from BL should be until old cck road area. the rest is to cck ave 3 area. why? because there is a popular secondary school in that area...
meanwhile, 178... the loading is primarily begins/ends at Taman Jurong area, east-wards. TJ to BB....
My suggestion is when you do loading analysis to try and take at least 75-80% of the route to know why a high capacity bus is deployed. 180 has crazy loading during peak hours. It also depends on where you see.
172 loading also can be very high depending on timings and long distance travelers
178 has low loading comparatively.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
My suggestion is when you do loading analysis to try and take at least 75-80% of the route to know why a high capacity bus is deployed. 180 has crazy loading during peak hours. It also depends on where you see.
172 loading also can be very high depending on timings and long distance travelers
178 has low loading comparatively.
He remind me of a professor that say Sg isnt suitable for DDs
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
He remind me of a professor that say Sg isnt suitable for DDs
ehh.... in terms of beliefs, no.
shall not elaborate, because that's not the style here.
just wanna say, 2 DDs together the capacity is actually larger than ...
ok.. I forgot... nvm... i elaborate...
- Single Deck [12m] - licensed capacity is around 80 - allowed capacity (95%): 76
- Double Decker [12m] - licensed capacity is around 120 - allowed capacity (95%): 114
- Articulated [18m] - licensed capacity is around 130 - allowed capacity (95%): 123
some couple combinations I observed:- 2 SDs [24m]: total is 152 (density: 6.33/m)*
- 1 SD + 1DD [24m]: total is 190 (density: 7.92/m)*
- 2 DDs [24m]: total is 228 (density: 9.5/m)*
- 2 ABs [36m]: total is 246^ (density: 6.83/m)*
^yesterday when I was at Bukit Batok, I in my own eyes saw two articulated buses come together on the same service.*density is I anyhow derive de... no mass nor volume... but rather, it's how many people per metre.okay, back to topic... let me continue what I wanted to say just now...while 2 ABs together carry the highest number of people, if per metre, this couple carries less people than 1SD+1DD couple and 2 DDs couple.the 2 DDs couple carries the highest number of people per metre.In a high density island like Singapore, to optimise space use, we need Double Decker buses and Rapid Transit Systems (RTS).To reduce the time spent at bus stops and bus interchange alighting bays, what we can do is to install a third door at Double Decker buses.Installing a third door may reduce the number of seats and as a result less people are able to be in the Double Decker bus. Nonetheless, even if the capacity is reduced by 10 (just an estimate for easy calculation) to 104, density of two such DDs is (208/24) 8.67/m, which is still higher than the other combinations.shall conclude my reply here, since this is not an essay. anyway also no format, intro, climax, etc... how is this an essay?-end- -
Originally posted by JurongWestresident:
ehh.... in terms of beliefs, no.
shall not elaborate, because that's not the style here.
just wanna say, 2 DDs together the capacity is actually larger than ...
ok.. I forgot... nvm... i elaborate...
- Single Deck [12m] - licensed capacity is around 80 - allowed capacity (95%): 76
- Double Decker [12m] - licensed capacity is around 120 - allowed capacity (95%): 114
- Articulated [18m] - licensed capacity is around 130 - allowed capacity (95%): 123
some couple combinations I observed:- 2 SDs [24m]: total is 152 (density: 6.33/m)*
- 1 SD + 1DD [24m]: total is 190 (density: 7.92/m)*
- 2 DDs [24m]: total is 228 (density: 9.5/m)*
- 2 ABs [36m]: total is 246^ (density: 6.83/m)*
^yesterday when I was at Bukit Batok, I in my own eyes saw two articulated buses come together on the same service.*density is I anyhow derive de... no mass nor volume... but rather, it's how many people per metre.okay, back to topic... let me continue what I wanted to say just now...while 2 ABs together carry the highest number of people, if per metre, this couple carries less people than 1SD+1DD couple and 2 DDs couple.the 2 DDs couple carries the highest number of people per metre.In a high density island like Singapore, to optimise space use, we need Double Decker buses and Rapid Transit Systems (RTS).To reduce the time spent at bus stops and bus interchange alighting bays, what we can do is to install a third door at Double Decker buses.Installing a third door may reduce the number of seats and as a result less people are able to be in the Double Decker bus. Nonetheless, even if the capacity is reduced by 10 (just an estimate for easy calculation) to 104, density of two such DDs is (208/24) 8.67/m, which is still higher than the other combinations.shall conclude my reply here, since this is not an essay. anyway also no format, intro, climax, etc... how is this an essay?-end-The problem is where are you going to install the third door?
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Wan to calculate density also calculate properly mah Esp for DD. No need calculate length of upper deck??
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Originally posted by array88:
The problem is where are you going to install the third door?
now have one at the front and one at the middle, so if want install third door, it's at the back.
the concern is really how much the capacity will be affected should we have a third door. apparently, third door also comes with second staircase...
apparently three door two staircase dd is still rare in the world... but based on the new london routemaster, prescribed capacity is only 80. which means maximum (95%) it can carry only 76... the length is 11.23m, but really, 77cm does not make any difference, right?
say it is 12m and it carries 76 people.. "density" would be 6.33/m. that would be the same as two Single Deck buses coupled together... might as well couple two Single Deck buses, right? somemore two SDs would have four doors, one more door for alighting.. also better, right?
so maybe having three doors and two staircase is not a good idea after all....
even if only three doors, ... okay... maybe if only have the three doors, no second staircase, then only will it be better than the current DD...
just my two cents worth.
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Loading on sv 386 @ 07.50am from Punggol Interchange Friday AM.
Punggol Interchange -- 02
Punggol Central -- 02 (0/0), 00 (-2/0)
Edgefield Plains -- 00 (0/0), 04 (0/4)
Punggol Dr -- 06 (0/2)
Edgedale Plains -- 06 (0/0), 06 (-2/2)
Punggol Field -- 05 (-3/2)
Punggol East -- 06 (-1/2)
Punggol Central -- 06 (0/0)
Edgedale Plains -- 09 (0/3)
Punggol Dr -- 09 (-2/2)
Edgefield Plains -- 27 (0/18), 31 (0/4) * peak loading
Punggol Cental -- 30 (-6/5), 28 (-3/0)
* peak loading in direction towards Punggol East = 06 pax
* peak loading in direction towards Punggol Int = 31 pax
>> Looking at loading trend, really wonder if the extension of 386 is further loss making. Will monitor more closely for PM as well.
>> 386 to Edgefield Plains makes sense due to the Waterway HDBs, but extension to Punggol east just to connect to mall is for sure loss making looking at both direction loading.
>> There are stops along Punggol Central and Edgefield Plains when bus went with NO (00) pax on board.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Loading on sv 386 @ 07.50am from Punggol Interchange
Punggol Interchange -- 02
Punggol Central -- 02 (0/0), 00 (-2/0)
Edgefield Plains -- 00 (0/0), 04 (0/4)
Punggol Dr -- 06 (0/2)
Edgedale Plains -- 06 (0/0), 06 (-2/2)
Punggol Field -- 05 (-3/2)
Punggol East -- 06 (-1/2)
Punggol Central -- 06 (0/0)
Edgedale Plains -- 09 (0/3)
Punggol Dr -- 09 (-2/2)
Edgefield Plains -- 27 (0/18), 31 (0/4) * peak loading
Punggol Cental -- 30 (-6/5), 28 (-3/0)
* peak loading in direction towards Punggol East = 06 pax
* peak loading in direction towards Punggol Int = 31 pax
>> Looking at loading trend, really wonder if the extension of 386 is further loss making. Will monitor more closely for PM as well.
>> 386 to Edgefield Plains makes sense due to the Waterway HDBs, but extension to Punggol east just to connect to mall is for sure loss making looking at both direction loading.
>> There are stops along Punggol Central and Edgefield Plains when bus went with NO (00) pax on board.
If this was recorded today at 7:50am, it is obvious the loading was low. On a Sunday morning, many people are still sleeping.
For the most accurate recordings, the best time to record loadings of buses is during peak hours, between Monday and Thursday. That is usually when buses experience the highest loadings and usually, the recordings best represent travel patterns and which bus stops are the most utilised.