Originally posted by array88:I wonder, are Ngee Ann and SIM students (together with other pax at Clementi Rd) really satisfied with buses to Clementi MRT? Or is the demand to Dover MRT actually higher?
Today, at 5.30pm or so, I was on 154 at Clementi Rd towards Clementi MRT. There was a 184 bendy in front so the 154 DD that I was taking did not receive that much loading at Ngee Ann / SIM (although it did get full upper deck in the end). What's the most surprising is that, a 74 DD was following my 154, and at almost every stop, it received a HUGE amount of pax.
Like at Ngee Ann and SIM, 5-10 pax each took 154 while 50-60 pax took 74... There were people who deliberately waited for 74, and there were also people who was originally ready to board 154, but switch to 74 after seeing it. And this is when a 184 bendy had already called at the stops <1min ago.
In the end (at somewhere after Holland Rd), the 74 DD skipped one bus stop and overtook 154, even when there were 10+ pax waiting at the bus stop. Guess it's because the 74 was already packed to the door.
So the question is, is the demand over there more towards Clementi MRT or Dover MRT? Maybe many people actually want to go to/from Dover MRT, but are forced to use Clementi MRT (especially in AM) because of poor frequency on 74, versus 3 services with good frequency and capacity from Clementi.
74 by no means has poor frequency, but yes when you have a 52, 154, 184... people are okay to travel one more stop and alight at Clementi instead... makes a difference of 03 minutes only.
In PM definitely if sv 74 comes and has space, people will prefer 74 to Dover than Clementi given that the traffic towards Clementi in PM can be quite high. But also note 74 buses come almost empty to Ngee Ann... so it is almost like a SWT starting from Ngee Ann/SIM.
btw DDs on 102 Having good loading ?
Originally posted by Lsk138:btw DDs on 102 Having good loading ?
To be frank its not that great for the time being,Peak hours 3/4 full at the lower deck while upper deck still plenty of room..Citaros also no standees even though full seated during peaks.
Loading observation on 243W at Boon Lay Interchange Mon 02/November.
18.18 - 78p (DD)
18.21 - 39p (SD)
18.22 - 11p (SD)
18.26 - 50p (SD)
18.30 - 64p (DD)
18.32 - 50p (DD)
18.36 - 55p (DD)
18.39 - 30p (DD)
18.41 - 24p (SD)
18.45 - 44p (DD)
18.49 - 51p (DD)
* The frequency on 243W is way too awesome. There was a bus consistently every 02-04 mins. Maximum waiting time for the peak hour that I observed was 04 mins only.
Number of buses in loading range:
+70 = 01
60 - 70 = 01
50 - 60 = 04
30 - 50 = 03
< 30 = 02
Total buses observed = 11
** This kind of shows that now with so many buses added, if 243W is full fleet SD... it will still be able to cater to the load. To add to it, 258 will also be introduced.
Loading observation on 199 at Boon Lay Interchange
18.19 - 43p
18.27 - 50p
18.37 - 55p
* Frequency is around 10 mins... all 3 buses observed were DDs... Understandable that loading is not too high as at this time the loading would be from NTU to Boon Lay.
Loading observation on 257 at Boon Lay Interchange
18.20 - 12p
18.23 - 01p
18.35 - 17p
18.43 - 06p
** Extremely shocking. All buses got <20 pax. I always thought 257 had better loading to st 61/62. Also it looks like 243W loading also is more after st 62. If it was at st 62, then people could have taken 257 also or maybe were stuck in 243W queue. No idea but loading seems really bad on 257 between Boon Lay and Pioneer.
Loading on 961 rigid from North Bridge Rd towards Woodlands at 7.13pm
(Note: The following was done on Tuesday, 3 November. )
Loading on 868 second trip from Bt Batok West Ave 3
Bt Batok West Ave 3 - [+1] 49?
Bt Batok West Ave 6 - [+3~4?] 53, [+8] 61
Bt Batok Ave 1 - [+7] 68
Jurong East Ctrl - [+6] 74
(502 SD entered Toh Guan with only 3-4 pax standing)
Toh Guan Rd - [-1+11?] 84 (May have more pax alighting and less pax boarding actually), [+12] 96 (Still have 15 pax at bus stop)
Jurong Town Hall Rd - [-3+2?] 95
Originally posted by array88:(Note: The following was done on Tuesday, 3 November. )
Loading on 868 second trip from Bt Batok West Ave 3
Bt Batok West Ave 3 - [+1] 49?
Bt Batok West Ave 6 - [+3~4?] 53, [+8] 61
Bt Batok Ave 1 - [+7] 68
Jurong East Ctrl - [+6] 74
(502 SD entered Toh Guan with only 3-4 pax standing)
Toh Guan Rd - [-1+11?] 84 (May have more pax alighting and less pax boarding actually), [+12] 96 (Still have 15 pax at bus stop)
Jurong Town Hall Rd - [-3+2?] 95
So 868 definitely warrants the 2 DDs... so you got to sit in the brand new MAN A95 :)
Originally posted by array88:I wonder, are Ngee Ann and SIM students (together with other pax at Clementi Rd) really satisfied with buses to Clementi MRT? Or is the demand to Dover MRT actually higher?
Today, at 5.30pm or so, I was on 154 at Clementi Rd towards Clementi MRT. There was a 184 bendy in front so the 154 DD that I was taking did not receive that much loading at Ngee Ann / SIM (although it did get full upper deck in the end). What's the most surprising is that, a 74 DD was following my 154, and at almost every stop, it received a HUGE amount of pax.
Like at Ngee Ann and SIM, 5-10 pax each took 154 while 50-60 pax took 74... There were people who deliberately waited for 74, and there were also people who was originally ready to board 154, but switch to 74 after seeing it. And this is when a 184 bendy had already called at the stops <1min ago.
In the end (at somewhere after Holland Rd), the 74 DD skipped one bus stop and overtook 154, even when there were 10+ pax waiting at the bus stop. Guess it's because the 74 was already packed to the door.
So the question is, is the demand over there more towards Clementi MRT or Dover MRT? Maybe many people actually want to go to/from Dover MRT, but are forced to use Clementi MRT (especially in AM) because of poor frequency on 74, versus 3 services with good frequency and capacity from Clementi.
Firstly...
I seldom see NP/SIM Students alighting at Dover to squeeze with SP students. Maybe they are travelling towards Buona Vista(not MRT but those stops inbetween).
Secondly..
Base on what I've seen..NP/SIM students would take 184 to and from Clementi MRT.
Originally posted by array88:Loading on 961 rigid from North Bridge Rd towards Woodlands at 7.13pm
(The bus in front was a DD which should be less than 8 mins in front. I wrongly thought this duty was a DD, so I rushed here to take 961, only to know that it wasn't. Nevertheless it's loading can be used to estimate the loading on previous DD)
North Bridge Rd - [-2+2] 14, [+3] 17South Bridge Rd - [-1+1] 17Upp Cross St - [-4+3] 16New Bridge Rd - [-2+25] 39 (next bus in 25 mins), [-1+2] 40, [+6] 46 (svc 75 at the junction towards Bt Panjang packed to the door), [-1+12] 57Kg Bahru Rd - 57Jln Bt Merah - [-7+3] 53, [-9] 44, [-11+5] 38 (855 in front), [-2] 36, [-1+2] 37 (opposite 961 had 7-8 standees), [-8+6] 35, [-4+2] 37, [-8+1] 30, [-3+7] 34 (opposite 961 fully seated)Queensway - [-3+4] 35, [-1] 34, [-2] 32, [-2+1] 31, [+1] 32, [-1] 31, [-1] 30Farrer Rd - 30 (overtook 855, the 855 rigid had 1-2 standees), [-1] 29, [-3] 26 (Farrer Rd MRT), 26Bt Timah Rd - 26, [-1+1] 26, 26, 26, 26, 26, [+4] 30, 30, [-1] 29 (this person boarded at Sixth Ave Ctr), [-1] 28, [+1] 29, 29Upp Bt Timah Rd - [-1+8] 36, [-2+5] 39, [-2] 37, 37 (two 75 buses bunched up towards Bt Panjang both almost empty), [-2] 35, 35, [-1+1] 35, 35, [+3] 38, [+2] 40, [+3] 43, 43, 43, 43Woodlands Rd - [-5] 38, [-4] 34, 34, 34, [-2] 32, [-4+1] 29, 29, 29, [-3+13] 39, 39, 39, [-2] 37, 37, 37, [-5] 32 (Kranji MRT) (most of them boarded at opp Mandai Ind Est, the stop with -3+13)Woodlands Ave 3 - [+3] 35, 35, [-8] 27 (Marsiling MRT), 27, [+1] 28(178 departing Woodlands Int packed to the door)(Next 961 reached Woodlands Int with 20+ standees)- Main loading is from New Bridge Rd to Jln Bukit Merah- There could have been high loading from Bukit Merah to Queensway / Upp Bukit Timah (or even Woodlands?); in fact, this time quite a lot of pax boarded at Bukit Merah and many travelled all the way to Upp Bt Timah / Bukit Panjang. For this particular trip, it could be that it has missed the timing, or the 855 in front has taken 961's loading.- Also helps in bringing some random shoppers at Beauty World area to Upp Bt Timah / Bt Panjang, and bringing some Indian workers from Upp Bt Timah to their dorms and from the dorms to Kranji/Marsiling/Woodlands MRT- I think this justifies the DD timing. Its main goal is to fetch the pax from Chinatown to Bukit Merah (although there's 147).- On the other hand, 75's loading very funny... Packed to the door at Outram Rd, yet become almost empty at Upp Bt Timah?
If 961 main loading is between Chinatown and Bukit Merah, then it does not warrant DDs... as you have 147 with a very good frequency to cover this stretch. On the return leg you also have 197 as well.
Originally posted by TIB429E:Firstly...
I seldom see NP/SIM Students alighting at Dover to squeeze with SP students. Maybe they are travelling towards Buona Vista(not MRT but those stops inbetween).
Secondly..
Base on what I've seen..NP/SIM students would take 184 to and from Clementi MRT.
Not true at all... Read my comments above.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:74 by no means has poor frequency, but yes when you have a 52, 154, 184... people are okay to travel one more stop and alight at Clementi instead... makes a difference of 03 minutes only.
In PM definitely if sv 74 comes and has space, people will prefer 74 to Dover than Clementi given that the traffic towards Clementi in PM can be quite high. But also note 74 buses come almost empty to Ngee Ann... so it is almost like a SWT starting from Ngee Ann/SIM.
As a former ngee Ann student... I agree on your point 1.
As for point 2, it does depend on which service come first. But Majority will go to Clementi instead of Dover.
As for evening peak towards Bukit Timah, there will always be a downroute bus at the Ngee Ann Bus Stop (if nt is from SIM bus stop but downroute from Ngee Ann). Hougang students prefer taking this bus rather than 151.
Originally posted by TIB429E:Firstly...
I seldom see NP/SIM Students alighting at Dover to squeeze with SP students. Maybe they are travelling towards Buona Vista(not MRT but those stops inbetween).
Secondly..
Base on what I've seen..NP/SIM students would take 184 to and from Clementi MRT.
Well.... There was once I took 74 from Dover to Bukit Timah during PM peak. An SD came and more than 100 pax were trying to board... Obviously people couldn't board and I had to wait for the next DD which also got full upper decker. The bus became empty at SIM.
There are also a few cases where I wait for buses at Clementi Rd towards Bukit Timah, and from my experience, 74 is always harder to board than 154.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Loading observation on 243W at Boon Lay Interchange Mon 02/November.
18.18 - 78p (DD)
18.21 - 39p (SD)
18.22 - 11p (SD)
18.26 - 50p (SD)
18.30 - 64p (DD)
18.32 - 50p (DD)
18.36 - 55p (DD)
18.39 - 30p (DD)
18.41 - 24p (SD)
18.45 - 44p (DD)
18.49 - 51p (DD)
* The frequency on 243W is way too awesome. There was a bus consistently every 02-04 mins. Maximum waiting time for the peak hour that I observed was 04 mins only.
Number of buses in loading range:
+70 = 01
60 - 70 = 01
50 - 60 = 04
30 - 50 = 03
< 30 = 02
Total buses observed = 11
** This kind of shows that now with so many buses added, if 243W is full fleet SD... it will still be able to cater to the load. To add to it, 258 will also be introduced.
from some user here i think jurongwestresident keep complain about 243 so crowded. from ur observation look okay to me. 257 load is even more shock sia.
Originally posted by proudtobeme:from some user here i think jurongwestresident keep complain about 243 so crowded. from ur observation look okay to me. 257 load is even more shock sia.
That's because this observation was done at the wrong hour of the day. Anyway, those who also use Boon Lay Bus Interchange would know what I mean. It's usually around 7-8pm, where there would be very long queues for bus services 243G, 243W, 241, etcetera. Anyway, that's also when frequency is lower. Maybe that's why.
Originally posted by array88:
Well.... There was once I took 74 from Dover to Bukit Timah during PM peak. An SD came and more than 100 pax were trying to board... Obviously people couldn't board and I had to wait for the next DD which also got full upper decker. The bus became empty at SIM.There are also a few cases where I wait for buses at Clementi Rd towards Bukit Timah, and from my experience, 74 is always harder to board than 154.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Yup, several occasion a Strider/DM3500 (at that time) came and not many are able to board. That is why the DDs/another SD are either the downroute from SIM/NP bus stop after the first bus left or bunching happens. That's how Svc 74 is unique for the students along this sector.
As for 154, if there is no buses (74/151) at the bus stop, students who are heading to Bukit Timah Rd just board the 154 and alight at Bef Rifle Range Rd bus stop. This is where the load gets heavy.
Thus, you can conclude that Svc 74 is a cash-cow service for SBS Transit though by MRT is faster but Svc 74 imo is a legend.
Originally posted by jurongresident:
That's because this observation was done at the wrong hour of the day. Anyway, those who also use Boon Lay Bus Interchange would know what I mean. It's usually around 7-8pm, where there would be very long queues for bus services 243G, 243W, 241, etcetera. Anyway, that's also when frequency is lower. Maybe that's why.
oh. i wud have thought 6-7pm would be high load also. if that case then bus should start evening shift one hr late and continue for 7-8pm peak time. so then bus can reduce already. even 291, 293 case same. now bus leave int with 40-55 peop even dd. so many bus. and bet 4-5pm bus depart with 20-25 peop. bet 5-6pm bet 30-50 peop. 6-7pm is 40-55 peop. 7-8pm is also 40-50 peop.
334's loading very high, more than 88 during peak hours
Originally posted by jurongresident:
That's because this observation was done at the wrong hour of the day. Anyway, those who also use Boon Lay Bus Interchange would know what I mean. It's usually around 7-8pm, where there would be very long queues for bus services 243G, 243W, 241, etcetera. Anyway, that's also when frequency is lower. Maybe that's why.
Agree. Last time when I took 181 at 8pm it was still packed to the door (SD) with 20-30 pax in queue... I think peak for feeder services starts later than trunk services as people will need to travel from CBD etc to the respective bus interchanges/MRT first.
Originally posted by array88:Agree. Last time when I took 181 at 8pm it was still packed to the door (SD) with 20-30 pax in queue... I think peak for feeder services starts later than trunk services as people will need to travel from CBD etc to the respective bus interchanges/MRT first.
By the way 181 loading between 6-7pm also has every bus getting 80-100 pax... Since it is not qualified as a feeder.. LTA hasn't randomly added buses... This is in the same time period when I observed 243W... and you see the loading.
Remember that PM peak for feeders is longer... Starts at 5.45pm and extends upto 8pm... depending on where people's work place is...
972 deserves the 27 DDs and 190 needs more DDs.
Here is the observation from Thu 05/Nov from Whitley road bus stop. The way I analyzed is using the app after the bus has left Whitley road bus stop.
18.44 - 190 - DD (yellow)
18.46 - 972 - DD (green)
18.48 - 190 - SD (red)
18.51 - 972 - DD (yellow)
18.54 - 190 - DD (yellow)
18.54 - 190 - BD (yellow)
18.55 - 700 - SD (yellow)
18.58 - 190 - DD (yellow)
19.01 - 972 - DD (yellow)
19.01 - 972 - DD (yellow)
19.05 - 700 - SD (yellow)
19.07 - 190 - DD (yellow)
19.07 - 190 - DD (yellow)
19.11 - 972 - DD (yellow)
19.11 - 972 - DD (red)
19.11 - 190 - SD (red)
19.12 - 700 - SD (yellow)
19.17 - 190 - DD (red)
19.17 - 190 - SD (red)
19.19 - 972 - DD (yellow)
19.23 - 700 - SD (yellow)
19.25 - 972 - DD (yellow)
19.25 - 190 - SD (red)
19.29 - 190 - DD (red)
* In a span of 45 mins, following is the observation:
(190) - (12 buses) - (frequency 03-04 mins) - (7 DDs, 1 BD, 4 SDs) - (6R, 6Y, 0G)
(700) - (04 buses) - (frequency 10 mins) - (4 SDs) - (0R, 4Y, 0G)
(972) - (08 buses) - (frequency 05-06 mins) - (8 DDs) - (1R, 6Y, 1G)
* If you see apart from 1 bus on 972 no other bus had green after departing Whitley road bus stop. Also note the fantastic frequency. There is a service every 01-02 mins to BPJ town from Whitley, and the observations does not include 960.
* No wonder LTA added another 3 DDs to 972
* Now SMRT needs to convert SD->DD because clearly every SD is packed to door.
* What also amuses me is that people know there will be a bus behind, mostly a DD and still are ready to cramp into a SD
* When 2 buses arrive, people distribute evenly among 2 buses to board. In one instance for 972 the latter bus got so full because a lot of people alighted from 153/154 and ran to 972 to board. So bus in back did not have any more space.
* Also note, my observation may be at the most prime time; at other times buses may not have such high loading.
* sv 700 had lot of space on every bus. I think loading would be around 45-55 pax. Clearly, 972 has taken away 700's loading.
In my opinion, this is how I think the loading would be like on bus service 258:
For the section between Pioneer MRT Station and Joo Koon Bus Interchange, it is likely that throughout the day, the loading is very low - usually zero, sometimes a handful.
For the section between Pioneer MRT Station and Jurong West Street 82, there should be around forty people taking it during peak hours. During non-peak hours, this number may be as low as... less than five. The connection of 258 to Pioneer MRT Station may encourage some of the people to change to take 258.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:So 868 definitely warrants the 2 DDs... so you got to sit in the brand new MAN A95 :)
868 in fact need another trip for both Am/Pm trips.A22 will do,1st trip DD,2nd trip DD last trip SD.
171's loading to high. Need DDs (Like 77, 173 and 970)