Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr busanalyser, objective is totally different. Sbs 324 main purpose is to connect those roads with new HDB estates in outskirts of Hougang and condos in upper serangoon road to Hougang Mrt. Timing of bus service sbs 324 is as late as 12.30am after midnight primarily to serve residents.
Sbs 102 main objective is to provide another bus service for residents of sengkang west to link up to sengkang and buangkok mrt. Another main purpose is to extend to seletar aerospace park in future once it is getting more developed. The timing is only up to 11.30pm.
And of course, if you keep linking loadings to new bus services (which is fine to me), you will start to face dilemma along the way. Cheers. Thanks.
I dont agree. 102 can do same route as 324, both essentially serve the same HDBs from Hougang MRT. 102 is needed, 324 is redundand and a luxury.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:I dont agree. 102 can do same route as 324, both essentially serve the same HDBs from Hougang MRT. 102 is needed, 324 is redundand and a luxury.
Hi mr busanalyser, there is another major difference. One is a trunk service and one is a feeder service. Fare calculation is a difference.
Another difference is feeder services do later timing than trunk service. Not feasible to operate sbs 102 until way after midnight. However, need to provide sbs 324 way until after 12.30am. Cheers. Thanks.
Originally posted by SBS2652G:becos in this way, 76 and 134 considered 2 BSEP services. faster clear quota
so you shortened sv76 and call it as BSEP service with fleet reduction?
i also didnt see sv189 listed as BSEP service... while sv99 should be consider as BSEP service with its extension, and BSEP fleet add...
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr busanalyser, there is another major difference. One is a trunk service and one is a feeder service. Fare calculation is a difference.
Another difference is feeder services do later timing than trunk service. Not feasible to operate sbs 102 until way after midnight. However, need to provide sbs 324 way until after 12.30am. Cheers. Thanks.
Those are just details. 102 can provide until later, why not. It acts as a feeder within Buangkok and Sengkang as well. 102 does the job of 3 feeder services. Can you let me know what is the fare difference between 102 to Upper Serangoon and 324 to Upper Serangoon? That should answer your question.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Those are just details. 102 can provide until later, why not. It acts as a feeder within Buangkok and Sengkang as well. 102 does the job of 3 feeder services. Can you let me know what is the fare difference between 102 to Upper Serangoon and 324 to Upper Serangoon? That should answer your question.
Haha
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Those are just details. 102 can provide until later, why not. It acts as a feeder within Buangkok and Sengkang as well. 102 does the job of 3 feeder services. Can you let me know what is the fare difference between 102 to Upper Serangoon and 324 to Upper Serangoon? That should answer your question.
Hi mr busanalyser, I think it through but your logic is not too correct. You want sbs 102 extend until 12.30am to cover for sbs 324. But isn't that waste of resources for the extended timing which is contradictory to what you always advocate to save resources? Note sbs 102 needs run full route and back too instead of a much shorter journey.
We must also think why it was made like this.There is also a difference between feeder and trunk service category. In future, feeder must be max 10 min frequency and trunk service will be max 15 min category under LTA rules. This will make a major difference already. Routes such as bringing residents to nearest MRT like sbs 324 is considered feeder to them. So it must be done below 10 min. After it is changed to a so-called sub-con system, sub-con performance will come in. Tender price is fixed. So bus companies will not look at loading. More important is LTA criteria of maintaining fruitful connection for feeder and trunk services. In this case, the logic of sbs 102 (trunk) and sbs 324 (feeder) will come in. Cheers. Thanks.
Originally posted by SBS2652G:becos in this way, 76 and 134 considered 2 BSEP services. faster clear quota
Hi mr SBS2652G, faster clear quota? No la. The quota is just an imaginary number. Previously, it was 40. Revised to 80 a few years later. They will just watch out the progress and introduced new bus routes for those new towns and those badly connected areas. The BSEP scheme is just to deploy out the buses. Cheers. Thanks.
Originally posted by lemon1974:so you shortened sv76 and call it as BSEP service with fleet reduction?
i also didnt see sv189 listed as BSEP service... while sv99 should be consider as BSEP service with its extension, and BSEP fleet add...
You do have 301 and 983 (in April 2015 before extension) counted as TWO services... And when 983 got extended to Bukit Panjang it is counted as a "New service" AGAIN.
Probably
during 189 era LTA did not realise that it cannot achieve its promised 80 services. So from now on, anything can happen.
I also don't hope that 76 can become a "new" service when all it experiences is route being cut short and fleet being reduced. But unfortunately there are hints that 76 will be a "New BSEP Service". Unless a brand new service will be launched from Eunos, in which case I will be totally surprised.
(Sorry for the terrible formatting, was posting on my phone)
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr busanalyser, I think it through but your logic is not too correct. You want sbs 102 extend until 12.30am to cover for sbs 324. But isn't that waste of resources for the extended timing which is contradictory to what you always advocate to save resources? Note sbs 102 needs run full route and back too instead of a much shorter journey.
We must also think why it was made like this.There is also a difference between feeder and trunk service category. In future, feeder must be max 10 min frequency and trunk service will be max 15 min category under LTA rules. This will make a major difference already. Routes such as bringing residents to nearest MRT like sbs 324 is considered feeder to them. So it must be done below 10 min. After it is changed to a so-called sub-con system, sub-con performance will come in. Tender price is fixed. So bus companies will not look at loading. More important is LTA criteria of maintaining fruitful connection for feeder and trunk services. In this case, the logic of sbs 102 (trunk) and sbs 324 (feeder) will come in. Cheers. Thanks.
Interesting logic.
So for one hour at midnight when the frequency is low and you anyway don't need much resources/buses, you would rather have another service run full day??? LOL
Also don't the Sengkang West and Buangkok residents for whom 102 works as a trunk deserve a service until late night???
Since you ignored my earlier question, let me answer for you. For short route, fare doesn't make a difference.
It was LTA's wrong planning and mistake at that point in time. Cannot take it down immediately, but maybe few years down the line will take it out just like they did for 275 feeder, and instead introduce a M service with 1 bus operating during peak loading hour.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Interesting logic.
So for one hour at midnight when the frequency is low and you anyway don't need much resources/buses, you would rather have another service run full day??? LOL
Also don't the Sengkang West and Buangkok residents for whom 102 works as a trunk deserve a service until late night???
Since you ignored my earlier question, let me answer for you. For short route, fare doesn't make a difference.
It was LTA's wrong planning and mistake at that point in time. Cannot take it down immediately, but maybe few years down the line will take it out just like they did for 275 feeder, and instead introduce a M service with 1 bus operating during peak loading hour.
Hi mr busanalyser, there is no need to get so worked up la. In this forum, it is merely chit chai. Everybody talks in a certain manner. To you it is wrong planning, to them it is not. Just different perspectives at looking at issues. There is no winners or losers in this forum. Cheers.
Bus 187 loading observations from 12:30pm to 1:25pm at Blk 347 bus stop:
The average headway is about 06 to 10mins towards BNL where each MAN A22 gets about 40-45 pax on average with some seats empty. According to the LTA app, each 187 bus loading is yellow (indicating standing available, with the exception of 3559X), 187 loading seems decent and MAN A22 is sufficient for the loading at this timing towards BNL.
The opposite direction 187 have about 40-50pax each from 1pm onwards, due to the loading for after school hours, all the buses heading towards WDL are all A22s, I did not spot any bendies.
I boarded 3559X at 1:26pm and at the next bus stop (Jurong Polyclinic), quite a number of students boarded the bus. By the time it reaches the end of the Avenue 1 stretch (before turning to Lakeside MRT), the upper deck have about 10-12 people from 25-30 at the Jurong Polyclinic stop.
What really surprised me is that most of remaining passangers on the upper deck alighted at BNL, as I always thought 157/198 is the preferred choice from Ave 1 to BNL due to better frequencies and having more HC buses as the route length is about the same.
187's AM off peak loading seems decent for the BNL to Ave 1 stretch with its current frequency though I feel that it might be better if they could convert some of the A22 slots to bendy slots (Conversion is 2 A22 to 1 Bendy, alternate about 2 A22s to 1 bendy or DD)
From Avenue 1, personally, I would prefer to take 198 or 157 to BNL as both services operates a number of DDs which gives me a better chance to get a seat (usually I'll take 198), as compared to 187 which operates on mostly A22.
SBS6581 (sv141) turning out to serangoon road at around 650pm with all seat taken plus around 20 standees.
1x VO3x on sv133 n 1 x 145 KUB with standee at entrance door at lavender street at around 655 pm. 4 mins later 1 x 133 kub n 1x 145 kub arrived same bus stop with all seat Taken plus around 8-10 standees.
42's abysmal loading from Kembangan stn to Opera Estate/Frankel
Departure from opp Kembangan Stn @ 1831 (frequency 17 mins) on 25/2/16.
Jln Kembangan (15), Sims Av East (-4,+1). Fidelio St (-3)(-3,+1)(-2)(0)(+8)(0), Siglap Rd (-2), Siglap Dr (-1)(-1), Frankel Av (0). Total journey time - 15 mins
Am peak had 33 pax.
There you go DD from Opera/Frankel to Kembangan MRT > DD from Kembangan MRT to Opera/Frankel. Proves my point. Nobody likes the loop in & out of Opera Estate except Opera Estate residents.
Anyone analysed 256 before?
Anyone recce 256 loadings?From my view single decker also not full despite its routings..Maybe can convert 2 DDs to SDs for the time being?
Mr Busanalyzer,have you spot 53M loadings?
Originally posted by carbikebus:Anyone recce 256 loadings?From my view single decker also not full despite its routings..Maybe can convert 2 DDs to SDs for the time being?
Yes. see page 74 & 77.
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr busanalyser, there is no need to get so worked up la. In this forum, it is merely chit chai. Everybody talks in a certain manner. To you it is wrong planning, to them it is not. Just different perspectives at looking at issues. There is no winners or losers in this forum. Cheers.
Not getting worked up la. You are spot on that we all are here to share our opinion, feedback and perspective. Hence, you should accept others opinions instead of always saying this cannot be done and that. You are well aware how many people you have gotten into fight over here because you reject others' opinions by stating a very rigid stance.
You did the same saying M routes always need to start from the starting point of a service. Then services like 53M were introduced. There are no losers/winners here. Let's accept others opinions. My suggestion on 102/324 has been supported by many other users on this forum, so many others agree.
We should discuss things logically and not because LTA may not agree with our suggestions.
Originally posted by carbikebus:Anyone recce 256 loadings?From my view single decker also not full despite its routings..Maybe can convert 2 DDs to SDs for the time being?
I did observe that 256 off peak sequence is SD > DD > SD > DD with 1 EIV KUB and 1 Citaro running daily, the EIV KUB tends to be different buses as I've spotted a few KUBs cameoing on 256 on a daily basis (8068D and 8089T seems to cameo frequently based on my observation)
Loading on sv 78 @ 17.40pm from JE Interchange
JE Interchange -- 16
Jurong Gateway Road -- 20 (0/4)
Jurong East Central -- 25 (0/5)
Jurong Townhall Road -- 27 (0/2), 27 (0/0), 30 (0/3), 32 (-2/4), 32 (0/0)
West Coast Highway -- 24 (-8/0), 21 (-5/2), 15 (-10/4)
Penjuru Road -- 18 (0/3), 19 (-6/7), 25 (-2/8)
Tanjong Penjuru -- 29 (0/4), 32 (0/3)
Jalan Buroh -- 32 (0/0)
Pandan Road -- 36 (0/4), 46 (0/10), 57 (0/11), 65 (-1/9)
Pandan Ave -- 81 (0/16), 102 (0/21)
West Coast Road -- 93 (-13/4), 82 (-15/4), 78 (-7/3)
Clementi Ave 2 -- 75 (-3/0)
Commonwealth Ave West -- 67 (-8/0), 21 (-67/21) Clementi MRT. When bus arrived only 8 peop came to board. But as unloading took time, people coming down escalator took 78 instead of going inside interchange to take 285. Massive fleet add and upgrade on 285 has taken away 78's loading between Clementi MRT and West Coast Road, having the DDs go almost empty back on West Coast road.
* Main loading at this time comes from Pandan to Clementi MRT. Around 35 pax alighted at West Coast Road
* Opposite direction loading is Penjuru road to Jurong East Interchange. The stop at Penjuru road before Jalan Buroh where 78 and 79 call had at least 35-40 pax waiting for bus.
Last night (Saturday), at 7.40pm, 334 departing from Jurong East had full upper deck and 15-20 standees on lower deck. Many people had shopping bags.
This explains why 334's loading is still much better than 49 during PM peak.
And yes, people do go upstairs for feeders (though 334 is quite a long feeder).
Originally posted by array88:Last night (Saturday), at 7.40pm, 334 departing from Jurong East had full upper deck and 15-20 standees on lower deck. Many people had shopping bags.
This explains why 334's loading is still much better than 49 during PM peak.
And yes, people do go upstairs for feeders (though 334 is quite a long feeder).
I feel that 334 can add 1 more AP shift on weekends as the bus is often very crowded both to and from JE Interchange. The double deckers are well utilized on the route though I feel that it could be better if they add 1 more DD to boost frequency on weekends as the buses can get 80-110 pax departing from JE Int during afternoons and nighttime.
241 is also another feeder service where the upper deck is often packed despite being a short route, especially during evening peak where the loading is both from BNL and Pioneer MRT, running at an average 03-05min headway. During AM off peak on weekdays (more specifically, the after school hours), double deckers can have great loading which justifies the utilization of double deckers on 241.
Based on the loading, my suggestion is to operate SWT 241B with 2 buses on weekdays PM peak for Pioneer MRT to Blk 953 (similar to SWT 241A but operates in evening peak and instead of from St 91 to Pioneer MRT) or do downroutes from Pioneer MRT towards St 91 as 241 bunching at Pioneer MRT in both directions is extremely common where one bus tends to not have much loading while the other one have an almost full upper deck.
Originally posted by SBS8002T:I feel that 334 can add 1 more AP shift on weekends as the bus is often very crowded both to and from JE Interchange. The double deckers are well utilized on the route though I feel that it could be better if they add 1 more DD to boost frequency on weekends as the buses can get 80-110 pax departing from JE Int during afternoons and nighttime.
241 is also another feeder service where the upper deck is often packed despite being a short route, especially during evening peak where the loading is both from BNL and Pioneer MRT, running at an average 03-05min headway. During AM off peak on weekdays (more specifically, the after school hours), double deckers can have great loading which justifies the utilization of double deckers on 241.
Based on the loading, my suggestion is to operate SWT 241B with 2 buses on weekdays PM peak for Pioneer MRT to Blk 953 (similar to SWT 241A but operates in evening peak and instead of from St 91 to Pioneer MRT) or do downroutes from Pioneer MRT towards St 91 as 241 bunching at Pioneer MRT in both directions is extremely common where one bus tends to not have much loading while the other one have an almost full upper deck.
Bro both 334 and 241 have enough buses to take care of the load. 334 is now operating at 05-07 mins peak frequency, all DDs. All SDs converted to DD + 2 DD fleet add. Okay for now. Not all buses get 100 pax. If bus in front is delayed, then yes. Most buses leave JE with 80-90 pax which is comfortable for DD, given many alight along Boon Lay Way too.
For 241, a lot of crossover buses kick in from 179. Again peak is taken well care of. + have 99 as alternative to st 93 residents from Joo Koon.
Agree both are one of the highest loading feeders.