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Originally posted by carbikebus:If local i might think SMRT no other else,If foreign it have to be Busway
i also got the feeling that SMRT buses will take the first package, judging at the speed they purchasing the Man Lion buses, Bulim currently run operated by SMRT. So all these competitive tendering i will say is for show, Thing like price discovery mechacism mentioned by TUCK LEW... A little show
Althought some may argue that buses under these routes in the first packages will go to the new shorlisted bus company. For faces purpose, SMRT will not take SBST buses and vice versa, my thoughts
When NEL opened in 2003 and operated was by SBS Transit, there was a rationalisation exercise to hand bus services from SBST to TIBS. Currently DTL is also going to be operated by SBST, so by right there should be some rationalisation sometime time to compensate? Thats why I feel SMRT buses will kinda get the first package if its a local company winning. I rather let the incumbant SMRT to win than the other private operators in Singapore because in all honesty, I believe the other competitors like Woodlands Transport and GSK have no experience in running regular public transport services. It will be too big a leap for them and I would say quite a big risk for LTA to take.
Agreed,they may be kings of charter,shopping shuttles etc but public operation wise still long way to go..I knew somebody will disagree with me but judging by the way things go,The new player will only get the second and third package only
Originally posted by carbikebus:Agreed,they may be kings of charter,shopping shuttles etc but public operation wise still long way to go..I knew somebody will disagree with me but judging by the way things go,The new player will only get the second and third package only
Then I hope SMRT will manage current popular routes (operated by SBST) like 96, 97, 98/98M, 143/143M, 183, 285 & 334 well if they do win the tender.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:When you say Mandai, what all it covers? 138, 927?
sorry, i mean that the second/third package will be under Loyang Depot and Mandai Depot....
If SMRT really win the tender, LTA will have to put in SBST Wrights under SMRT since SMRT dun have enough DDs to cope with many DD svcs...
most likey LTA will stick wall paper over those buses LTA brought them with people money with LTA logo and let the operator use lor. will be good to see mix model of buses.
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If SMRT wins and if they are still gonna maintain their identity of bus models, best would LTA to buy over the old Volvo Olympians and DM3500s and scrap them and replace with new MAN A22s, E500s and MAN A24s. This way SMRT would have lesser bus models to maintain mah. I believe SBST and SMRT will maintain their current models but when other companies win in future, they will be faced with a mix.
If LTA does not do that, then probably transfer Citaros over lor (since SMRT already has some 40 units) but SMRT will still need to accept B9TLs (in which case I rather the transfer the 199 CDGEs whole sale). But It would make more sense to buy the old buses and replace them because that way SMRT could replace some of the old DDs with some A24s to run on the clementi and JE feeder services. Im pretty sure SMRT will switch Feeder DDs to Bendies if they win Bulim.
If the bus contracting model is going to adopt the DDs/Bendies policy of SMRT its still possible if some of the old Volvo Olympians/VSOs are replaced by Bendies in future. SMRT side will already converting some of the old O405Gs to E500s as they purchase new buses and scrap the old ones so these should balance out the no. of bendies on the roads. Then the B9TLs currently deployed to feeders can just be swapped out to replace the old buses on trunk services.
Originally posted by randomguy10:If SMRT wins and if they are still gonna maintain their identity of bus models, best would LTA to buy over the old Volvo Olympians and DM3500s and scrap them and replace with new MAN A22s, E500s and MAN A24s. This way SMRT would have lesser bus models to maintain mah. I believe SBST and SMRT will maintain their current models but when other companies win in future, they will be faced with a mix.
If LTA does not do that, then probably transfer Citaros over lor (since SMRT already has some 40 units) but SMRT will still need to accept B9TLs (in which case I rather the transfer the 199 CDGEs whole sale). But It would make more sense to buy the old buses and replace them because that way SMRT could replace some of the old DDs with some A24s to run on the clementi and JE feeder services. Im pretty sure SMRT will switch Feeder DDs to Bendies if they win Bulim.
If the bus contracting model is going to adopt the DDs/Bendies policy of SMRT its still possible if some of the old Volvo Olympians/VSOs are replaced by Bendies in future. SMRT side will already converting some of the old O405Gs to E500s as they purchase new buses and scrap the old ones so these should balance out the no. of bendies on the roads. Then the B9TLs currently deployed to feeders can just be swapped out to replace the old buses on trunk services.
I would be very interested to see how they manage the chaos at JE, if they replace the DDs with bendies
1. Parking bay
2. Alighting bay (already buses queue up on Jurong Gateway road to enter alighting bay at interchange)
3. Boarding bay (already one bus is always waiting for the bus in front to get out of the boarding bay)
Originally posted by randomguy10:If SMRT wins and if they are still gonna maintain their identity of bus models, best would LTA to buy over the old Volvo Olympians and DM3500s and scrap them and replace with new MAN A22s, E500s and MAN A24s. This way SMRT would have lesser bus models to maintain mah. I believe SBST and SMRT will maintain their current models but when other companies win in future, they will be faced with a mix.
If LTA does not do that, then probably transfer Citaros over lor (since SMRT already has some 40 units) but SMRT will still need to accept B9TLs (in which case I rather the transfer the 199 CDGEs whole sale). But It would make more sense to buy the old buses and replace them because that way SMRT could replace some of the old DDs with some A24s to run on the clementi and JE feeder services. Im pretty sure SMRT will switch Feeder DDs to Bendies if they win Bulim.
If the bus contracting model is going to adopt the DDs/Bendies policy of SMRT its still possible if some of the old Volvo Olympians/VSOs are replaced by Bendies in future. SMRT side will already converting some of the old O405Gs to E500s as they purchase new buses and scrap the old ones so these should balance out the no. of bendies on the roads. Then the B9TLs currently deployed to feeders can just be swapped out to replace the old buses on trunk services.
1. Expect SMRT to have a much harder time getting its way in terms of identity and bus type. For the government to allow SMRT to do whatever they want is political suicide - people are already crying out over the existing situation, including fare increases.
2. We do not know the details for any of the 11 bids to evaluate them. However if the operators did submit competitive bids, then normally at least half of the prospective bidders should stand a decent chance at winning.
3. I do not expect the operator to have the final say on procurements and fleet planning. This flies in the face of LTA's proposed policy of owning the fleet and managing the procurement of future buses.
LTA eventually has to make a major tender to procure new buses, and create an open season for all major bus manufactuers. This is the only way for LTA to obtain the best pricing (and hence reduce costs further).
4. Allowing any incumbent to retain their existing livery for new parcel tenders sets a poor precedent that will haunt LTA later. Every operator will adopt the attitude of "if X is allowed to do this so can we, what makes them so special".
In New South Wales, the government faced very fierce resistance from operators when it decided to repaint the livery to a unified government identity for the very same reasons.
5. I do not think LTA will take over any of the non-WAB buses. Much less to buy old buses and scrap them immediately - it provides an instant windfall to incumbent operators. Expect them to remain in the existing 80% "protected" territory up to the point of retirement.
6. For cost reasons, I agree it is good sense to group buses of an identical model together for a certain parcel.
7. Solving the imbalance of bus type between operators calls for a swap of DD and bendy quota between the incumbents. The overall ratio is about right islandwide, but many are deployed on unsuitable routes due to fleet type being divided along company lines.
Remember,if SMRT win the tender LTA would definately order more DDs/Bendy for e operation cause when that time all assets will belong to them
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:I would be very interested to see how they manage the chaos at JE, if they replace the DDs with bendies
1. Parking bay
2. Alighting bay (already buses queue up on Jurong Gateway road to enter alighting bay at interchange)
3. Boarding bay (already one bus is always waiting for the bus in front to get out of the boarding bay)
It can be solved if the planners think more laterally. One proposal:
1. Eliminate layover at interchange. If you do not park at the interchange, there is no parking space problem to begin with.
2. Bendy bus to drive straight to boarding point. Passengers alight from the two exits and boarding takes place at the front door immediately.
3. Create a new layover at looping point, i.e. park by the remote roadside.
Route 49 is a good example of how this works (treating Lakeside MRT station as if it were an interchange).
But since is LTA's rules, then I think it'll be all BSEP buses that handle the tender...
Originally posted by TIB1234T:But since is LTA's rules, then I think it'll be all BSEP buses that handle the tender...
Originally posted by SBS3688Y:
yes. its mentioned in the news before that BSEP buses would be redeployed for the new bus contracts first. But i wonder why LTA dont start to get the PTOs use the LTA livery for the newly delivered buses instead of spending money to change again at the last minute when the bus contract begins. And with several hundred buses per package, i think LTA will start to change the liveries several months before the contract commence.Same applies for the bus rego.
If you haven't realized by now.. LTA has a lot of budget... I am sure they have budgeted this for future... in many ways they have spent money carelessly... so yeah... I agree... in some time from now when the buses will change hands... why not just have the LTA livery... and I am sure the costs do add up when its that high a number.
Originally posted by SBS3688Y:
yes. its mentioned in the news before that BSEP buses would be redeployed for the new bus contracts first. But i wonder why LTA dont start to get the PTOs use the LTA livery for the newly delivered buses instead of spending money to change again at the last minute when the bus contract begins. And with several hundred buses per package, i think LTA will start to change the liveries several months before the contract commence.Same applies for the bus rego.
Of course it would be more efficient to directly apply a standard LTA or even Transitlink livery to the new BSEP buses that would change hands under the contracting model, but I think such a livery would cause a big hoo-ha with public speculation over govt nationalisation of the bus industry (remember that BSEP started before the contracting model was officially announced). So far, the move towards the contracting model has been very gradual and the idea of a common livery/identity for public bus svcs is probably still being worked out. I believe the new livery, when applied, won't feature LTA directly but may use a common industry body (transitlink) as a unifying entity.
While the govt/LTA is nationalising the assets (depots, buses) and setting the svc standards, doing the planning, it prefers to leave the actual on-the-ground running of svcs to pte operators, in theory because they are more cost efficient, in reality i suspect because govt doesn't want to be blamed directly for service lapses/ poor svc standards.
Was interested to know more about the exchange of buses betwee SBS and TIBS, so I went to read up on the past news articles about Trans-Island Buses, SMRT, Singapore Bus Services and SBS Transit. Along the way, I happen to come across a series of articles about North East Line.
Somehow, it seems to me that everything in our current public transport sector was forced to be how it is today. SMRT (MRT operator), TIBS and CSS (Park-and-Ride bus service) were all formed by the government. SBS was probably also formed by the government, when several bus companies were probably asked to merge into one. It is a bit similar to Mediacorp and Singapore Press Holdings, and M1 and Starhub.
Seriously, if the new MRT Thomson Line is awarded to SMRT, it really defeats the purpose of having multiple operators, since this new line runs parallel to North South Line, which is already operated by SMRT. It would be good the new TSL is run by another operator.
Likewise, for the bus industry, since the government now wants to have competition within it, it should consider merging the bus operations of SBS Transit and SMRT, since they are after all created by the government.
I am quite interested to know what will happen in 2016 after the government negotiates with SBS Transit and SMRT on the remaining eight/nine contracts, when their current license ends.
On a side note, I hope after this first contract is awarded, the government can announce multiple contracts at the same time. If possible, it would be good to accelerate the process, rather than spread it over five to ten years.
Well, just my two cents worth.
Originally posted by sgbuses:It can be solved if the planners think more laterally. One proposal:
1. Eliminate layover at interchange. If you do not park at the interchange, there is no parking space problem to begin with.
2. Bendy bus to drive straight to boarding point. Passengers alight from the two exits and boarding takes place at the front door immediately.
3. Create a new layover at looping point, i.e. park by the remote roadside.
Route 49 is a good example of how this works (treating Lakeside MRT station as if it were an interchange).
The issue is that housing estates are mostly developed around town centres where the bus interchange/MRT is located, thus most existing svcs start/end at the interchange by necessity. Nevertheless, new svcs can call at the bus int or MRT w/o layover, by terminating at a remote bus terminal elsewhere. With Taman Jurong and the upcoming bus terminal at Changi business park, we could be seeing more of this being done.
Another possible idea to alleviate crowding at bus interchanges would be to allow passengers to board from the exit doors too, since there are no alighting pax at the boarding berths. It should be relatively simple to configure the ez link card readers at the exit doors for boarding, and buses would spend less time at the boarding berth, making the queue move faster at sawtooth berths (both for pax and for buses).
Originally posted by JurongWestresident:Was interested to know more about the exchange of buses betwee SBS and TIBS, so I went to read up on the past news articles about Trans-Island Buses, SMRT, Singapore Bus Services and SBS Transit. Along the way, I happen to come across a series of articles about North East Line.
Somehow, it seems to me that everything in our current public transport sector was forced to be how it is today. SMRT (MRT operator), TIBS and CSS (Park-and-Ride bus service) were all formed by the government. SBS was probably also formed by the government, when several bus companies were probably asked to merge into one. It is a bit similar to Mediacorp and Singapore Press Holdings, and M1 and Starhub.
Seriously, if the new MRT Thomson Line is awarded to SMRT, it really defeats the purpose of having multiple operators, since this new line runs parallel to North South Line, which is already operated by SMRT. It would be good the new TSL is run by another operator.
Likewise, for the bus industry, since the government now wants to have competition within it, it should consider merging the bus operations of SBS Transit and SMRT, since they are after all created by the government.
I am quite interested to know what will happen in 2016 after the government negotiates with SBS Transit and SMRT on the remaining eight/nine contracts, when their current license ends.
On a side note, I hope after this first contract is awarded, the government can announce multiple contracts at the same time. If possible, it would be good to accelerate the process, rather than spread it over five to ten years.
Well, just my two cents worth.
The truth is that many large private companies in Sg, especially those running public services, are government linked in some way or other, due to how the govt intervenes in the running of these industries. With such a small local market and lack of significant overlaps between svcs offered by transport companies (whether bus or MRT), there will be little real competition, at least in the form of vying for consumer choice. We could see some form of meaningful competition between the Thomson Line and existing North South Line, though commuters would likely just choose the more convenient option for their commutes, based on their start/end destinations.
The so-called competition is in the form of vying for tenders put out by govt/LTA, for the contract to run transport services. What this means is LTA chooses the most competent and cost-effective operator, hence offering the best possible service while making efficient use of public funds (at least in theory). However, the fact is that once operators take over, they are guaranteed of that business for at least several years, and may not be motivated to better their service once they already have the contract safely in hand. One example would be SMRT's lack of attention to their train maintenance, leading to the massive MRT breakdowns which they are trying to address now, though a bit too late. Hence, LTA is shortening the contract period for trains and starting from the Downtown Line, assets belong to LTA giving them more control over issues like maintenance.
As for buses, the fact that operators would have to bid competitively to run services would keep them on their toes since they can no longer take their business for granted. We can only hope the operators don't run into financial difficulties during the contract period and lead to possible service disruptions for the public.
Imagine svc like 285,334 receive A22/A24..
Itll be interesting to see how the new operator takes over the 1st contract, especially if its an incumbant. technically, by the T & C the new operator is supposed to offer employment to the BCs driving the affected routes upon take over. So technically if the new operator takes over the the routes with the current bus models being used on the respective services, the BCs can still drive them no matter who is the boss. For BBT, the SMRT captains will be able to drive the A22s/E500s/A24s and for JE and Clementi, SBST Captains can drive the B9TLs/Citraos/KUBs.
I believe LTA will select A22s/E500s/Citros/B9TLs for 1st contract since BSEP buses are going to be used first. If SMRT wins it and implements its DD/BB policy for operations, probably LTA will have to secure some A24s under BSEP for exclusive use on short trunk / feeders 189, 285, 333, 334, 945, 990 (it might happen, since LTA has already let SMRT purchase A24s and not banned articulated buses totally - not to mention the A24 is approximately 1m longer than the TIBS O405Gs?). THe other short haul trunks in the area are doing quite ok with DDs and so no point convert to articulated buses