SMRT launches Alexander Dennis Enviro 500 MMC
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
40 DDs??Mostly cameo on svc like 176,188,190,966 & 969 for e time being.67 might get 4 DDs,The Amdep 3 Bsep transfer to Kranji..960 might get 3-4 for a start
Yes... but the person above says only next month.. so this means for Jan only 2 of the 40+ spare BSEP Enviros deployed.
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Onb 3537J 169 around 7:35pm from WRI..
Bus was delayed due to the bus being "full and packed"...yeah..lower deck full ; upper deck I guess like 20% or more full..
If it's not for the BC asking the Foreign workers to move up(to upper deck), I guess many pax. would not be able to board the bus. After the foreign workers moved up, the bus departed with pax standing uptill doors and some didn't board. By then, upper deck is left with only 15-20 or less seats.
Seems like DD might not be 100% suitable for 169 either..Imagine all Foreign Workers crowd on the lower deck of the DDs at Little India..or stand at upperdeck/stairs...BC confirm kpkb much...
And it happened to SBST before..on those VO2/3-axles..I have seen before ppl sitting on stairs onboard 2xx(JIE svc), on VO2x..
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Onb 3537J 169 around 7:35pm from WRI..
Bus was delayed due to the bus being "full and packed"...yeah..lower deck full ; upper deck I guess like 20% or more full..
If it's not for the BC asking the Foreign workers to move up(to upper deck), I guess many pax. would not be able to board the bus. After the foreign workers moved up, the bus departed with pax standing uptill doors and some didn't board. By then, upper deck is left with only 15-20 or less seats.
Seems like DD might not be 100% suitable for 169 either..Imagine all Foreign Workers crowd on the lower deck of the DDs at Little India..or stand at upperdeck/stairs...BC confirm kpkb much...
And it happened to SBST before..on those VO2/3-axles..I have seen before ppl sitting on stairs onboard 2xx(JIE svc), on VO2x..
Not better than the BSEP MAN SDs on the route? I am sure it is a bonus to have DDs than have rigids on this service.
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Onb 3537J 169 around 7:35pm from WRI..
Bus was delayed due to the bus being "full and packed"...yeah..lower deck full ; upper deck I guess like 20% or more full..
If it's not for the BC asking the Foreign workers to move up(to upper deck), I guess many pax. would not be able to board the bus. After the foreign workers moved up, the bus departed with pax standing uptill doors and some didn't board. By then, upper deck is left with only 15-20 or less seats.
Seems like DD might not be 100% suitable for 169 either..Imagine all Foreign Workers crowd on the lower deck of the DDs at Little India..or stand at upperdeck/stairs...BC confirm kpkb much...
To my observation, 169 is still 100% suitable but the problem is there will be about <50% of Foreign Workers moving upper deck or [moving to the rear(rigids&bendy)] from Yishun to their dormitory and same doesn't help during weekend.
And as for 960, most of the crowd from Bugis will go up then will it reach Little India it will be equaliser especially on weekend. -
IMO, some people are very paranoid with DDs. It is okay if upper deck is not full. DD will still carry more pax than a rigid. Those who want comfortable journey can go to upper deck, sit and relax.
I have taken sv 169 previously and I saw full upper deck from AMK to Springleaf area. It is not just industrial service workers but a lot of residents, students also take service between AMK and Yishun.
Also, those who board near Seneko to go to WRI, also go to upper deck. I think there is a small patch between Yishun and Canberra, where distance is too short, and people rather stay downstairs and that is okay.
Overall, 169 is still in need of more bendies or DDs. They need to kick out more rigids from the service.
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Its better to ask those Foreign Workers to move up or rear rather than our stubborn locals..Ive seen those JIS sitting on stairs and lower deck standees all the way to the rear..
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SMB3570L -> KJ
on 190 tdy.
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Did anyone notice - 15 BSEP E500s have been given to KJDEP. Out of this, say 4 go to sv 67 (assuming that AMDEP BSEP also transfer to KJDEP). There are still 11 remaining.
I feel in next round sv 972 might get quite a bit of upgrade from SD --> DD (may be around 3 slots, making fleet of 10 DDs)
Still 8 are remaining.
From my calculation, it shows that new service 301 and 983 will get some BSEP DDs each.
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On the other hand WPDEP has only 14 BSEP E500s. Out of these 3 will go to sv 960 for sure. Remaining will be 11 BSEP E500s for Yishun.
This number is quite less to meet Yishun demand. So next round of registration will be for WPDEP IMO.
Given the delay in opening of Yishun temp interchange, I think LTA decided to allocate to KJDEP instead.
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Onb 3537J 169 around 7:35pm from WRI..
Bus was delayed due to the bus being "full and packed"...yeah..lower deck full ; upper deck I guess like 20% or more full..
If it's not for the BC asking the Foreign workers to move up(to upper deck), I guess many pax. would not be able to board the bus. After the foreign workers moved up, the bus departed with pax standing uptill doors and some didn't board. By then, upper deck is left with only 15-20 or less seats.
Seems like DD might not be 100% suitable for 169 either..Imagine all Foreign Workers crowd on the lower deck of the DDs at Little India..or stand at upperdeck/stairs...BC confirm kpkb much...
And it happened to SBST before..on those VO2/3-axles..I have seen before ppl sitting on stairs onboard 2xx(JIE svc), on VO2x..
lf deploy regular single deck bus; it could end up 1st half very packed while the rear relatively empty. if deploy bendy, front half very packed but not trailer section. the sv169 bc did the correct thing to ask the workers move up the upper deck. we need to educate them... -
SMB3566A, SMB3570L, SMB5030R, SMB5032K >> KJ SP (all on 190)
SMB5033H suspected KJ (parked at CCK INT)
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Did anyone notice - 15 BSEP E500s have been given to KJDEP. Out of this, say 4 go to sv 67 (assuming that AMDEP BSEP also transfer to KJDEP). There are still 11 remaining.
I feel in next round sv 972 might get quite a bit of upgrade from SD --> DD (may be around 3 slots, making fleet of 10 DDs)
Still 8 are remaining.
From my calculation, it shows that new service 301 and 983 will get some BSEP DDs each.
301?No DD for feeder,If 983 if the route is long enough then its justified for DD
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
301?No DD for feeder,If 983 if the route is long enough then its justified for DD
I am just saying looking at the way the BSEP E500s are registered, it seems probable that the new services under BSEP might get DDs. We will know soon.
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Hmm but I guess bendy will suits 169 more bah...but it depends on the human behaviour. Some workers went up straight away rather than squeezing on the lower deck..
I hope the deployment of DDs on 960/980 won't be that bad..
But anyway..saw the 6:30Pm trip for 964..loading wasn't that bad from WRI. Lower deck have about 20+ pax, upper deck about 10.
Also, an observations for 187. Right after SMB3559X slot(at about 6+ near the ITE), there was a big gap, not sure if it's the bus that was caught in accident or so. Waited about 15mins for 1 full MAN..with the rear empty..
Juz wondering why there's a big gap..(Arr | 23mins)
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
I am just saying looking at the way the BSEP E500s are registered, it seems probable that the new services under BSEP might get DDs. We will know soon.
SMRT is no SBST,They would love to monitor look2 see2 first then decide.972 is one fine example,Already know the svc is somewhat have higher loadings but start with all A22s
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
SMRT is no SBST,They would love to monitor look2 see2 first then decide.972 is one fine example,Already know the svc is somewhat have higher loadings but start with all A22s
No. SMRT didn't have an option. 972 was under BSEP. And only A22s were registered then. Once the E500s came in, 972 was the first service to get them.
But I agree SMRT cannot be like SBST, bcoz even now SMRT is struggling with high capacity buses. You see so many rigids span on their super high loading routes. If it were SBST, these services would have been full fleet capacity.
In fact, in SBST jurisdiction some services are extra pampered with surplus buses and DDs. You won't find even one such example in SMRT zone.
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Sooner or later I believe SMRT would catch up and services will improve. SBST has been operating DDs since 1970s so when it came to fleet renewal they just bought new DDs and replaced quickly. For SMRT case, they had been using articulated buses all the while since late 1990s. But LTA had to cap the number of articulated buses on the roads and so after certain time SMRT could only deploy SDs to increase capacity. When it came to fleet renewal they naturally looked at replacing articulated with articulated. This is how I believe SMB388S first appeared.
But since LTA does not want town bound services to have so many articulated buses, SMRT had to consider it options which took pretty long. But atleast now they have purchased E500s and probably looking to order MAN A95s. So yeah they might have been slow but i believe they will catch up soon. And with them operating articulated buses and DDs, I believe they will surpass SBST some day if they maintain. IMO, they were just late bloomers.
Also IMO, if you going to put DD on service where 25% goes up and 75% stays down on short route services, its a better option to just keep to SDs and increase the number of buses. Just add 2 more SDs and increase the frequency - effective capacity is the same and efficiency in terms of boarding and alighting will be higher than deloying DDs. Faster travel time, Better frequency, looks better also. -
Originally posted by randomguy10:
Sooner or later I believe SMRT would catch up and services will improve. SBST has been operating DDs since 1970s so when it came to fleet renewal they just bought new DDs and replaced quickly. For SMRT case, they had been using articulated buses all the while since late 1990s. But LTA had to cap the number of articulated buses on the roads and so after certain time SMRT could only deploy SDs to increase capacity. When it came to fleet renewal they naturally looked at replacing articulated with articulated. This is how I believe SMB388S first appeared.
But since LTA does not want town bound services to have so many articulated buses, SMRT had to consider it options which took pretty long. But atleast now they have purchased E500s and probably looking to order MAN A95s. So yeah they might have been slow but i believe they will catch up soon. And with them operating articulated buses and DDs, I believe they will surpass SBST some day if they maintain. IMO, they were just late bloomers.
Also IMO, if you going to put DD on service where 25% goes up and 75% stays down on short route services, its a better option to just keep to SDs and increase the number of buses. Just add 2 more SDs and increase the frequency - effective capacity is the same and efficiency in terms of boarding and alighting will be higher than deloying DDs. Faster travel time, Better frequency, looks better also.See the bolded part.
Please also consider for every 2 extra SDs you add
1. additional BCs
2. more operating costs
3. more parking space at already cramped interchanges
4. more road space occupied (imagine the higher traffic volume)
It is wise and smart to rather deploy more DDs that is okay if carried 90 pax (but takes care of the additional 20 pax that SD cannot carry, even if upper deck only 25% full). In turn, you save adding one more SD bus to the fleet and in turn all the costs and points mentioned above.
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I seen on Svc 190 also, just 2 days ago (SMB5012T) . BC tells people standing on lower deck that there are seats upstairs but the people (middle aged) just reply they dont wanna climb up (this happens at Raffles town club busstop, meaning this people are going to be travelling the express sector). End up hog the lower deck and people still cant board . Worse still, I want to climb up but people standing on 1st 2 staircase and dont want to go up.
In theory, yes DDs are good and effective. I dont deny. In practical, how much can they do if the population is stubborn. Very limited. Even long distance route got this problem, i cant imagine short route will be how.
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it will take time for SMRT bus service zone to get use to DD buses. But the driver must tell people not to stand on the stair case. SBST driver will not move DD bus if some one stand at upper deck or at stair case. Alarm will be sound if someone stand at wright stair case. you can try.
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Originally posted by randomguy10:
I seen on Svc 190 also, just 2 days ago (SMB5012T) . BC tells people standing on lower deck that there are seats upstairs but the people (middle aged) just reply they dont wanna climb up (this happens at Raffles town club busstop, meaning this people are going to be travelling the express sector). End up hog the lower deck and people still cant board . Worse still, I want to climb up but people standing on 1st 2 staircase and dont want to go up.
In theory, yes DDs are good and effective. I dont deny. In practical, how much can they do if the population is stubborn. Very limited. Even long distance route got this problem, i cant imagine short route will be how.
should have ask them to move backward to behind the bus instead or else the bus not moving. this is what 59 DD driver do.
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Originally posted by randomguy10:
I seen on Svc 190 also, just 2 days ago (SMB5012T) . BC tells people standing on lower deck that there are seats upstairs but the people (middle aged) just reply they dont wanna climb up (this happens at Raffles town club busstop, meaning this people are going to be travelling the express sector). End up hog the lower deck and people still cant board . Worse still, I want to climb up but people standing on 1st 2 staircase and dont want to go up.
In theory, yes DDs are good and effective. I dont deny. In practical, how much can they do if the population is stubborn. Very limited. Even long distance route got this problem, i cant imagine short route will be how.
If you have issues of DDs on sv 190... when the upper deck most times is 100% full, I can clearly say you are biased in your opinions... DDs have been very effective on SG roads unlike bendies... I know you want to prove otherwise... but will be better if we stop discussing topic on DDs v/s bendies.
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Seems like 963 only left with TIB1226S as perm bendy...
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851, 854, 857 and 860 will be getting DDs soon. These DDs are tested on these services and I saw some E500s entering Yishun Temp Int for testing.
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851,854,857 yes but not for 860