BSEP has not improved NTU services anyway (179/179A/199). Actually for 199, off peak its ok to increase frequency to like 12mins and SDs. Peak hours as of now is still pretty ok. Thr bunching is usually because boon lay jam or people keep squeezing aboard an SD until a DD catches up.
Yeah SMRT should order another 200 units of DD soon be it E500 or A95 and 100 units of A24 to replace the O405G gradually for feeder use in future. I havent rode on the A95 before though it appeared infront of me once on 190 while I was waiting for 180 but I prefer E500s to the SBST WEGs. The MAN suspension feels more rigid and thus more prone to jerking I think (can feel on A22 and A24). Even the O405G suspension feels better than A24 TBH.
But SMRT now purchase so many A22s - how much SD--> high capacity can they do... really wrong choice I think. They now got too many SDs and far lesser high capacity buses that what they can do is only increase frequency to compensate (not too cost effective).
Originally posted by randomguy10:BSEP has not improved NTU services anyway (179/179A/199). Actually for 199, off peak its ok to increase frequency to like 12mins and SDs. Peak hours as of now is still pretty ok. Thr bunching is usually because boon lay jam or people keep squeezing aboard an SD until a DD catches up.
Yeah SMRT should order another 200 units of DD soon be it E500 or A95 and 100 units of A24 to replace the O405G gradually for feeder use in future. I havent rode on the A95 before though it appeared infront of me once on 190 while I was waiting for 180 but I prefer E500s to the SBST WEGs. The MAN suspension feels more rigid and thus more prone to jerking I think (can feel on A22 and A24). Even the O405G suspension feels better than A24 TBH.
But SMRT now purchase so many A22s - how much SD--> high capacity can they do... really wrong choice I think. They now got too many SDs and far lesser high capacity buses that what they can do is only increase frequency to compensate (not too cost effective).
I think they needed the A22s to replace the old rigids. Now their next order needs to be 200 more DDs. They are quite slow in decision making.
Probably wait till 1st contract mah. Currently buy 200DDs also nowhere to park. They definitely seem to want to use the O405Gs till as long as they can. Still need to find space for the 40 A24s.
Originally posted by TIB 585L:Worked at NUS and i only see 96 being fully packed at peak hour only. Off peak, DD are kinda empty and SD are fully seated
i go there so know. off peak demand there but not as high as peak ofcourse. but can have 6 single decker do ap shift and 4 double decker do s shift. ok.
Originally posted by randomguy10:BSEP has not improved NTU services anyway (179/179A/199). Actually for 199, off peak its ok to increase frequency to like 12mins and SDs. Peak hours as of now is still pretty ok. Thr bunching is usually because boon lay jam or people keep squeezing aboard an SD until a DD catches up.
Yeah SMRT should order another 200 units of DD soon be it E500 or A95 and 100 units of A24 to replace the O405G gradually for feeder use in future. I havent rode on the A95 before though it appeared infront of me once on 190 while I was waiting for 180 but I prefer E500s to the SBST WEGs. The MAN suspension feels more rigid and thus more prone to jerking I think (can feel on A22 and A24). Even the O405G suspension feels better than A24 TBH.
But SMRT now purchase so many A22s - how much SD--> high capacity can they do... really wrong choice I think. They now got too many SDs and far lesser high capacity buses that what they can do is only increase frequency to compensate (not too cost effective).
true. smrt make very bad decision with purchase so many a22. i don like also. not good suspension.
actually, there is a way for SMRT to procure more new Double Decker buses: replace and remove all its TIBS-era articulated buses. Best is to not have any articulated buses at all. Because for every one articulated slot removed, we can have two standard/double-decker bus slots.
One bendy lots is not 2 single deck lots..Bendy lots is about 19m while SD/DD lots is 13m..True they should eradicate all TIBS bendy and replace only with 2 on 1 basis to create more spaces inside their depot.What i can think is they can all the feeder/Intratown bendy buses at their respective Interchanges.For mid and long haul trunk service pls no bendy..regardless of how many bus stops ppl alight.
IMO..SMRT should order at least 120 bendy buses[A24]..including of spares.
I've did some calculation + addition of some(includes 902). And I got a total of 130, including SMB388S.
Originally posted by TIB429E:IMO..SMRT should order at least 120 bendy buses[A24]..including of spares.
I've did some calculation + addition of some(includes 902). And I got a total of 130, including SMB388S.
If they win Bulim make it 150 including spares and 388S..Safe and sound
To be honest, i would not support early withdrawal of TIBs era bendys. They still work reasonably well so let them serve their full 17years, no extension. Their suspension beat the A22s flat. Our busfares are already skyrocketting, the last thing I would want to see is wasted resources. The 201 ADLs should be used on services that desperately need high capacity buses and dont have/not good for bendys. The other services, just use the old era bendys first - when time comes to replace with new buses, replace with new DDs from a next production batch. We have lived with bendys for more than 15yrs, a few more wont hurt plus the count is going down as more bendys deregister anyway. New bendys restrict to feeders and short hauls ONLY and parking at interchanges is a good idea. I feel Bendys should be explored for SBST feeder services that are not DD friendly and short haul feeders in the contracting model. Long haul feeders doing good with DDs as of now no need convert.
Problem is O405 spare parts getting expensive and old engine tend to consume more fuel and for todays environment standards its just unpractical...When engine is over 12 years old with high mileage its tend to have more wear and tear..and with SMRT sub standard of maintenance i think its like a tickbomb waiting to explode..Catch fire,Air suspension leaks etc..Unless you have a really well trained mechanic that treat the buses as their own..
SMRT would have to evaluate whether maintaining the O405Gs would be more expensive or purchasing new buses would be more expensive. I would opt for the more cost-effective measure because we dont want a fair hike just because people wanted newer buses (majority of Singaporeans would rather keep the older buses and not have a fare hike). Early retirement also means wasted cost for COE. This will not be a one-off issue. The newer buses now will also face this problem when they are 12-15years old - but just scrapping them would be such a waste and not the best thing to do when people would rather have lower fares than the newest buses in the world.
I would think maintaining the O405Gs till lifespan expiry will be more cost effective because though the parts would be more expensive, I believe SMRT can canibalise spare parts from the MK1s or even the O405s before sending them for scrap. Denis Lance and Hinos, we were looking at 60 units with nowhere to canibalise spare parts unless some go off but O405Gs, you have 250+ units on the roads with similar units retiring earlier. With SMRT doing refurbishments, its unlikely SMRT is going to refurbish for anything shorter than 2 years. I doubt the mileage would be that high in most units when you compare to SBST buses that keep running on express or 161/168 . Alot of bendys are being used on feeders anyway.
I think new buses out on the road ASAP will better and not all the spare parts is the same for all model of buses. and feeder buses no need to have DD or bendy buses as long as the service arrived on time and 4-5 min one bus will be good. like 238 in toa payoh. DD and bendy engine cap is bigger and waste diesel. and by way the there is no COE of public transport buses. and LTA want those old buses to go off the road ASAP as LTA and NEA want a cleaner air in singapore. also i think no need to have more bendy buses as new DTL is going to start operating 1st Q next year
DDs are far bigger consumers of diesel because of their larger surface area (almost double) headway... its a scientific study. DDs also use more powerful engines than bendys because of this reason. Bendys are more expensive in terms of maintainence because of the articulator joint that has moving parts subject to more wear and tear. Using SDs at 4-5mins frequency, you are incurring more manpower costs and taking up more parking space . A double deck or Bendy take up lesser parking than 2SDs. No way our feeders can operate with SDs like 238. 238 is like that because it cant use DDs and SBST has no bendy.
Anw, Bendys have no relevance to DTL. It has already been established that bendys are to be used in shorthauls or feeders ONLY and MRT lines dont really change feeder loadings. It could mean you need lesser DDs on trunks only. Like for eg, DTL would provide an alternative mode of transport to those commuting on 67, 190, 960 now - so maybe in future they might not need too many DDs.
even sbst has bendy bus 238 cannot be use as the turning from lor 7 to lor 8 is too narrow for long vehicle. this is why no DD bus deploy on 238. I think when dtl open most of the buses will be deploy to new housing estate where there is need for bus service.
I believe bus services will be mostly untouched. You see what happened after opening NEL. so many people not happy till when circle line opened, LTA didnt touch bus services. I believe will be like that for DTL, but I wont rule out DD->SD downgrades but they will do it after watching demand.
Let's wait till the entire Downtown Line opens. That's when the full effect of DTL will be observed.
West-East bus services that duplicate sections of Downtown Line may be surveyed/analysed thoroughly once the entire Downtown Line opens, because there is a possibility that the loading and travel patterns on those bus services will change significantly when DTL stage 3 opens.
DTL2 may only see effect on bus services plying between only the West area and the City, and duplicating sections of DTL 2 and 1.
Well, just stating the obvious here actually.
If demand falls to the level where it is not sustainable to have a service, there will be merging of services or termination of services. Obviously. Let's wait and see.
As to why no bus route was changed immediately when Circle Line opened, it could be because Circle Line might not have duplicated any bus route. If have, I think only the section at West Coast Highway. But the duplication is not really significant. So that's why even that section also no bus route changes.
Whereas for DTL, the entire alignment seems to follow bus route 66 very closely. DTL stage 2 seems to follow bus routes 67, 170 and 171. DTL stage 3 seems to follow bus routes 8, 22 and 65 between Tampines and Mac Pherson. There is less duplication on stage 3 as compared to stage 2.
Originally posted by JurongWestresident:Let's wait till the entire Downtown Line opens. That's when the full effect of DTL will be observed.
West-East bus services that duplicate sections of Downtown Line may be surveyed/analysed thoroughly once the entire Downtown Line opens, because there is a possibility that the loading and travel patterns on those bus services will change significantly when DTL stage 3 opens.
DTL2 may only see effect on bus services plying between only the West area and the City, and duplicating sections of DTL 2 and 1.
Well, just stating the obvious here actually.
If demand falls to the level where it is not sustainable to have a service, there will be merging of services or termination of services. Obviously. Let's wait and see.
As to why no bus route was changed immediately when Circle Line opened, it could be because Circle Line might not have duplicated any bus route. If have, I think only the section at West Coast Highway. But the duplication is not really significant. So that's why even that section also no bus route changes.
Whereas for DTL, the entire alignment seems to follow bus route 66 very closely. DTL stage 2 seems to follow bus routes 67, 170 and 171. DTL stage 3 seems to follow bus routes 8, 22 and 65 between Tampines and Mac Pherson. There is less duplication on stage 3 as compared to stage 2.
DTL 3 follow very close to 66 & 67. 65, 23, 8 and 22 might not affect most but most likey drop in passengers. but 23 i hope LTA don't remove it as bringing a express service still have people taking it and will help to reduce MRT loading problem. i wish LTA can bringing 23 to the route when it first start service
Originally posted by wsy1234:DTL 3 follow very close to 66 & 67. 65, 23, 8 and 22 might not affect most but most likey drop in passengers. but 23 i hope LTA don't remove it as bringing a express service still have people taking it and will help to reduce MRT loading problem. i wish LTA can bringing 23 to the route when it first start service
23 will never be affected at Tampines end due to it plying TP/Ave 1. The timing will probably be comparable from Bedok North to Kallang Bahru area. Return trip to Tampines should not be affected too much.
8 hardly touches DTL actually. Only section where it really duplicates DTL is between Ubi to Mcpherson.
22 could be amended to ply to Ave 1/TP, due to the main station entrance along Ave 4. It also connects TP to Serangoon/AMK
65 can ply Ave 4 to replace missing link from 22's amendment. It can act as DTL's parallel service, just like how 2 is EWL's east end parallel service.
Originally posted by ButIAmAToilet:23 will never be affected at Tampines end due to it plying TP/Ave 1. The timing will probably be comparable from Bedok North to Kallang Bahru area. Return trip to Tampines should not be affected too much.
8 hardly touches DTL actually. Only section where it really duplicates DTL is between Ubi to Mcpherson.
22 could be amended to ply to Ave 1/TP, due to the main station entrance along Ave 4. It also connects TP to Serangoon/AMK
65 can ply Ave 4 to replace missing link from 22's amendment. It can act as DTL's parallel service, just like how 2 is EWL's east end parallel service.
DTL3 confirm getting rid of DDs from 65 like service 81. Can they still run full DD? No need right. Not many new buses purchased from 2017 onwards when DTL opens. Also, I dunno about 107, considering about conversion to low-floor DD after withdrawn SBS9600K.
Originally posted by JurongWestresident:Let's wait till the entire Downtown Line opens. That's when the full effect of DTL will be observed.
West-East bus services that duplicate sections of Downtown Line may be surveyed/analysed thoroughly once the entire Downtown Line opens, because there is a possibility that the loading and travel patterns on those bus services will change significantly when DTL stage 3 opens.
DTL2 may only see effect on bus services plying between only the West area and the City, and duplicating sections of DTL 2 and 1.
Well, just stating the obvious here actually.
If demand falls to the level where it is not sustainable to have a service, there will be merging of services or termination of services. Obviously. Let's wait and see.
As to why no bus route was changed immediately when Circle Line opened, it could be because Circle Line might not have duplicated any bus route. If have, I think only the section at West Coast Highway. But the duplication is not really significant. So that's why even that section also no bus route changes.
Whereas for DTL, the entire alignment seems to follow bus route 66 very closely. DTL stage 2 seems to follow bus routes 67, 170 and 171. DTL stage 3 seems to follow bus routes 8, 22 and 65 between Tampines and Mac Pherson. There is less duplication on stage 3 as compared to stage 2.
Preferably they can kill off peak period services or silent off all complaints. Those routes whose loading is less than 11 will be diverted to cater more than 11. Preferably ppl have rights of freedom when DTL opens, becos LKY's era is going to be over :) LKY will not be around soon.......
There was quite abit of duplication of bus routes between Serangoon and Paya Lebar sectors, no?
Originally posted by TPS Timothy Mok:
DTL3 confirm getting rid of DDs from 65 like service 81. Can they still run full DD? No need right. Not many new buses purchased from 2017 onwards when DTL opens. Also, I dunno about 107, considering about conversion to low-floor DD after withdrawn SBS9600K.
Really depends. We have some examples of parallel to MRT doing very well. For instance, sv 2 parallel to EWL, sv 147 parallel to NEL from Outram Park, sv 70 parallel from Paya Lebar to Serangoon... yet all these services doing very well.
So lets wait and watch and see the impact it has on sv 65.
Originally posted by TPS Timothy Mok:
DTL3 confirm getting rid of DDs from 65 like service 81. Can they still run full DD? No need right. Not many new buses purchased from 2017 onwards when DTL opens. Also, I dunno about 107, considering about conversion to low-floor DD after withdrawn SBS9600K.
How was sv 81 impacted by any MRT line? It goes Serangoon to Tampines... no MRT parallelism... unless u talking about old route... then there was complete NEL rationalization at that time.
Originally posted by randomguy10:There was quite abit of duplication of bus routes between Serangoon and Paya Lebar sectors, no?
Yes... many 43, 70 do the full stretch... but you also have 58 do Bishan to Tai Seng.