Actually are there really jams at SIM/NP? LOL..
Anyway, usually 184 would be faster alternatives compare to other SBST svc. Given that 184 bendy arrives earlier, DD arrives later, obvious enough, the bendy will take longer time to unload at SIM/NP.
If you want to compare the same capacity for DD n Bendy, bendy will win with 3 doors to 2(presume no boarding).
Originally posted by lemon1974:in theory, it is the same.. but do u really see 80 standees in a bendy?
same go for the MRT carriage which they say can carry 300 person each carriage....
I guess only 902 will hit there.
Originally posted by TIB429E:Actually are there really jams at SIM/NP? LOL..
Anyway, usually 184 would be faster alternatives compare to other SBST svc. Given that 184 bendy arrives earlier, DD arrives later, obvious enough, the bendy will take longer time to unload at SIM/NP.
If you want to compare the same capacity for DD n Bendy, bendy will win with 3 doors to 2(presume no boarding).
The number of doors is one reason. The bottleneck at the stairs is another.
Yupp i agree to that. For institutional services, the DDs really do clog up the place. I am a NTU student and I see it on 179 and 199 everyday. It takes a long time for everyone from the upper deck to come to the lower deck and alight ONE at a time and everyone that's boarding will get stuck before the staircase till the last person has alighted from the bus.
So bendy is definitely faster because boarding and alighting can take place simultaneouly and 4 people can alight at a time from both rear doors throughout the alighting process. Why 179 needs to be so frequent is because the bus guess jammed up very long at major busstops if only 1 bus comes at a time. So SBST choose to let 2 buses go simultaneously to divide the boarding and alighting. Yes 2 double decks have more capacity than 1 bendy bus but if you notice, the 2 179s only leave mostly with a 3/4 seated crowd with some standees at standing area at current frequency.
I can assure you given same load of boarding and alighting for 184 as well, the bendy will win hands down as compared to a double deck. You dont need much intelligence to think for that. & for purely institutional services bendys do fit better because the loading is very different from trunks services like 190 or 857 or 963. 72B can survive well with DDs only because there is no simultaneous boarding and alighting.
And BTW, the real loading capacity of a DD or Bendy still ends up being about the same. Bendys dont get 70-80 standees and neither do DDs get 50 standees at the lower deck.
how u fit 28 bendy in boon lay int u tell me first.be happy u got 28 dd and no like 96 that have so many sd.
As I said previously, 96 would have received bendy if our infrastructure could support it. Unfortunately it wasn't properly configured, so no choice must spam with rigids. It was only recently that DDs were deployed on 96B.
Originally posted by randomguy10:Yupp i agree to that. For institutional services, the DDs really do clog up the place. I am a NTU student and I see it on 179 and 199 everyday. It takes a long time for everyone from the upper deck to come to the lower deck and alight ONE at a time and everyone that's boarding will get stuck before the staircase till the last person has alighted from the bus.
So bendy is definitely faster because boarding and alighting can take place simultaneouly and 4 people can alight at a time from both rear doors throughout the alighting process. Why 179 needs to be so frequent is because the bus guess jammed up very long at major busstops if only 1 bus comes at a time. So SBST choose to let 2 buses go simultaneously to divide the boarding and alighting. Yes 2 double decks have more capacity than 1 bendy bus but if you notice, the 2 179s only leave mostly with a 3/4 seated crowd with some standees at standing area at current frequency.
I can assure you given same load of boarding and alighting for 184 as well, the bendy will win hands down as compared to a double deck. You dont need much intelligence to think for that. & for purely institutional services bendys do fit better because the loading is very different from trunks services like 190 or 857 or 963. 72B can survive well with DDs only because there is no simultaneous boarding and alighting.
agree that 179/179A could have done better with bendies than DDs...but sad to say Boon Lay Int does not allow so many bendies due to lack of space and there are actually 2 tight turns along the route which will not allow bendies too...
Well logically, bendies just don't make sense for sv 96 or sv 179. Okay, let's assume for one Clementi and Boon Lay are gigantic interchanges that can accommodate bendies without complain.
Can you imagine the queue that would form to enter the interchange when 3 bendies on sv 179 come together to turn right into Boon Lay Int, and the massive queue that would pile up outside Clementi MRT if 96 had bendies.
Common guys... bendies are great... used them in Paris.. but in Singapore... they just don't make sense.. at least in crowded areas and interchanges...
our infrastructure does not permit bendies but why
Tibs order over 300 bendies (57 Mk1s, 29 Mk2s, 208 Habits, 21 Volgrens; 313+2 demo units)?
SBS had 2 demos?
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Well logically, bendies just don't make sense for sv 96 or sv 179. Okay, let's assume for one Clementi and Boon Lay are gigantic interchanges that can accommodate bendies without complain.
Can you imagine the queue that would form to enter the interchange when 3 bendies on sv 179 come together to turn right into Boon Lay Int, and the massive queue that would pile up outside Clementi MRT if 96 had bendies.
Common guys... bendies are great... used them in Paris.. but in Singapore... they just don't make sense.. at least in crowded areas and interchanges...
96 is still possible, just skip the stop outside.
on second thought, no
Originally posted by SMB145B:our infrastructure does not permit bendies but why
Tibs order over 300 bendies (57 Mk1s, 29 Mk2s, 208 Habits, 21 Volgrens; 313+2 demo units)?
SBS had 2 demos?
because they dun want to buy DD that time....
Back then when TIBS still in operation our population is only 3.6m and there isnt much condos,Private houses and HDBs but since they have built many infrastructures,reclaim land for housing/Commercial areas etc our land has become more narrow despite more roads but take note that the human and vehicle population has increase over the years and industrial estates such as Kaki Bukit has gone multi storey instead of open space.I cant imagine if the population hit 7m mark maybe your grave also squeeze or make multi storey..Currently for Muslim cemetry,Those pre 70,80,90s cemetry has been dug out and they will integrate those cousin of 8 to be place inside a grave.Singapore will soon become a 2nd Hong Kong in few years time and you still wanna talk about the effiency of bendy buses?Go and ask those bendy bus drivers that service ply town areas and come back talk to me about the practical and effiency of bendy buses in Singapore.As for short distance trunk or feeders i have no comment since SBST also succeed in using DDs for their feeders.
Originally posted by carbikebus:Back then when TIBS still in operation our population is only 3.6m and there isnt much condos,Private houses and HDBs but since they have built many infrastructures,reclaim land for housing/Commercial areas etc our land has become more narrow despite more roads but take note that the human and vehicle population has increase over the years and industrial estates such as Kaki Bukit has gone multi storey instead of open space.I cant imagine if the population hit 7m mark maybe your grave also squeeze or make multi storey..Currently for Muslim cemetry,Those pre 70,80,90s cemetry has been dug out and they will integrate those cousin of 8 to be place inside a grave.Singapore will soon become a 2nd Hong Kong in few years time and you still wanna talk about the effiency of bendy buses?Go and ask those bendy bus drivers that service ply town areas and come back talk to me about the practical and effiency of bendy buses in Singapore.As for short distance trunk or feeders i have no comment since SBST also succeed in using DDs for their feeders.
If SG is gonna become a second HK, then pls ask them to restructure and overhaul their bus route framework lah...
Still wanna intro feeders here and there, and think building feeder-MRT with 3-4 car trains can solve problem...
Surely the demand is ale there for more express routes and long trunks alr right?! 7m leh.
Since bendies dont work anymore... I'd rather SG just scrap hub and spoke altogether and intro more long-distance express...
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Well logically, bendies just don't make sense for sv 96 or sv 179. Okay, let's assume for one Clementi and Boon Lay are gigantic interchanges that can accommodate bendies without complain.
Can you imagine the queue that would form to enter the interchange when 3 bendies on sv 179 come together to turn right into Boon Lay Int, and the massive queue that would pile up outside Clementi MRT if 96 had bendies.
Common guys... bendies are great... used them in Paris.. but in Singapore... they just don't make sense.. at least in crowded areas and interchanges...
The queue that would form outside the interchange would in fact be shorter, because the bendies would clear the area in less than half the time of the double decks. Fast in, fast out, rather than the current situation of double decks behind waiting for the passengers in front to get down from the upper deck.
The problem with the pro double deck argument is that it is based on absolute road space taken, instead of the more realistic and accurate metric of traffic flow.
Still living in your world of fantasy,Wake up and accept the facts on why LTA doesnt want to buy bendy buses first then you can come and explain to us on the disadvantages of our bus infrastructure first,Come i challenge every single one of you insist that bendy buses is faster..
Originally posted by carbikebus:Still living in your world of fantasy,Wake up and accept the facts on why LTA doesnt want to buy bendy buses first then you can come and explain to us on the disadvantages of our bus infrastructure first,Come i challenge every single one of you insist that bendy buses is faster..
This is the same LTA who had short sightedly decided that 3 carriages was enough for circle line, the same LTA who is playing catching up to all the transport infrastructure needs, the same LTA who realised after years of overcrowding that the MRT and LRT systems needed new trains.
With that, can you say for certain that their decisions are absolutely the best for the transport system? If they decide to dump all the bendies in the future, I personally think they will be scratching their heads wondering why the jams have gotten worse, or why bus journeys are getting longer, as they may think double decks would solve all their issues, when in actual fact, it doesn't really do so.
A good mix of double deckers and bendies is needed, together with proper planning as to which routes to use the buses on.
Yes, unfortunately, Boon Lay interchange cannot accomodate so many bendys at the current design. It can only do so if a full bendy fleet utilises 2/3 the number of buses as a full DD fleet (do the math on the length and it will work out to that). I wasnt saying 179 should convert to Bendys, I am just saying 179 would have been better with bendys. The amount of time a DD 179 clogs up at pioneer MRT and also Boon Lay alighting point is also very long.
If there were bendys on 179, I doubt there will be as much bunching as of the current state with DDs. The DDs makes the passenger activities very irregular such that the buses bunch up so easily. And like I mentioned, SBST purposely sends 2 179s together to counter the boarding/alighting disadvantage that DDs have due to the 1 lesser door - this wont happen with bendys. Also, with dwell times reduced at the major busstops, the number of buses in the 179 fleet can be reduced slightly. But yes a 3-door double deck is a viable option to the bendy in this case because it eases the passenger activity and since passengers are mostly students, they can go up too. Best option, build MRT into NTU and 179 can operate with just SDs.
And yes SMB351M is right. DDs only take into account the absolute land space but LTA is obviously over-looking the fact of how many more DDs are being used on services with short distances and high passenger activities to compensate the efficiency of bendys. So will the overall picture really save the landspace occupied? You talk about express service (eg. 966) where there is more driving than time spent dwelling at busstops, DDs and Bendys have similar efficiencies, so of course DD is the obvious choice to save space. Also there arent any town services that need bendys because there arent any feeders or institutional services there so if planned properly, bendys wont be clogging the busy roads in town.
Yeah if Singapore bus network become like HK one, I will not even talk about bendy bus. But face reality, that's still far and I dont see feeder services disappearing in the next 20 years. I only see more old people needing to use feeders over the next 20 years.
Some people need to wake up and smell the coffee, and accept the facts about the future of bendy buses here. All of you can argue until your faces turn blue, LTA isn't buying bendy buses anytime soon.
if given three types of buses, which would you choose to spam?
Rigids, Bendies or DDs?
i won't be surprised if 902 getting DDs spammed, services like 882 and 84 getting full fleet DDs or even 42 getting 10.4m DDs. this is simply because a joker in the house proposing 10m instead of 6.9m.
Rigids. More buses better ride they say. Train breakdown, SDs are much more useful than DD.
Look here,If Singapore size is as big as Johor then i wouldnt argue about using bendy buses even for mid haul trunk service but the truth is really hurt,Just look at the structure of the new ITH..You then will realise those ITHs cannot afford to accomodate more bendy buses for their feeders.SMRT already have big headache at their depot at night,Those who have work for SMRT buses they will know better,Space crunch,Near miss accidents waiting to happen because of the spaces that these bendy buses take and not to mention how much they have to pay for the overnight parking at various interchanges..Dead mileage,Going off service from Amdep to Lor 1 just to park certain bus there.So my stand is just use those bendy buses for feeders and short trunk service like 964 only,There is no meaning using bendy buses just for the sake of three doors.
if the population were smaller, we need not think about double deckers or bendies. full fleet rigids also possible. but now, rigids cannot tank the load, full fleet bendies is out of the question.
Regardless of Singapore size...don't be bothered by it lah...
If they are interested in PT sector, they would have done like what they did to our Airport..or even introduce 10.4m/11.3m etc.
I would say they most likely target 65% SDs, 25% DDs, 10% Bendy...