Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:This is SBST v/s SMRT
SBST will deploy DDs even on services that do not need them and SMRT will play cheap and deploy their sucky MANA22s even when DDs are needed.
On day 1 of operation, SBST launched DDs on services that could have done without DDs such as :
41 > you can argue DDs are doing okay, but that's just bcoz it duplicates 183 route. The Beauty World section is just SD seating loading. Now with Beauty World MRT opening, loading could improve. But DDs were given year in advance.
201 > The DDs are doing well in the old 189 route, but the Clementi - Pandan is purely SD seating loading, yet when 201 got fleet add to improve frequency, it was DD instead of SD.
119 > The classic example of 3 years of wasted DD resources. 119 was expected to get heavy loading because of boom in flats in Punggol West and being the only service, but guess what, it never got more than 40 (99% times) bet Punggol/Sengkang. Still SBST continues to have those DDs.
102 > Another example of DDs wasted. The route b/w Hougang and Sengkang fetches at max 20-30 pax, could get to 50 pax for Sengkang-Sengkang west. Manageable by Citaros, but 50% fleet DD from day 1.
47 > Need to still evaluate if service needs DDs, could need for TNM-CBP, but again SBST decided to give DDs from day 1 instead of monitoring loading
117 > This route in future needs to be full fleet DD, but this would be only in 2017 given the huge number of flats in Punggol West, Yishun Ave 1, Canberra. But DDs get kicked in a year before.
Now, lets look at SMRT
860 > Such a high loading route. No HC buses and 16 buses have to be operated for such a short route, due to non-deployment of HC buses. Now have 1 MANdy.
979 > It was clear that DDs are required, but SMRT decided to play cheap and operate only MANA22s
983 > If this was SBST route, it would be full fleet DD. But no, once again play cheap by deploying A22s that cannot tank the ave 5 loading
301 > will need bendies from now on, but guess what SMRT will give it none, and just go on adding A22s.
No wonder 117 was given to SBST bcoz guess what if SMRT had it, it would be full fleet A22.
The type of buses used for BSEP services are determined by LTA, SBS and SMRT just run the services based on what is given.
In fact, SMRT probably saw that LTA's arrangement was not as efficient as their own services and decided to intervene by putting their own bendy buses which are more efficient for the kind of routes you've listed. This is a customer oriented move by SMRT and they should be commended for going beyond what was required of them.
301 doesn't need bendies, its perpetually emptier than most bus services around and would do fine with the current fleet.
Originally posted by SBS351M:The type of buses used for BSEP services are determined by LTA, SBS and SMRT just run the services based on what is given.
In fact, SMRT probably saw that LTA's arrangement was not as efficient as their own services and decided to intervene by putting their own bendy buses which are more efficient for the kind of routes you've listed. This is a customer oriented move by SMRT and they should be commended for going beyond what was required of them.
301 doesn't need bendies, its perpetually emptier than most bus services around and would do fine with the current fleet.
301 will need bendies from now on since it serves Keat Hong Close.
SBST did have a time when 4 and 20 started off with full fleet SD that cannot cope with the load. Hence the slow addition of DDs.
I guess they have learnt the lesson and hence started putting DDs on new services, even when some DDs are not so useful.
Originally posted by array88:301 will need bendies from now on since it serves Keat Hong Close.
Its only 2 bus stops, and that estate still has 983 and 172 at other bus stops, I don't think there will be significant increases because of those 2 stops.
Originally posted by array88:SBST did have a time when 4 and 20 started off with full fleet SD that cannot cope with the load. Hence the slow addition of DDs.
I guess they have learnt the lesson and hence started putting DDs on new services, even when some DDs are not so useful.
Again, it was not SBS which made the decision, if LTA decided not to add, SBS would just continue to run it with SDs, they don't earn a cent from running BSEP services and therefore have no incentive to upgrade the fleet for BSEP services.
Originally posted by SBS351M:Again, it was not SBS which made the decision, if LTA decided not to add, SBS would just continue to run it with SDs, they don't earn a cent from running BSEP services and therefore have no incentive to upgrade the fleet for BSEP services.
Sorry... maybe you work for SMRT and feel protective here... but the reason LTA must be giving HC buses on SBST services is because they have it... whereas SMRT is still scrambling on its own services.
Explain sv 187 getting constant HC downgrade and in turn A22s just get added like no ones business to tank the load. On one hand we talk about shortage of BCs, on the other hand, they just add rigids instead of doing the smart thing of upgrading SD-->DD.
SMRT has a big role to play why the deployment of HC buses on its feeders/intratowns/trunks is so messed up. SBST on the other hand is more than liberal even when not needed to give HC buses. There is a disconnect.
Originally posted by SBS351M:Its only 2 bus stops, and that estate still has 983 and 172 at other bus stops, I don't think there will be significant increases because of those 2 stops.
I think 301 will need bendies or massive fleet add. The HDB at Keat Hong Close is huge equivalent to the one along ave 5. If 983 needed capacity add to take care of ave 5 HDB, for sure 301 will need as well.
But let me guess. SMRT will not give any HC bus and in turn just go on adding A22s to 301.
Originally posted by array88:SBST did have a time when 4 and 20 started off with full fleet SD that cannot cope with the load. Hence the slow addition of DDs.
I guess they have learnt the lesson and hence started putting DDs on new services, even when some DDs are not so useful.
I am not against that approach. It makes sense. But you also need better judgment. You cannot start sv 50, 118 or 972 with no HC buses. It is a must.
For me 4 and 20 still needed to make their ground. It required Flora residents to abondon its private shuttle and similar for sv 20, people had to change their travel pattern. I am happy SBST has done the right thing by upgrading both these services.
For me, 979 was a no brainer - should have been 50% HC fleet from day 1.
I strongly belive 979 will be another 972 soon. Full Fleet DDs. Sunday load already rigid cannot tank, weekdays how liao
Originally posted by TIB 585L:I strongly belive 979 will be another 972 soon. Full Fleet DDs. Sunday load already rigid cannot tank, weekdays how liao
That is only provided if SMRT will be ordering more ADL Enviro500s or MAN A95 double deckers.
Originally posted by TIB 585L:I strongly belive 979 will be another 972 soon. Full Fleet DDs. Sunday load already rigid cannot tank, weekdays how liao
Well.. I'll tell you what they will do... just go on adding A22s to 979 like they are doing to 983.
Seriously,LTA should order 50 more units of DDs for SMRT for now..SMRT on e other hand should buy another 40 units of A24.
Guess waiting game. See the demand of 972 will drop or not then pull some dd from there to run 979. You know their pattern.
SMRT grave mistakes is the massive A22 orders.Secondly they break their own promise that DD only deploy for trunks svc..Look how many bendy buses are there for 188?Thirdly they only order 40 A24 for their feeder svc?What a joke!Another joke they only ordered 16 units of A95?They still have to learn more from SBST.
Originally posted by carbikebus:SMRT grave mistakes is the massive A22 orders.Secondly they break their own promise that DD only deploy for trunks svc..Look how many bendy buses are there for 188?Thirdly they only order 40 A24 for their feeder svc?What a joke!Another joke they only ordered 16 units of A95?They still have to learn more from SBST.
Thats why I want SMRT out of YIS/SBW. Anyone else would have done a better job.
By the way, anyone has any news on 103 DD upgrade? Cancelled liao?
Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:Thats why I want SMRT out of YIS/SBW. Anyone else would have done a better job.
By the way, anyone has any news on 103 DD upgrade? Cancelled liao?
Looks like the tree pruning job wasn't done well on 103 route... So off for the time being... but I am sure they will bring the DDs once job is done.
Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:Thats why I want SMRT out of YIS/SBW. Anyone else would have done a better job.
By the way, anyone has any news on 103 DD upgrade? Cancelled liao?
SMRT is the only one that make mistakes for the massive A22 orders. Secondly, the A24 bendy buses can only be deployed to the rural areas for e.g. 180, 184, 859, 860, 962, 964. That is why SMRT is still helping on the trend of bendies. Its bendy buses were reduced on 106 and 190 but demolished on the 963 side.
If Sungei Seletar were to replace Ang Mo Kio Depot, then more areas would be perfectly fine.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Sorry... maybe you work for SMRT and feel protective here... but the reason LTA must be giving HC buses on SBST services is because they have it... whereas SMRT is still scrambling on its own services.
Explain sv 187 getting constant HC downgrade and in turn A22s just get added like no ones business to tank the load. On one hand we talk about shortage of BCs, on the other hand, they just add rigids instead of doing the smart thing of upgrading SD-->DD.
SMRT has a big role to play why the deployment of HC buses on its feeders/intratowns/trunks is so messed up. SBST on the other hand is more than liberal even when not needed to give HC buses. There is a disconnect.
Nature of bus enthusiasts... Strangely many of them love SMRT much more than SBST.
Just like how many can spam so many posts about the bendy special departure on 979 on its first day, or about the O405G on 979 today. Even saying SMRT's BSEP services never get boring... Trying to cover up the fact that 979 has majority rigid fleet?
On the contrary, 118 is full fleet DD since its 1st day and nobody cares.
Originally posted by SBS351M:The type of buses used for BSEP services are determined by LTA, SBS and SMRT just run the services based on what is given.
In fact, SMRT probably saw that LTA's arrangement was not as efficient as their own services and decided to intervene by putting their own bendy buses which are more efficient for the kind of routes you've listed. This is a customer oriented move by SMRT and they should be commended for going beyond what was required of them.
301 doesn't need bendies, its perpetually emptier than most bus services around and would do fine with the current fleet.
Please explain why SMRT didn't have the "customer oriented move" on 972 and 860 (before the Enviros kicked in).
1086D - 979 as heard by others..
At CCK Int, 983 demand seems to drop a little, 301 starting to get more passengers.
983 still travels slowly as usual...BSEP svces pattern.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Sorry... maybe you work for SMRT and feel protective here... but the reason LTA must be giving HC buses on SBST services is because they have it... whereas SMRT is still scrambling on its own services.
Explain sv 187 getting constant HC downgrade and in turn A22s just get added like no ones business to tank the load. On one hand we talk about shortage of BCs, on the other hand, they just add rigids instead of doing the smart thing of upgrading SD-->DD.
SMRT has a big role to play why the deployment of HC buses on its feeders/intratowns/trunks is so messed up. SBST on the other hand is more than liberal even when not needed to give HC buses. There is a disconnect.
Hmm if LTA wishes to give HC buses to SMRT side, why didn't it order more ADLs? Why stop at 100+?
Anyway, SMRT did saw the huge demand from 951E previously(before route changes), and they ownself add another ADL, giving a total of 7 buses instead of 6. Permenant deployment until the changes happen.
TO KEEP IN VIEW
979 Weekday schedule
7 R, 2 S
Block 979-01 979AP01 - NL323F
Block 979-02 979AP02 - NL323F
Block 979-03 979AP03 - NL323F
Block 979-04 979AP04 - NL323F
Block 979-05 979AP05 - NL323F
Block 979-06 979AP06 - NL323F
Block 979-07 979AP07 - NL323F
Block 979-08 979S101 - Random
Block 979-09 979S102 - Random
979 Sunday schedule (based on last Sunday, aka debut day)
4 R, 3 T
Block 979-01 979AP01 - NL323F
Block 979-02 979AP02 - NL323F
Block 979-03 979AP03 - NL323F
Block 979-04 979AP04 - NL323F
Block 979-05 979AP05 - NL323F
Block 979-06 979AP06 - NL323F
Block 979-07 979TQ01 - NL323F
(there must be more slots at the moment, still keep-ing in view)
Originally posted by TIB429E:Hmm if LTA wishes to give HC buses to SMRT side, why didn't it order more ADLs? Why stop at 100+?
Anyway, SMRT did saw the huge demand from 951E previously(before route changes), and they ownself add another ADL, giving a total of 7 buses instead of 6. Permenant deployment until the changes happen.
It is kind of expected. What will you do if you have lack of HC buses to deploy around your new services, when your existing services also needs the HC buses? Also barely any depot space to obtain more HC buses as of now.
Originally posted by ButIAmAToilet:It is kind of expected. What will you do if you have lack of HC buses to deploy around your new services, when your existing services also needs the HC buses? Also barely any depot space to obtain more HC buses as of now.
Bolded - Expected? From 6 buses(2 DDs n 4 SDs) as per LTA news release to 7 buses(3 DDs n 4 SDs) eh? :o
Hmm maybe that's the reason why they stop at 16 A95s?? Maybe for now?
But maybe perhaps LTA should take more SDs from SMRT side, more DDs from SBST side for TT/Go-Ahead instead? At least giving it a balance fleet...
Originally posted by SMB315C:TO KEEP IN VIEW
979 Weekday schedule
4 R, 3 S
Block 979-01 979AP01 - NL323F
Block 979-02 979AP02 - NL323F
Block 979-03 979AP03 - NL323F
Block 979-04 979AP04 - NL323F
Block 979-05 979S101 - Random (Rigid or Double-Decker)
Block 979-06 979S102 - Random (Bendy or Double-Decker)
Block 979-07 979S??? - NL323F (should be 979S103)
979 Sunday schedule (based on last Sunday, aka debut day)
4 R, 3 T
Block 979-01 979AP01 - NL323F
Block 979-02 979AP02 - NL323F
Block 979-03 979AP03 - NL323F
Block 979-04 979AP04 - NL323F
Block 979-05 979TQ01 - NL323F
Block 979-06 979TQ02 - NL323F
Block 979-07 979TQ03 - NL323F
(there might be more slots at the moment, still keep-ing in view)
confirm got more...already i spotted 979AP05 (3136H) and 979AP06 (3139A) on Sunday. Today, SMB3150R was on 979AP07 and SMB3162G was on 979AP05...
So there are at least 7 AP slots on weekdays while Sunday have 6 at least