LTA's Bus Service Enhancement Program - BSEP (Part 3)
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CCL also so many stops.. You didnt need One North when Kent Ridge and Buona Vista are so close... same way why do you need Caldecott which almost has nothing around it (every time I take CCL, almost 4-5 people are on platform).. when you have Bishan closeby... same goes with Mountbatten and Dakota - both are so close (should have had just one station instead of two). Don't like the CCL planning at all - too many stations.
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CCL route:
Harbourfront
Tehlok Blangah (1-2 bus stops away from both Harbourfront & Labrador Park, low patronage)
Labrador Park
Pasir Panjang
Haw Par Villa
Kent Ridge
One-North (1-2 bus stops away from both Kent Ridge and Buona Vista)
Buona Vista
Holland Village
Farrer Road
Caldecott
Bishan
Lor Chuan (very low patronage, few bus stops away from Serangoon, connected with 58/105)
Serangoon
Bartley
Tai Seng
Macpherson
Paya Lebar
Dakota (one bus stop away from Mountbatten)
Mountbatten
Stadium
Nicole Highway
Promenade
Esplanade
Bras Basah (one bus stop away from Dhoby Ghaut)
Dhoby Ghaut
* Save so much cost and time
* All MRT stops mentioned are within close vicinity of the other, hence deleted
* Not crowded
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
CCL route:
Harbourfront
Tehlok Blangah (1-2 bus stops away from both Harbourfront & Labrador Park, low patronage)
Labrador Park
Pasir Panjang
Haw Par Villa
Kent Ridge
One-North (1-2 bus stops away from both Kent Ridge and Buona Vista)
Buona Vista
Holland Village
Farrer Road
Caldecott
Bishan
Lor Chuan (very low patronage, few bus stops away from Serangoon, connected with 58/105)
Serangoon
Bartley
Tai Seng
Macpherson
Paya Lebar
Dakota (one bus stop away from Mountbatten)
Mountbatten
Stadium
Nicole Highway
Promenade
Esplanade
Bras Basah (one bus stop away from Dhoby Ghaut)
Dhoby Ghaut
* Save so much cost and time
* All MRT stops mentioned are within close vicinity of the other, hence deleted
* Not crowded
Woah now also become MRT route planner alr uh
Anyways this will not work as unlike buses these stations are once there, forever there.
And purpose of CCL is to allow these ppl to gain MRT access and NOT for you to travel whole route... So cancelling the stops is an absolute no-no.
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Woah now also become MRT route planner alr uh
Anyways this will not work as unlike buses these stations are once there, forever there.
And purpose of CCL is to allow these ppl to gain MRT access and NOT for you to travel whole route... So cancelling the stops is an absolute no-no.
I know la... now they are there... they are going to be there... was just saying their planning is faulty... some of the stations are so close... no need... now they are there.. so who can do anything...
But repeat same mistake with tsl.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
CCL route:
Harbourfront
Tehlok Blangah (1-2 bus stops away from both Harbourfront & Labrador Park, low patronage)
Labrador Park
Pasir Panjang
Haw Par Villa
Kent Ridge
One-North (1-2 bus stops away from both Kent Ridge and Buona Vista)
Buona Vista
Holland Village
Farrer Road
Caldecott
Bishan
Lor Chuan (very low patronage, few bus stops away from Serangoon, connected with 58/105)
Serangoon
Bartley
Tai Seng
Macpherson
Paya Lebar
Dakota (one bus stop away from Mountbatten)
Mountbatten
Stadium
Nicole Highway
Promenade
Esplanade
Bras Basah (one bus stop away from Dhoby Ghaut)
Dhoby Ghaut
* Save so much cost and time
* All MRT stops mentioned are within close vicinity of the other, hence deleted
* Not crowded
Telok Blangah - no comment yet
One-North - Isn't its purpose is to serve Fusionpolis/Ayer Rajah Industrial?
Lor Chuan - NJC? (It is a bit far though)
Dakota - Marine Parade? (They have better options though)
Bras Basah - no comment yet
TEL the whole sector a bit screw up, Woodlands side is okay, Sin Ming is only worth it after CIL, Napier sector redundant IMO, first CBD area from east side is Shenton Way. A but long from MP to Orchard. If from East Coast to Woodlands, 168 might be faster than TEL
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
But can't simply look at the number of train cars. I'd rather have 4 cars at 2mins interval than 6 cars at 3min or even 8 cars at 4mins. A compromise has to be made somewhere. Afterall it is a medium density line (If you don't understand the concept, look at U-bahn services in Germany).
What I really don't like as well is the high density of stops. It is as if you are planning a new bus route that stops every 800m instead of 400m, except that it is on a track and in tunnels. Makes it suffer all the disadvantages of buses (many stops), trains (long dwell times, high building cost - probably 20 to 30bil this time for the whole TEL) and making it really not comparable with the comfort and speed of cars.
They just don't seem to be looking towards making something that car users will want to utilise, but rather to just force them use public transport by lowering the COE quota/quantity.
Heh.
Freq all right.
CCL currently has the worst freq of all existing MRT lines, what is your say to THAT?
High amount of transit pax + short trains + atrocious freq just equals to a completely screwed up line.
Fleet add? I don't believe in THAT anymore. The delivery for the C151A is already nearing completion and there are alr so many of those trains here and there, YET I have to suffer 5 min freq during weekends and get my face shoved on the EWL. In other words, fleet add =/= service improvement!
Soon DTL will be coming to my house, at Upp Changi. But I won't be taking that. I mean, slow (both in terms of stops and speed) and crowded trains to city?! No wonder so many SGreans lust for cars.
I really like your last two paragraphs - really expressed my sentiments accurately. SG gov must think of improving their PT, rather than forcing COE prices up blatantly! They keep thinking it is the people's fault and responsibility, without even looking at themselves! There is a lack of check and balance!
I think they are convinced that since CCL has so many pax it is alright to build more stops in lines but no! CCL is totally different story! Purpose of CCL is to connect transit passengers, thus forgivable for the high amount of stops. But definitely not the case for DTL and TEL, where they are serving people TO THE CITY, not TO MRT INTERCHANGES! And it's bullshit they are using 4-car on TEL because the route is too long and serving high-density areas eg. Marine Parade and I seriously don't think LTA would bloody bother to deploy trains to at least the standard 2-3 min freq during weekends and 2 min during peak!
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
I know la... now they are there... they are going to be there... was just saying their planning is faulty... some of the stations are so close... no need... now they are there.. so who can do anything...
But repeat same mistake with tsl.
CCL forgivable as purpose is to connect MRT-ill areas to interchanges and thus its circular route and many interchanges.
But TEL cannot! How to convince Woodlands folks to switch to TEL with high amount of stops? And Marine Parade people to squeeze into 4-car trains that travel at 50-60km/h?!
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Heh.
Freq all right.
CCL currently has the worst freq of all existing MRT lines, what is your say to THAT?
High amount of transit pax + short trains + atrocious freq just equals to a completely screwed up line.
Fleet add? I don't believe in THAT anymore. The delivery for the C151A is already nearing completion and there are alr so many of those trains here and there, YET I have to suffer 5 min freq during weekends and get my face shoved on the EWL. In other words, fleet add =/= service improvement!
Soon DTL will be coming to my house, at Upp Changi. But I won't be taking that. I mean, slow (both in terms of stops and speed) and crowded trains to city?! No wonder so many SGreans lust for cars.
I really like your last two paragraphs - really expressed my sentiments accurately. SG gov must think of improving their PT, rather than forcing COE prices up blatantly! They keep thinking it is the people's fault and responsibility, without even looking at themselves! There is a lack of check and balance!
I think they are convinced that since CCL has so many pax it is alright to build more stops in lines but no! CCL is totally different story! Purpose of CCL is to connect transit passengers, thus forgivable for the high amount of stops. But definitely not the case for DTL and TEL, where they are serving people TO THE CITY, not TO MRT INTERCHANGES! And it's bullshit they are using 4-car on TEL because the route is too long and serving high-density areas eg. Marine Parade and I seriously don't think LTA would bloody bother to deploy trains to at least the standard 2-3 min freq during weekends and 2 min during peak!
With so many stops... frequency slows down as well right...
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
With so many stops... frequency slows down as well right...
yeah
liddat might as well build LRT across Singapore!
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Someway I feel DTL west is better planned than TSL.
TSL you have Bright Hill and Upper Thomson so close.. Again you have Napier, Orchard Boulevard and Orchard - three stops so close by... even by bus it is like 5 stops between Napier and Orchard... dunno what they are thinking while planning so many stations..
You just kill the speed and the bus network around as well.
Bright Hill is a future interchange, Upper Thomson isn't. The thing is Upper Thomson isn't close to the Thomson Plaza. they seems to f the bus, screw the train. WTH?
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Originally posted by SMB145B:
Bright Hill is a future interchange, Upper Thomson isn't. The thing is Upper Thomson isn't close to the Thomson Plaza. they seems to f the bus, screw the train. WTH?
They dont even know how to eliminate buses with MRT...
Thinking that by making MRT stop more it will completely remove any chances for buses to exist...
I find this so fcking stupid and pathetic...
What's the bloody point of having MRT then... In fact liddat I would rather have buses lor, scenary and soft seats, not so noisy also...
Pls la LTA, wake up la
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr SBS2656X, your reasoning does not link to the initial statements which you make. You say LTA will not be touching anymore on Punggol and hougang until much longer later which definitely will not be true.
You say hougang int is already having parking issues due to the high amount of bus services. Then why introduce 1 more bus service in sept to further worsen it?
Back in yr 2001, objective then is different from nowadays. Ever since NEL was opened, long routes to North east were all rationalized. Current route introduction are all quite short. So seriously you think they still will give you such a long route from hougang to Boon Lay?
We are not saying to introduce any more routes in Punggol in yr 2014. But there will not be a hub until yr 2019-2020. Punggol Watertown Mall is up in end yr 2015 but that is not a hub. So going by your earlier statements, there will not be bus service introduced from 2015 till 2019? How will those people in new flats react?
Whoever says introduce new bus services by Punggol way, Punggol road or Punggol east will just cause duplications? You think they will not ply other different routes once it is out of Punggol. 1 or 2 similar roads do not make it a full duplication. In other estates, some have few bus services having similar roads out ot that estates, so Punggol should be no different.
Take note they are also building a new Punggol highway road deep inside which will directly link Punggol road to pasir ris which will not go through TPE. This will connect those waterway flats to pasir ris and will also need new bus services. Next time, TPE may not be that frequently used by Punggol residents once this inter town road link is up by end 2015!
Your last statement is indeed strange! What sengkang west avenue??? Service 85 or 965 why need goes by yishun ave 1 which is accessible through seletar west link from Punggol. Current route by TPE and SLE to lentor and yishun ave 2 for 85 and to woodlands for 965 will be sufficient and good enough. Cheers.
Hougang is crowded. LTA don't think so. Cramping one still need to follow suit.
I never really said they will introduce one to Boon Lay. I'm just saying it had this possibility in the past.
You said roads will be open to and from Punggol by 2015. Um... I believe it's not 2015 right?
And there would be a direct link towards Yishun once Sengkang West Road opens, via Yishun Avenue 1. Won't take long before a route get amended to ply there. -
Originally posted by SBS2656X:
Hougang is crowded. LTA don't think so. Cramping one still need to follow suit.
I never really said they will introduce one to Boon Lay. I'm just saying it had this possibility in the past.
You said roads will be open to and from Punggol by 2015. Um... I believe it's not 2015 right?
And there would be a direct link towards Yishun once Sengkang West Road opens, via Yishun Avenue 1. Won't take long before a route get amended to ply there.
Agreed. But given LTA way of doing things.. no route will be amended.. there will be a new route introduced to ply Sengkang West road, going to Yishun ave 1 and then ply ring road to terminate at Sembawang (since Yishun Int also crowded)
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Agreed. But given LTA way of doing things.. no route will be amended.. there will be a new route introduced to ply Sengkang West road, going to Yishun ave 1 and then ply ring road to terminate at Sembawang (since Yishun Int also crowded)
Yeah, something like 965M or 103M or 85M.
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Originally posted by SBS2656X:
Hougang is crowded. LTA don't think so. Cramping one still need to follow suit.
I never really said they will introduce one to Boon Lay. I'm just saying it had this possibility in the past.
You said roads will be open to and from Punggol by 2015. Um... I believe it's not 2015 right?
And there would be a direct link towards Yishun once Sengkang West Road opens, via Yishun Avenue 1. Won't take long before a route get amended to ply there.
Hi mr SBS2656X, the inter town road linking Punggol to pasir ris is being built. Will update you the progress. Should be by end 2015 as per my earlier mail. All the best. Cheers.
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr SBS2656X, the inter town road linking Punggol to pasir ris is being built. Will update you the progress. Should be by end 2015 as per my earlier mail. All the best. Cheers.
I can tell you that if there happens to be a bus service passing there, it would turn redundant by 2025, unless it goes to places such as Temasek Polytechnic.
Also, wouldn't 109 suffice for now once it starts to ply the bus stop? -
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
Someway I feel DTL west is better planned than TSL.
TSL you have Bright Hill and Upper Thomson so close.. Again you have Napier, Orchard Boulevard and Orchard - three stops so close by... even by bus it is like 5 stops between Napier and Orchard... dunno what they are thinking while planning so many stations..
You just kill the speed and the bus network around as well.
Yes, DTL is somehow better planned, but if they had a bypass tunnel Jalan Besar and Rochor it would be even better. It defeats the purpose of it being a effective alternative to EWL just because of the detour into marina bay. Ends up it would still be faster to take a bus directly (66, 67 anyone) that bypass the city center. Don't even talk about driving.
Perhaps it is a way for the gov't to improve land prices around the stations, so the more the merrier.
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Yes, DTL is somehow better planned, but if they had a bypass tunnel Jalan Besar and Rochor it would be even better. It defeats the purpose of it being a effective alternative to EWL just because of the detour into marina bay. Ends up it would still be faster to take a bus directly (66, 67 anyone) that bypass the city center. Don't even talk about driving.
Perhaps it is a way for the gov't to improve land prices around the stations, so the more the merrier.
DTL is made for people to get to the city faster, not to bypass the city.
There is always a way to transfer at Caldecott to CCL and then back to DTL at Macpherson. -
Originally posted by SMB128B:
Heh.
Freq all right.
CCL currently has the worst freq of all existing MRT lines, what is your say to THAT?
High amount of transit pax + short trains + atrocious freq just equals to a completely screwed up line.
Fleet add? I don't believe in THAT anymore. The delivery for the C151A is already nearing completion and there are alr so many of those trains here and there, YET I have to suffer 5 min freq during weekends and get my face shoved on the EWL. In other words, fleet add =/= service improvement!
Soon DTL will be coming to my house, at Upp Changi. But I won't be taking that. I mean, slow (both in terms of stops and speed) and crowded trains to city?! No wonder so many SGreans lust for cars.
I really like your last two paragraphs - really expressed my sentiments accurately. SG gov must think of improving their PT, rather than forcing COE prices up blatantly! They keep thinking it is the people's fault and responsibility, without even looking at themselves! There is a lack of check and balance!
I think they are convinced that since CCL has so many pax it is alright to build more stops in lines but no! CCL is totally different story! Purpose of CCL is to connect transit passengers, thus forgivable for the high amount of stops. But definitely not the case for DTL and TEL, where they are serving people TO THE CITY, not TO MRT INTERCHANGES! And it's bullshit they are using 4-car on TEL because the route is too long and serving high-density areas eg. Marine Parade and I seriously don't think LTA would bloody bother to deploy trains to at least the standard 2-3 min freq during weekends and 2 min during peak!
Well that's the whole point!
If you doubled the amount of cars to 6 per trainset on CCL, the frequency would be even worse.
Problem is the lack of foresight to order additional trains early enough to cater for increased demand on some sections. They did that a little late and the 24 sets representing 60% increase in trainsets will only come in from later this year.
If you are still seeing 5 minutes frequency on weekends, you should feedback to SMRT. On the other end of the EWL i'm getting on avg 3 mins on weekends, which is pretty decent. Also, the automated lines are easier to add trains too, don't need to plan for TO.
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Originally posted by SBS2656X:
I can tell you that if there happens to be a bus service passing there, it would turn redundant by 2025, unless it goes to places such as Temasek Polytechnic.
Also, wouldn't 109 suffice for now once it starts to ply the bus stop?Hi mr SBS2656X, why will it be redundant??? Do you know that there are many flats deep inside the waterway built? So many HDB flats and condos are coming up. You need at least half a dozen of new bus services, not just 1 bus service. Those flats are not within the reach of the TPE stop.
109? There is the crowded no 3 inside Punggol central to pasir ris. There are 88, 89 and 89e on the outskirts of TPE outside Punggol. So? The road is built much further inside for residents to have another alternative to TPE. You can just imagine the number of cars inside.
Furthermore, Punggol will be the biggest estate soon. Yr by yr, the number of people is increasing at a fast pace! We can foresee many more services coming in. Cheers.
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Let me guess, the DD upgrade for 518 who would take the credit?
Should be LTA. (BSEP) Since SBST is the one who's stubborn enough not to put DDs on 518
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
Well that's the whole point!
If you doubled the amount of cars to 6 per trainset on CCL, the frequency would be even worse.
Problem is the lack of foresight to order additional trains early enough to cater for increased demand on some sections. They did that a little late and the 24 sets representing 60% increase in trainsets will only come in from later this year.
If you are still seeing 5 minutes frequency on weekends, you should feedback to SMRT. On the other end of the EWL i'm getting on avg 3 mins on weekends, which is pretty decent. Also, the automated lines are easier to add trains too, don't need to plan for TO.
The problem with CCL now is the additional CCLe. That was unplanned for, and during the peak hours, almost all of the trains will be in service, and during off peak, most of the trains will need to go for servicing. And occasionally some would show problems in the middle of revenue service and had to be called off from service.
The fleet they ordered was enough for CCL, but with CCLe, it wasn't. -
Originally posted by SBS2656X:
DTL is made for people to get to the city faster, not to bypass the city.
There is always a way to transfer at Caldecott to CCL and then back to DTL at Macpherson.There are always different ways if u want to transfer, but for trains systems to cost so much, should it not be fast, direct, and efficient?
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Originally posted by Bus Stopping:
There are always different ways if u want to transfer, but for trains systems to cost so much, should it not be fast, direct, and efficient?
Then what would bus services that plow through various towns for?
If trains are fast, direct and efficient, 190 would be already abolished by NSL