Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:TIBS handled SKG and Jalan Kayu quite okay. They had box bendies on 82 and 864 (present 80). Even 103 and the old 860 had Hispano O405's. The tradeoff was Scania 113's and later Lances appearing on 167, 851, 852, 853, 855 and 980 but it really got to the worst (en masse spam of Lances on AMDEP services) when they took over BPJ and CCK and gave SKG and Kayu back to SBST.
BPJ was taken over by TIBS just before PGL. After SBS took back SKG and PGL, CCK and BBT went over in exchange.
Originally posted by SMB128B:If they lose it SBST better not take it.. Unless they are willing to run bendies again for 858
LTA won't take over ownership of the A24s. Only DD models are deployed for BCM.
Originally posted by iveco:LTA won't take over ownership of the A24s. Only DD models are deployed for BCM.
Then they'd better have a terminal in CGA up and running then.
Else it just highlights yet another failure of this already-flawed model.
Originally posted by SBS8676Z:If I am not wrong, Lances rolled in at around the time when Tibs opened its 3rd depot at Woodlands in 1998. The Scanias were then under AMDEP and eventually moved to WLDEP, and the newly rolled in Lances took its place in AMDEP.
855 initially had mainly 0405s in its fleet until when Jalan Kayu went back under SBST, lances from 163 went to 855. Some of the 855's 0405s went to 67.
167 and 851 never had lances until sometime later in 2001, due to the fact that these 2 services were not under AMDEP then until another depot reshuffle took place. 169 was the one that had lances instead.
103 also got a handful of perm lances too when it was under Tibs, together with 163 and 59/866 (now 86).
I remembered once Tibs started to take over 190, all the bendies were withdrawn from 82. And also noticed Tibs also anyhow deployed buses on 82 and 103 just before they were returned to SBS in 1999.
In short TIBS werent properly equipped or prepared (even mentally prepared) to operate anything properly outside of their original Sembawang-Yishun-Woodlands territory. When SMRT took over, they werent any better too.
Lances should never have been on 169. It deserved HC buses from the start. Prior to SBS giving 169 to TIBS in 1984, SBS had been putting at least half DD fleet on 169.
Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:In this respect I kinda agree with the "industry" wrt SMRT ... in fact they should just focus on running the rails properly and ditch the bus business. I dont mean to cause hurt to SMRT bus drivers, but SMRT management had only managed to show that it is capable of only properly managing a bus business of a scale that harks back to the TIBS days prior to the Bt Panjang and CCK takeover.
Their recent improvements had been directly due to LTA, BSEP and the provision of GreenBus Co buses.
I agree with you. It's really time for SMRT to give up its bus operations and fully concentrate on its rail operations, like it did in the past. They have been wanting to leave the bus industry before, and now it's the best time.
Originally posted by carbikebus:The first two packages is just for show only..I'm sorry to say many in the industry prefer SBST..Its some sort of personal preference..TTS will come second and i no need to explain much.SMRT is like walking in a thin rope although its under Temasek..GAS i dont see any future either.So in future prepared to see only 3 'personal' choice operators with SBST again the majority.
It's not just about preference. It's about the industry itself. The bus services market here is too small for too many operators to sustain as this would become a cut throat competition and everyone loses money.
The market is only this small and a dominant big player is crucial, in case the other small players leaves the market as they deem fit. The competition here is for assistance to the big player to expand and improve bus services here. In case the smaller players exit the market promptly, there is still a big player to fall back on to ensure that the whole system is still running.
Originally posted by vicamour:I agree with you. It's really time for SMRT to give up its bus operations and fully concentrate on its rail operations, like it did in the past. They have been wanting to leave the bus industry before, and now it's the best time.
Better not give it to SBST... The current load for them is alr overwheing by itself..
Give them up to TT or GA.. Or transdev or busways..
I would prefer 3 if LTA decided to kick SMRT/GAS out.
SBS Transit
Tower Transit
Arriva
Originally posted by carbikebus:I would prefer 3 if LTA decided to kick SMRT/GAS out.
SBS Transit
Tower Transit
Arriva
then LTA would transfer both DTL and NEL to SMRT, while shifting bus operations to SBST or TT. GAS may not be out, giving them another package should do.
Originally posted by SMB128B:Better not give it to SBST... The current load for them is alr overwheing by itself..
Give them up to TT or GA.. Or transdev or busways..
I'm fine with the suitable operators as long as it's not SMRT, be it SBST (if it can handle), TT or other players.
Originally posted by SMB145B:then LTA would transfer both DTL and NEL to SMRT, while shifting bus operations to SBST or TT. GAS may not be out, giving them another package should do.
SMRT should improve its current rail operations before taking in more lines. DTL and NEL are actually doing well under SBST, so don't see the need to transfer.
Actually the rail lines are also open to foreign players. So would be good to see foreign players come in and bid.
Originally posted by vicamour:SMRT should improve its current rail operations before taking in more lines. DTL and NEL are actually doing well under SBST, so don't see the need to transfer.
Actually the rail lines are also open to foreign players. So would be good to see foreign players come in and bid.
You also forget that the lines SMRT runs are older in terms of average age..
For what SMRT has been doing to ensure the lines are running as smooth as possible, esp with all its upgrading programmes for NSEWL, I think they have already shown that they are better than they were before..
On the contrary SBST should be the ones who need to up their rail game.. Though it does run its lines okay their crisis management is abhorrent whenever the line breaks down.. Buses are nearly nonexistent and there is often a shortage of staff and thus, order. Case in point recent DTL breakdown management.
If you ask me SBST should just ditch its MRT ops.. In exchange they should take BPLRT from SMRT. Firstly, when the LRT messes up that's less trouble SBST needs to handle. Secondly, SBST is actl doing a great job at the LRT. Anyway, Since you so claim that they are so competent, why not give them a chance to prove themselves, by letting them have a go at restructuring the BPLRT?
Originally posted by vicamour:I'm fine with the suitable operators as long as it's not SMRT, be it SBST (if it can handle), TT or other players.
I dont think SBST can handle.. Just look at the number of svcs that got SDs when this should not have been the case
TT or GA should be fine.. New bus ops will also benefit greater under LTA's BCM, just like how GA got its load of DDs..
Originally posted by SMB128B:You also forget that the lines SMRT runs are older in terms of average age..
For what SMRT has been doing to ensure the lines are running as smooth as possible, esp with all its upgrading programmes for NSEWL, I think they have already shown that they are better than they were before..
On the contrary SBST should be the ones who need to up their rail game.. Though it does run its lines okay their crisis management is abhorrent whenever the line breaks down.. Buses are nearly nonexistent and there is often a shortage of staff and thus, order. Case in point recent DTL breakdown management.
If you ask me SBST should just ditch its MRT ops.. In exchange they should take BPLRT from SMRT. Firstly, when the LRT messes up that's less trouble SBST needs to handle. Secondly, SBST is actl doing a great job at the LRT. Anyway, Since you so claim that they are so competent, why not give them a chance to prove themselves, by letting them have a go at restructuring the BPLRT?
Recent years of breakdowns until today shows regardless of the age of the rail lines, CCL, NSEW, NEL, DTL. The NSEW lines still breaks down even after the sleeper replacement, and SMRT still has a lot to do to improve its rail operations.
I don't see the need to let SBST to take over BPLRT just to ditch the rail operations. In fact, the rail operations should not be just monopolized by SMRT alone since it cannot handle the loads of the rail routes countrywide. A smaller operator, like SBST, can help to alleviate it's burden, since it has the capability and financial resources to run the rail lines.
Actually LRT is a waste of money and land space and buses can do a far better job at lower costs. LRT, especially BPLRT, should have closed down for good, since LTA has done great improvements to the bus services in Bukit Panjang, making the BPLRT seriously redundant.
Originally posted by vicamour:SMRT should improve its current rail operations before taking in more lines. DTL and NEL are actually doing well under SBST, so don't see the need to transfer.
Actually the rail lines are also open to foreign players. So would be good to see foreign players come in and bid.
FYI the Thomson-East Coast Line tender is only open to SMRT and SBS Transit ...
Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:Lances should never have been on 169. It deserved HC buses from the start. Prior to SBS giving 169 to TIBS in 1984, SBS had been putting at least half DD fleet on 169.
169 did not have any high capacity fleets under Tibs until 2001, when bendies started to perm 169.
Originally posted by SBS8676Z:169 did not have any high capacity fleets under Tibs until 2001, when bendies started to perm 169.
Yes, The bendies came in as early as 1997. In 1999 when I was still using 169 to go to work in Woodlands (still no bendies on 169 then), Lances were the norm. Imagine how gleeful I was when I saw TIB931X burn down. I dont think that bus deserved to be burnt down but 169 didnt deserve Lances.
Originally posted by vicamour:Recent years of breakdowns until today shows regardless of the age of the rail lines, CCL, NSEW, NEL, DTL. The NSEW lines still breaks down even after the sleeper replacement, and SMRT still has a lot to do to improve its rail operations.
I don't see the need to let SBST to take over BPLRT just to ditch the rail operations. In fact, the rail operations should not be just monopolized by SMRT alone since it cannot handle the loads of the rail routes countrywide. A smaller operator, like SBST, can help to alleviate it's burden, since it has the capability and financial resources to run the rail lines.
Actually LRT is a waste of money and land space and buses can do a far better job at lower costs. LRT, especially BPLRT, should have closed down for good, since LTA has done great improvements to the bus services in Bukit Panjang, making the BPLRT seriously redundant.
Of bloody course the NSEWL still breaks down la, you think the lines run by magic? It is damn true that the NSEWL has become more reliable than few years back.. And by your first line dont you concede that SBST screws up as much as SMRT does?
If by your logic then SBST shall not handle the bus svcs of so many places as well then. It's hence better for them to stay off any SMRT territory and mind their own business first, esp Sembawang-Yishun, given how they can't even manange their own express/airport svcs properly.
Give the SMRT territory to any other firm, be it TT or GA. Not SBST.
Actually i did mention about Hispano bodied but Volgren,But at least they take years to vibrate and squeak..Even the DM also vibrate.But GML less than 5 years already show sign of .....duh!
Aiya why so greedy and why so sceptical?
SBST and SMRT can still be king of PTOs
SBST>Bulim,CCK-BPJ,Seletar,Bedok & SGN-EUN & DTL
SMRT>Woodlands,Jurong West,BIS-TPY & EWL,NSL/BPJ LRT/CCL
TTS>Bukit Merah,HGN-SKG,Loyang & NEL/PGL-SKG LRT
GAS>Tampines,SBW-YIS,Clementi & TEL
Originally posted by SMB128B:Of bloody course the NSEWL still breaks down la, you think the lines run by magic? It is damn true that the NSEWL has become more reliable than few years back.. And by your first line dont you concede that SBST screws up as much as SMRT does?
If by your logic then SBST shall not handle the bus svcs of so many places as well then. It's hence better for them to stay off any SMRT territory and mind their own business first, esp Sembawang-Yishun, given how they can't even manange their own express/airport svcs properly.
Give the SMRT territory to any other firm, be it TT or GA. Not SBST.
I didn't say SBST handle rail better than SMRT but at least on par with SMRT, if not better.
That's for rail. It's different for buses. SBST handled buses better than SMRT. Despite the bigger scale of economies it has served in the past before GCM, their service standards and quality are better and maintain it over the years. SMRT despite given a few places, managed it badly after taken over TIBS, from badly maintained buses, to infrequent frequencies to lack of new bus services to poor overall management, especially under the old management. They simply not interested in operating buses and have been thinking about ditching it's bus operations for years. They only improve recently when the government decides to implement GCM and actually supports GCM as a stepping board to provide bus services without incurring bus assets ownership to reduce the losses in its bus operations.
So it's all about business decisions for both companies, no need to compare who should take over which mode of transport for which company. SBST is interested in bus and rail operations and it made profits out of both. SMRT is more interested in rail operations as it helps to reap huge profits for it, but not so for its loss making taxi and bus operations. And now the government wants it to fully concentrate to improve on its rail operations.
You are still living in the era of the past. Now is already not which bus company restricted within its boundaries anymore due to GCM. Who can give the best price in bidding, who gets to operate the place. I don't see why SBST can't take over Yishun - Sembawang, if they can offer a reasonable bid. Just like how TT and GA took over some of SBST services. As long as there are bus operators willing to operate bus services and operate at a reasonable bid, it doesn't matter who is the operator. More importantly to the commuters is that fares don't increase, service standards improve.
I do agree that both companies won't collapse because they are all GLCs.
Originally posted by carbikebus:Aiya why so greedy and why so sceptical?
SBST and SMRT can still be king of PTOs
SBST>Bulim,CCK-BPJ,Seletar,Bedok & SGN-EUN & DTL
SMRT>Woodlands,Jurong West,BIS-TPY & EWL,NSL/BPJ LRT/CCL
TTS>Bukit Merah,HGN-SKG,Loyang & NEL/PGL-SKG LRT
GAS>Tampines,SBW-YIS,Clementi & TEL
I think it's already not for us to decide. TT and GA won't invest that kind of money into rail operations. Govt wants SMRT to improve its rail operations. Govt wants bus and rail operations to tender out to smaller foreign players, while GLCs still retain their bigger market share for each transport mode.
Originally posted by vicamour:I think it's already not for us to decide. TT and GA won't invest that kind of money into rail operations. Govt wants SMRT to improve its rail operations. Govt wants bus and rail operations to tender out to smaller foreign players, while GLCs still retain their bigger market share for each transport mode.
Never underestimate foreign operators on rail handling..Its up to LTA to open biddings for our rail lines.With so many disastrous I don't see why it can't put on tender..SMRT and SBST should be the main player and let TTS/GAS handle CCL and NEL respectively
Originally posted by carbikebus:Never underestimate foreign operators on rail handling..Its up to LTA to open biddings for our rail lines.With so many disastrous I don't see why it can't put on tender..SMRT and SBST should be the main player and let TTS/GAS handle CCL and NEL respectively
If LTA really do open up rail line biddings to foreign operators, it would go towards more established foreign rail operators rather than TT and GA.
TT only operates buses in UK and Singapore. As it is a newly established company in UK, I don't think it wants to invest too much money into other ventures like rail, when it's bus operations is still taking off.
GA doesn’t have a good start in Singapore GCM. They should be more concerned about whether they can continue to operate buses here in future, or replaced by another foreign player.
Somemore both companies do not have a backing from the govt. They enter Singapore market because start up costs are low due to nature of bus operations and do not have to own bus fleet assets. If operating costs exceeds their expectations, they can just leave the market if they want, once the lease is up.
The opening of the market here is not just restricted to TT or GA. There are many established foreign players in the world. Problem is, how established they are and what is the right price they are willingly to offer.
Originally posted by vicamour:If LTA really do open up rail line biddings to foreign operators, it would go towards more established foreign rail operators rather than TT and GA.
TT only operates buses in UK and Singapore. As it is a newly established company in UK, I don't think it wants to invest too much money into other ventures like rail, when it's bus operations is still taking off.
GA doesn’t have a good start in Singapore GCM. They should be more concerned about whether they can continue to operate buses here in future, or replaced by another foreign player.
Somemore both companies do not have a backing from the govt. They enter Singapore market because start up costs are low due to nature of bus operations and do not have to own bus fleet assets. If operating costs exceeds their expectations, they can just leave the market if they want, once the lease is up.
The opening of the market here is not just restricted to TT or GA. There are many established foreign players in the world. Problem is, how established they are and what is the right price they are willingly to offer.
If talking about advantages,why not TTS/GAS find shareholders too?It is unfair to called for since SBST/SMRT got rail/bus/taxis/advertising business