SMRT MAN NG363F A24 discussions
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That is what mingle in my mind..They might order first 40 first and retire all the box bendies and also wait for first tender package result too,whoever wins the contract can utilise Bulim depot and voila can just order another 60 before the takeover on 2016..And also Mandai depot.
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
That is what mingle in my mind..They might order first 40 first and retire all the box bendies and also wait for first tender package result too,whoever wins the contract can utilise Bulim depot and voila can just order another 60 before the takeover on 2016..And also Mandai depot.
Mandai Depot will only be operational in 2019. if it were to replace Ang Mo Kio Depot, then where are the buses going to park (mind you, a 3 years period). it will get worse when you have more buses. Yishun Bus Park may not offer much parking after 2018 when it operates at NorthPoint City.
Yishun Bus Interchange might not handle bendies, the plans shows more of 12m lots. Woodlands also getting its temporary interchange soon. Let's hope the plan for the new Woodlands Regional Interchange is able to change the situation that SMRT is facing.
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Since when did i say Mandai replace Ang Mo Kio,Open your eyes big big.I got confident it will replace kranji instead cause the distance to BPJ/CCK/WDL isnt that far either.Amdep need an expansion and cannot change to other location far away due to its control for CBD/Eastern areas.
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Since when did i say Mandai replace Ang Mo Kio,Open your eyes big big.I got confident it will replace kranji instead cause the distance to BPJ/CCK/WDL isnt that far either.Amdep need an expansion and cannot change to other location far away due to its control for CBD/Eastern areas.
no i didn't imply that
if kranji replacement is indeed Mandai, then i would see some svc under Bukit Panjang to be controlled. but could be an expansion of Woodlands Depot to cover some Woodlands and Sembawang.
AMDEP could be moved to the area next to Yio Chu Kang station or next to the MRT tracks at Ang Mo Ave 9.
In the bus contracts model, the north area consist of Woodlands, Sembawang and Yishun. Would you think that Sembawang and Yishun services will go under Mandai Depot? that could free up much space in new AMDEP.
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If really Yio Chu Kang Depot is in e planning then Mandai will definately back up Woodlands controlling CCK/BPJ also..Mandai to SBW/YIS is much nearer than to CCK/BPJ right?But if theyre going to demolish Amdep for Mandai to take over then i suggest the current Lavender coach terminal to convert to full time bus park for eastern and CBD/Bt Merah/Harbourfront svc
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I believe the 40 A24s are just the first step in SMRT's fleet renewal. When SMRT announced its fleet renewal earlier this year, it mentioned that the addition of 201ADLs, 40 A24s and 332 A22s are part of its fleet renewal plan till 2016. Given that most of SBST feeder services are already WAB as opposed to SMRT where only a minority are, I believe SMRT was facing the pressure to make their feeders WAB as well. At the current situation, if SMRT opts to make their fleet WAB, they will need to trade off the use of the high capacity buses (or use ADLS, but as their chairman has said, DDs are only for middle to long haul trunk services, which IMO is a very good choice). In order to make some of their feeders WAB, SMRT decided not to extend the MK1s for a further 2 years and replace them with the A24s instead. With the use of these 40 A24s, A22s and the older Mk2, Habit and Volgren bendies to boost the % of high capacity buses, I believe quite a number of feeders can go WAB in 2015.
The MK2s, Habits and volgrens are not due for deregistration till 2017 and seeing SMRT's pattern, I really dont think these buses will face early retirement (except for those slated to retire after 2020 because if I remember correctly LTA wants 100% WAB by then). All of the SMRT bendies are Mercs except SMB388S. As seen in the case of SMRT rigid buses, SMRT chose to retire the scanias without extension and give early retirement to the lances and hinos whereas the O405 NACs and CACs which were considerably older received a 2-2.5years extension. Moreover the MK2s, habits and volgrens are still in very good working condition and retiring them will be a real waste and not make economic sense when the last thing singaporeans want is a bus fare hike.
As for the new integrated hubs, while some of them might not be bendy-friendly, the rest are, since the current fleet of SMRT buses can still maneuver through them. Given that most long haul trunk services will be using DDs in the future, I don't forsee a situation where the number of bendies on singapore roads will increase. Bendies could just operate from the interchanges that are bendy-friendly and serve as loop services (since routes are short) or even operate from roadside terminals. Also, with LTA building so many new depots in HDB towns, operations for feeder services could be shifted to operate directly from the depots and pass by the Interchange/MRT/Town Centre (AMK will be a good example, as in the case of Svc 265, 268). Bendy buses can definitely park at these depots and if land space really is the problem for parking, multi-storey depots is the solution. Shifting feeder services to depots is definitely a good idea regardless of whether bendies or DDs or SDs are used because these services are the most frequent and have the greatest number of buses laying over at the interchange in between trips. If they dont operate from the interchange, problems such as long queues to turn into the interchange and congestion in the interchange can be minimised.
Moreover, at the rate at which new services are introduced and the projected number of new services to be introduced in future, the current interchanges can't sustain no matter which buses are used. LTA will have to find the solution to that, which could indicate cropping up of roadside terminals or operations from interchange. With the introduction of the bus contracting model, I believe we could see feeder services and short haul routes currently under SBST receiving bendies in future.
Given SMRT is buying these 40 A24s and LTA is going to own these buses in due course, it might be in LTAs plan to get more bendies in future when they take over the bus assets. LTA will not increase the number of bendies past the current numbers and I am sure they are against bendy operations on long trunks but they never denounced its uses on Feeders and short hauls. They probably dont want to get it now because the current operator SBST might not want to operate these buses. But after 2016, SBST has no choice but to operate the buses allocated by LTA if they are to remain in the market.
The capabilities, advantages and disadvantages of the different types of buses must be taken into account and transforming Singapore's transport system into a 1st world system really depends on deploying the right types of buses at the right places (Bendies for Feeders, short hauls and DDs for Trunks, Express and Long Hauls). A 1-size-fits-it-all approach cannot solve singapore's problems because different buses have different needs and loading patterns.
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Well said bro
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Originally posted by randomguy10:
I believe the 40 A24s are just the first step in SMRT’s fleet renewal. When SMRT announced its fleet renewal earlier this year, it mentioned that the addition of 201ADLs, 40 A24s and 332 A22s are part of its fleet renewal plan till 2016. Given that most of SBST feeder services are already WAB as opposed to SMRT where only a minority are, I believe SMRT was facing the pressure to make their feeders WAB as well. At the current situation, if SMRT opts to make their fleet WAB, they will need to trade off the use of the high capacity buses (or use ADLS, but as their chairman has said, DDs are only for middle to long haul trunk services, which IMO is a very good choice). In order to make some of their feeders WAB, SMRT decided not to extend the MK1s for a further 2 years and replace them with the A24s instead. With the use of these 40 A24s, A22s and the older Mk2, Habit and Volgren bendies to boost the % of high capacity buses, I believe quite a number of feeders can go WAB in 2015.
The MK2s, Habits and volgrens are not due for deregistration till 2017 and seeing SMRT’s pattern, I really dont think these buses will face early retirement (except for those slated to retire after 2020 because if I remember correctly LTA wants 100% WAB by then). All of the SMRT bendies are Mercs except SMB388S. As seen in the case of SMRT rigid buses, SMRT chose to retire the scanias without extension and give early retirement to the lances and hinos whereas the O405 NACs and CACs which were considerably older received a 2-2.5years extension. Moreover the MK2s, habits and volgrens are still in very good working condition and retiring them will be a real waste and not make economic sense when the last thing singaporeans want is a bus fare hike.
As for the new integrated hubs, while some of them might not be bendy-friendly, the rest are, since the current fleet of SMRT buses can still maneuver through them. Given that most long haul trunk services will be using DDs in the future, I don’t forsee a situation where the number of bendies on singapore roads will increase. Bendies could just operate from the interchanges that are bendy-friendly and serve as loop services (since routes are short) or even operate from roadside terminals. Also, with LTA building so many new depots in HDB towns, operations for feeder services could be shifted to operate directly from the depots and pass by the Interchange/MRT/Town Centre (AMK will be a good example, as in the case of Svc 265, 26
. Bendy buses can definitely park at these depots and if
land space really is the problem for parking, multi-storey depots
is the solution. Shifting feeder services to depots is definitely a
good idea regardless of whether bendies or DDs or SDs are used
because these services are the most frequent and have the greatest
number of buses laying over at the interchange in between trips. If
they dont operate from the interchange, problems such as long
queues to turn into the interchange and congestion in the
interchange can be minimised.Moreover, at the rate at which new services are introduced and the projected number of new services to be introduced in future, the current interchanges can’t sustain no matter which buses are used. LTA will have to find the solution to that, which could indicate cropping up of roadside terminals or operations from interchange.
With the introduction of the bus contracting model, I believe we could see feeder services and short haul routes currently under SBST receiving bendies in future. Given SMRT is buying these 40 A24s and LTA is going to own these buses in due course, it might be in LTAs plan to get more bendies in future when they take over the bus assets. LTA will not increase the number of bendies past the current numbers and I am sure they are against bendy operations on long trunks but they never denounced its uses on Feeders and short hauls. They probably dont want to get it now because the current operator SBST might not want to operate these buses. But after 2016, SBST has no choice but to operate the buses allocated by LTA if they are to remain in the market. The capabilities, advantages and disadvantages of the different types of buses must be taken into account and transforming Singapore’s transport system into a 1st world system really depends on deploying the right types of buses at the right places (Bendies for Feeders, short hauls and DDs for Trunks, Express and Long Hauls). A 1-size-fits-it-all approach cannot solve singapore’s problems because different buses have different needs and loading patterns.
We will know by 2016 if this is put into action.
The simplest solution is for the fleet transfer to take place during the conversion to contracting. Areas currently served by articulated buses can give away most of their articulated buses in return for double-deck buses.
Many of the foreign operators have extensive experience in operating articulated buses, and would have factored this into their proposals. As for the WAB-quota issue, I expect the older articulated buses to be operated only during peak hours, as per the current practice in Perth.
I agree that most of the legacy fleet (i.e. non-WAB) will be cleaned up by 2020. London has managed to pull that off, Singapore will do this better.
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I hope those O405G and older buses gone by early 2016
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hahaha given that SMRT is refurbishing their Habits and Volgrens, I doubt they will be gone by 2016. If I am not wrong the 1st Habits are scheduled to end their 17year lifespan in Mid 2017, so with the refurbishments I really would think SMRT will use these buses up to their full lifespans without extensions.
As for the MK2s, its hard to say. These buses were refurbished together with the MK1s. Once all the MK1s are gone and the A24s have arrived, SMRT might start to deregister the MK2s to make way for more articulated buses (that is, if they order more - because I think LTA would not allow SMRT to add more articulated buses to their fleet without removing some of the existing ones)
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But to be honest knowing SMRT style they might dereg the first few batch 1 Habits first..Look at Hinos,Lances,CRLs..
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From what I know, all of the MAN A24s will be under AMDEP. Because since AMDEP cannot take in Enviro 500s while the rest of the depot can take, so AMDEP will take all of MAN A24s. Well, this is fair enough.
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Originally posted by SMB3095S:
From what I know, all of the MAN A24s will be under AMDEP. Because since AMDEP cannot take in Enviro 500s while the rest of the depot can take, so AMDEP will take all of MAN A24s. Well, this is fair enough.
If that's the case, the potential services that will be trying out the A24s will be 67,800-806,812,851,854,969 from my guessing.
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Originally posted by SMB3095S:
From what I know, all of the MAN A24s will be under AMDEP. Because since AMDEP cannot take in Enviro 500s while the rest of the depot can take, so AMDEP will take all of MAN A24s. Well, this is fair enough.
I dun think so,how bout other feeders wanna WAB?Deploy DDs and A22s?SMRT already intend to refurb AMDEP with the option of expand it..only time will tell
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Originally posted by SMB3095S:
From what I know, all of the MAN A24s will be under AMDEP. Because since AMDEP cannot take in Enviro 500s while the rest of the depot can take, so AMDEP will take all of MAN A24s. Well, this is fair enough.
Read from somewhere or anpther post in this forum that AMDEP will get the 40 A24s as since it cannot take in DDs,the A24s will only be for Ampdep and another reason the person said is that the bendies at AMDEP are not in really good condition so the A24 goes to AMDEP
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If really Amdep then its quite wasted imo..Probably SMRT can buy another 60 Citaro G II for Amdep beside a few A24?
Summary of where should the 40 A24s goes
800-4
804-4
806-6
811-4
812-5
851-5
854-6
857-3
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no need any new depot by the time it bulid new MRT line start operating. i think the bus depot and MRT depot will combine into one just the changi one smart design save land space. Also if SMRT want to bring in bendy buses you will see them sooner than later. it seems like might be a change of mind maybe.
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Changi & Mandai one fine example of integrated depot..But again one depot probably you will see SBST/SMRT and another co together...
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2 unpainted MAN NG363F buses have been delivered to WPDEP.
1 on 14/01/2015, and the other 15/01/2015..
And this doesn't mean it'll 100% sure a WPDEP controlled bus.. -
WPDEP is the one that take control of the repainting. Even the newly delivered MAN A22 bus also go to Wldep to check maintenance before entering to any other depots.
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The most visible different of the production batch A24s is the AC pods being supplied by Denso rather than Spheros. Other than that no Lion hair is present, which makes it look exactly like SMB388S or a stock Lion City G.
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Hmm another 38 units on the way..
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Humm look like SMRT will be around to operate this new bendy buses for a while even smrt might not get the new tender. I don't think LTA will let the new operator use them.
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Originally posted by SMB315C:
2 unpainted MAN NG363F buses have been delivered to WPDEP.
1 on 14/01/2015, and the other 15/01/2015..
And this doesn't mean it'll 100% sure a WPDEP controlled bus..The A24s should go to AMDEP considering KJDEP/WLDEP get the E500 high capacity buses.
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Good that the A24s have finally started to come in. Hopefully SMRT will use them wisely. Since they are highly likely to go into AMDEP, I hope they are used on Yishun Feeders like 800, 804, 806, 811, 812 first. I guess the 40 A24s together with the existing pool of O405G can make these services become WAB and also revert back to a almost all bendy fleet. I believe there will also be some units being deployed to woodlands feeder services because it will not make sense to use the balance A24s on trunks controlled by AMDEP, especially when SMRT has clearly stated bendies for feeders/short trunks and DDs for middle to long distance trunks.
However, I guess there are still bound to be some SDs around because of those MAN A22s added under BSEP. Hopefully, LTA will also register some BSEP A24s and replace the MAN A22 BSEP slots. And if they do, they can also add A24s to 860.
Since SMRT has already purchased and taken delivery of the A24s, I dont see a point for LTA to play hardball and not accept bendies to be part of BSEP. If they wanted to do away with bendies, they should have rejected SMRT's purchase in the first place. IMO, i rather let SMRT win Bulim than SBST because atleast then, you could see bendies being operated on Feeders. And maybe it would be a wake up call for SBST to give up its one-size-fits-it-all mentality