SMRT MAN NG363F A24 discussions
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Originally posted by azharjj:
i believe I saw 388S abt 7am + reach chinese garden MRT twrds boon lay
but that one i spot twice in a week. other weekdays never see
Paiseh... confused lakeside with chinese garden... Some days ill spot them... but thurs and fri i spotted consecutively same timing. Always bunch up with a Bendy Hispano. Need to observe more if i can durjng thurs and fri.
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SMRT should add more A24s for their feeders..Just in case if they win the first package too..CBD and long haul trunk should stick to DDs only.
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saw 1 production batch MAN A24 bendy at STK corporation rd just now
not sure whether got rego or not coz i cant see it
the front facing the main road
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Suprise me too,Might as well dont include the feeders too..96 & the three feeders only for grab..Should include 99,156 & 175 to be fair..156 & 175 can still be majority Budep control mah..
i thought 105 and 143 under soon lee deport and 48 AY deport? or maybe the tender is by interchanges in the west area not by deports? chance is that a new company will operate those services and use those bus brought by LTA not those own by sbst or smrt. so bendy buses might not even use by the operator unless smrt win it
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I would hope LTA would include both Bendys and DDs in the first package. Bendys for the use on Feeders/short haul and DDs to the majority other services. That is regardless of who wins the package!
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Yeah man,BSEP another 80 A24s..but again if SBST wins they might not want bendy..
2nd package i might think Loyang:Pasir Ris Svc,Changi Village Svc and certain Airport svc
3rd might be Mandai:Sembawang,Yishun and certain Ang Mo Kio svc
4th might be a new depot along Commonwealth corridor:Svc from Buona Vista,Kent Ridge,Bt Merah,Harbourfront
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I guess it really depends on LTA stand with regards to use of Bendys and DDs. Operator dont have the liberty to choose the buses mah. But I feel if SMRT wins, theres higher chances of LTA including Bendys (likewise foreign operators that have said in their proposal that they suggest using both bus types)
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Foreign operators and SMRT chose both type so there is chances that LTA might buy them in a smaller scale
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Yeah man,BSEP another 80 A24s..but again if SBST wins they might not want bendy..
2nd package i might think Loyang:Pasir Ris Svc,Changi Village Svc and certain Airport svc
3rd might be Mandai:Sembawang,Yishun and certain Ang Mo Kio svc
4th might be a new depot along Commonwealth corridor:Svc from Buona Vista,Kent Ridge,Bt Merah,Harbourfront
if sbst win it not up to them to get what they want now. LTA using people money so it LTA decision maybe all will be 12M SD buses as MRT lines comning. and forget about bendy buses or DD buses. some service will be shorten and some will be removed. long distance will be serve by MRT and at the station change to feeder service
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Hmm I dont believe LTA will cut short the long bus routes with the opening of new MRT lines. Our population is too big and continuously growing - MRT lines cannot sustain if everyone goes to MRT. LTA knows there are people bound to take buses from point A to point B even if MRT might offer a shorter travel time because people prefer more comfortable rides and lesser crowds.
They cut all the routes in the north-east that duplicated the NEL except 147 and the effect this move had on service 147 was drastic. For eg. In the past Service 103 used to serve YCK and Jln Kayu to Chinatown, Little India and Dhoby Ghaut. If they had not cut this service, people in the newly developed Sengkang West/Jalan Kayu/Buangkok flats would have chosen to take this service directly without transferring to NEL. Given 103 route is direct, changing to NEL wouldnt have made severe difference in travel times. If they were already comfortably seated, why will they want to go and squeeze in the train? Now without 103, people in those areas either have to change to 147 or NEL. Obviously NEL would be the choice because a transfer is required anyway and 147 is already pretty packed before YCK sector. Why squeeze on 147 when they can squeeze on the NEL and get to their destination fatser? It was a mistake made in the past and the effects can be felt till date (not to mention other services like former 82, 97, 111 that would also considerably reduced loading on NEL).
LTA probably realised this error on their part but it is quite paiseh to reverse their decision. Which is why I believe they didnt touch the bus services when circle line opened. I was thinking with Circle line, Service 70 might just become YCK-Serangoon Central (Loop) but it did not happen. Definitely a wise choice. Though loading on 70 is lesser than before circle line in the sectors duplicating circle line, there still are people who will use the service.
Hence I think, Long Haul routes will mostly remain unless in cases where there are too many routes duplicating a train line. THe new train lines I guess also all 3 carraige train and not 6 carraige right?If many bidders choose to operate bendys and DDs, I think LTA will adopt both models no matter who wins. SBST also have to suck thumb and except. After all SMRT is somewhat govt linked and so LTA wont ask SMRT's A24s to go fly kite after they have approved the purchase. But Bendys should remain to feeders and short haul for sure and it would be good to explore Bendys on routes that are not DD-friendly and also maybe redesign the airport PTBs to allow Bendys (because confirm cant redesign to allow DDs)
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The new MAN bendy which i saw at STK lakeside that day now got rego plate
cant see it coz too far
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Originally posted by randomguy10:
If many bidders choose to operate bendys and DDs, I think LTA will adopt both models no matter who wins. SBST also have to suck thumb and except. After all SMRT is somewhat govt linked and so LTA wont ask SMRT's A24s to go fly kite after they have approved the purchase. But Bendys should remain to feeders and short haul for sure and it would be good to explore Bendys on routes that are not DD-friendly and also maybe redesign the airport PTBs to allow Bendys (because confirm cant redesign to allow DDs)
it is not bidders choosing what to operate, it is LTA directing them what to operate, with the design of ITHs i think the answer for bendies is quite clear, what do u think? we refit all interchanges just so that bendies can fit?
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Originally posted by randomguy10:
Hmm I dont believe LTA will cut short the long bus routes with the opening of new MRT lines. Our population is too big and continuously growing - MRT lines cannot sustain if everyone goes to MRT. LTA knows there are people bound to take buses from point A to point B even if MRT might offer a shorter travel time because people prefer more comfortable rides and lesser crowds.
They cut all the routes in the north-east that duplicated the NEL except 147 and the effect this move had on service 147 was drastic. For eg. In the past Service 103 used to serve YCK and Jln Kayu to Chinatown, Little India and Dhoby Ghaut. If they had not cut this service, people in the newly developed Sengkang West/Jalan Kayu/Buangkok flats would have chosen to take this service directly without transferring to NEL. Given 103 route is direct, changing to NEL wouldnt have made severe difference in travel times. If they were already comfortably seated, why will they want to go and squeeze in the train? Now without 103, people in those areas either have to change to 147 or NEL. Obviously NEL would be the choice because a transfer is required anyway and 147 is already pretty packed before YCK sector. Why squeeze on 147 when they can squeeze on the NEL and get to their destination fatser? It was a mistake made in the past and the effects can be felt till date (not to mention other services like former 82, 97, 111 that would also considerably reduced loading on NEL).
LTA probably realised this error on their part but it is quite paiseh to reverse their decision. Which is why I believe they didnt touch the bus services when circle line opened. I was thinking with Circle line, Service 70 might just become YCK-Serangoon Central (Loop) but it did not happen. Definitely a wise choice. Though loading on 70 is lesser than before circle line in the sectors duplicating circle line, there still are people who will use the service.
Hence I think, Long Haul routes will mostly remain unless in cases where there are too many routes duplicating a train line. THe new train lines I guess also all 3 carraige train and not 6 carraige right?If many bidders choose to operate bendys and DDs, I think LTA will adopt both models no matter who wins. SBST also have to suck thumb and except. After all SMRT is somewhat govt linked and so LTA wont ask SMRT's A24s to go fly kite after they have approved the purchase. But Bendys should remain to feeders and short haul for sure and it would be good to explore Bendys on routes that are not DD-friendly and also maybe redesign the airport PTBs to allow Bendys (because confirm cant redesign to allow DDs)
They shld make most trunks express...
Esp those cross island and city centre routes
Makes car users switch to buses and thus make space on expressways for buses
LTA fail to realise 90% of their long haul routings are outdated alr...
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Hmm If bendys are restricted to just short haul and feeders, i think most ITHs will still be able to accomodate? Because at most will only require to park a few units at any point in time mah. They can always do parallel parking on the sides also as long as the bus interchange is friendly for a bendy to maneuvre through. Also in the past, I dont believe the old interchanges were designed for bendies before TIB's purchase of the O405Gs. THey must have been modified to accomodate. If LTA does approve SMRT's logic (which I hope they will), they will find a way.
Yes, long distance should go express or atleast partial express, I agree. More favourable to DDs also. Because a long distance service with DD currently is too inefficient with very long run times so nobody will choose this as a route.
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Long haul routes wont be cut for sure,most probably amend to ply a bit of express or to other routings,Only thing that for sure LTA wont introduced any sort of svc 5 like of distance anymore.
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
Long haul routes wont be cut for sure,most probably amend to ply a bit of express or to other routings,Only thing that for sure LTA wont introduced any sort of svc 5 like of distance anymore.
Svc 5 is jialat la.
City centre + PIE + busy arterial roads + countryside + small roads all in one
Most prone to jams, everytime buses take 30-35 mins to arrive
They should either split it in two, or intro a 5e...
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No choice la,small country with a population of 5.5m and counting,you split into three also stuck here and there.We dont really need long haul but just a mid haul svc that hit 20km per direction is sufficient..109 one fine example..Whats the use of trunks if the distance is shorter than feeder?
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Originally posted by SMB128B:
Svc 5 is jialat la.
City centre + PIE + busy arterial roads + countryside + small roads all in one
Most prone to jams, everytime buses take 30-35 mins to arrive
They should either split it in two, or intro a 5e...
semi-express is good for public transport if LTA has bus lane timing on slip road the link the bus service to express etc like 190 from PIE to steven road, as one accident on that slip road mean no way traffic can pass though that road. also has this "give way to public bus" rule on first lane of expressway like the YOG service bus. fail to give way mean fine. has semi-express service like 23 59 5 LTA can help to reduce mrt load
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kthxbye
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Originally posted by SBS7557R:
If HK can do well without bendies, why can't SG? We just need more education to encourage pax to move to the upper deck (except the less mobile and wheelchair-bound which I understand).
HK has a population density of 6544 persons per sq km, much tighter than Singapore's 7615 persons per sq km. With our limited land space and smaller integrated transport hubs, having DDs & SDs only will work better for the country.
If deploying DDs for short routes are not economical, a full SD fleet can work out too. 1 eg is 238 during peak hours, which has to operate full SD bcos of the road restrictions along Lor 8 TPY. While 1 bus is picking up pax at the sv238 berth in the int, another bus will be scheduled behind to depart later to clear up the pax left behind by the front bus. Even sv806 (currently using bendies) has to practice this in Yishun currently.
As for height and road space restrictions than does not permit DDs to be deployed, we should have supplementary routes introduced running parallel to such services, but skips the stretch of roads with height/road space restrictions. As for CGA, it is really up to LTA to bother designing a new DD-friendly bus int/ter for the services.
As for a super short route like 902, I wouldn't even say it's needed if 169 is able to operate at better frequencies compared to now. Otherwise, it should have been introduced as SWT 169B.
HK bus services are structurally different from ours, much more routes with express sectors. even those without express sectors do not stop at every single bus stop along the road, saving time. the distance between bus stop here is too short, adding unneeded time to both the service runtime and commuter journey times. (are singaporeans so damn lazy to walk they need bus stops every 200-300m???)
back to the point, most of their services are in such a way that the first half of the bus route is when commuters board and then the second half is alighting, hence their fare structure. eg $2 fare if you board at any first 6 stops, $1 fare for next 6 stops and $0.50 for next six stops (very short sector near terminating point, not much people will board). so not much turnover and no problem of double deck buses stoning at bus stops because of a huge amount of people boarding and alighting at the same time, generally its either only boarding or alighting at a bus stop.
also, hong kong doesn't have many routes that are structured in a way like our 'feeders' with have high turnover rates at every bus stop. residential estates are adequately served by MTR and trunk services that pass through the estates, including variations of trunk services that are specially diverted into estates during peak hours. there is no extreme centralization that our transport system suffers from, pumping all passengers from trains and trunk routes into feeder routes that can barely cope. (hub and spoke) just think of two huge canals chanelling water into one small drain.
a radical change in our bus routes' structures is needed if we were to entirely ditch bendies for dds.
i think most people who have gone to HK will understand what i am trying to say about the way their routes and systems are structured
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I thought most HK commuters take long distance..I seldom see pax take bus for 2-3 stops while i was in HK except those mini buses.
If any manufacturers can came out with a 3 doors 2 staircases under 12.3m tri axles DD then we dont see the need of bendy buses here,Else have to live with it.Why need to give way to buses everytime?If no then fine ah?Thats prove that Sg drivers is really not consoderate at all to the world?Already those near bus stops proved many accidents amd near misses somemore expressways have to give way also ah?
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I totally agree with TIB868X. I have been to HK 2X in the past 3 years and I always wondered why HK can do so well with DDs while Singapore got so much problem.
And yes he is right, there are no feeder service routes like in Singapore. Their bus system structure is very different. Buses there are mostly alternatives to their MTR and not a mode to just take to nearest MTR and transfer. In Singapore people will take bus to MRT and transfer mostly. You will not encounter DDs in HK where upper deck is so empty and lower deck full of people, also partially due to HK people being more willing to go up (I suppose). And in HK their bus industry is competitive. You can have 2-3 companies running very similar bus routes and this makes crowd distribution better (you dont see this in SIngapore too).
No point blindly saying HK and UK can use DDs only, why cant we! Please analyse their systems before commenting. If Singapore bus industry becomes like HK and UK in terms of routes I will say forget about bendys. But since this is pretty unlikely, best to do is DDs for trunk and Bendy/SD for feeder.
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If 3 door 2 staircase, I rather just SD. because inthat configuration you are reducing floor area on the lower deck as well... If people just dun wanna go up how? Lagi worse. I know can educate people to go up but look at how soceity structure. We are an aging population and this aging population issue will only get worse in the next 40 years (its a fact). Unless expect all the old people to be fit enough to go up and down for a few stops, it is not a good idea.
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With 2 staircase and 3 doors plus a few seats at lower deck dont you think commuters go up and down?Got choice mah rather than scared stuck at upper level due to single staircase and crowded lower deck due to narrow aisle and 2 doors only?
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Considering our population structure in the next 40 years (aging), such a design will face heavy criticism from the old people. It is a wise choice in a developing country facing population growth but not in developed country with aging population. now cannot climb up, cannot even sit down (leaving just a few seats on lower deck sure not enough for all). And lets say they really decide to go up and are not as agile, they will take longer to ascend and descend the steps. Also increase dwell times. As it is sgporeans already got so much to complain about our public transport, LTA will not take the risk. Better to stick with bendy/SD i feel.