Originally posted by SMB3095S:SMB3612A under WPDEP. (If I am not wrong)
Is WLBP as stated before.
Actually for 860, if SMRT can manage to run it with a full A22 fleet at such high frequency without DDs, I think the route might not be DD-friendly?
After all, 860 is BSEP so LTA would have defintely done something to deploy DDs on the service if it could , given that 983 has DDs (comparing case to case, given some circumstances). Even if AMDEP was not DD-friendly before, LTA would have made SMRT deploy from WLDEP for 860 if it could IMO. Definetly its gonna cost SMRT and LTA more to run so many A22s on that service as opposed to a mix of SDs/DDs right. Only advantage I can think of for maintaining full A22 fleet is the service efficiency, but I dont think LTA has cared too much about that.
When LTA starts to take those BSEP buses away from SMRT to handover to TT and SMRT has to deploy its own fleet, maybe SMRT will consider bendys for this service, be it O405Gs or A24s.
Originally posted by randomguy10:Actually for 860, if SMRT can manage to run it with a full A22 fleet at such high frequency without DDs, I think the route might not be DD-friendly?
After all, 860 is BSEP so LTA would have defintely done something to deploy DDs on the service if it could , given that 983 has DDs (comparing case to case, given some circumstances). Even if AMDEP was not DD-friendly before, LTA would have made SMRT deploy from WLDEP for 860 if it could IMO. Definetly its gonna cost SMRT and LTA more to run so many A22s on that service as opposed to a mix of SDs/DDs right. Only advantage I can think of for maintaining full A22 fleet is the service efficiency, but I dont think LTA has cared too much about that.
When LTA starts to take those BSEP buses away from SMRT to handover to TT and SMRT has to deploy its own fleet, maybe SMRT will consider bendys for this service, be it O405Gs or A24s.
How is the route not DD friendly when 850E runs DDs along Ring road stretch towards Khatib??
How many services would LTA/SMRT transfer to WPDEP bcoz AMDEP cant take in DDs? In meantime, didn't have choice but to go on adding A22s.
Even after transfer to TT, doubtful 860 will get many bendies... A24s order is so little that it is out of question... and 860 is WAB so all the non-WAB bendies are useless... at max 2-3 can get deployed... So sooner or later 860 needs to get DDs.
Also we have to note 860 loading is crazy even though the flats from st 41 to ave 4 on both side of ring road are still under construction. Once they are ready in 2016/2017... 860 will be more like 291 fleet with maximum DDs.
Originally posted by randomguy10:Actually for 860, if SMRT can manage to run it with a full A22 fleet at such high frequency without DDs, I think the route might not be DD-friendly?
After all, 860 is BSEP so LTA would have defintely done something to deploy DDs on the service if it could , given that 983 has DDs (comparing case to case, given some circumstances). Even if AMDEP was not DD-friendly before, LTA would have made SMRT deploy from WLDEP for 860 if it could IMO. Definetly its gonna cost SMRT and LTA more to run so many A22s on that service as opposed to a mix of SDs/DDs right. Only advantage I can think of for maintaining full A22 fleet is the service efficiency, but I dont think LTA has cared too much about that.
When LTA starts to take those BSEP buses away from SMRT to handover to TT and SMRT has to deploy its own fleet, maybe SMRT will consider bendys for this service, be it O405Gs or A24s.
But again its kinda wasted using 16 buses for such route..LTA doesnt want bendy for their BSEP leh.The only way is to further extend and deployed DDs.
Hopefully 3611 sent to AMDEP
SMB3534S on 975 today...spotted 0720hrs at Lot One stop...should be epull do downroute from somewhere...
Originally posted by SMB42P:SMB3534S on 975 today...spotted 0720hrs at Lot One stop...should be epull do downroute from somewhere...
Maybe downroute from Brickland road to cater to AM peak load towards CCK MRT.
2 DDs from 972 will cross to 975 in the morning, to downroute to BPJ... SMB3569S 975 today as well...
Originally posted by TIB1234T:2 DDs from 972 will cross to 975 in the morning, to downroute to BPJ... SMB3569S 975 today as well...
Just what I thought... makes sense to do downroute on 975 before the DDs hit the road for 972...
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:Just what I thought... makes sense to do downroute on 975 before the DDs hit the road for 972...
Thats nice! Though bus was almost empty when i saw 3534S yesterday at around 720am (coz most ppl have alighted at lot one stop...)
Is this a new move that started yesterday?
All I'm saying is that LTA and SMRT probably had their reasons to not deploy DDs on 860. I don't think extending 860 route will give them a reason to deploy DDs because 983 route is shorter than 860 and it still gets DDs almost full fleet. Next, even if SMRT doesn't want DDs, LTA has final say for this BSEP route. And it can't be because LTA doesn't want DDs on its routes because the fundamentals besides BSEP is providing more capacity. LTA has been upgrading SDs to DDs in most cases instead of fleet add so my elimination method only brought me to conclude it must be with the route? Unless, there might be other reasons. Does 850E duplicate the whole of 860? Also 850E for its route changed recently also.
When LTA takes over BSEP buses and not service 860, SMRT will have to deploy its own buses so let's see what they do. Even if LTA wanted to use those Bendys now, they can't cos they are not BSEP. And let's just say LTA doesn't prioritise getting Bendys for now because there are still too many around than what would be needed for the future bus fleet of singapore. DDs get priority to upgrade SMRT's trunks that have been severely neglected.
Originally posted by randomguy10:All I'm saying is that LTA and SMRT probably had their reasons to not deploy DDs on 860. I don't think extending 860 route will give them a reason to deploy DDs because 983 route is shorter than 860 and it still gets DDs almost full fleet. Next, even if SMRT doesn't want DDs, LTA has final say for this BSEP route. And it can't be because LTA doesn't want DDs on its routes because the fundamentals besides BSEP is providing more capacity. LTA has been upgrading SDs to DDs in most cases instead of fleet add so my elimination method only brought me to conclude it must be with the route? Unless, there might be other reasons. Does 850E duplicate the whole of 860? Also 850E for its route changed recently also.
When LTA takes over BSEP buses and not service 860, SMRT will have to deploy its own buses so let's see what they do. Even if LTA wanted to use those Bendys now, they can't cos they are not BSEP. And let's just say LTA doesn't prioritise getting Bendys for now because there are still too many around than what would be needed for the future bus fleet of singapore. DDs get priority to upgrade SMRT's trunks that have been severely neglected.
I don't see a reason why you mention 850E's route amendment. DDs were already deployed on 850E before the route amendment, so the old 850E route must be DD-friendly. It makes no sense to say that the deleted sector suddenly became DD-unfriendly just because 850E changed its route.
Plus, even after 850E's amendment, it still duplicates a significant portion of 860.
106 should have more DDs
Originally posted by randomguy10:All I'm saying is that LTA and SMRT probably had their reasons to not deploy DDs on 860. I don't think extending 860 route will give them a reason to deploy DDs because 983 route is shorter than 860 and it still gets DDs almost full fleet. Next, even if SMRT doesn't want DDs, LTA has final say for this BSEP route. And it can't be because LTA doesn't want DDs on its routes because the fundamentals besides BSEP is providing more capacity. LTA has been upgrading SDs to DDs in most cases instead of fleet add so my elimination method only brought me to conclude it must be with the route? Unless, there might be other reasons. Does 850E duplicate the whole of 860? Also 850E for its route changed recently also.
When LTA takes over BSEP buses and not service 860, SMRT will have to deploy its own buses so let's see what they do. Even if LTA wanted to use those Bendys now, they can't cos they are not BSEP. And let's just say LTA doesn't prioritise getting Bendys for now because there are still too many around than what would be needed for the future bus fleet of singapore. DDs get priority to upgrade SMRT's trunks that have been severely neglected.
The reason to me is pretty clear - it has nothing to do with the route... as 860 route can manage with DDs.
The reason is that before AMDEP became DD friendly, LTA already upsized sv 860 fleet to 16 buses from a fleet of 07 buses last year... so you can see 09 buses were added... With a frequency of 03-05 mins during peak hours, and 860 managing the load very well... LTA now does not see immediate need to upgrade SD --> DD when it has a lot more challenges with other SMRT trunk routes.
860 SDs in AM take around 50-60 pax these days because of bunching... and PM is around 40-60 pax depending on bus arrival... In general... 16 buses is too much for the route.
In future, I do expect some buses to be cut and converted to DD... Also note that Ring road between ave 11 and ave 4 still has lot of construction and new flats that will open.
By Q4 2016/Q1 2017... sv 860 will have a fleet of say 12 DDs, 4 SDs... similar to sv 291.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:The reason to me is pretty clear - it has nothing to do with the route... as 860 route can manage with DDs.
The reason is that before AMDEP became DD friendly, LTA already upsized sv 860 fleet to 16 buses from a fleet of 07 buses last year... so you can see 09 buses were added... With a frequency of 03-05 mins during peak hours, and 860 managing the load very well... LTA now does not see immediate need to upgrade SD --> DD when it has a lot more challenges with other SMRT trunk routes.
860 SDs in AM take around 50-60 pax these days because of bunching... and PM is around 40-60 pax depending on bus arrival... In general... 16 buses is too much for the route.
In future, I do expect some buses to be cut and converted to DD... Also note that Ring road between ave 11 and ave 4 still has lot of construction and new flats that will open.
By Q4 2016/Q1 2017... sv 860 will have a fleet of say 12 DDs, 4 SDs... similar to sv 291.
Yaa. Service 860 can have that many DDs in the future when population in Yishun has increased. But for now 860 can have 2 to 3 DDs for a start.
I believe if LTA want DD(s) on 860, they would have done that long ago...
...not because AMDEP cannot take DD or whatever reason..
I believe 983 commuters are mostly students/residents that seldom visits those markets? You don't see the svc stopping by any markets unlike 860.
Getting more BSEP DD for SMRT? Unlikely. SMRT needs more manpower as of now too. When the manpower expand, A22s BSEP expand + more routes created by LTA.
And I believe LTA could work on 860's journey time and frequency. Base on my last ride on 860, the waiting time is still long for PM peak. The feel of "BSEP waiting time" was there...could have dispatch quickly and even faster imo..
Originally posted by TIB429E:I believe if LTA want DD(s) on 860, they would have done that long ago...
...not because AMDEP cannot take DD or whatever reason..
I believe 983 commuters are mostly students/residents that seldom visits those markets? You don't see the svc stopping by any markets unlike 860.
Getting more BSEP DD for SMRT? Unlikely. SMRT needs more manpower as of now too. When the manpower expand, A22s BSEP expand + more routes created by LTA.
And I believe LTA could work on 860's journey time and frequency. Base on my last ride on 860, the waiting time is still long for PM peak. The feel of "BSEP waiting time" was there...could have dispatch quickly and even faster imo..
860 waiting time now is 03-05 mins... Is that not good? In my last 2 observations, the maximum waiting time was 07 mins... and that too followed with two MAN A22s coming together. For a route whose runtime is 60 mins... you have 16 buses.
Actually 860 just need 9 A22s with 5 DDs crossovers from other service during peak hours and full day DDs on weekends.
190 got more than 10 DD. 972 add 8 more. 854 needs 19 DD. 187 needs 23 DDs. 172 needs 6 DDs. 171 needs 9 DDs.
Originally posted by TIB429E:I believe if LTA want DD(s) on 860, they would have done that long ago...
...not because AMDEP cannot take DD or whatever reason..
I believe 983 commuters are mostly students/residents that seldom visits those markets? You don't see the svc stopping by any markets unlike 860.
Getting more BSEP DD for SMRT? Unlikely. SMRT needs more manpower as of now too. When the manpower expand, A22s BSEP expand + more routes created by LTA.
And I believe LTA could work on 860's journey time and frequency. Base on my last ride on 860, the waiting time is still long for PM peak. The feel of "BSEP waiting time" was there...could have dispatch quickly and even faster imo..
If SMRT needs more manpower, the first thing they need to do is SD -> DD conversion and then some SD fleet reduction on 860 to cut manpower and reduce bunching, while frequency and capacity of 860 remains almost the same.
Which service does 5055U crossover to after doing AM trip on 176. 5054 crosses over to sv 176...
It is a total waste if 5055 does only 1 trip a day.
Originally posted by array88:If SMRT needs more manpower, the first thing they need to do is SD -> DD conversion and then some SD fleet reduction on 860 to cut manpower and reduce bunching, while frequency and capacity of 860 remains almost the same.
Agreed.
171 needs 19 DDs. The trees at Mandai Road will be chopped off
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:860 waiting time now is 03-05 mins... Is that not good? In my last 2 observations, the maximum waiting time was 07 mins... and that too followed with two MAN A22s coming together. For a route whose runtime is 60 mins... you have 16 buses.
PM peak doesn't seems like 3-5mins though..gotta check again.
Originally posted by array88:If SMRT needs more manpower, the first thing they need to do is SD -> DD conversion and then some SD fleet reduction on 860 to cut manpower and reduce bunching, while frequency and capacity of 860 remains almost the same.
Yes that's one straight forward option.
But now, Yishun could easily get another new BSEP svc rather than fleet add. Comparing to 983(CCK), it's limited now.
I believe LTA didn't put DDs on 860 straight away is because they (also) want to boost the manpower "stress load" on SMRT. Further more, there could be some new BSEP svc coming up. If, by then, the loading stays, DD upgrade will the be option.
That's my point of view ; because if you just deploy DD to the svc, downgrades here and there will be seen. No. of drivers won't increase faster.