Route Suggestions (Part 6)
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Originally posted by Path Light:
Bad job for 171. 171 is a catchy route from Yishun to Marina Centre. Hopefully 171 can be extended to Shenton Way
Nope. BPJ is quite well connected to Orchard, CBD and Marina
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Service 171:
Jurong East > Shenton WayNote that "Green" is new bus stops
Jurong Gateway Road
Jurong East Central
Jurong Town Hall Road
Ayer Rajah Expressway
Central Expressway
Outram Road
Eu Tong Sen Street
Hill Street
Victoria Street
Bras Basah Road
Raffles Boulevard
Bayfront Avenue
Central Boulevard
Shenton Way
Palmer Road
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Originally posted by SBS 9256 X:I agree also. A faster alternative route to Marina Centre is 857. I think too many duplication for Svc 171.
Bukit Panjang - Orchard: 190, 972
Bukit Panjang - Marina Centre: 960I will think that Svc 171 is the service that will be amended... Maybe extend to Yew Tee besides with the extension to 983?
Let's consider some key points on the 171 route.
- (A) Yishun Int
- (B) Bt Panjang east
- (C) Bt Panjang west
- (D) Beauty World / Pei Hwa / KAP
- (E) Botanic Gardens
- (F) Stevens
- (G) Newton Circus
- (H) Orchard
- (I) Promenade / Marina Centre
- C-G directly follows DTL2, and has the most duplications. C-F follows 67 & 170, while G-I follows 700. However, C-B-F-H is more effectively served by 190, 700 and 972. Also, A-E-D is back-uped by 852.
- Most of the demand is between A-C/D. Some demand for D/E-H; depending on the Newton MRT transit area, this may or may not be transferred over to DTL.
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Consider the transport links without 171 (A-C is only served by 171, and must remain):
- From A: A-D is also served by 852, while A-G/H/I has alternative services 167, 851, 857 and 980, beside the MRT. A-E/F is unique, but demand is low and an MRT transfer from Newton is more efficient.
- From B: B-D has 184. B-E is a little difficult, but 700 can be amended there if need be.
- From C: Aside for A-C, no problems: 67, 170, DTL up to Newton, and the rest covered by 190, 700, 972.
- From D: No problems. E/F/G all covered by 66, 67, 170 and DTL. D-H also has 77 & 174, D-I also has 75 & 77.
- From E: Unique link to B and H/I.
- From F/G/H/I: Alternatives present to A/B/C/D. Only E-H/I is not directly served.
Thus, if rationalisation is desireable, a suitable cutting point would be near D or E, with additional links for E-B and E-H/I.
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Possible adjustment of 171:
- (Cut at C): Yishun - Bt Panjang MRT - BPJ BP / CCK Int / BB Int / Yew Tee (loop) (the most extremist cut; this is undesirable, as Yishun - Bt Timah would be left out and 852 is still quite unreliable)
- (Cut at D): Yishun - Beauty World - PIE - Clementi Ave 6 / MRT / Ave 2 - West Coast Rd - Kent Ridge Term. (duplicates 184?)
- (Cut at D): Yishun - Beauty World - Toh Tuck - Toh Guan - Jurong East (merger with 41 ...?)
- (Cut after D): Yishun - Dunearn Rd - Sixth Ave - Holland Rd - Buona Vista Term. (duplicates 970?)
- (Cut at E): Yishun - Dunearn Rd - Farrer Rd - Holland Rd - Buona Vista Term.
- (not going to extend to Toa Payoh / Whompoa, as there's 154 and 186 respectively)
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Possible adjustment to other services:
- 700: Reroute to serve Eng Neo Ave - Dunearn Rd (TKK / Botanic Gardens).
- 41: Extension. Jurong East - Beauty World - Marina Centre.
- 971: Bt Panjang - BKE - PIE - Beauty World - Dunearn Rd - Marina Centre
- 971: Bt Panjang - BKE - PIE - Eng Neo - Dunearn Rd - Marina Centre
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Just some wild ideas of course.
The best thing to do right now is to wait for DTL2 opening and observe the change in loading before attempting any amendments.
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Originally posted by AJQZC:
Let's consider some key points on the 171 route.
- (A) Yishun Int
- (B) Bt Panjang east
- (C) Bt Panjang west
- (D) Beauty World / Pei Hwa / KAP
- (E) Botanic Gardens
- (F)
Stevens
- (G) Newton Circus
- (H) Orchard
- (I) Promenade / Marina Centre
- C-G directly follows DTL2, and has the most duplications: C-F follows 67 & 170, while G-I follows 700. However, C-B-F-H is more effectively served by 190, 700 and 972. Also, A-E-D is back-uped by 852.
- Most of the demand is between A-C/D. Some demand for D/E-H; depending on the Newton MRT transit area, this may or may not be transferred over to DTL.
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Consider the transport links without 171 (A-C is only served by 171, and must remain):
- From A: A-D is also served by 852, while
A-G/H/I has alternative services 167, 851, 857 and 980, beside the
MRT. A-E/F is unique, but
demand is low and an MRT transfer from Newton is more
efficient.
- From B: B-D has 184. B-E is a little difficult, but 700 can be amended there if need be.
- From C: Aside
for A-C, no problems: 67, 170, DTL up to Newton, and the
rest covered by 190, 700, 972.
- From D: No problems. E/F/G all covered by 66, 67, 170 and DTL. D-H also has 77 & 174, D-I also has 75 & 77.
- From E: Unique
link to B and
H/I.
- From F/G/H/I: Alternatives present to A/B/C/D.
Only E-H/I is not directly
served.
Thus, if rationalisation is desireable, a suitable cutting point would be near D or E, with additional links for E-B and E-H/I.
wow im impressed
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Originally posted by AJQZC:
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Possible adjustment of 171:
- (Cut at C): Yishun - Bt Panjang MRT - BPJ BP / CCK Int / BB Int / Yew Tee (loop) (the most extremist cut; this is undesirable, as Yishun - Bt Timah would be left out and 852 is still quite unreliable)
- (Cut at D): Yishun - Beauty World - PIE - Clementi Ave 6 / MRT / Ave 2 - West Coast Rd - Kent Ridge Term. (duplicates 184?)
- (Cut at D): Yishun - Beauty World - Toh Tuck - Toh Guan - Jurong East (merger with 41 ...?)
- (Cut after D): Yishun - Dunearn Rd - Sixth Ave - Holland Rd - Buona Vista Term. (duplicates 970?)
- (Cut at E): Yishun - Dunearn Rd - Farrer Rd - Holland Rd - Buona Vista Term.
- (not going to extend to Toa Payoh / Whompoa, as there's 154 and 186 respectively)
===================================================
Possible adjustment to other services:
- 700: Reroute to serve Eng Neo Ave - Dunearn Rd (TKK / Botanic Gardens).
- 41: Extension. Jurong East - Beauty World - Marina Centre.
- 971: Bt Panjang - BKE - PIE - Beauty World - Dunearn Rd - Marina Centre
- 971: Bt Panjang - BKE - PIE - Eng Neo - Dunearn Rd - Marina Centre
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Just some wild ideas of course.
The best thing to do right now is to wait for DTL2 opening and observe the change in loading before attempting any amendments.
I don't think you can turn right to Eng Neo Avenue from Bukit Timah Road ?
Only Vehicles from Eng Neo Avenue can turn right to Bukit Timah Road.. still .. not possible to reroute 700.
41 ? Mainly that service is more for "shuttle" between NSL/EWL to DTL station. So extension to Marina Centre may or may not be possible (probably like 858 kind back in 1996, major extension to Changi Airport)
971 Bt Panjang - BKE - PIE - Beauty World seems to be long winded though
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Originally posted by Bussyboy50:
I don't think you can turn right to Eng Neo Avenue from Bukit Timah Road ?
Only Vehicles from Eng Neo Avenue can turn right to Bukit Timah Road.. still .. not possible to reroute 700.
Can do a 77(towards marina centre) from dunearn road to sixth ave; there's a u-turn after sixth ave/bt timah rd traffic light.
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Originally posted by Bussyboy50:
I don't think you can turn right to Eng Neo Avenue from Bukit Timah Road ?
Only Vehicles from Eng Neo Avenue can turn right to Bukit Timah Road.. still .. not possible to reroute 700.
If you do not consider U-turns, the return journey can be done via Bt Timah Rd --> Adam Rd --> PIE. Of course that'd mean skipping the schools further down unfortunately.
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Originally posted by AJQZC:
===================================================
Possible adjustment of 171:
- (Cut at C): Yishun - Bt Panjang MRT - BPJ BP / CCK Int / BB Int / Yew Tee (loop) (the most extremist cut; this is undesirable, as Yishun - Bt Timah would be left out and 852 is still quite unreliable)
- (Cut at D): Yishun - Beauty World - PIE - Clementi Ave 6 / MRT / Ave 2 - West Coast Rd - Kent Ridge Term. (duplicates 184?)
- (Cut at D): Yishun - Beauty World - Toh Tuck - Toh Guan - Jurong East (merger with 41 ...?)
- (Cut after D): Yishun - Dunearn Rd - Sixth Ave - Holland Rd - Buona Vista Term. (duplicates 970?)
- (Cut at E): Yishun - Dunearn Rd - Farrer Rd - Holland Rd - Buona Vista Term.
- (not going to extend to Toa Payoh / Whompoa, as there's 154 and 186 respectively)
===================================================
Possible adjustment to other services:
- 700: Reroute to serve Eng Neo Ave - Dunearn Rd (TKK / Botanic Gardens).
- 41: Extension. Jurong East - Beauty World - Marina Centre.
- 971: Bt Panjang - BKE - PIE - Beauty World - Dunearn Rd - Marina Centre
- 971: Bt Panjang - BKE - PIE - Eng Neo - Dunearn Rd - Marina Centre
===================================================
Just some wild ideas of course.
The best thing to do right now is to wait for DTL2 opening and observe the change in loading before attempting any amendments.
If cutting at point C, surely LTA and SMRT will do something with 852.
Cutting with D to KRT doesn't really duplicate with 184, but from C'wealth Ave West onwards duplicates 201.
Actually the idea of merger with 41 is out.
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Originally posted by AJQZC:
There are enough buses covering Clementi - West Coast, Jurong East - West Coast and Clementi - Jurong East ... so unless there's sufficient demand between Yew Tee and Clementi / West Coast, there's not quite a need for the Jurong East - Clementi section.
Also consider that 160, 176 and 184 are quite easily available near Bt Panjang MRT Station.
West Coast Highway does need a new service. -
On 171:
- Newton is NOT an interchange between NSL and DTL.
(Bukit Panjang is also not an interchange beween DTL and BPLRT but I would not elaborate here)
- The only transfer linkway at NSL Newton is near Exit A (at the right-angle turn after the escalator). As it's not feasible to relocate the fare gates (unlike NSL/CCL Marina Bay), this means that whoever wants to transfer from NSL and DTL will need to tap out at NSL, go to the transfer linkway, and tap in again at DTL.
- If you go to DTL Newton Exit C at Bt Timah Rd, you will see the station code is only DT11, without NS21.
- Bus stop at Bt Timah Rd has separate sighboards for DTL and NSL.
- If I'm not wrong, LTA did mention that fare calculation methods will be adjusted when DTL opens. But still, be mentally prepared that a 'transfer' between DTL and NSL will not be counted.
- Agree mostly with AJQZC, but:
- 171 is the only service from Bukit Timah to Newton NSL (besides 700 that serves some bus stops). Which is important due to inconvenient transfers between DTL and NSL; and those going to City Hall / Raffles Place can also transfer to NSL as well. (similarly 700 is also an important service connectiong to Newton NSL - I will post in loading levels thread later.)
- 171 is also the only service from Bukit Timah to Bukit Panjang interior. This is often used by students in schools along Bukit Timah, although its populatiry remains uncertain after DTL opens.
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Originally posted by array88:
West Coast Highway does need a new service.
West Coast Highway is already so fucked up during peak hours. Always have traffic jams. I do not think it is wise to have another bus service there. -
Originally posted by array88:
On 171:
- Newton is NOT an interchange between NSL and DTL.
(To be continued)
Erm it is. Newton is interchange between NSL and DTL.
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Originally posted by array88:
On 171:
- Newton is NOT an interchange between NSL and DTL.
(Bukit Panjang is also not an interchange beween DTL and BPLRT but I would not elaborate here)
- The only transfer linkway at NSL Newton is near Exit A (at the right-angle turn after the escalator). As it's not feasible to relocate the fare gates (unlike NSL/CCL Marina Bay), this means that whoever wants to transfer from NSL and DTL will need to tap out at NSL, go to the transfer linkway, and tap in again at DTL.
- If you go to DTL Newton Exit C at Bt Timah Rd, you will see the station code is only DT11, without NS21.
- Bus stop at Bt Timah Rd has separate sighboards for DTL and NSL.
- If I'm not wrong, LTA did mention that fare calculation methods will be adjusted when DTL opens. But still, be mentally prepared that a 'transfer' between DTL and NSL will not be counted.
- Agree mostly with AJQZC, but:
- 171 is the only service from Bukit Timah to Newton NSL (besides 700 that serves some bus stops). Which is important due to inconvenient transfers between DTL and NSL; and those going to City Hall / Raffles Place can also transfer to NSL as well. (similarly 700 is also an important service connectiong to Newton NSL - I will post in loading levels thread later.)
- 171 is also the only service from Bukit Timah to Bukit Panjang interior. This is often used by students in schools along Bukit Timah, although its populatiry remains uncertain after DTL opens.
Hi mr array88, Newton is an interchange between NSL and DTL. Don't worry. The fares will be adjusted and just be mentally prepared that a transfer will be counted when the time comes by. Cheers. Thanks.
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr array88, Newton is an interchange between NSL and DTL. Don't worry. The fares will be adjusted and just be mentally prepared that a transfer will be counted when the time comes by. Cheers. Thanks.
Even if it is, the fare gates will be super super crowded. I'm sure you have seen the crowds at Dhoby Ghaut transfer linkways. Imagine all of them will need to tap out at the few fare gates at NSL Newton, and tap in again at DTL Newton. -
Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr array88, Newton is an interchange between NSL and DTL. Don't worry. The fares will be adjusted and just be mentally prepared that a transfer will be counted when the time comes by. Cheers. Thanks.
I believe it will be the same for DTL3 Tampines Interchange in future.
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I think there should be a route that simply serves downtown Singapore. Simple as that.
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126
St Michael - Ghim Moh
- Whampoa Rd
- Jalan Bahagia
- Balestier Rd
- Lavender St
- Crawford St
- Republic Ave (Non Stop)
- Republic Blvd (Non Stop)
- Raffles Ave
- Stamford Rd
- Orchard Rd
- Penang Rd
- Somerset Rd
- Grange Rd (Non Stop)
- Orchard Link
- Orchard Turn
- Orchard Blvd (Non Stop)
- Patterson Rd (Non Stop)
- Scotts Rd
- Newton Rd
- Bukit Timah Rd
- Dunearn Rd
- Sixth Ave
- Holland Rd
- Holland Ave
- C'wealth Ave
- Ghim Moh Rd
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Originally posted by SBS9252G:
126
St Michael - Ghim Moh
- Whampoa Rd
- Jalan Bahagia
- Balestier Rd
- Lavender St
- Crawford St
- Republic Ave (Non Stop)
- Republic Blvd (Non Stop)
- Raffles Ave
- Stamford Rd
- Orchard Rd
- Penang Rd
- Somerset Rd
- Grange Rd (Non Stop)
- Orchard Link
- Orchard Turn
- Orchard Blvd (Non Stop)
- Patterson Rd (Non Stop)
- Scotts Rd
- Newton Rd
- Bukit Timah Rd
- Dunearn Rd
- Sixth Ave
- Holland Rd
- Holland Ave
- C'wealth Ave
- Ghim Moh Rd
Hi mr SBS9252G, sbs 111 current serves ghim moh to whole stretch of orchard. Will it be better if your 126 serves another sector to reduce heavy duplication? Moreover, some ghim moh residents walk over to holland road to take Sbs 7 or smrt 77 to get to orchard. So I think there is no need for yet another service to connect to orchard. Cheers. Thanks.
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Possible amendment to service 193:
- Jurong West Ctrl 3
- JW St 64
- JW Ave 4
- Pioneer Rd North
- Lok Yang Way
- Sixth Lok Yang Rd
- International Rd
- Benoi Rd
- Upp Jurong Rd
- PIE
- Tuas Rd
- (usual route to Tuas Terminal)
- Tuas Term
Partially retracting back to the original route before Joo Koon Int route amendment. Close vicinity to Joo Koon remains at Int'l Rd bus stop. Skipped bus stops along Jln Ahmad Ibrahim still served by 192.
- Jurong West Ctrl 3
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr SBS9252G, sbs 111 current serves ghim moh to whole stretch of orchard. Will it be better if your 126 serves another sector to reduce heavy duplication? Moreover, some ghim moh residents walk over to holland road to take Sbs 7 or smrt 77 to get to orchard. So I think there is no need for yet another service to connect to orchard. Cheers. Thanks.
SBS9252G had suggested an important missing link between ghim moh, holland and dunearn road. There are many education institutions, NJC, Hwa Chong, Chinese High, and yet there are no transport links to them from nearby ghim moh or holland estates.
In fact an extension of SBST48 to Ghim Moh, shall benefit GM residents alot, easier access to the future Botanic Gardens Downtown/Circle interchange.
MediaCorp to move to Mediapolis@one-north very soon. No improvement to the public transport routes there? SBST91/191 can still copt?
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Originally posted by iamgoondu:
SBS9252G had suggested an important missing link between ghim moh, holland and dunearn road. There are many education institutions, NJC, Hwa Chong, Chinese High, and yet there are no transport links to them from nearby ghim moh or holland estates.
In fact an extension of SBST48 to Ghim Moh, shall benefit GM residents alot, easier access to the future Botanic Gardens Downtown/Circle interchange.
MediaCorp to move to Mediapolis@one-north very soon. No improvement to the public transport routes there? SBST91/191 can still copt?
Hi mr iamgoondu, there is the evergreen Sbs 74 for ghim moh residents to walk across the underpass to take at bus stop opposite buona vista mrt station. Sbs 74 is also in abundance and frequency is good. Cheers. Thanks.
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr iamgoondu, there is the evergreen Sbs 74 for ghim moh residents to walk across the underpass to take at bus stop opposite buona vista mrt station. Sbs 74 is also in abundance and frequency is good. Cheers. Thanks.
You are not resident in Ghim Moh/ Holland to have make such a suggestion. SBST74 is super long-winded, and its intended motivation is to serve the students in SP and NP and residents in Dover. SBST74 was terminated at BV for that's a nearby terminal.
Unless you have alot of time to burn, no residents in GM/Holland will take SBST74 to destination beyond Dover.
Anyway I have Circle Line to fall back. I pity the GM residents.
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Originally posted by iamgoondu:
You are not resident in Ghim Moh/ Holland to have make such a suggestion. SBST74 is super long-winded, and its intended motivation is to serve the students in SP and NP and residents in Dover. SBST74 was terminated at BV for that's a nearby terminal.
Unless you have alot of time to burn, no residents in GM/Holland will take SBST74 to destination beyond Dover.
Anyway I have Circle Line to fall back. I pity the GM residents.
Hi mr iamgoondu, you are wrong. I am an ex-resident of holland. For ghim moh and holland residents, there are many ways to go to bukit timah and dunearn road. There is really no need for introducing Sbs 126 to cover that part and indirectly also duplicate sbs 111 for orchard connection.
Ghim moh residents now can walk to holland road to take bus 77 or 970 and connect to sbs 156 to go to dunearn rd and bukit timah. They can also take sbs 165 to Farrer rd to connect to sbs 174. For holland residents, they have sbs 48. So chill down please. There are more than enough alternatives if you don't want sbs 74. I am afraid you did not analyse the traffic alternatives well. No need to pity the ghim moh residents. They are very near the buona vista mrt station which is an interchange. I can even say they are quite well pampered. Cheers. Thanks.
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Originally posted by dupdup77:
Hi mr iamgoondu, you are wrong. I am an ex-resident of holland. For ghim moh and holland residents, there are many ways to go to bukit timah and dunearn road. There is really no need for introducing Sbs 126 to cover that part and indirectly also duplicate sbs 111 for orchard connection.
Ghim moh residents now can walk to holland road to take bus 77 or 970 and connect to sbs 156 to go to dunearn rd and bukit timah. They can also take sbs 165 to Farrer rd to connect to sbs 174. For holland residents, they have sbs 48. So chill down please. There are more than enough alternatives if you don't want sbs 74. I am afraid you did not analyse the traffic alternatives well. No need to pity the ghim moh residents. They are very near the buona vista mrt station which is an interchange. I can even say they are quite well pampered. Cheers. Thanks.
From the way that you analyse, I would say there is no further improvements needed for residents in Holland and GM. The buses and trains there are well connected to nearby places and roads. And to avoid duplications, all routes heading towards BV should be avoided, bypassed and skipped. That's incorrect. Route duplication can help to complement routes that have terrible frequency, example 970 and 32.
Anyway I am not in favor of the suggested route 126, but I believe the suggestor propose it for other valid reasons.