Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr AJQZC, for new bus service, I can safely say no in terms of faster than NEL. They will definitely need to make that service go certain parts of a few towns to capture some share of the residents before embarking on expressway and also go a few towns before reaching destination. Normally it takes an equivalent timing close to taking mrt. They will never give you direct from 1 estate express all the way to just another estate unless that bus service is express which means paying premium. By saying this, they may as well not provide this kind of bus service for normal fare service. Cheers. Thanks.
Yes. But don't forget, not everyone lives near the MRT. Suppose if I live near Pending Rd, and I want to go to Nanyang Poly, making the large loop around the city is inconvenient, not to mention tiring as I will have to squeeze with other passengers. The same for some en-route areas such as Springleaf.
Based on geographical distance, it would be very useful to have a close and direct link between Bt Panjang and Yio Chu Kang (simply, for example, as an alternative to MRT), but there is none.
Originally posted by AJQZC:Yes. But don't forget, not everyone lives near the MRT. Suppose if I live near Pending Rd, and I want to go to Nanyang Poly, making the large loop around the city is inconvenient, not to mention tiring as I will have to squeeze with other passengers. The same for some en-route areas such as Springleaf.
Based on geographical distance, it would be very useful to have a close and direct link between Bt Panjang and Yio Chu Kang (simply, for example, as an alternative to MRT), but there is none.
Hi mr AJQZC, the case you listed is just one of the many cases. There are many other instances and it is not practical to fulfill all. You can take LRT to CCK and go up the red north line MRT to yio Chu Kang which is quite fast. No need go one loop around city. Cheers. Thanks.
The route suggestion posted by AJQZC:(Cross-posted at bus interchange / terminal thread)
After some thought, I shall refine my original suggestion a little - putting it down to three semi-independent schemes that may still increase the efficiency overall.
The map is here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zEEpmI3uw7s8.k1cLkPzdzugo&usp=sharing
Here goes:
===================================
Scheme A: Amendment of 857 (or some other suitable Yishun trunk)
- Yishun Int
- Yishun Ctrl 1
- Yishun Ctrl 2
- Yishun Ctrl
- Yishun Ave 4
- Yishun Ring Rd
- Yishun Ave 2
- (usual route to Suntec City)
This amendment makes good use of the DDs added to the 857 fleet to cover the link between Yishun Ave 4 (incl. the schools along the way) and Khatib MRT.
The extended stretch from Ctrl 2 to Khatib MRT is about 2,240m, an increase from the current undiverted 978m by about 1,262m or 1.26km. Two pairs of bus stops are skipped (with alternative service 855) in favour of six pairs of new stops.
Using 857 is tentative, of course, but it would be best to employ one with decent frequency (to match 812) as well as having a HC (bendy / DD) fleet.
Scheme B: Amendment of 85
- Yishun Int
- Yishun Ctrl
- Yishun Ave 2
- Yishun Ctrl 1
- Yishun Ctrl 2
- Yishun St 61
- Yishun Ring Rd
- Yishun Ave 2
- (usual route to Punggol)
This amendment makes good use of the DDs added to 85 fleet to cover the link between Yishun St 61 and Khatib MRT. The extended route is about 1.7km, an increase of about 1km from the current 700m undiverted route. It disregards the territorial concerns between SMRT and SBST, and maintains the link to Northpoint, while skipping only one pair of bus stops in favour of six pairs of new stops.
As a result of this change, 858 will skip Yishun Ctrl 1 & 2 to reduce problems for its bendys. Without 85, an alternative (and somewhat faster) link to Jln Kayu and Punggol is provided by 117.
Alternatively, this route amendment may be carried out on 117, in the event that it could cause traffic disruptions or demand problems on 85.
Scheme C: Amendment of 812 (East loop)
- Yishun Int
- Yishun Ctrl
- Yishun St 61
- Yishun Ring Rd
- Yishun St 41
- Yishun St 51
- Yishun Ave 4
- Yishun St 61
- Yishun Ctrl
- (usual route to west loop)
As a consequence of scheme A, or both A and B, 812's east loop will be less stressful / in demand. The change will allow the service to skip the northern section of Ave 4 (served by 857), and serve the newly developed areas at St 51 / 52. The bus stop at Blk 322 is still within walking distance to the bus interchange (for 857), to maintain the link to Ave 4.
Making use of 812 also eliminates the need to introduce a brand new feeder service to St 51 / 52 / 41, thus saving a berth at Yishun Temporary Interchange.
The extended route is very tentative and subject to changes. It may not necessitate implementation until the new estates are ready.
===================================
Btw - any comments?
Originally posted by AJQZC:Btw - any comments?
Hi mr AJQZC, yes I have looked through. 857 and 85 look good. As for 812, I need to take some rides on the current 812 to have a gauge of how the load is like before commenting. Cheers. Thanks.
Originally posted by AJQZC:Btw - any comments?
Please take down amendment B.
1. 858 is a better candidate to serve KTPH than 85, given the following reasons:
- 858 serves a wider scope. Sembawang, Woodlands, south of northeast, and residents in the east. Many including I myself patronise 858 to KTPH. 85 will cause inconvenience to many in exchange for little.
- 858 is much more frequent. It operates at double of 85's freq. This allows for better accessibility to KTPH.
Using the reason of "easier for bendies" is invalid as there are no apparent difficulties for bendies to turn at the junctions at these sectors. Even if there is that reason alone is unjustifiable for the removal of such a link.
2. It is unfair for commuters of svc 85. You suggested using svc 117 as an alternative, but bear in mind the main catchment of 85 is NOT Punggol, but rather Sengkang West and, to a smaller extent, Sengkang East. 85 already suffers from winding routes at Jalan Kayu which may experience catastrophic traffic during dinner hours, which also happen to be PM peak. By adding so many stops you essentially diminish the bare purpose of the route: to offer an express connection between NE and Yishun, therefore killing the route instead.
Preferably it is better to amend a feeder or Intratown instead, as it better fulfills the purpose of the amendment. Don't touch 85 and 858, they are not meant to tour towns and stop here and there. 117 too, it is routed this way for a reason.
Originally posted by SMB128B:Please take down amendment B.
1. 858 is a better candidate to serve KTPH than 85, given the following reasons:
- 858 serves a wider scope. Sembawang, Woodlands, south of northeast, and residents in the east. Many including I myself patronise 858 to KTPH. 85 will cause inconvenience to many in exchange for little.
- 858 is much more frequent. It operates at double of 85's freq. This allows for better accessibility to KTPH.
Using the reason of "easier for bendies" is invalid as there are no apparent difficulties for bendies to turn at the junctions at these sectors. Even if there is that reason alone is unjustifiable for the removal of such a link.
2. It is unfair for commuters of svc 85. You suggested using svc 117 as an alternative, but bear in mind the main catchment of 85 is NOT Punggol, but rather Sengkang West and, to a smaller extent, Sengkang East. 85 already suffers from winding routes at Jalan Kayu which may experience catastrophic traffic during dinner hours, which also happen to be PM peak. By adding so many stops you essentially diminish the bare purpose of the route: to offer an express connection between NE and Yishun, therefore killing the route instead.
Preferably it is better to amend a feeder or Intratown instead, as it better fulfills the purpose of the amendment. Don't touch 85 and 858, they are not meant to tour towns and stop here and there. 117 too, it is routed this way for a reason.
Point taken.
Though my primary purpose is to create links from Khatib MRT station to Yishun St 61 and Ave 4 (which there is currently none), so as to free up 812 for St 51 / 52. This can be most efficiently done by a trunk service, don't have to introduce a feeder or intratown just for that.
How about 853 or 855 (amend to St 61)?
853 already serving KTPH
Originally posted by dupdup77:All, please note Punggol bus interchange only has 26 parking lots. The numbers are clearly marked on the ground. It is up 2 from the previous 24. So please ignore all other numbers you see online. Cheers. Thanks.
All, sorry I made a mistake. Punggol bus interchange has 28 parking lots, up from 26. Saw the actual marking '28' on the ground just now. Cheers. Thanks.
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr AJQZC, the case you listed is just one of the many cases. There are many other instances and it is not practical to fulfill all. You can take LRT to CCK and go up the red north line MRT to yio Chu Kang which is quite fast. No need go one loop around city. Cheers. Thanks.
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr AJQZC, for new bus service, I can safely say no in terms of faster than NEL. They will definitely need to make that service go certain parts of a few towns to capture some share of the residents before embarking on expressway and also go a few towns before reaching destination. Normally it takes an equivalent timing close to taking mrt. They will never give you direct from 1 estate express all the way to just another estate unless that bus service is express which means paying premium. By saying this, they may as well not provide this kind of bus service for normal fare service. Cheers. Thanks.
"I can safely say no in terms of faster than NEL."
How about 85 (Sengkang West), 117, 27, 34, 118, 858, 965?
Originally posted by Sbs6750E:
187/963/966 tfr NSL faster.
171 tfr NSL even faster?
Originally posted by AJQZC:Point taken.
Though my primary purpose is to create links from Khatib MRT station to Yishun St 61 and Ave 4 (which there is currently none), so as to free up 812 for St 51 / 52. This can be most efficiently done by a trunk service, don't have to introduce a feeder or intratown just for that.
How about 853 or 855 (amend to St 61)?
Can consider 859... Serves Sembawang also.
Originally posted by array88:
"I can safely say no in terms of faster than NEL."How about 85 (Sengkang West), 117, 27, 34, 118, 858, 965?
Hi mr array88, you need to refer to mr AJQZC initial message. He wak asking if there is a new bus service from Bt Panjang -- Mandai Rd -- Sembawang Rd -- Yio Chu Kang -- CTE -- Sengkang West -- Sengkang. Would it be faster than NEL? Do you think the authorities will introduce such a service to connect northwest singapore and northeast singapore via northern singapore in this time when downtown line 2 is opened? This type of super long distance route will never be introduced anymore when mrt is the main mode of transport. This is nothing to relate to 85, 117, 27, 34, 118, 858, 965. Cheers. Thanks.
Originally posted by array88:
171 tfr NSL even faster?
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zHtB5K99br3o.kO2wT2RFZPMw&usp=sharing
S104: Serangoon - Bt Panjang (via Ang Mo Kio, Yio Chu Kang, Mandai Rd)
pros:
cons:
possible route changes:
Originally posted by mujiaesthetic:https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zHtB5K99br3o.kO2wT2RFZPMw&usp=sharing
S104: Serangoon - Bt Panjang (via Ang Mo Kio, Yio Chu Kang, Mandai Rd)
pros:
- amk/yck to bpj without going to city
- direct connection from nyp to amk mrt other than taking mrt
- direct connection from amk ave 3 to s'goon mrt for transfer to ccl/nel
cons:
- too long?
possible route changes:
- shorten to amk?
- ply lentor ave instead of upp thomson/sembawang to allow transfers to 39/85/117/965/969?
Sadly I don't think Serangoon has space... AMK is also quite full.
And not sure if it can use DDs.
Originally posted by mujiaesthetic:https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zHtB5K99br3o.kO2wT2RFZPMw&usp=sharing
S104: Serangoon - Bt Panjang (via Ang Mo Kio, Yio Chu Kang, Mandai Rd)
pros:
- amk/yck to bpj without going to city
- direct connection from nyp to amk mrt other than taking mrt
- direct connection from amk ave 3 to s'goon mrt for transfer to ccl/nel
cons:
- too long?
possible route changes:
- shorten to amk?
- ply lentor ave instead of upp thomson/sembawang to allow transfers to 39/85/117/965/969?
Too long. AMK Ave 3 has link to Hougang NEL & AMK Ave 3 have direct connection to AMK Stn to City, i prob people do not mind just taking 1 stop to Bishan and change line.
Another alt is that 74 has direct connection to Marymount MRT. CCL.
Service 116 & 372 extensions:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zvASY1AjT64M.ktdvOFGvP2sU&usp=sharing
116: Sengkang - Bartley Rd (Loop)
- Route diverted from Hougang 1 Mall to Sengkang, skipping Hougang Ctrl Int (where the current 116 duplicates 72; Serangoon North to Hougang 1 Mall link preserved)
- Connects Buangkok Cres (no service today) to Buangkok MRT and supplements 101
- Serves Anchorvale Link (no service today) with connection to Sengkang and Buangkok MRT
- Diversion to Serangoon North Ave 1, Blk 120 area (no service today) to reduce duplication with YCK Rd services, while connecting North Ave 1 area residents to Serangoon MRT without winding through Serangoon Gardens
- Extension to Serangoon Ave 1 / Bartley Rd is mainly to call at NEX bus stop for both directions, so that commuters to Serangoon North can wait for both 315 & 116
- Also provides connection to Serangoon MRT for a small secttion of Bartley Rd; more connections for Ave 1 / Bartley Rd residents
- Overall better patronage of 116
Cons:
- Route may be too windy
- Loss of link from Hougang to Serangoon Gardens
- Loss of direct link from Hougang Ctrl Int to Ave 4/9 (but still have 72 outside interchange)
- Expect short-distance travellers
372: Sengkang - Anchorvale Cres (Loop)
- Extended to serve Anchorvale Cres and Compassvale Cres, making use of an existing service instead of introducing yet another short feeder
- Follow 222 style: Sengkang Int - Anchorvale Rd - Punggol Rd - Sengkang MRT - Anchorvale Cres - Compassvale Cres - Sengkang MRT - Punggol Rd - Anchorvale Rd - Sengkang Int
- Better link from Compassvale Dr and Punggol Rd to Sengkang MRT, providing alternatives other than 86/163
Cons:
- Too confusing
- Serving both Anchorvale Cres and Compassvale Cres may increase travelling time
- Link to Compassvale Rd is lost, although not sure if that's useful
Originally posted by SBS9252G:Too long. AMK Ave 3 has link to Hougang NEL & AMK Ave 3 have direct connection to AMK Stn to City, i prob people do not mind just taking 1 stop to Bishan and change line.
Another alt is that 74 has direct connection to Marymount MRT. CCL.
74's Marymount is rather unidirectional...
Originally posted by array88:Service 116 & 372 extensions:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zvASY1AjT64M.ktdvOFGvP2sU&usp=sharing
116: Sengkang - Bartley Rd (Loop)
- Route diverted from Hougang 1 Mall to Sengkang, skipping Hougang Ctrl Int (where the current 116 duplicates 72; Serangoon North to Hougang 1 Mall link preserved)
- Connects Buangkok Cres (no service today) to Buangkok MRT and supplements 101
- Serves Anchorvale Link (no service today) with connection to Sengkang and Buangkok MRT
- Diversion to Serangoon North Ave 1, Blk 120 area (no service today) to reduce duplication with YCK Rd services, while connecting North Ave 1 area residents to Serangoon MRT without winding through Serangoon Gardens
- Extension to Serangoon Ave 1 / Bartley Rd is mainly to call at NEX bus stop for both directions, so that commuters to Serangoon North can wait for both 315 & 116
- Also provides connection to Serangoon MRT for a small secttion of Bartley Rd; more connections for Ave 1 / Bartley Rd residents
- Overall better patronage of 116
Cons:
- Route may be too windy
- Loss of link from Hougang to Serangoon Gardens
- Loss of direct link from Hougang Ctrl Int to Ave 4/9 (but still have 72 outside interchange)
- Expect short-distance travellers
372: Sengkang - Anchorvale Cres (Loop)
- Extended to serve Anchorvale Cres and Compassvale Cres, making use of an existing service instead of introducing yet another short feeder
- Follow 222 style: Sengkang Int - Anchorvale Rd - Punggol Rd - Sengkang MRT - Anchorvale Cres - Compassvale Cres - Sengkang MRT - Punggol Rd - Anchorvale Rd - Sengkang Int
- Better link from Compassvale Dr and Punggol Rd to Sengkang MRT, providing alternatives other than 86/163
Cons:
- Too confusing
- Serving both Anchorvale Cres and Compassvale Cres may increase travelling time
- Link to Compassvale Rd is lost, although not sure if that's useful
Indeed for 372, it's too confusing, actually LRT is still the faster way to Farmway and Compassvale and i think the area for Farmway and Fernvale is to have trunk services to bring the residents to different places.
Originally posted by mujiaesthetic:https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zHtB5K99br3o.kO2wT2RFZPMw&usp=sharing
S104: Serangoon - Bt Panjang (via Ang Mo Kio, Yio Chu Kang, Mandai Rd)
pros:
- amk/yck to bpj without going to city
- direct connection from nyp to amk mrt other than taking mrt
- direct connection from amk ave 3 to s'goon mrt for transfer to ccl/nel
cons:
- too long?
possible route changes:
- shorten to amk?
- ply lentor ave instead of upp thomson/sembawang to allow transfers to 39/85/117/965/969?
I would rather this service be shorten... Now with the intro of the downtown line... I believe it is convenience and not time consuming...
So instead of taking 104, commuters are able to take NEL to Little India and transfer to Downtown Line to Bukit Panjang vice versa...
Originally posted by array88:74's Marymount is rather unidirectional...
Svc 74's Marymount stop is only for towards AMK/Hougang Central... It will nt stop opposite the station towards Buona Vista
Service 184C: Bt Panjang - one-North MRT station (loop)
A variant of the service to enhance links to NP, SP and NUS-Utown. Allows for convenient transfers at Beauty World and one-north MRT stations. (The above mentioned places already have good links to EWL.)
Originally posted by AJQZC:Service 184C: Bt Panjang - one-North MRT station (loop)
A variant of the service to enhance links to NP, SP and NUS-Utown. Allows for convenient transfers at Beauty World and one-north MRT stations. (The above mentioned places already have good links to EWL.)
- Bt Panjang Bus Park
- Woodlands Rd
- Bt Panjang Rd
- Pending Rd
- Petir Rd
- Cashew Rd
- Upp Bt Timah Rd *(express between Rail Mall and Southaven II. Turns right and stops at Beauty World Plaza.)
- Jln Jurong Kechil
- Jln Anak Bukit
- Clementi Rd *(partial express)
- Dover Rd
- Ayer Rajah Ave
- Fusionopolis Way
- Portsdown Rd
- North Buona Vista Rd
- Dover Rd
- (loop back to Bt Panjang)
Hi mr AJQZC, I think not very necessary to create another splinter of smrt 184. Route can be covered by current bus services and also managed by existing transfers to other services as well as circle line. Major duplication with smrt 75 as well except for the ending part. Cheers. Thanks.
Originally posted by dupdup77:Hi mr AJQZC, I think not very necessary to create another splinter of smrt 184. Route can be covered by current bus services and also managed by existing transfers to other services as well as circle line. Major duplication with smrt 75 as well except for the ending part. Cheers. Thanks.
In any case, I'd say it would still be helpful to divert either 75 or 184 to Beauty World Plaza for the link to Beauty World MRT (even if there's already 74/151 at KAP MRT). Also your point about duplication with 75 is invalid, as Cashew - Clementi Rd has always had 75 doubling 184, and this is not the fault in my suggestion. Cheers.