GCM New/Transferred Buses

dupdup77

26 Nov 15, 20:03

Originally posted by SBS351M:

I don't profess support for every MAN product, I'm only stating the fact that the MAN A22, A24 and A95 are so similar and credits to them for making these three products for different market segments so similar that it makes maintenance and operations easy. This is in response to the countless posts where people think them as very different buses, they are not, and thats the beauty of the MAN A22, A24 and A95 family which I like about.

If you want me to point out a MAN product which I don't particularly like, it is the MAN A66s/A80s which you can find in Melbourne. Those are problematic especially during summer when they tend to overheat, and you would know it yourself if you follow the discussions on Transdev Melbourne in another forum. And between the O.405 family and the SL/NL family, I would prefer the O.405 family. So its simply a case where my preferences are based on my knowledge of buses, just like a lot of people.

Part of the reason why the contracting model in Melbourne hasn't gone down too well is because the package was too big, 1/3 of the bus network was tendered out. Yes, it may be less than the size of 2 packages in Singapore, but you have to compare the scale of the operations vs network. Australian bus companies have generally smaller fleets but the fleet is more diverse, and have a bigger geographical coverage, the longest bus routes (Smartbuses) in Melbourne were affected. So if sh!t happens, the percentage of commuters affected vis a vis total number of commuters will be bigger. The risk was that a new entrant would not perform up to standards and sadly complains went up. The whole exercise was just poorly planned with regards to risk management. If they had cut it into smaller packages, with more of a local emphasis, the fleet that needs to be taken over will be more homogenous, and less of such problems will occur.

You could see that LTA's approach is different, they are more cautious than PTV, only 3 out of 12 packages are tendered out/to be tendered out, and the 2 which have been awarded are awarded to different operators. This minimises the risk in a case where a certain operator fails to perform up to expectation. And the rest of the packages remain with existing operators until they are up for tender, which I take it that LTA wants to observe how the tendering system turns out before going full scale.

The issues regarding private school bus operators are different from the issues concerning the public bus operators, school bus operators depend on patronage to earn revenue. Under the tendering system, public bus operators are free from revenue risk, and if they have bid for the packages with their eyes open, they should be earning profits. And I doubt LTA will make a politically unwise move to increase fares just because they are taking on the revenue risk.

In any case if SMRT gets affected in the third tender, I'm sure they can find new services for any displaced buses, any upgrade in capacity will be welcomed by commuters of services which get these upgrades. Non WAB or not will become less of an issue as there are already so many WAB buses around that will allow them to meet the requirements.

I do understand your concerns about the GCM, but I hope you look beyond the gloom and doom, because without this, bus operations in Singapore will never be profitable and has to be subsidized from rail operations.

Hi mr SBS351M, the 2 which they award are of course given to different operators. Not that they are being cautious. Because the first one given to Tower transit and they did not take part in the 2nd tender. Cheers. Thanks.

al92

26 Nov 15, 20:49

Originally posted by SBS7557R:

Is it possible to do the list of BSEP buses that are potentially transferred over for the Bulim Bus Package here?

This proposed change in thread is due to the fact that the list often falls back to pages behind due to the high activity of the Redeployments thread and the current Redeployments thread is reaching 2,000 posts.

The previous list is now deleted and brought over here with new updates of redeployments between BN/SL and AM/KJ.

If fellow forum members and moderators are dissatisfied with this new arrangement, this list will be deleted from this thread and brought over to the upcoming Part 22 of the Redeployments thread. Cheers.

Bulim Bus Package

1. Depot Transfers

SBST AMDEP/BRBP  SBST SLBP (36 buses)

Sv22: 3410

Sv25: 3337

Sv28: 3392

Sv45: 3413

Sv50: 3313 3315 3317 3320 3411 3414 6331

Sv55: 3300

Sv58: 3301 3340 3383

Sv59: 3363

Sv70/M: 3342

Sv72: 3353 3412

Sv76: 3338

Sv86: 3425

Sv88: 3373 3374

Sv90: 3339

Sv120: 6377 6379

Sv122: 6376

Sv131/M: 6364

Sv262: 6329

Sv265: 6313 6333 6360

Sv410G: 6301

Sv410W: 3384 3403

SP: 3343

SBST SLBP  SBST AMDEP/BRBP (35 buses)

Sv30: 8931

Sv66: 5223 6029

Sv97: 5122 5123 5125 5136 5150 5220 8963

Sv98/M: 3027 3028 3030 3097 3207 3212 3215 3219 3835 7310 7318 7394 7456

Sv181: 3832

Sv183: 3005 3011 3076 3269 3277

Sv257: 3885

Sv334: 3283 3286 3295 3296 3844

SBST BNDEP/CGBP  SBST SLBP (28 buses)

Sv4: 3375 6370 6371

Sv6: 3331

Sv8: 3316 3415

Sv12: 3391

Sv19: 3382

Sv20: 3355 6373

Sv23: 3334

Sv31: 3335

Sv35/M: 3347 3348 3349 3352 3409

Sv45: 3346 3351

Sv69: 3400

Sv109: 3399

Sv168: 3394

Sv196: 3344

Sv291: 3401

Sv293: 3407 3423

Sv513: 3323 3324

SBST SLBP  SBST BNDEP/CGBP (33 buses)

Sv66: 8260 8487

Sv97: 3013 3033 3206 3609 3610 7502 7533 7557 7592 9465

Sv143: 7356 7361 7401 7460 7462 7471 7474 7489 7493 7530 7532 7623 7705

Sv174e: 6666

Sv334: 3147 3175 3180

SP: 3925 3964 5191 6697

SBST HGDEP  SBST SLBP (31 buses)

Sv43: 3305 3376 6302

Sv43M: 3431

Sv50: 3326 3327 3328

Sv53M: 6327

Sv89: 3357

Sv102: 6343 6350 6365 6366

Sv103: 6304 6344 6349

Sv116: 6322 6325 6326

Sv119: 3307 3310

Sv141: 6397

Sv161: 3358 3377

Sv163/M: 3426

Sv317: 6338

Sv372: 6303

SP: 3393 3418 6328 6332

SBST SLBP  SBST HGDEP (30 buses)

Sv78: 3765 3795 3826

Sv97e: 5126 5138 8698 8936 8992

Sv98/M: 7458 7470 7480 7482 9628

Sv183: 3836 3840 5225 7702 7703 7704

Sv333: 6070 8981 8999

Sv335: 5192 6066 8680 8681 8997

SP: 6644 8932 8995

SBST HGDEP  SBST ARBP/BBDEP (3 buses)

Sv141: 6395

Sv325: 6308

SP: 6339

SBST ARBP/BBDEP  SBST HGDEP (3 buses)

Sv16: 6104

Sv96: 6042 6046

SMRT AMDEP  SMRT KJDEP (25 buses)

Sv800: 3023 3029 3073

Sv803: 3059

Sv804: 3062

Sv806: 3013

Sv811: 3024 3032 3033

Sv812: 3020 3022

Sv855: 3027 3072

Sv860: 3014 3015 3016 3017 3018 3019 3044 3056 3060 3064 3076

Sv980: 3074

SMRT KJDEP  SMRT AMDEP (19 buses)

Sv67: 204 205 206 207

Sv77: 159

Sv176: 1408

Sv700/A: 1483 1484

Sv925: 1415

Sv927: 1411 1412 1413 1414

Sv975: 140 149 181 182 183

SP: 1429 1430

SMRT WLDEP  SMRT KJDEP (31 buses)

Sv75: 3031

Sv178: 3040 3055

Sv850E: 3028 3054 3511 3512

Sv858: 3001 3037 3061

Sv859A: 3005 3006

Sv859B: 3041 3042

Sv882: 3008

Sv900/A: 3034 3043

Sv901: 3048 3049

Sv902: 3007

Sv913: 3039 3078

Sv920: 3002 3047

Sv922: 3003 3004

Sv951E: 3052 3053 3075

Sv966: 3513

Sv969: 3510

SMRT KJDEP  SMRT WLDEP (31 buses)

Sv106: 210 211 214 215

Sv173: 1470

Sv176: 1236

Sv177: 1473

Sv188: 202 203 209 218 219 220 224 1203

Sv189: 1162 1224 1606

Sv307: 1538 1566 1586

Sv700/A: 195 196 197 199 200 208 1468

Sv970: 1546

Sv975: 1396 1397

2. Redeployment Flow (Internal/External)

SBS Transit

Service 4
IN: SBS6666R SBS7532L + 1 SD
OUT: SBS3375A SBS6370T SBS6371R

Service 6
IN: SBS7530S
OUT: SBS3331B

Service 8
IN: SBS7401G + 1 DD
OUT: SBS3316X SBS3415T

Service 12
IN:
OUT: SBS3391C

Service 16
IN:
OUT: SBS6104X

Service 19
IN:
OUT: SBS3382D

Service 20
IN: SBS3206E SBS3452K + 1 SD
OUT: SBS3355H SBS6312L SBS6373K

Service 21
IN: SBS3186D
OUT: SBS3318R

Service 22
IN: SBS9817C + 1 DD
OUT: SBS3330D SBS3410G

Service 23
IN:
OUT: SBS3334T

Service 25
IN: SBS3212L
OUT: SBS3337K

Service 28
IN: SBS3296U
OUT: SBS3392A

Service 30
IN:
OUT: SBS8931L

Service 31
IN:
OUT: SBS3335R

Service 35/35M
IN: SBS3147S SBS3175K SBS3180U + 2 DDs
OUT: SBS3347G SBS3348D SBS3349B SBS3352R SBS3409L

Service 43
IN: SBS3765H SBS3795X SBS8932J
OUT: SBS3305C SBS3376Y SBS6302R

Service 43M
IN: SBS7703K
OUT: SBS3431X

Service 45
IN: SBS3277A + 2 DDs
OUT: SBS3346J SBS3351T SBS3413Z

Service 48
IN: SBS6596J (thereafter SBS6552K)
OUT: SBS6321K

Service 50
IN: SBS3027E SBS3028C SBS3030U SBS3097C SBS3461J SBS3832Y SBS3885U SBS7470G SBS7482Y
OUT: SBS3313D SBS3315Z SBS3317T SBS3320H SBS3326S SBS3327P SBS3328L SBS3411D SBS3414X

Service 52
IN: SBS3095H SBS3096E SBS3128Y
OUT: SBS3366B SBS3367Z SBS3369T

Service 53M
IN: SBS8995C
OUT: SBS6327U

Service 55
IN:
OUT: SBS3300R

Service 58
IN: SBS3207C SBS3219T SBS7318P
OUT: SBS3301M SBS3340A SBS3383B

Service 59
IN: SBS3215D
OUT: SBS3363J

Service 60
IN:
OUT: SBS3350X

Service 66
IN: SBS6306E SBS6312L SBS6317Z SBS6377A SBS6379U
OUT: SBS5223S SBS6029E SBS8347Z SBS8351K SBS8416H

Service 69
IN: SBS7361M
OUT: SBS3400K

Service 70/70M
IN: SBS3835P SBS7473Z
OUT: SBS3302K SBS3342U

Service 72
IN: SBS3283G SBS3286Z
OUT: SBS3353M SBS3412B

Service 76
IN: SBS3076M
OUT: SBS3338H

Service 78
IN: SBS3305C SBS3325U SBS3376Y SBS3377U SBS3390E SBS3395S SBS3396P SBS3398J SBS3406U SBS3419H SBS3420C SBS6367D
OUT: SBS3059M SBS3061E SBS3062C SBS3063A SBS3064Y SBS3221K SBS3765H SBS3795X SBS3826R SBS8986D SBS9607S SBS9611D

Service 79
IN: SBS3366B SBS3367Z SBS3369T SBS3379P SBS3389K SBS6354R SBS6355M + 3 DDs
OUT: SBS3094K SBS3095H SBS3096E SBS3128Y SBS7726U SBS7727S SBS7729L SBS8190H SBS8955T SBS9662G

Service 86
IN: SBS3269Z
OUT: SBS3425P

Service 87
IN:
OUT: SBS6306E

Service 88
IN: SBS3295Y SBS7394T
OUT: SBS3373E SBS3374C

Service 89
IN: SBS7704H
OUT: SBS3357C

Service 90
IN: SBS7456Z
OUT: SBS3339E

Service 96
IN: SBS3365D SBS3378S SBS6308A SBS6352X SBS6389R SBS6395Y + 1 SD
OUT: SBS3034J SBS3035G SBS6042R SBS6046E + 3 SDs

Service 97
IN: SBS3346J SBS3351T SBS3355H SBS6301T SBS6313J SBS6329P SBS6331G SBS6333B SBS6360Y SBS6364L SBS6376C + 5 DDs
OUT: SBS3013U SBS3033L SBS3206E SBS3610X SBS5122A SBS5123Y SBS5125S SBS5136K SBS5150T SBS5220A SBS7502Z SBS7533J SBS7557R SBS7592M SBS8078A SBS8963U SBS9465J

Service 97e
IN: SBS6328S SBS6349G SBS6350B SBS6365J SBS6366G
OUT: SBS5126P SBS5138E SBS8698K SBS8936Z SBS8992K

Service 98/98M
IN: SBS3301M SBS3315Z SBS3317T SBS3320H SBS3326S SBS3327P SBS3328L SBS3337K SBS3339E SBS3340A SBS3342U SBS3363J SBS3374C SBS3383B SBS3405Y SBS3414X + 1 DD
OUT: SBS3027E SBS3028C SBS3030U SBS3097C SBS3207C SBS3212L SBS3215D SBS3219T SBS3835P SBS7310K SBS7318P SBS7394T SBS7456Z SBS7458T SBS7470G SBS7480C SBS7482Y SBS9628G

Service 99
IN: SBS3140K
OUT: SBS3333X

Service 102
IN: SBS5126P SBS5225L SBS8936Z SBS8992K
OUT: SBS6343Y SBS6350B SBS6365J SBS6366G

Service 103
IN: SBS8680K SBS8681H SBS8698K
OUT: SBS6304K SBS6344U SBS6349G

Service 109
IN: SBS7623H
OUT: SBS3399G

Service 116
IN: SBS6070J SBS8981S SBS8999S
OUT: SBS6322H SBS6325A SBS6326Y

Service 119
IN: SBS3836L SBS3840Z
OUT: SBS3307Y SBS3310L

Service 120
IN: SBS5223S SBS6029E
OUT: SBS6377A SBS6379U

Service 122
IN: SBS5125S
OUT: SBS6376C

Service 123
IN:
OUT: SBS6352X

Service 131/131M
IN: SBS5122A
OUT: SBS6364L

Service 140
IN: SBS6528G
OUT: SBS6512B

Service 141
IN: SBS6042R SBS6644D
OUT: SBS6395Y SBS6397S

Service 143
IN: SBS3302K SBS3318R SBS3330D SBS3331B SBS3350X SBS3375A SBS3399G SBS3400K SBS3401H SBS3402E SBS3423U + 4 DDs
OUT: SBS3186D SBS7356D SBS7361M SBS7401G SBS7460K SBS7462E SBS7471D SBS7473Z SBS7474X SBS7489D SBS7493R SBS7532L SBS7623H SBS7705E SBS9817C

Service 147
IN: SBS3153Z
OUT: SBS3314B

Service 154
IN: SBS8190H
OUT: SBS6354R

Service 161
IN: SBS3826R + 1 DD
OUT: SBS3358A SBS3377U

Service 163/163M
IN: SBS7702M
OUT: SBS3426L

Service 168
IN:
OUT: SBS3394U

Service 174e
IN:
OUT: SBS6666R

Service 181
IN: SBS3T
OUT: SBS3832Y

Service 182/182M
IN: SBS3061E SBS3430Z
OUT: SBS3332Z SBS3398J

Service 183
IN: SBS3300R SBS3307Y SBS3310L SBS3338H SBS3357C SBS3403C SBS3410G SBS3413Z SBS3425P SBS3426L SBS6343Y
OUT: SBS3005T SBS3011A SBS3076M SBS3269Z SBS3277A SBS3836L SBS3840Z SBS5225L SBS7702M SBS7703K SBS7704H

Service 191
IN:
OUT: SBS6404E

Service 192
IN: SBS4R
OUT: SBS3311J SBS3359Y

Service 193
IN: SBS7727S
OUT: SBS3385X

Service 195
IN: SBS8044Y
OUT: SBS6430D

Service 196
IN: SBS3034J SBS3035G + 1 DD
OUT: SBS3344P SBS3365D SBS3378S

Service 228
IN: SBS8347Z
OUT: SBS6317Z

Service 241
IN: SBS3064Y
OUT: SBS3419H

Service 242
IN: SBS8955T SBS8986D
OUT: SBS6355M SBS6367D

Service 243G
IN: SBS3466X
OUT: SBS3389K

Service 243W
IN: SBS3059M
OUT: SBS3390E

Service 246
IN: SBS3455C
OUT: SBS3325U

Service 251
IN: SBS3465Z SBS9611D
OUT: SBS3395S SBS3406U

Service 257
IN: SBS9607S
OUT: SBS3420C

Service 262
IN: SBS5136K
OUT: SBS6329P

Service 265
IN: SBS5123Y SBS5220A SBS8963U
OUT: SBS6313J SBS6333B SBS6360Y

Service 282
IN: SBS6390K SBS6404E SBS6488M SBS6507S
OUT: SBS8046S SBS8053X SBS8061Y + 1 SD

Service 284
IN: SBS6321K SBS6351Z
OUT: SBS8043A SBS8058H

Service 285
IN: SBS3314B SBS3333X SBS6363P SBS6430D
OUT: SBS3140K SBS3153Z SBS8044Y SBS8084G

Service 291
IN:
OUT: SBS3401H SBS3402E

Service 293
IN: SBS7705E + 1 DD
OUT: SBS3407S SBS3423U

Service 317
IN: SBS8997Y
OUT: SBS6338M

Service 325
IN: SBS6046E
OUT: SBS6308A

Service 333
IN: SBS6322H SBS6325A SBS6326Y SBS6371R
OUT: SBS6070J SBS8981S SBS8999S + 1 SD

Service 334
IN: SBS3343S SBS3347G SBS3348D SBS3349B SBS3353M SBS3384Z SBS3392A SBS3412B
OUT: SBS3147S SBS3175K SBS3180U SBS3283G SBS3286Z SBS3295Y SBS3296U SBS3844M

Service 335
IN: SBS6303M SBS6304K SBS6332D SBS6338M SBS6344U
OUT: SBS5192Y SBS6066Y SBS8680K SBS8681H SBS8997Y

Service 372
IN: SBS6512B
OUT: SBS6303M

Service 410G
IN: SBS8931L
OUT: SBS6301T

Service 410W
IN: SBS3384Z SBS3403C
OUT: SBS3005T SBS3844M

Service 513
IN:
OUT: SBS3323A SBS3324Y

SMRT Buses

Service 67
IN:
OUT: SMB204P SMB205L SMB206J SMB207G

Service 75
IN: SMB1481Z
OUT: SMB3031B

Service 77
IN: SMB3010L SMB3011J SMB3012G SMB3030D SMB3035R SMB3036M + 1 SD
OUT: SMB140P SMB149R SMB159L SMB180Z SMB182T SMB185K SMB187E

Service 106
IN: SMB3031B SMB3034T SMB3037K SMB3039E SMB3504D SMB3505B SMB3506Z SMB3510K SMB3511H SMB3512E SMB3513C
OUT: SMB210X SMB211T SMB214K SMB215H SMB1429B SMB1430X

Service 173
IN: SMB3045L SMB3046J SMB3047G SMB3048D SMB3049B SMB3051T SMB3052R SMB3053M SMB3054K SMB3055H SMB3061P SMB3063J
OUT: SMB98D SMB99B SMB116K SMB119C SMB124L SMB126G SMB127D SMB128B SMB134H SMB1329G SMB1470E SMB1524J

Service 176
IN: SMB116K SMB1420A
OUT: TIB1236M SMB1408L

Service 177
IN: SMB3040A SMB3041Y SMB3042U SMB3043S
OUT: SMB1473Y SMB1641D SMB1642B SMB1643Z

Service 178
IN: SMB196D SMB197B
OUT: SMB3040A SMB3055H

Service 188
IN: SMB1588A SMB1641D SMB1642B SMB1643Z + random HC buses
OUT: TIB1203H SMB202U SMB203S SMB209B SMB218A SMB219Y SMB220S SMB224G

Service 189
IN: SMB3001M SMB3002K SMB3003H SMB3004E SMB3005C SMB3006A SMB3007Y SMB3008U SMB3517S SMB3518P SMB3522B SMB3523Z SMB3565C
OUT: TIB1097Y TIB1162S TIB1177A TIB1224Y SMB11D SMB12B SMB13Z SMB14X SMB15T SMB16R SMB388S SMB1588A SMB1606G

Service 307
IN: SMB98D SMB99B SMB119C SMB124L SMB125J SMB126G SMB127D SMB3131X
OUT: SMB1538U SMB1566M SMB1570A SMB1573S SMB1574P SMB1575L SMB1586E SMB3077U

Service 700/700A
IN: SMB12B SMB13Z SMB14X SMB15T SMB16R SMB17M SMB18K SMB195G (WL) SMB200A (WL) + 3 SDs + 1 HC bus
OUT: SMB195G (KJ) SMB196D SMB197B SMB198Z SMB199X SMB200A (KJ) SMB208D SMB1468M SMB1481Z SMB1483T SMB1484R SMB1486K SMB3523Z

Service 800
IN: SMB1408L + 2 SDs
OUT: SMB3023A SMB3029J SMB3073E

Service 803
IN: SMB1484R
OUT: SMB3059Y

Service 804
IN: SMB1415R
OUT: SMB3062L

Service 806
IN:
OUT: SMB3013D

Service 811
IN:
OUT: SMB3024Y SMB3032Z SMB3033X

Service 812
IN:
OUT: SMB3020H SMB3022C

Service 850E
IN: SMB1538U SMB1546X SMB3548C SMB5892U
OUT: SMB3028L SMB3054K SMB3511H SMB3512E

Service 855
IN:
OUT: SMB3027P SMB3072H

Service 858
IN: SMB199X SMB202U SMB1486K
OUT: SMB3001M SMB3037K SMB3061P

Service 859A
IN: SMB203S SMB208D
OUT: SMB3005C SMB3006A

Service 859B
IN: SMB209B SMB210X
OUT: SMB3041Y SMB3042U

Service 860
IN: SMB1414T SMB8016M + 8 SDs
OUT: SMB3014B SMB3015Z SMB3016X SMB3017T SMB3018R SMB3019M SMB3044P SMB3056E SMB3060S SMB3064G

Service 882
IN: SMB3096P
OUT: SMB3008U

Service 900/900A
IN: SMB214K SMB215H
OUT: SMB3034T SMB3043S

Service 901
IN: SMB218A SMB219Y
OUT: SMB3048D SMB3049B

Service 902
IN:
OUT: SMB3007Y

Service 913
IN: SMB220S SMB224G
OUT: SMB3039E SMB3078S

Service 920
IN: SMB1468M SMB1470E
OUT: SMB3002K SMB3047G

Service 922
IN: SMB1396L SMB1397J
OUT: SMB3003H SMB3004E

Service 925
IN:
OUT: SMB1415R SMB3025U SMB3026S SMB3051T

Service 927
IN:
OUT: SMB1411B SMB1412Z SMB1413X SMB1414T

Service 941
IN: SMB3038H SMB3075A SMB3077U SMB3078S
OUT: SMB17M SMB18K SMB66X SMB71E

Service 947
IN: SMB3028L SMB3057C SMB3058A + 1 SD
OUT: SMB2E SMB67T SMB69M SMB70H

Service 951E
IN: SMB1566M SMB1586E SMB1606G
OUT: SMB3052R SMB3053M SMB3075A

Service 966
IN: SMB3596M + 1 DD
OUT: SMB3513C SMB3514A

Service 969
IN: SMB3514A
OUT: SMB3510K

Service 970
IN:
OUT: SMB1546X

Service 972
IN: Random HC buses
OUT: SMB3517S SMB3518P

Service 975
IN: SMB3134M SMB3135K + Random SD buses
OUT: SMB140P SMB149R SMB181X SMB182T SMB183R SMB1396L SMB1397J SMB3045L SMB3046J

Service 980
IN:
OUT: SMB3074C

Service 982E
IN: SMB3136H SMB3137E
OUT: SMB3035R SMB3036M

Update 1230 hrs, 23 Nov: 3147 3206 3925 5191 6666 7356 7361 7401 7471 7474 7489 7493 7502 7532 7592 7705 7623 8260 8487 9465 to BN; 3399 3407 6371 to SL

Update 0000 hrs, 24 Nov: 3013 3033 3175 3180 3610 3964 6697 7460 7462 to BN; 3316 3323 3324 3331 3334 3335 3344 3382 3394 3401 3415 3423 to SL; 140 149 181 182 183 1430 1483 to AM

Update 1400 hrs, 24 Nov: 3609 7530 7533 to BN; 3355 6370 6373 to SL; 159 to AM

Update 2000 hrs, 24 Nov: 7557 to BN

sgbuses

26 Nov 15, 21:20

Originally posted by SBS351M:

I don't profess support for every MAN product, I'm only stating the fact that the MAN A22, A24 and A95 are so similar and credits to them for making these three products for different market segments so similar that it makes maintenance and operations easy. This is in response to the countless posts where people think them as very different buses, they are not, and thats the beauty of the MAN A22, A24 and A95 family which I like about.

If you want me to point out a MAN product which I don't particularly like, it is the MAN A66s/A80s which you can find in Melbourne. Those are problematic especially during summer when they tend to overheat, and you would know it yourself if you follow the discussions on Transdev Melbourne in another forum. And between the O.405 family and the SL/NL family, I would prefer the O.405 family. So its simply a case where my preferences are based on my knowledge of buses, just like a lot of people.

Part of the reason why the contracting model in Melbourne hasn't gone down too well is because the package was too big, 1/3 of the bus network was tendered out. Yes, it may be less than the size of 2 packages in Singapore, but you have to compare the scale of the operations vs network. Australian bus companies have generally smaller fleets but the fleet is more diverse, and have a bigger geographical coverage, the longest bus routes (Smartbuses) in Melbourne were affected. So if sh!t happens, the percentage of commuters affected vis a vis total number of commuters will be bigger. The risk was that a new entrant would not perform up to standards and sadly complains went up. The whole exercise was just poorly planned with regards to risk management. If they had cut it into smaller packages, with more of a local emphasis, the fleet that needs to be taken over will be more homogenous, and less of such problems will occur.

You could see that LTA's approach is different, they are more cautious than PTV, only 3 out of 12 packages are tendered out/to be tendered out, and the 2 which have been awarded are awarded to different operators. This minimises the risk in a case where a certain operator fails to perform up to expectation. And the rest of the packages remain with existing operators until they are up for tender, which I take it that LTA wants to observe how the tendering system turns out before going full scale.

The issues regarding private school bus operators are different from the issues concerning the public bus operators, school bus operators depend on patronage to earn revenue. Under the tendering system, public bus operators are free from revenue risk, and if they have bid for the packages with their eyes open, they should be earning profits. And I doubt LTA will make a politically unwise move to increase fares just because they are taking on the revenue risk.

In any case if SMRT gets affected in the third tender, I'm sure they can find new services for any displaced buses, any upgrade in capacity will be welcomed by commuters of services which get these upgrades. Non WAB or not will become less of an issue as there are already so many WAB buses around that will allow them to meet the requirements.

I do understand your concerns about the GCM, but I hope you look beyond the gloom and doom, because without this, bus operations in Singapore will never be profitable and has to be subsidized from rail operations.

This argument focuses on the chassis, but there is also the bodywork that you should factor in as well. There is also an underlying assumption that the bodywork manufacturer remains open for another 17 years to provide the required spare parts.

I am not sure if LTA is buying this particular argument. The probability is 1:1, we will have a better idea once the concept buses are revealed.

If they are indeed buying this particular argument, then STK is in a good position in Singapore to achieve what Volvo and Scania has bagged back in Perth and Adelaide respectively (though through repeated tender awards rather than a lock-in contract to meet WTO rules).

Good. You are fleshing out details of how contracting model is functioning or not functioning in cities. Incentive will play an important part. Lack of a patronage incentive can cause operators to go awry (such as skipping stops to make up time, you will know MTM was infamous for that. I have detailed this issue previously in the main GCM thread). Time will tell if LTA has got its metrics correct.

The biggest issue is drivers, and as already pointed out it takes up the largest expense component of operators. A shortage exists because the salaries of Singaporeans are too low. There are two perspectives to look from in dealing with this. LTA is one, operators the other. By creating the GCM, LTA has essentially bumped the issue to operators who in turn have to turn to market forces, and they are competing for a scarce labour force currently shared by public and private operators. Four outcomes are possible:

1. The operator continues to face driver shortage, affecting bus operations. Service does not improve.
2. Operator bears loss and runs risk of going bust (fictional Merlion Transit scenario).
3. LTA takes on loss, funded through tax.
4. LTA passes on cost difference (fare increase).

As to why non-WAB articulated buses may become "homeless" if SMRT Buses loses the third tender:

- There are around 250 non-WAB articulated buses still in service
- LTA is unlikely to accept any of them under GCM
- GCM packages have a tendency to cover several feeder routes.
- SMRT Buses has to surrender double-deck buses to feeder routes that are lost to another operator under GCM (e.g. Service 189)
- SMRT Buses is trying to substitute articulated buses on trunk routes with double-deck buses, and
- Several of SMRT Buses' feeder routes are wheelchair accessible routes, which limits its ability to deploy non-WAB articulated buses to a 1:1 ratio.

Unless, SMRT reverses its decision to covert trunk routes to double deck buses. Not a popular decision IMO.

iveco

26 Nov 15, 22:41

Habit bendies have until 2019 before they retire. Unlikely there'll be any lifespan extension. Also, full-on tendering won't kick in till after 2022.

Before Volvo came into the picture in Perth, Mercedes held sway. Unfortunately they stuffed up somewhat with the gas-fuelled OC500s, as the number of such buses catching fire can testify. Still, they're smoother than the B7RLEs, which I rode for the first time on the new Route 380 to the international airport and back.

SBS351M

26 Nov 15, 22:59

Originally posted by dupdup77:

Hi mr SBS351M, the 2 which they award are of course given to different operators. Not that they are being cautious. Because the first one given to Tower transit and they did not take part in the 2nd tender. Cheers. Thanks.

They are being cautious, they ought to be, and they know that they have to be cautious, which is why they are not calling for tender the other packages. The time difference between the first few tenders is such that any right minded new operator wouldn't participate in another tender if they had succeeded one of the tenders, doing so will stretch their resources. Though if SBS or SMRT had won one, SBS or SMRT would less issues when they win another one of the three as they already have the resources in place, plus the fact that to the public things will still largely be the same.

If LTA aren't as cautious as they are right now when approaching and transitioning to a tendering system for the buses, they would potentially face the problems Melbourne is facing now.

SBS351M

26 Nov 15, 23:04

Originally posted by sgbuses:

This argument focuses on the chassis, but there is also the bodywork that you should factor in as well. There is also an underlying assumption that the bodywork manufacturer remains open for another 17 years to provide the required spare parts.

I am not sure if LTA is buying this particular argument. The probability is 1:1, we will have a better idea once the concept buses are revealed.

If they are indeed buying this particular argument, then STK is in a good position in Singapore to achieve what Volvo and Scania has bagged back in Perth and Adelaide respectively (though through repeated tender awards rather than a lock-in contract to meet WTO rules).

Judging by the fact that there are SG plated buses around and the high possibility that LTA wants to be cautious with this new system, I think they will not approach the SA and WA way of giving away an exclusive bus manufacturing contract soon, at least not before the whole concept bus (or whatever became of it) thing go through. So in the meanwhile, I am expecting them to buy whatever buses that are similar to the existing models on the road. This, however, does not contradict my previous posts due to reasons I have already mentioned.

SBS351M

26 Nov 15, 23:07

Originally posted by iveco:

Habit bendies have until 2019 before they retire. Unlikely there'll be any lifespan extension. Also, full-on tendering won't kick in till after 2022.

Yes, this is the reason why I don't feel that there is any worry about the O.405G fleet not being able to be redeployed in a case where SMRT gets affected in the next tender.

Ditto to SBS's VOs, VSOs and Tridents, they will be gone by that time.

SG5001C

27 Nov 15, 06:47

So we have some information on the SG-plated Wrights from fb photo, any confirmation about SG-plated Citaros? I notice ABCD marketing makes extensive mention of DDs, wonder if we will get to see SDs there.

SBS3975T

27 Nov 15, 08:43

Originally posted by SG5001C:

So we have some information on the SG-plated Wrights from fb photo, any confirmation about SG-plated Citaros? I notice ABCD marketing makes extensive mention of DDs, wonder if we will get to see SDs there.

sg plate citaro is have, just that in full sbs livery minus logo, front and rear is not white, budep also got.

my qn abt gcm transfer bus is: i understand if u are swapping out non-bsep buses away from bulim and bring in BSEP buses in, so that the fleet is fully BSEP buses by the time of handover. but then, why are they swapping BSEP bus for BSEP bus? unless those is just generic swap older for newer

TPS Timothy Mok

27 Nov 15, 14:41

I understand the next one will be Hispano Citaro/Volgren retirement of buses in 2016. Next one will be Hispano Habits.

CB2883J

28 Nov 15, 15:50

A picture has emerged on Facebook of a BSEP SBS Citaro in full livery and logos, SBS2000M. This bus is not registered yet. I am surprised as I thought they would use the SG plate. Anyone can confirm whether the SG Citaros are still in Bulim?

Gus.chong

29 Nov 15, 08:02

Registered on 27th November 2015:

SG5000E
SG5001C
SG5002A
SG5003Y
SG5004U
SG5005S
SG5006P
SG5007L
SG5008J
SG5009G
SG5010B

CB2883J

29 Nov 15, 11:48

Originally posted by Gus.chong:

Registered on 27th November 2015:

SG5000E - SG5010B

Thanks. Yes as mentioned B9TL registered. No Citaros registered yet - we are expecting those to be SG1000+.

SG5001C

29 Nov 15, 19:06

So I am now registered.

But in all seriousness... so will all BSEP buses from now on be regged as SG? I hear got SBS2000 and SBS35XX

Gus.chong

29 Nov 15, 19:22

Originally posted by SG5001C:

So I am now registered.

But in all seriousness... so will all BSEP buses from now on be regged as SG? I hear got SBS2000 and SBS35XX

Nope, BSEP scheme is still ongoing and the regos for BSEP buses under SBST are up...

SBS 9631X

29 Nov 15, 21:52

Originally posted by Gus.chong:

Nope, BSEP scheme is still ongoing and the regos for BSEP buses under SBST are up...

Like i told you in the other thread, true that SBST is still registrating Wrights under BSEP scheme in their own SBS regoes, but also need to consider that the true ownership of those BSEP buses (regardless of the SGxxxx regoes, or SBST/SMRT regoes) are actually under LTA.

So in a way, those new BSEP Wrights are kind of 'temporarily parked' under SBST's care for the time being. Maybe until SBST has no more new BSEP Wrights to give out / no more need to give out BSEP buses to the other operators..

TIB868X

29 Nov 15, 22:25

To keep things simple, all buses under BSEP are of course owned by LTA. The difference would depend on who would be using them. The buses allocated to the new contractors namely Tower Transit (and I presume Go-Ahead) will be with SG plates while those allocated to SMRT/SBST under non-contracted services would remain with their respective operators' plates, SMB and SBS.

TIB868X

30 Nov 15, 07:45

SMB3077U on 904, transfer from BU to WL?

CB2883J

30 Nov 15, 08:37

Originally posted by SBS 9631X:

... own SBS regoes, but also need to consider that the true ownership of those BSEP buses (regardless of the SGxxxx regoes, or SBST/SMRT regoes) are actually under LTA. So in a way, those new BSEP Wrights are kind of 'temporarily parked' under SBST's ...

Simply put, SBS35xx is confirmed to be BSEP buses, LTA-owned, used by SBS, because, prior to registration, they will have a paper in the dashboard that says "BSEP" in big letters. Thus, the 35xx cannot be non-BSEP. If that doesn't convince you that they are BSEP buses, I wonder what will.

But seriously speaking, I do wonder why SBS and LTA continued with the SBS35xx registration above 3500 and for SBS2000M for the Citaros. If anything, the exhaustion of 65xx for Citaros would be a good excuse for LTA to insist on "all new BSEP buses register straight to SG plate".

SG5001C

30 Nov 15, 09:21

Originally posted by CB2883J:

Simply put, SBS35xx is confirmed to be BSEP buses, LTA-owned, used by SBS, because, prior to registration, they will have a paper in the dashboard that says "BSEP" in big letters. Thus, the 35xx cannot be non-BSEP. If that doesn't convince you that they are BSEP buses, I wonder what will.

But seriously speaking, I do wonder why SBS and LTA continued with the SBS35xx registration above 3500 and for SBS2000M for the Citaros. If anything, the exhaustion of 65xx for Citaros would be a good excuse for LTA to insist on "all new BSEP buses register straight to SG plate".

I'm not sure. Maybe LTA still let SBS register the 35xx because of the what "9 packages continue to run under incumbent"? But anyway, still, the buses are still under BSEP and govt owned, so it seems like LTA lack of commitment to the SG rego series.

SBS3975T

30 Nov 15, 14:19

Originally posted by SG5001C:

I'm not sure. Maybe LTA still let SBS register the 35xx because of the what "9 packages continue to run under incumbent"? But anyway, still, the buses are still under BSEP and govt owned, so it seems like LTA lack of commitment to the SG rego series.

indeed. i wonder why they nvr take the chance to just insist that all BSEP bus reg as SG.

Anyway, my qn is, if lta want paint the front n rear of the b9tls white, then what for the sides still sticker with sbs livery? should leave unstickered. dont tell me the TT buses are gonna go on svc with white front white rear sbs sides and tt logo. look damn chapalang.

lemon1974

30 Nov 15, 16:01

Originally posted by SBS3975T:

indeed. i wonder why they nvr take the chance to just insist that all BSEP bus reg as SG.

Anyway, my qn is, if lta want paint the front n rear of the b9tls white, then what for the sides still sticker with sbs livery? should leave unstickered. dont tell me the TT buses are gonna go on svc with white front white rear sbs sides and tt logo. look damn chapalang.

the side have already been stickered with full body wraps...at least for the 10 or so B9TL registered under SG plate.... guess these SG plates buses will be used for the Bulim Carnival shuttles...

CB2883J

30 Nov 15, 16:17

Originally posted by lemon1974:

the side have already been stickered with full body wraps...at least for the 10 or so B9TL registered under SG plate.... guess these SG plates buses will be used for the Bulim Carnival shuttles...

All 10 buses have wraps? I really wonder what they look like...

By the way @lemon1974, as per your message in the B9TL thread, this was the thread conceptualised as a place to list the LTA "SG" buses.

CB2883J

30 Nov 15, 22:17

Originally posted by lemon1974:

those interior parts have all been order already... so order new one just for the sake of some common /neutral interior spec? and still need to retrofit all the current BSEP buses as well? how much money is needed for all these?

frankly speaking, those passengers who take the buses daily DUN CARE about the interior colours etc.... my wife/my kids all dun bother about the colours of the seats, colour of the poles etc.... they are more concern on buses arriving on time, and space for them to board....

Actually, I've been thinking and I kind of agree with SBS3975T on this point. What I think, however, is that any objection would come from the part of the incumbent PTOs themselves. The seat covers, grabpoles and other interior fittings are part of their corporate image - just imagine the red seats-purple grabpoles combination of SBS, or that yellow poster that SMRT uses for their "Please pay the correct fare", very recognisable... for an example, just take a look at the Mobility Park mockup, from the inside, what makes it recognisably SMRT? This even extends to fittings like the SMRT PIS. Corporate image would also be the one that incorporates elements such as the BCs' uniforms, et cetera. The companies may have spent time and money to craft their corporate image, and I wouldn't be surprised if they may even have hired consultants to help them with the design. That is why I would suspect they may possibly be the one to raise an objection if their corporate image, which they have taken pains to build up, is wantonly used on other operators' buses.

SG5001C

1 Dec 15, 12:59

Originally posted by CB2883J:

Actually, I've been thinking and I kind of agree with SBS3975T on this point. What I think, however, is that any objection would come from the part of the incumbent PTOs themselves. The seat covers, grabpoles and other interior fittings are part of their corporate image - just imagine the red seats-purple grabpoles combination of SBS, or that yellow poster that SMRT uses for their "Please pay the correct fare", very recognisable... for an example, just take a look at the Mobility Park mockup, from the inside, what makes it recognisably SMRT? This even extends to fittings like the SMRT PIS. Corporate image would also be the one that incorporates elements such as the BCs' uniforms, et cetera. The companies may have spent time and money to craft their corporate image, and I wouldn't be surprised if they may even have hired consultants to help them with the design. That is why I would suspect they may possibly be the one to raise an objection if their corporate image, which they have taken pains to build up, is wantonly used on other operators' buses.

Yeah... I understand if you write it that way lol.