Originally posted by array88:Yes... Although that berth is now used by 31A, I believe can squeeze in one more svc.
They really pig brain eh... One big berth right there just for an SWT that operates only in the morning... I rather they split it in two and give them to 20 and 4...
Or give the whole berth to 4 and extend 20 to PSR...
Of all svc they give to 31A!! What are they thinking sia...
Although our bus routes are matured, I feel that eventually, with new towns opening and major developments, we have to revamp our bus routes, so that we do not have to always have new bus services, while at the same time we can maintain a certain level of bus connectivity.
Also, like this thread has mentioned, there is not enough space at the bus interchanges and terminals for so many bus services.
I was wondering if we could have a Larkin Bus Terminal at the city. Larkin Bus Terminal has up to around 87 bus parking lots. It is around 3.65 Hectares. We can build a bus interchange of the same size at Nicoll Highway area by re-routing Republic Avenue to create the 3.65 Hectares of land, since that area is kinda like a wasted space anyway.
The bus interchange at the city can have bus services that go to every residential town and neighborhoods in Singapore. Singapore has up to around thirty towns (including future towns). We can have around thirty bus services, each runs along the entire city area and connects to every neighborhood in a residential town, running express between the city and the residential town it serves.
These bus services will then terminate at the interchanges in the residential town they serve, or at a bus interchange/terminal near the residential town. Likewise, this is where the reverse direction starts, and ends at the city.
The route can be very long (up to 55km), but the travel time can be restricted to a certain duration (up to around 90mins; 1.5hrs), by using bus lanes, major roads, expressways and special traffic lights.
The primary purpose is to connect to the city. The secondary purpose is to connect every neighborhood in a town together. Every town has bus connection to the city and every neighborhood in a town is connected.
Although the long-distance bus services may be up to three times slower than the MRT, it does offer a direct connection to the city. For fast connection, one can take the MRT.
This will over-write all the bus services at Marina Centre Bus Terminal and Shenton Way Bus Terminal. These bus terminals can then be replaced and their land can be used for other purposes.
Whereas for the spare capacity at the bus interchange at the city after we have around thirty bus services, we can use them to accommodate cross-boarder bus services - operated by Malaysia's own bus companies - to the various residential areas in Johor Bahru.
Meanwhile, we can use the bus interchanges at the residential towns to have bus services that run directly to every bus interchanges in Singapore. Currently, there are around eighteen bus interchanges. In future, there may be around five more, total around twenty three. We can have up to around twenty two such bus services at every bus interchange. These bus services run direct between the bus interchanges and only call at every bus stop in the two residential towns where the two bus interchanges are in.
A former user by the name "Path Light" used to "recommend" (spam) such bus routes, but for my recommendation, I am going further to recommend that every bus interchange has bus services to every other bus interchanges in Singapore.
This, along with the direct bus services to the city, can replace almost every basic bus service in Singapore.
I think this will bring about an overall improvement to the bus connectivity in Singapore.
The only exception is bus services at the industrial estates, changi airport, the zoo and the cemetery area. These areas can have their own bus terminals to have bus services that connect to the nearest MRT stations.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:The new Yishun temp interchange is much smoother than the original one. Even though the number of services has increased + frequency of buses, it doesn't seem a huge mess. One of the reasons is many of the bendies have been replaced with rigids and sv 856/857 have got DDs. So fewer bendies, fewer problems.
WRI also major issue is because of bendies.
Left with 3 feeders, 2 intratown and 2 trunks.
The temp int is good. The same cannot be said for the ITH. For 804, ideal fleet is 2 split DD, 3 S2 bendies and 4 AP DDs.
WRI case is 911, 5 AP DDs to add on to existing fleet and remove some rigids.
Sembawang Int is bulit to better manage services in the area. This interchange has no feeder services. However, the small amount of services may need to expand fast. BSEP has added 117, 859B and 882A. It has also modified 859A. The upcoming Canberra sub-divison will also need services.
I have no idea how much more it would take before exploding.
Originally posted by SMB145B:Left with 3 feeders, 2 intratown and 2 trunks.
The temp int is good. The same cannot be said for the ITH. For 804, ideal fleet is 2 split DD, 3 S2 bendies and 4 AP DDs.
WRI case is 911, 5 AP DDs to add on to existing fleet and remove some rigids.
Actually 912,913 is better to have DD not 911, 911 second stop at east side alot of people drop. 911 1st stop on west side also the same. The residential area served by 911 is near and can be reached fast on 911.
Whereas 912,913. The main residential area are at least 15 mins away like Ring Rd, Woodlands Circle. But 913 got duplication with 5 others at Ave 7 plus 964 at ave 6. But 912 wise, almost no duplication throughout most of the routes thus suitable for DDs coz there is only 1 service needed to serve the resident and the nearest MRT is far from their residential area.
911 wise got 858 and 169 around their area plus from interchange to the residential areas, at most take 5 mins to the 1st bus stop and i believe shld take less than 30 mins to complete 1 round and it does not serve alot of catchment area. 913 also but can use DD for people living at Woodlands Circle.
912 could use 7 DDs coz from interchange to their residents is far compared to 911/913 thus feasibility for DD for the comfort of people. 911 can have A24 to survive with. 913 half half can
Originally posted by TIB 585L:Actually 912,913 is better to have DD not 911, 911 second stop at east side alot of people drop. 911 1st stop on west side also the same. The residential area served by 911 is near and can be reached fast on 911.
Whereas 912,913. The main residential area are at least 15 mins away like Ring Rd, Woodlands Circle. But 913 got duplication with 5 others at Ave 7 plus 964 at ave 6. But 912 wise, almost no duplication throughout most of the routes thus suitable for DDs coz there is only 1 service needed to serve the resident and the nearest MRT is far from their residential area.
911 wise got 858 and 169 around their area plus from interchange to the residential areas, at most take 5 mins to the 1st bus stop and i believe shld take less than 30 mins to complete 1 round and it does not serve alot of catchment area. 913 also but can use DD for people living at Woodlands Circle.
912 could use 7 DDs coz from interchange to their residents is far compared to 911/913 thus feasibility for DD for the comfort of people. 911 can have A24 to survive with. 913 half half can
913 CANNOT have DDs...
The route stops at Admiralty... Not once, not twice, but FOUR TIMES. Using DDs will result in catastrophic unloading problems, in turn delaying the bus severely. Given how ppl only take max 5 stops nobody will go up. Whatever svc you throw your DDs on, 913 is one svc u cannot touch...
Originally posted by SMB128B:913 CANNOT have DDs...
The route stops at Admiralty... Not once, not twice, but FOUR TIMES. Using DDs will result in catastrophic unloading problems, in turn delaying the bus severely. Given how ppl only take max 5 stops nobody will go up. Whatever svc you throw your DDs on, 913 is one svc u cannot touch...
913 and 964 runs in parallel until WDL Ave 6. Getting rid of rigids on 964 is 1st and then the bendies on 964.
Putting rigids on 913 isn't helping much.
Originally posted by jurongresident:Meanwhile, we can use the bus interchanges at the residential towns to have bus services that run directly to every bus interchanges in Singapore. Currently, there are around eighteen bus interchanges. In future, there may be around five more, total around twenty three. We can have up to around twenty two such bus services at every bus interchange. These bus services run direct between the bus interchanges and only call at every bus stop in the two residential towns where the two bus interchanges are in.A former user by the name "Path Light" used to "recommend" (spam) such bus routes, but for my recommendation, I am going further to recommend that every bus interchange has bus services to every other bus interchanges in Singapore.
This, along with the direct bus services to the city, can replace almost every basic bus service in Singapore. The only exception is bus services at the industrial estates, changi airport, the zoo and the cemetery area. These areas can have their own bus terminals to have bus services that connect to the nearest MRT stations.
Dream on.
MRT has replaced buses as the primary mode of transport, especially for long distances. Introducing additional cross-island bus services to every bus interchange is unnecessary and ridiculous, not to mention there will be a lot of duplications along main roads, and the minor places in between that will not be covered as a result.
What, in your opinion, would be the difference between a Joo Koon - Eunos, Joo Koon - Bedok, Joo Koon - Tampines, and Joo Koon - Pasir Ris?
There are currently 24 bus interchanges (incl. Joo Koon, BPJ, YCK). Suppose if they were all given connections to each other, that'd be (23+22+21+...+1= ) 276 bus services. Then again, most of them cannot even accomodate 23 services, in addition to their local feeders.
Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:No need. Too long a route and how will you extend to Pasir Ris. Connection between ave 7 and Temasek will go. There is 15 from Temasek to Pasir Ris.
I believe he's suggesting extend 8 to Pasir Ris via Tampines Ave 12/PSR Dr 8 or some sort... So that Tampines Ave 7 residents get a more direct connection to Pasir Ris Central (instead of the winding 21).
Originally posted by jurongresident:Although our bus routes are matured, I feel that eventually, with new towns opening and major developments, we have to revamp our bus routes, so that we do not have to always have new bus services, while at the same time we can maintain a certain level of bus connectivity.
Also, like this thread has mentioned, there is not enough space at the bus interchanges and terminals for so many bus services.
I was wondering if we could have a Larkin Bus Terminal at the city. Larkin Bus Terminal has up to around 87 bus parking lots. It is around 3.65 Hectares. We can build a bus interchange of the same size at Nicoll Highway area by re-routing Republic Avenue to create the 3.65 Hectares of land, since that area is kinda like a wasted space anyway.
The bus interchange at the city can have bus services that go to every residential town and neighborhoods in Singapore. Singapore has up to around thirty towns (including future towns). We can have around thirty bus services, each runs along the entire city area and connects to every neighborhood in a residential town, running express between the city and the residential town it serves.
These bus services will then terminate at the interchanges in the residential town they serve, or at a bus interchange/terminal near the residential town. Likewise, this is where the reverse direction starts, and ends at the city.
The route can be very long (up to 55km), but the travel time can be restricted to a certain duration (up to around 90mins; 1.5hrs), by using bus lanes, major roads, expressways and special traffic lights.
The primary purpose is to connect to the city. The secondary purpose is to connect every neighborhood in a town together. Every town has bus connection to the city and every neighborhood in a town is connected.
Although the long-distance bus services may be up to three times slower than the MRT, it does offer a direct connection to the city. For fast connection, one can take the MRT.
This will over-write all the bus services at Marina Centre Bus Terminal and Shenton Way Bus Terminal. These bus terminals can then be replaced and their land can be used for other purposes.
Whereas for the spare capacity at the bus interchange at the city after we have around thirty bus services, we can use them to accommodate cross-boarder bus services - operated by Malaysia's own bus companies - to the various residential areas in Johor Bahru.
Meanwhile, we can use the bus interchanges at the residential towns to have bus services that run directly to every bus interchanges in Singapore. Currently, there are around eighteen bus interchanges. In future, there may be around five more, total around twenty three. We can have up to around twenty two such bus services at every bus interchange. These bus services run direct between the bus interchanges and only call at every bus stop in the two residential towns where the two bus interchanges are in.
A former user by the name "Path Light" used to "recommend" (spam) such bus routes, but for my recommendation, I am going further to recommend that every bus interchange has bus services to every other bus interchanges in Singapore.
This, along with the direct bus services to the city, can replace almost every basic bus service in Singapore.
I think this will bring about an overall improvement to the bus connectivity in Singapore.
The only exception is bus services at the industrial estates, changi airport, the zoo and the cemetery area. These areas can have their own bus terminals to have bus services that connect to the nearest MRT stations.
Your idea will work if there was no MRT.
Originally posted by SMB128B:913 CANNOT have DDs...
The route stops at Admiralty... Not once, not twice, but FOUR TIMES. Using DDs will result in catastrophic unloading problems, in turn delaying the bus severely. Given how ppl only take max 5 stops nobody will go up. Whatever svc you throw your DDs on, 913 is one svc u cannot touch...
Why say 913 cannot have DDs when 225G/W already have DDs?
Originally posted by SMB145B:Sembawang Int is bulit to better manage services in the area. This interchange has no feeder services. However, the small amount of services may need to expand fast. BSEP has added 117, 859B and 882A. It has also modified 859A. The upcoming Canberra sub-divison will also need services.
I have no idea how much more it would take before exploding.
Can just extend some Woodlands/Yishun services to Sembawang. Yes it duplicates MRT, but at the same time also provides better inter-town connectivity for Sembawang and eases the congested Woodlands/Yishun interchanges.
Originally posted by array88:
Can just extend some Woodlands/Yishun services to Sembawang. Yes it duplicates MRT, but at the same time also provides better inter-town connectivity for Sembawang and eases the congested Woodlands/Yishun interchanges.
Berth 1A 167, 882/882A
Berth 1B 980, 981
Berth 2 859, 859A, 859B
Berth 3 117, JUR, MSP
unless you want a queue line that is drawn ...
but pulling 852 into SBW,
852
Sembawang Int > Sembawang Vista > Canberra Road > Wellington Circle > Montreal Drive > Montreal Link > Sembawang Road > Yishun Ave 2 > (Current 852 to Bukit Batok)
882 has seen an increase of pax leading to more buses being deployed.
Originally posted by array88:
Why say 913 cannot have DDs when 225G/W already have DDs?
Ah 225G/W is different case, only DD as HC buses, 913 can choose btwn DD or bendies, 225G/W only DD so no choice use DD lor even though many people would stop like 2 bus stop aka 5 mins away from interchange.
Originally posted by SMB145B:Berth 1A 167, 882/882A
Berth 1B 980, 981
Berth 2 859, 859A, 859B
Berth 3 117, JUR, MSP
unless you want a queue line that is drawn ...
but pulling 852 into SBW,
852
Sembawang Int > Sembawang Vista > Canberra Road > Wellington Circle > Montreal Drive > Montreal Link > Sembawang Road > Yishun Ave 2 > (Current 852 to Bukit Batok)
882 has seen an increase of pax leading to more buses being deployed.
They can extend 171 to SBW if they want to and skip the Yishun Ave 5 section coz duplicating alot of svc there.
Originally posted by array88:
Can just extend some Woodlands/Yishun services to Sembawang. Yes it duplicates MRT, but at the same time also provides better inter-town connectivity for Sembawang and eases the congested Woodlands/Yishun interchanges.
Consider improving the efficiency of the existing services first. 859 & its variants, plus the ridiculous downroute duplication of 167 & 980, are not helpful in welcoming new services.
Originally posted by TIB 585L:They can extend 171 to SBW if they want to and skip the Yishun Ave 5 section coz duplicating alot of svc there.
171 is somewhat too long to be extended, even if the extension would be helpful to Sembawang residents. I wouldn't mind if the Bt Timah - CBD section is cut and replaced, but thus far no plans on that yet. Ave 5 section can amend 859 away.
What about 85?
Originally posted by array88:
Why say 913 cannot have DDs when 225G/W already have DDs?
I really dont know why you all always use 225G/W as example.
Lets clear it for once and for all.
Firstly, how many times does 225 ply the MRT station stops? Clearly there isnt the need to evacuate mass amounts of passengers in a short time, as plying MRT stops mid-route means a need for fast clearance to ensure smooth operations.
913 has a MUCH higher turnover rate on overall. At Admiralty, people both board AND alight. For 225, people only alight at the int.
Same goes for 291 and 293. Besides the int, how many times do they come near the MRT? It is unfair to compare this way. 913 has to unload and load way more often than any of these svcs.
Rather, you should compare with 222, which ofc is a disaster. Frequent bunchings/delays, horrifically slow boarding and alighting at Bedok MRT, and unfilled upper decks.
So there, 913 should get bendies, not DDs.
Originally posted by TIB 585L:Ah 225G/W is different case, only DD as HC buses, 913 can choose btwn DD or bendies, 225G/W only DD so no choice use DD lor even though many people would stop like 2 bus stop aka 5 mins away from interchange.
The DDs on 225G/W used to get utilized very well before BSEP kicked in more additions (though current fleet could manage). You could see full upper deck. Now with so many buses added and frequency at 03 mins, DDs seldom get full on 225G/W. Likewise for other feeder services operated by BNDEP.
Originally posted by SMB128B:I really dont know why you all always use 225G/W as example.
Lets clear it for once and for all.
Firstly, how many times does 225 ply the MRT station stops? Clearly there isnt the need to evacuate mass amounts of passengers in a short time, as plying MRT stops mid-route means a need for fast clearance to ensure smooth operations.
913 has a MUCH higher turnover rate on overall. At Admiralty, people both board AND alight. For 225, people only alight at the int.
Same goes for 291 and 293. Besides the int, how many times do they come near the MRT? It is unfair to compare this way. 913 has to unload and load way more often than any of these svcs.
Rather, you should compare with 222, which ofc is a disaster. Frequent bunchings/delays, horrifically slow boarding and alighting at Bedok MRT, and unfilled upper decks.
So there, 913 should get bendies, not DDs.
I support that bendies are preferable for 913 compared to DDs but please don't say 222 has unfilled upper decks. Again, point of reference is when 4 BSEP + PPSS wasn't kicked in for 222. Before that 222 DDs were a savior, each getting 100 pax with full upper deck on both sides of Bedok MRT.
Now with 4 BSEP buses added, there is OFCOURSE going to be bunching. There are so many instances you see SD --> SD --> DD back to back. It is because LTA has added buses on 222/285/291/293 like no one's business. These services can just operate as full fleet SD also can manage now.
My view on Woodlands Intra-towns / Feeders
911 - Bendies/SDs (I am upset at how many rigids have been added. Rigids are not able to tank load at st 81/82/83. This was once full fleet bendy, now only at 50%. Ridiculous!)
912 - DDs only! (lot of rigids added. As others mentioned it is the only option unlike other services to get to ave 1, ave 5 on both sides. Lots of people travel long distance and upper deck will be well utilized. In fact many take to Woodlands Checkpoint even from ave 5 can just go upper deck)
913 - Bendies only (irritates me that for such a high volume HDB town area that 913 caters, rigids are also deployed. 913 should have bendies because proximity between HDBs at Circle and Admiralty is very low. So bendies will help tank load)
900 - DDs can be easily used as it is point to point (rigids cannot tank the load)
901 - DDs can be easily used as those further away near ave 12 can just go upper deck (rigids cannot tank the load)
902 - Bendies (can just stuff everyone on lower deck for one stop)
903 - DDs (this is classic example where DDs will be perfect as the Marsiling HDBs are quite far from MRT and people would love to go upper deck)
My views on CCK feeders/intra-towns
300 - now can have capacity downgrade and fleet of 9 buses (5 bendies, 4 rigids)
301 - can have fleet add with Keat Hong Close (2 bendies + 4 rigids)
302 - full fleet bendy only
307 - rigids doing okay!
983 though not feeder, should be full fleet DD IMO.
My views on Yishun feeders/intra towns
800 - can be majority fleet rigid, some bendies can be kicked out to other services
803 - rigids doing okay
804 - can do well with DDs given the HDBs along ave 1 and st 41 are quite far from MRT
806 - can do well with DDs given the HDBs along ave 6 / st 31 are quite far from MRT
811 - bendies are better option. So many rigids have been added to compensate for lack of bendies. 811 does Yishun MRT multiple times so bendies would be preferred option
812 - bendies are better option given most HDBs on its route are close to MRT
860 - though not feeder, I think bendies is better choice than DD though DDs may not be bas as well. Given 860 is WAB, there may not be enough bendies to give so DDs may have to be unless transferred from 804.
IMO 804/806 better suited for DDs than 860.
Originally posted by AJQZC:Dream on.
MRT has replaced buses as the primary mode of transport, especially for long distances. Introducing additional cross-island bus services to every bus interchange is unnecessary and ridiculous, not to mention there will be a lot of duplications along main roads, and the minor places in between that will not be covered as a result.
What, in your opinion, would be the difference between a Joo Koon - Eunos, Joo Koon - Bedok, Joo Koon - Tampines, and Joo Koon - Pasir Ris?
There are currently 24 bus interchanges (incl. Joo Koon, BPJ, YCK). Suppose if they were all given connections to each other, that'd be (23+22+21+...+1= ) 276 bus services. Then again, most of them cannot even accomodate 23 services, in addition to their local feeders.
Okay, maybe not every bus interchange, because this would lead to wasteful duplications, and there may not be enough capacity.
But at least every residential planning area.
Whereas for the missing connections within a residential planning area, feeder bus services or short trunk bus services can fill up the gap.