Originally posted by gekpohboy:but, from the replies here in this thread, it seems that on the contrary, bus lobbyists want Scania K230UB, not Mercedes Benz Citaro 0530.
so, if I succeed getting the authorities to buy Scania K230UBs, I will be attacked by the bus lobbyists for helping them get what they want? It does not make sense.
by the way, please avoid using those complicated words (vitriol & gutter). i did not even bother checking the dictionary, but only guess the meaning.
You haven't been here long enough. Try going through the archives or social media groups.
Originally posted by gekpohboy:So, which bus you prefer?
No particular preference.
If I am carrying luggage, I would like a K230UB. If I was rushing for time, a MAN A22. If I was taking a few stops, a Citaro.
Actually the main purpose for Scania KUBs are to replace the old mercedes buses 0405 buses while the citaros are used to replace the retiring volvo MKIII/B10Ms..
But really, Scania KUBs are much better imo. Yes i do agree the pickup of the KUBs are much slower than the citaros but the interior of the citaro is super squeezy. Also, there can only be a 1 row of passengers standing in the citaro while the Scania KUB can fit 2 rows. And there's a super huge compartment at the back, wasting opportunity cost for implementing 1-2 more seats. Scania KUBs can be jerky, but trust me the legroom you have will compensate for the "jerkiness".
Not to mention the unadjustable aircon ducts as well.. Sometimes on hot days its super hot and you can't feel the air-con as well. The sensors on the back doors can be quite frustrating at times as the drivers are unable to close the doors if the bus is super crowded and one of the items/ the foot of the passenger goes close to the sensor. You can feel the heat when seating at the back of the bus already.. and the citaros are only bought for less than 3 years? if im not wrong
From driver's perspective, they just dont like the position of the door opening and closing buttons in the citaros, as they are more used to the traditional style, where the door closing and opening buttons are on their right.
Originally posted by gekpohboy:actually, from the bus driver perspective, they prefer Mercedes, so it’s definitely Mercedes Benz Citaro. because the Mercedes engine more reliable ma; won’t so easily spoil. although Mercedes vehicle more expensive, but there’s less maintenance required. so, I think in terms of long term expenditure, Mercedes Benz Citaro is better because it’s cheaper.
actually, I have been following this forum for quite a while, since around 2009, so I know roughly why. From what’s written here last time, some ppl say that it’s because the Scania K230UB not nice, that’s why SBS regret buying, and dun wanna buy anymore of them.
or… is the reason the same as what I wrote in the first paragraph, about Mercedes engine being more reliable?
Who says mercedes benz citaro is cheaper?? Mercedes Benz itself is already a premium and superior good and utilises exclusive distribution in Singapore by Cycle and carriage, and i am sure that their buses do not come cheap as well otherwise everywhere in the world are already using their buses already ad not volvo or man..
Imo the scania kubs are cheaper.. and SBS Transit does get discounts for bulk purchases, that's why they bought 1,001 Scania KUBs at once. Of course imo MAN A22 is the best in terms of pickup speed and comfortability. Scania KUBs for legroom.
Originally posted by SBS5010P:Who says mercedes benz citaro is cheaper?? Mercedes Benz itself is already a premium and superior good and utilises exclusive distribution in Singapore by Cycle and carriage, and i am sure that their buses do not come cheap as well otherwise everywhere in the world are already using their buses already ad not volvo or man..
Imo the scania kubs are cheaper.. and SBS Transit does get discounts for bulk purchases, that's why they bought 1,001 Scania KUBs at once. Of course imo MAN A22 is the best in terms of pickup speed and comfortability. Scania KUBs for legroom.
K230UB is cheaper because they only buy the chassis and the basic engine spec,Try buy a CBU Scania with their own bodyworks and of course engine options as well.
Originally posted by carbikebus:K230UB is cheaper because they only buy the chassis and the basic engine spec,Try buy a CBU Scania with their own bodyworks and of course engine options as well.
Citaro they only buy the chassis also what no meh? From what i know SBST buys the chassis of Volvo B9TLs
I would choose Citaro.
Why?
- Wider seats for all, more comfortable. Compared to just 1 wide seats on KUB.
- Better comfort, not much vibrations.
- Engine sounds alright, not like crappy KUBs.
BUT
- Air-conditioning can be improve for some units. Overall, they aren't that bad afterall.
Even OCs are better than KUBs...
Originally posted by SBS5010P:Citaro they only buy the chassis also what no meh? From what i know SBST buys the chassis of Volvo B9TLs
Are you drunk?Citaro is a completely built up unit.
Originally posted by TIB429E:I would choose Citaro.
Why?
- Wider seats for all, more comfortable. Compared to just 1 wide seats on KUB.
- Better comfort, not much vibrations.
- Engine sounds alright, not like crappy KUBs.BUT
- Air-conditioning can be improve for some units. Overall, they aren't that bad afterall.Even OCs are better than KUBs...
KUBs is okay provided they dont restrictes the acceleration and maintain well..Its already have only 230hp so dont expect it to be a rocket.OCs is good but only letdown by SMRT crappy maintenance..I knew some OCs can speed up at highways overtaking lorroes and vans too.
Originally posted by carbikebus:Are you drunk?Citaro is a completely built up unit.
carbikebus, you prefer Scania k230ub or Mercedes Benz Citaro?
Originally posted by gekpohboy:carbikebus, you prefer Scania k230ub or Mercedes Benz Citaro?
I dont have any preferences,A well maintain K230UB with great acceleration and top speed of 65kmh is already good..Unrestricted Citaros also good compared to restricted A22s.Sometimes HP and Torque is just a figure only..
Actuallly, I am also neutral. For me, I am only concerned about the costs. I do not care about the comfort, since the seats and stuff are all designed with ergonomics and stuff in mind.
About the costs, I am looking at the cash flow analysis, about the cumulative cash flow (cumulative energy savings - cumulative maintenance costs - initial capital costs) after a period of time (the higher the better), about how long it takes to break even (the shorter the better).
Of course, only the people working for LTA, SBS, SMRT, etcetera. would know the costs and savings of the bus model. So, I am not able to compare the costs of Scania k230ub and Mercedes Benz Citaro and say which bus model has a higher projected cash flow.
What we (the commoners) can do is only to choose which seat design, etcetera. we prefer, and I think that's about it. In this case, I am neutral.
Pretty much any SMRT buses (performance-wise) except the E500. Most of their buses (especially the older O405Gs) fly down the expressways. It feels much faster than most other HC buses.
SBST O405s and earlier VOs deserved a mention though
Originally posted by carbikebus:KUBs is okay provided they dont restrictes the acceleration and maintain well..Its already have only 230hp so dont expect it to be a rocket.OCs is good but only letdown by SMRT crappy maintenance..I knew some OCs can speed up at highways overtaking lorroes and vans too.
AMDEP OCs are well maintained, especially those from 851. Infact, they are the remaining OCs that is as good as a brand new one.
KUB - Most of it is damn crappy, some even worst than the poor maintained OC in SMRT fleet.
If Citaro wise, SBST ones are better in terms of air-conditioning.
Originally posted by TIB429E:AMDEP OCs are well maintained, especially those from 851. Infact, they are the remaining OCs that is as good as a brand new one.
KUB - Most of it is damn crappy, some even worst than the poor maintained OC in SMRT fleet.
If Citaro wise, SBST ones are better in terms of air-conditioning.
Worst is EEV... Worst bus make ever, better off not made in the first place... Nothing good about it, yet have so many disadvantage...
Originally posted by SMB128B:Worst is EEV... Worst bus make ever, better off not made in the first place... Nothing good about it, yet have so many disadvantage...
Are you sure there is nothing good about it?
Higher capacity than Citaro. When going to school, I always hope that KUB will come instead of the Citaro 'sardine cans', if not a DD.
ZF gearbox, unlike Voith gearbox for Citaros. Better for bus services that don't use expressways.
Adjustable air-con balls unlike Citaro. The Citaro is often really cold at night.
I have seen a newspaper article which says that Indonesia's public transport is really bad. The buses there are worse maintained and much louder than badly maintained KUB.
Personally, I feel that I am neutral with both bus models, mainly because both have its ups and downsides. If the Citaros' interior gets modified, i.e adjustable A/C ducts, thicker seat cushions and wider walkway, it could very much be better. KUBs? Maybe fine-tuning the suspensions and the gearbox to further reduce jerkiness, reconfigure the priority seats on the older batches could do the trick.
Originally posted by SG1080A:Personally, I feel that I am neutral with both bus models, mainly because both have its ups and downsides. If the Citaros' interior gets modified, i.e adjustable A/C ducts, thicker seat cushions and wider walkway, it could very much be better. KUBs? Maybe fine-tuning the suspensions and the gearbox to further reduce jerkiness, reconfigure the priority seats on the older batches could do the trick.
They vibrate vigourously due to the aircon unit integrated with engine switch system unlike SMRT which has separate unit.To reduce heat,SBST tune the radiator to active mode thus the loud fan sound and tend to vibrate during idling,Im not a pro but a few of SBST mechanics told me this.
Originally posted by SBS3004X:Are you sure there is nothing good about it?
Higher capacity than Citaro. When going to school, I always hope that KUB will come instead of the Citaro 'sardine cans', if not a DD.
ZF gearbox, unlike Voith gearbox for Citaros. Better for bus services that don't use expressways.
Adjustable air-con balls unlike Citaro. The Citaro is often really cold at night.
I have seen a newspaper article which says that Indonesia's public transport is really bad. The buses there are worse maintained and much louder than badly maintained KUB.
All these the E4 also have... Name me any exclusive benefits the EEVs have?
In fact E4 have even higher capacity as they dont have that three seats there...
If thats the case I'd rather they produce more E4s... Anyways the EEVs arent doing the best job in reducing pollution...
And hey, this is Singapore, NOT Indonesia...
LTA should bring back LE buses..There is a new Euro VI OC500LE with 7700cc 299hp/1200nm or Volvo B8RLE.Gemilang or Soon Chow can do the body fittings.
hmm soon chow bodied buses is rarely seen. PA-plated O405s with SBS Leisure livery?
Originally posted by SMB145B:hmm soon chow bodied buses is rarely seen. PA-plated O405s with SBS Leisure livery?
8030 bodied by SC,NUS B9L also from SC.
Originally posted by ButIAmAToilet:Pretty much any SMRT buses (performance-wise) except the E500. Most of their buses (especially the older O405Gs) fly down the expressways. It feels much faster than most other HC buses.
SBST O405s and earlier VOs deserved a mention though
Some of 190,857,960,966 & 966 E500s can speed over 60kmh especially the earlier batch.
Originally posted by carbikebus:8030 bodied by SC,NUS B9L also from SC.
some of old B10Ms were bodied by SC
it's great if they do up the B9T and B5LEA (despite the fact that LTA hates bendies)