Example of time savings on 974
Choa Chu Kang MRT to Pioneer MRT
NSL & EWL: 18mins; 12.2km
974: 38mins; 11.3km
Time savings: -20mins; 0.9km
(please note the negative sign; it’s 20mins longer, not shorter)
Bukit Panjang MRT to Pioneer MRT
LRT, NSL & EWL: 27mins; 15km
974: 53mins; 14.9km
Time savings: -26mins; 0.1km
(please note the negative sign; it’s 26mins longer, not shorter)
Pioneer MRT to Joo Koon MRT
EWL: 4mins; 2.6km
974: 13mins; 3.1km
Time savings: -9mins; -0.5km
(please note the negative sign; it’s 9mins longer, not shorter)
Boon Lay MRT to ITE West
180: 34mins; 9km (Boon Lay Int to Opp Bt Batok Fire Stn)
974: 40mins; 12.3km (Opp Blk 662C to Blk 26)
Time savings: -6mins; -3.3km
(please note the negative sign; it’s 6mins longer, not shorter)
Boon Lay MRT to Bukit Panjang MRT
EWL, NSL & LRT: 25mins; 14.0km
180: 39mins; 10.4km (Boon Lay Int to Bt Panjang Stn Exit A)
974: 44mins; 13.3km (Opp Blk 662C to Aft Bt Panjang Stn)
Time savings: -19mins; 0.7km (as compared to MRT)
(please note the negative sign; it’s 19mins longer, not shorter)
Lot 1 Shoppers' Mall to Westwood Sec Sch
172: 32mins; 10.8km
974: 24mins; 7.6km
Time savings: 8mins; 3.2km
Conclusion: 974 will only benefit a select group of people. ie. CCK people travelling from Lot 1 Shoppers' Mall to Westwood Sec Sch and the Mosque at Jalan Bahar. For inter-town travel, it’s actually better to take the MRT than to take 974 as travelling time is shorter.
Considering there’s almost no time savings, can someone enlighten me, is relieving the loading of 172 the only reason for having 974? Because if that’s the case, it would be better to introduce limited-stops 172 instead.
Because from what I see, 974 is going to be very un-utilised. With only additional capacity as the incentive, very few people would want to take 974 instead of 172 or the MRT.
Also, 974 doesn’t exactly cover 172 areas in Choa Chu Kang, so how does this serve as a complementary service of 172?
In my opinion, 974 may need re-routing in Choa Chu Kang and retracting to Boon Lay; going all the way to Joo Koon may not be necessary.
974 can become a service that originates at Gali Batu, duplicates 172 at Choa Chu Kang and Jurong West, and loops around Boon Lay Bus Interchange.
Originally posted by SG1131L:Considering there’s almost no time savings, can someone enlighten me, is relieving the loading of 172 the only reason for having 974? Because if that’s the case, it would be better to introduce limited-stops 172 instead.
Because from what I see, 974 is going to be very un-utilised. With only additional capacity as the incentive, very few people would want to take 974 instead of 172 or the MRT.
Also, 974 doesn’t exactly cover 172 areas in Choa Chu Kang, so how does this serve as a complementary service of 172?
In my opinion, 974 may need re-routing in Choa Chu Kang and retracting to Boon Lay; going all the way to Joo Koon may not be necessary.
974 can become a service that originates at Gali Batu, duplicates 172 at Choa Chu Kang and Jurong West, and loops around Boon Lay Bus Interchange.
Originate from Gali Batu might be possible, pointing to the fact that it starts frm the bus park, and other services that originate frm the bus park will terminate at gali batu in the future
Originally posted by SG1131L:Example of time savings on 974
Choa Chu Kang MRT to Pioneer MRT
NSL & EWL: 18mins; 12.2km
974: 38mins; 11.3km
Time savings: -20mins; 0.9km
(please note the negative sign; it’s 20mins longer, not shorter)
Bukit Panjang MRT to Pioneer MRT
LRT, NSL & EWL: 27mins; 15km
974: 53mins; 14.9km
Time savings: -26mins; 0.1km
(please note the negative sign; it’s 26mins longer, not shorter)
Pioneer MRT to Joo Koon MRT
EWL: 4mins; 2.6km
974: 13mins; 3.1km
Time savings: -9mins; -0.5km
(please note the negative sign; it’s 9mins longer, not shorter)
Boon Lay MRT to ITE West
180: 34mins; 9km (Boon Lay Int to Opp Bt Batok Fire Stn)
974: 40mins; 12.3km (Opp Blk 662C to Blk 26)
Time savings: -8mins; -3.3km
(please note the negative sign; it’s 8mins longer, not shorter)
Boon Lay MRT to Bukit Panjang MRT
EWL, NSL & LRT: 25mins; 14.0km
180: 39mins; 10.4km (Boon Lay Int to Bt Panjang Stn Exit A)
974: 44mins; 13.3km (Opp Blk 662C to Aft Bt Panjang Stn)
Time savings: -19mins; 0.7km (as compared to MRT)
(please note the negative sign; it’s 19mins longer, not shorter)
Lot 1 Shoppers' Mall to Westwood Sec Sch
172: 32mins; 10.8km
974: 24mins; 7.6km
Time savings: 8mins; 3.2km
Conclusion: 974 will only benefit a very localized section of the route. ie. CCK people travelling from Lot 1 Shoppers' Mall to Westwood Sec Sch and the Mosque at Jalan Bahar. For inter-town travel, it’s actually better to take the MRT than to take 974 as travelling time is shorter.
Not all commuters look at time savings only.
Many commuters don't mind spending a longer time on the bus because...
- some of them just want to sit down
- some of them want to take a nap after a long day at work
- some of them don't want to be judged for sitting down (e.g. military personnel in uniform)
- some of them want more privacy and personal space (What is personal space in the MRT?)
- some of them want a quieter ride (without all the train announcements)
- some of them don't want to change trains (esp at Jurong East which is super-chaotic during peak hours)
- some of them are travelling to/from locations served by buses but not MRT (e.g. Jurong Camp, Westwood Sec Sch, etc)
- some of them are bus fans but not train fans
Such commuters will be benefited by 974. These commuters are also the reason why many trunk routes that run parallel to MRT lines still exist today (e.g. svc 2, 70, 147).
Of course, if the bus ride is ridiculously long and winding, the extra time will outweigh the benefits above. 974 is good in a sense that it has an express sector so that the travelling time is still reasonable. It also saves the trouble of transferring for some commuters (e.g. Jurong Camp to CCK MRT: (1) 192 > EWL > NSL = 2 transfers, (2) 974 = direct)
By the way, transferring at Boon Lay and Jurong East can be quite stressful and slow.
From Jurong West St 63, you need to pass through 3 traffic junctions to get into Boon Lay interchange, and there can be a long queue of buses waiting to enter Boon Lay interchange. (Waiting times of more than 5 minutes are common during peak hour.) Once the bus enters Boon Lay interchange, you may be dropped off at the alighting berth furthest away from Boon Lay MRT. The interchange and Jurong Point can be very crowded, the entrance to Boon Lay MRT is facing Boon Lay Way and not Jurong Point, and there is only one escalator going up to the platform, so it takes time to get from the interchange to the MRT platform. (It can be really bad during peak hours.) 99% of the time, you won't get a seat on the MRT at Boon Lay during peak hours. Sometimes you may not even be able to get onto the train.
At Jurong East MRT during peak hours, your eastbound EWL train will arrive at platform B & C. The next NSL train to Marina Bay may depart at platform A on the left, or platform D on the right. You may see a train waiting at platform A, but once you alight the EWL and walk towards platform A, the NSL train closes its doors in your face and leaves. You either have to go down to the concourse and then go up to Platform D for the next NSL train, or wait for the second next NSL train at Platform A. While waiting for your NSL train, loads and loads of people get off from the EWL and join you in the queue. Once the NSL train arrives, everyone rushes in like a mob. If you are slow, the train door may even close before you can get on.
If you ask me to choose between 974 and the MRT, I will definitely choose 974. (I will only choose the MRT if I am in extreme hurry and KJE shows up as red on Google Map.)
The problem is where the hell they will get buses since their management so focua on cost saving dont want to lease more buses?
Summary of 974
Route Length: 18km (D1) | 17.4km (D2)
Travelling Time: 66mins (D1) | 64mins (D2)
Express Length: 7.1km (D1) | 7.5km (D2)
Express Duration: 22mins (D1) | 24mins (D2)
Pros:
- Fewer transfers required to get from Bukit Panjang and Choa Chu Kang to Jurong West.
- Higher probability of getting a seat on the public transport.
- Shorter travel distance for most intra-town connections (refer to the list above); potential lower fares for commuters.
- Alternative route to bypass traffic on the MRT during peak hours.
Cons:
- Longer travel time for all intra-town connections, except the one from Choa Chu Kang to Jalan Bahar.
- Potentially long and winding during peak hours, as most of the route may experience heavy traffic.
Originally posted by autumncs:Not all commuters look at time savings only.
Many commuters don't mind spending a longer time on the bus because...
- some of them just want to sit down
- some of them want to take a nap after a long day at work
- some of them don't want to be judged for sitting down (e.g. military personnel in uniform)
- some of them want more privacy and personal space (What is personal space in the MRT?)
- some of them want a quieter ride (without all the train announcements)
- some of them don't want to change trains (esp at Jurong East which is super-chaotic during peak hours)
- some of them are travelling to/from locations served by buses but not MRT (e.g. Jurong Camp, Westwood Sec Sch, etc)
- some of them are bus fans but not train fansSuch commuters will be benefited by 974. These commuters are also the reason why many trunk routes that run parallel to MRT lines still exist today (e.g. svc 2, 70, 147).
Of course, if the bus ride is ridiculously long and winding, the extra time will outweigh the benefits above. 974 is good in a sense that it has an express sector so that the travelling time is still reasonable. It also saves the trouble of transferring for some commuters (e.g. Jurong Camp to CCK MRT: (1) 192 > EWL > NSL = 2 transfers, (2) 974 = direct)
The fact that it reduces transfers is a very impt point till these days. Consider this as well: would u rather take a mid-haul flight to a destination direct, or have at least one transit when u have the option between the 2? (consider going to more small areas in regional countries like Indo and Aust)
actually 974 not only relieve 172, but also 180
those ITE students & working adults can take 974 to boon lay/ jurong west faster i guess
and maybe LTA saw ez-link data on working people taking 180 to west?
coz as far as i know, it is full of people in the morning twrds west & they usually alight at chinese gdn/lakeside to take MRT to get to industrial area? u never know...
Originally posted by carbikebus:No idea for Bidadari but I don't think the interchange is big also,Maybe like Joo Koon size.
265 & 268 I prefer to start from YCK Int once the extension is completed
LTA should have a bus link between Toa Payoh and Bidadari.
Originally posted by SG1131L:Considering there’s almost no time savings, can someone enlighten me, is relieving the loading of 172 the only reason for having 974? Because if that’s the case, it would be better to introduce limited-stops 172 instead.
Because from what I see, 974 is going to be very un-utilised. With only additional capacity as the incentive, very few people would want to take 974 instead of 172 or the MRT.
Also, 974 doesn’t exactly cover 172 areas in Choa Chu Kang, so how does this serve as a complementary service of 172?
In my opinion, 974 may need re-routing in Choa Chu Kang and retracting to Boon Lay; going all the way to Joo Koon may not be necessary.
974 can become a service that originates at Gali Batu, duplicates 172 at Choa Chu Kang and Jurong West, and loops around Boon Lay Bus Interchange.
You have got it completely wrong.
People would prefer spending 20 mins more on a direct bus from BPJ to Pioneer than do 3 transfers. Also CCK is a huge town in itself and can have a good patronage between JW and CCK/BPJ towns. In addition, NTU students will find this service extremely useful too.
Moreover note 172 and 974 cater to completely different areas in CCK with only common stop is CCK MRT. From CCK MRT to JW, it is no brainer that 974 will be faster.
I foresee heavy AM loading from CCK to JW but lower loading in opposite direction and vice versa.
68 estimated travel time and distance, based on existing bus routes and estimation
518 from Pasir Ris Int to Pasir Ris Elias CC - 3mins; 1.1km
New section from Pasir Ris Elias CC to Opp Ris Grandeur - 4mins; 0.8km
3 from Opp Ris Grandeur to Blk 747A - 5mins; 1.2km
58 from Blk 747A to Opp Tampines Dormitory - 6mins; 1.4km
New section from Opp Tampines Dormitory to The Tampines Trilliant - 9mins; 1.7km
127 from The Tampines Trilliant to Tampines Int - 4mins; 0.7km
127 from Tampines Int to Bet Blks 524B/523D - 4mins; 0.7km
New section from Bet Blks 524B/523D to Tampines Dormitory - 9mins; 1.7km
58 from Tampines Dormitory to Aft TPE - 6mins; 1.3km
3 from Aft TPE to Ris Grandeur - 6mins; 1.5km
New section from Ris Grandeur to Opp Pasir Ris Elias CC - 4mins; 0.8km
518 from Opp Pasir Ris Elias CC to Pasir Ris Int - 3mins; 1.1km
Total travel time = 63mins; 14km
Example of time savings on 68
Pasir Ris Int to Meridian JC
359: 15mins; 3.2km
68: 10mins; 2.6km
Time savings: 5mins; 0.6km
Pasir Ris Int to Tampines IKEA
58: 16mins; 3.5km
68: 15mins; 3.7km
Time savings: 1min; -0.2km
Tampines Int to Tampines IKEA
72 & 27: 16mins; 3.7km
68: 16mins; 3.1km
Time savings: 0min; 0.6km
Tampines Int to Meridian JC
81: 26mins; 6.4km
68: 22mins; 4.5km
Time savings: 4mins; 1.9km
Conclusion: 68 will be popular.
Originally posted by SG1131L:Example of time savings on 68
Pasir Ris Int to Meridian JC
359: 15mins; 3.2km
68: 10mins; 2.6km
Time savings: 5mins; 0.6km
Pasir Ris Int to Tampines IKEA
58: 16mins; 3.5km
68: 15mins; 3.7km
Time savings: 1min; -0.2km
Tampines Int to Tampines IKEA
72 & 27: 16mins; 3.7km
68: 16mins; 3.1km
Time savings: 0min; 0.6km
Tampines Int to Meridian JC
81: 26mins; 6.4km
68: 22mins; 4.5km
Time savings: 4mins; 1.9km
Conclusion: 68 will be popular.
58 slower than 68?? How can that be possible when 58 route is more direct while 68 is a little bit more winding?
72 doesn't go to IKEA. It should be 27/168. Why would people take 68 when they get 27 and 168 outside Tampines MRT with superb frequency and they are used to it.
Not sure there will be many takers from Tampines Int to Meridian JC when most will prefer to take 3/68/359 from Pasir Ris (their current travel pattern).
Honestly, I hope 974 is not a one-off, but the first of many bus routes that use the KJE-PIE sector to enhance the North-West public transport connections, like those along the SLE-TPE sector in the North-East.
After connecting Bukit Panjang with Joo Koon, the next place to connect with could be Tuas, and the public transport connections between Woodlands, Choa Chu Kang and Jurong West could be enhanced.
And I think that’s about it. Unlike the North-East, the North-West has less areas.
The demand for North-West connection is not as great as the demand for North-East connection.
Good day.
Originally posted by SG1131L:Summary of 974
Route Length: 18km (D1) | 17.4km (D2)
Travelling Time: 66mins (D1) | 64mins (D2)
Express Length: 7.1km (D1) | 7.5km (D2)
Express Duration: 22mins (D1) | 24mins (D2)
Pros:
- Fewer transfers required to get from Bukit Panjang and Choa Chu Kang to Jurong West.
- Higher probability of getting a seat on the public transport.
- Shorter travel distance for most intra-town connections (refer to the list above); potential lower fares for commuters.
- Alternative route to bypass traffic on the MRT during peak hours.
Cons:
- Longer travel time for all intra-town connections, except the one from Choa Chu Kang to Jalan Bahar.
- Potentially long and winding during peak hours, as most of the route may experience heavy traffic.
false... 974 runtime is only 50 min
Originally posted by SBS2792K:false... 974 runtime is only 50 min
The critical part is the expressway sector... the timing was derived from other bus services that have express sector.
I know you are referring to the Tower Transit comment on their Facebook page. Idk how they derived 50-60mins “based on traffic conditions�, especially considering their buses have a device which restricts speed limit to 70km/h. But anyway, if the trip can be completed faster, then good la. The faster the better. Cuz honestly, if you are rushing for time, you will definitely opt for the fastest route, no matter how uncomfortable it may be.
I understand the concern by some forum-mers. I know how it feels. I used to take the MRT during morning peak hour 7-8am before. There were a few occasions when I was late, then I take taxi. Then got one time a taxi uncle told me... by the way, my school is in Clementi... the taxi uncle told me that at that hour, the fastest is to take MRT, cuz roads are congested... so yeah... can’t talk now... sorry. But I hope I’ve replied adequately to your response.
Originally posted by SG1131L:974 estimated travel time and distance, based on existing bus routes and estimation
99 from Joo Koon Int to SAFTI Military Inst - 5mins; 1km
192 from SAFTI Military Inst to Pioneer Stn Exit B - 9mins; 2.2km
179 from Pioneer Stn Exit B to Blk 664C - 3mins; 0.6km
New section from Blk 664C to Opp Blk 662C - 2mins; 0.3km
172 from Opp Blk 662C to Opp Westwood Sec Sch - 7mins; 2.4km
New section from Opp Westwood Sec Sch to Opp Northvale Condo - 24mins; 7.5km
307 from Opp Northvale Condo to Opp Choa Chu Kang Stn - 2mins; 0.5km
307 from Opp Choa Chu Kang Stn to Blk 352 - 1min; 0.3km
67 from Blk 352 to Phoenix Stn - 7mins; 1.9km
983 from Phoenix Stn to Aft Bt Panjang Stn - 3mins; 0.7km
Total for Direction 2 = 64mins; 17.4km
983 from Aft Bt Panjang Stn to Blk 183 - 2mins; 0.6km
963 from Blk 183 to Bt Panjang Stn Exit A/LRT - 1min; 0.3km
Total for “transition” to Direction 1 = 3mins; 0.9km
New section from Bt Panjang Stn Exit A/LRT to Blk 183 - 3mins; 0.7km
983 from Blk 183 to Opp Phoenix Stn - 3mins; 0.7km
67 from Opp Phoenix Stn to Blk 414 - 8mins; 2km
New section from Blk 414 to Northvale Condo - 4mins; 0.9km
New section from Northvale Condo to Westwood Sec Sch - 22mins; 7.1km
172 from Westwood Sec Sch to Blk 662D - 8mins; 2.6km
New section from Blk 662D to Blk 662A - 2mins; 0.3km
179 from Blk 662A to Pioneer Stn Exit A - 3mins; 0.6km
192 from Pioneer Stn Exit A to Opp SAFTI Military Inst - 9mins; 2.3km
99 from Opp SAFTI Military Inst to Joo Koon Int - 4mins; 0.8km
Total for Direction 1 = 66mins; 18km
Total travel time and distance for 974 = 133mins; 36.3km
I have a feeling that 974 will use Bukit Panjang Bus Park for bus drivers to rest, considering the total travel time and distance may be too long to drive continuously.
Doubt the run time between CCK to Jalan Bahar will need 22-24 mins...coz buses off service from CCK INT to Bulim also only given 20-22 mins regardless of time...
Originally posted by SMB1368T:Btw 974 is coming under Bulim
Nope,its under CCK-BPJ package and 944 is under Bulim.
At best, the travelling time would be similar to taxi, at +/- 10mins, making the trip from end-to-end about 54-56mins. Even so, even if we reduce the express sector traveling time by 12-14mins, only the one from Boon Lay to ITE and Lot One to Westwood would be faster than other public transport options.
Nonetheless, given my many years in Jurong West, and my four years as a student in Westwood Secondary, I must say that during peak hours, there is traffic congestion on Jalan Bahar (both bounds), Boon Lay Way (morning towards lakeside, evening towards Jurong SAFRA) and Pioneer Road North (morning towards AYE, evening towards PIE). The timing on transitink website (bus service enquiry) may not have included traffic congestion into the equation.
Anyway, it’s like that one... peak hour everywhere also jam. The only viable option to avoid the jam is to travel outside peak hours.
Originally posted by SG1131L:At best, the travelling time would be similar to taxi, at +/- 10mins, making the trip from end-to-end about 54-56mins. Even so, even if we reduce the express sector traveling time by 12-14mins, only the one from Boon Lay to ITE and Lot One to Westwood would be faster than other public transport options.
Nonetheless, given my many years in Jurong West, and my four years as a student in Westwood Secondary, I must say that during peak hours, there is traffic congestion on Jalan Bahar (both bounds), Boon Lay Way (morning towards lakeside, evening towards Jurong SAFRA) and Pioneer Road North (morning towards AYE, evening towards PIE). The timing on transitink website (bus service enquiry) may not have included traffic congestion into the equation.
Anyway, it’s like that one... peak hour everywhere also jam. The only viable option to avoid the jam is to travel outside peak hours.
If you take a bus to Boon Lay interchange, there is also congestion outside Boon Lay interchange during peak hour. By skipping Boon Lay interchange, 974 can save some time between Jalan Bahar and Jurong West St 63.
Talking about congestion, this morning I was taking 137 from Bedok North Street 3 to Bedok North MRT. The bus (a Citaro) was already full at the bus stop at Blk 550 (Bedok North St 3). When the bus reached the next stop along Bedok North Ave 1, most passengers at the bus stop couldn't get on. The next 137 was more than 10 minutes away.
It's time for SBS Transit to review the frequency of 137 during peak hour, or to add a short-working trip between Bedok MRT and Bedok North MRT.
Originally posted by autumncs:Talking about congestion, this morning I was taking 137 from Bedok North Street 3 to Bedok North MRT. The bus (a Citaro) was already full at the bus stop at Blk 550 (Bedok North St 3). When the bus reached the next stop along Bedok North Ave 1, most passengers at the bus stop couldn't get on. The next 137 was more than 10 minutes away.
It's time for SBS Transit to review the frequency of 137 during peak hour, or to add a short-working trip between Bedok MRT and Bedok North MRT.
Time has come for 137 to get some DDs. Loading between UBI and Kaki Bukit also can be very high. A few DDs will do well.