Differentiating Voith and ZF gearboxes
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Hi, anyone knows of a definite way to tell is a TIBS bus has Voith or ZF gearboxes, especially on the Habits?
I had observed that ZF gearboxes have a very distinct, high pitch noise when the gears are changing, but Voith gearboxes have a lower-pitched and more muted noise when changing gears.
Thanks -
Yes, ZF gearboxes has a distinct high pitch noise. Also, it has alot of gear change when accelerating. Voith gearboxes changes gear slower, with a longer first gear. Also when braking, Voith gearbox will give out a "whining" sound. With the 60km/h limit, Voith has only 2 gear changes.Originally posted by TIB1186Z:Hi, anyone knows of a definite way to tell is a TIBS bus has Voith or ZF gearboxes, especially on the Habits?
I had observed that ZF gearboxes have a very distinct, high pitch noise when the gears are changing, but Voith gearboxes have a lower-pitched and more muted noise when changing gears.
Thanks -
The current ZF on habits have 4 gears. Earlier model used on the habits and first generation Bendies (838H, 849B-904A, 1061A, 1063U-1146P) will have the second gear coming on slowly.Originally posted by off_service:Yes, ZF gearboxes has a distinct high pitch noise. Also, it has alot of gear change when accelerating. Voith gearboxes changes gear slower, with a longer first gear. Also when braking, Voith gearbox will give out a "whining" sound. With the 60km/h limit, Voith has only 2 gear changes.
And the later ZF model (1148J-1177A, 1198P-1207Y) has a quicker switch to second gear.
The Voiths will sound differently from ZF. The braking effect will be the main contrast. -
Yes, ZF gearboxes tend to have a howling when gears are changed. I will upload a sound clip shortly of a ZF 5HP500 gearbox, somewhat similar. Voith gearboxes tend to hold the gear longer and the whine you hear when it's braking is the integrated retarder at work.Originally posted by off_service:Yes, ZF gearboxes has a distinct high pitch noise. Also, it has alot of gear change when accelerating. Voith gearboxes changes gear slower, with a longer first gear. Also when braking, Voith gearbox will give out a "whining" sound. With the 60km/h limit, Voith has only 2 gear changes. -
As promised, here is the link to an CNG-fueled O405NH with ZF gearbox. Enjoy!
http://www.geocities.com/sbs9834c/Piiiooouurrr2.wav -
Also found that the TIBs buses that uses Voith has automatic bus stop brake.
When the bus stops for about 2 seconds or more, the rear brake engages with a click, and only until the driver releases the brake pedal, the bus will move. Kind of a 'bad' feature from a driver's view, since it slows down the response when needed.
It's similar to the accelerator lock feature for opening and closing of doors, but it's taken further to locking brakes even during the bus is not moving. -
.Originally posted by SBS9818A:Yes, ZF gearboxes tend to have a howling when gears are changed. I will upload a sound clip shortly of a ZF 5HP500 gearbox, somewhat similar. Voith gearboxes tend to hold the gear longer and the whine you hear when it's braking is the integrated retarder at work.
But its still quite difficult to hear for a Bendy, the DAFs have the most distinctive features of a Voith gearbox, the muted gear change and the longer retarder noise when breaking. The retarder noise is probably the most distinctive feature of the DAF, in my opinion, apart from the Setanta Bodywork -
It could be a safety feature from Voith's point of view. Voith-equipped buses tend to be insipid(Mk III, VSO, DAF, etc), because they hold the first gear longer. Exception are N113CRBs and O405s.Originally posted by BluBlur:Also found that the TIBs buses that uses Voith has automatic bus stop brake.
When the bus stops for about 2 seconds or more, the rear brake engages with a click, and only until the driver releases the brake pedal, the bus will move. Kind of a 'bad' feature from a driver's view, since it slows down the response when needed.
It's similar to the accelerator lock feature for opening and closing of doors, but it's taken further to locking brakes even during the bus is not moving. -
Not neccessary...ZF gearboxed Lance 211s and 245s are worse compared to the DAFs!Originally posted by SBS9818A:It could be a safety feature from Voith's point of view. Voith-equipped buses tend to be insipid(Mk III, VSO, DAF, etc), because they hold the first gear longer. Exception are N113CRBs and O405s. -
It feel insipid, but nevertheless good performers. The VSOs have especially long first gears, even when not climbing up on the slightest angle.Originally posted by SBS9818A:It could be a safety feature from Voith's point of view. Voith-equipped buses tend to be insipid(Mk III, VSO, DAF, etc), because they hold the first gear longer. Exception are N113CRBs and O405s.
I like the part where those Voith Habits slows down, revs back to 2nd gear. Can practically feel the turbo that "pushes" the bus suddenly ahead. -
WRONG WRONG WRONG! DAFs are insipid shit! Even Lance 211s and UDs could overtake it along Lentor Avenue! What does that say, then?Originally posted by TIB1186Z:Not neccessary...ZF gearboxed Lance 211s and 245s are worse compared to the DAFs! -
Well, LENTOR AVE is not as long as LORNIE RD. DAFs with some crazy drivers ( they normally are ) are capable of reaching top speed often and leaving the buses behind eating the dust, and the acceleration is also quite smooth to boot. If you arrive in Yishun Interchange btw 0625-0640, you will often see 3 svc852 arriving together within 3 minutes, and over Friday and this week, I had sat on all 3 buses, and u may be interested to know that the first bus is TIB1013P, second is TIB1014L, and the third is TIB719T. The first bus goes slower than a snail, the second goes like a snail, so they meet up after YCK, and the third goes like a normal bus, and often meet up with those two after Khatib MRT. Now, what do u have to say? I dun think 3 days is sumthing one can manage w/o coincidence, and I can take the any of the 3 buses for the rest of the week cos of Funtasia Prep., but Im getting a bit sick of the 3, so Im going to excuse myself early for the next few days so I can catch the wave of DAFs back home.Originally posted by SBS9818A:WRONG WRONG WRONG! DAFs are insipid shit! Even Lance 211s and UDs could overtake it along Lentor Avenue! What does that say, then? -
Like Hao Rui said, you very "shun bian" hor? Poor you, I have so many choices of buses to get home with! I don't like O405s, can always get on a 3-axle VO, 3-axle LO or a Mk IV B10M, maybe if I'm damn lucky I'll get a VSO(once in a blue moon, but I got on SBS 9815H on Sv. 88 before).Originally posted by TIB1186Z:Well, LENTOR AVE is not as long as LORNIE RD. DAFs with some crazy drivers ( they normally are ) are capable of reaching top speed often and leaving the buses behind eating the dust, and the acceleration is also quite smooth to boot. If you arrive in Yishun Interchange btw 0625-0640, you will often see 3 svc852 arriving together within 3 minutes, and over Friday and this week, I had sat on all 3 buses, and u may be interested to know that the first bus is TIB1013P, second is TIB1014L, and the third is TIB719T. The first bus goes slower than a snail, the second goes like a snail, so they meet up after YCK, and the third goes like a normal bus, and often meet up with those two after Khatib MRT. Now, what do u have to say? I dun think 3 days is sumthing one can manage w/o coincidence, and I can take the any of the 3 buses for the rest of the week cos of Funtasia Prep., but Im getting a bit sick of the 3, so Im going to excuse myself early for the next few days so I can catch the wave of DAFs back home. -
Darryl,Originally posted by SBS9818A:As promised, here is the link to an CNG-fueled O405NH with ZF gearbox. Enjoy!
http://www.geocities.com/sbs9834c/Piiiooouurrr2.wav
It sounds more like an O.405, from Sydney, and diesel powered.
Windy.K. 2003. -
ZF first had this feature, called the Neutral at Bus Stop system (NBS). The gearbox goes into neutral when the brake pedal is depressed at standstill after 1 second. The engine revs a bit higher because it is freewheeling, and the gearbox begins a mild high pitched whine. After the brake pedal is released, the gearbox goes into first gear. The change is instantaneous, so there is no need for the driver to pause before hitting the accelerator.Originally posted by BluBlur:Also found that the TIBs buses that uses Voith has automatic bus stop brake.
When the bus stops for about 2 seconds or more, the rear brake engages with a click, and only until the driver releases the brake pedal, the bus will move. Kind of a 'bad' feature from a driver's view, since it slows down the response when needed.
It's similar to the accelerator lock feature for opening and closing of doors, but it's taken further to locking brakes even during the bus is not moving.
The TIBS Habits have an interlock system on the back doors only. Once the doors are closed, the interlock releases the park brake (whch uses only 1/3 of the air supply used for a maxi brake). It has no relation to the accelerator. I am not aware of an NBS-style system for the Voith gearboxes. -
its quite easy to tell whether a habit is voith or ZF. most ZF habits u cna hear the catcall. most voiths habits tend to hold gears longer but yet manage to accelerate quite fast
ZYX -
Quiz: Which two TIBS buses are the earliest ones to be fitted with a Voith?
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Easy. The DAF SB220/Hispano, which are now at CSS. Has a Voith D851.3 gearbox. This is followed by the DAF SB220/Alexander. I don't think it is any of the Hino RKs or Hino AKs, or the Hino HT228Ks or HT238Ks, or the UDs, since the HT's and UD's have 4 speed ZFs, and the AKs and RKs had Allison automatics.Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:Quiz: Which two TIBS buses are the earliest ones to be fitted with a Voith? -
WRONG! haha... the answer is the final two U31SCN NAC's in TIBS... TIB335S and TIB336P.Originally posted by Windy_hates_B10TLs:Easy. The DAF SB220/Hispano, which are now at CSS. Has a Voith D851.3 gearbox. This is followed by the DAF SB220/Alexander. I don't think it is any of the Hino RKs or Hino AKs, or the Hino HT228Ks or HT238Ks, or the UDs, since the HT's and UD's have 4 speed ZFs, and the AKs and RKs had Allison automatics.
TIB335S even used to have a Voith gear control console beside the parking brake lever to the left of the driver even though it was already automatic transmission.
And yes TIB335S and TIB336P had THAT distinctive whistle/whine during braking. And the acceleration was different from the rest of the UD's too.
Much later on TIBS ripped away the Voiths on these two buses and replaced them with the standard ZF 4HP500 instead. That was about a few years before they were withdrawn from service. -
Well! You learn something new everydayOriginally posted by AntiDennisLance:WRONG! haha... the answer is the final two U31SCN NAC's in TIBS... TIB335S and TIB336P.
TIB335S even used to have a Voith gear control console beside the parking brake lever to the left of the driver even though it was already automatic transmission.
And yes TIB335S and TIB336P had THAT distinctive whistle/whine during braking. And the acceleration was different from the rest of the UD's too.
Much later on TIBS ripped away the Voiths on these two buses and replaced them with the standard ZF 4HP500 instead. That was about a few years before they were withdrawn from service.
I stand corrected on that point. What year were these units delivered? -
Between late 1986 to early 1987... the last of the batch of square-headlighted Nissan UD31 NAC's. Pride and joy of Yishun and of service 851 back then. Retired only about two or three years ago as hopelessly neglected, unmaintained derelict husks. Kinda sad.Originally posted by Windy_hates_B10TLs:Well! You learn something new everyday I stand corrected on that point. What year were these units delivered? -
Yes, bus companies tend to ignore their buses when their time is due for retirement. I suppose these units were retired in 2000-2001? Which services did they last serve? And the model is U31SCN.Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:Between late 1986 to early 1987... the last of the batch of square-headlighted Nissan UD31 NAC's. Pride and joy of Yishun and of service 851 back then. Retired only about two or three years ago as hopelessly neglected, unmaintained derelict husks. Kinda sad. -
Yes 2000-2001 period. Mostly they last served in neglected services too - 171, 851, 853, 167, 169 etc etcOriginally posted by SBS9818A:Yes, bus companies tend to ignore their buses when their time is due for retirement. I suppose these units were retired in 2000-2001? Which services did they last serve? And the model is U31SCN. -
hi,
I'm very puzzled that so many respondents in this website knows so much detailed information about Spore buses! They can even differentiate the Habit Buses with Voith and ZF gearboxes!!
How do you all know all these??
I'm a Singapore public bus fan; and I notice the differences through the engines sounds and even minor difference of bus designs.
But perhaps I'm still not observant enough...but how do you all know the names of Voith and ZF etc??? -
Originally posted by SBS3688Y:hi,
I'm very puzzled that so many respondents in this website knows so much detailed information about Spore buses! They can even differentiate the Habit Buses with Voith and ZF gearboxes!!
How do you all know all these??
I'm a Singapore public bus fan; and I notice the differences through the engines sounds and even minor difference of bus designs.
But perhaps I'm still not observant enough...but how do you all know the names of Voith and ZF etc???
Admittedly, it takes a bit of courage and "thick-faced" when doing all these bus related stuff.
The easiest and surest way to know the gear box is to look at the driver's dashboard. Most of the MB0405s, Volvos have the gear-change at the dashboard, and look out for 3 buttons "DNR" arranged horizontally. Besides these buttons there is usually either a circle with ZF inside to say the bus is ZF-ed, and if there is a word Voith in caps, then it is Voith-ed. However, most of SBST MB0405s do not have these symbols because of they have MB gearboxes.
It takes a bit of craze to actually trace the gaer changes when relaxing or studying on the bus, and it sort of becoming natural after some time. For me, to differentiate the gearbox, I normally listen to the first gear change and the retareder.
If the first gear change is sharp and goes like "piiiiooooooooouuur", then it is definitely ZF
If it is muted, then it is Voith or MB, and they can be differentiated by their retarder
If there is a nice whistling sound as the bus decelerates, it is Voith. If there are 3 stages of "whoooooo..." then it is MB for SBST0405s
If there is no distinct sound but you can hear the gear "dropping" back to neutral, then it is ZF
The endangered LO2-Ax have Allisons.
Some of the SBST DM 0405s have Voiths instead of MBs
Hope to be of help