MRT Circle Line Phase 4 and 5 Announced!
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I do agree that MRT station are usually built right under a road, however the orientation of Holland station for CCL puzzle me. The station was designed / orientated diagonally across a busy Holland Ave/Holland Road junction. It was neither aligned along Holland Road nor Holland Ave.Originally posted by ^tamago^:MRT stations can't go below current buildings, especially those on private land.. dealing with the foundations of current buildings are a big problem, and u r not safe if the site needs to be redeveloped and everything dug up again.. thus for developmental control MRT stations are usualy built right under a road or if it is a vacant land it is developed together (The Atrium @ Orchard) or station box isolated (Clarke Quay).. stations are different from tunnels all together, which can go deep below a current building's foundations.. thus it is quite hard to build it under Raffles Town Club.. LTA tries not to acquire land from private land owners unless it is a must..
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If station alignment depicts tunnel/track alignment, the track seems very likely to go under those Holland V shophouses!!!
How would you think the MRT track would go from Farrer to Holland to Buona Vista? Along Farrer Road, Holland Road, North Buona Vista Road? or Along Farrer Road, Holland Road and cut through Holland Drive estate?
Despite much vacant land in nearby Holland V, LTA chose to have it at Holland Ave/Holland Road junction, I interpreted its intention to serve as many commuters. Otherwise the station can always be built along Holland Ave or Holland Road.
As for Buona Vista station, why wouldn't it be built next to the vacant land near current BV station? Rather LTA had chosen to build at the road divider. -
Let's just wait and see what happens, if your predictions come true.
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it is expected that the tunnels will go through Holland Drive Estate direct from Holland station to Buona Vista station.. if u use a ruler and see on a SLA street directory, the tunnels can travel straight out of Holland Village station to reach the junction of North Buona Vista Rd and Commonwealth Ave before turning a little to align with Buona Vista station's orientation.. MRT tunnels can travel straight through the area is because, one, the whole area is state land and the govt have control of what can be built there, two, they know exactly how the foundations of the HDB buildings are and so are able to dig correctly if correct engineering principles are applied, and three, the first blocks of HDB apartments it meets actually resides on a hill which gives the tunnel a safe distance to descend downwards towards Buona Vista station..
How would you think the MRT track would go from Farrer to Holland to Buona Vista? Along Farrer Road, Holland Road, North Buona Vista Road? or Along Farrer Road, Holland Road and cut through Holland Drive estate?
as for Farrer to Holland section, it is expected to cut through from Holland station in the exact orientation until Leedon Rd and align itself somewhat along Leedon Rd before turning under Farrer Court apartments to reach Farrer station.. Farrer station's location is chosen at the lowpoint of its surroundings so its tunnels are as deep as possible to cut through Farrer Court and the private estates in the stretch of land between Holland Rd and Leedon Rd.
Building stations on road dividers is, as i said, developmental control in that underground stations will not be subjected to factors that may disrupt its operations and to save land space.. it is not rare at all in Singapore.. the following stations are built deep and right under the road divider: Bugis, Lavender, Newton, Braddell, HarbourFront, Outram Park, Chinatown, Little India, Farrer Park, Boon Keng, Potong Pasir, Woodleigh, Serangoon, Kovan, Buangkok, Museum, Convention Centre, Millenia, Nicoll Highway, Old Airport Rd, Tanjong Katong, Paya Lebar CCL, MacPherson, Upp Paya Lebar, Bartley, Lor Chuan, Marymount.. the land around Buona Vista is too precious to the govt as it will be used for One North hub.. similar to Paya Lebar, where LTA had to divert traffic and mess up the whole place jus so that they could dig the station box right under Paya Lebar Rd so the land north of Paya Lebar can be redeveloped instead of putting a station there.. and stations that are not under the road divider do not have any built-up areas above them, like Tanjong Pagar (green space), Raffles Place (green space), Dhoby Ghaut (green space), Somerset (Stamford Canal), Orchard (green space).. only Tiong Bahru and Novena (shallowest depth of 11m) have redevelopments coming up right above the station box after the station was built and commissioned..
As for Buona Vista station, why wouldn't it be built next to the vacant land near current BV station? Rather LTA had chosen to build at the road divider. -
no ideas yet, but probable first stage should link a EWL station (most probably Paya Lebar) to Marine Terrace via Parkway Parade.. it may even go to East Coast Park, with a stop probable near Marine Cove (current ECP McDonald's)..!Originally posted by tranquilice:I would like to know your proposal for the Eastern Region line. -
Judging from my travelling patterns (of past years), I doubt CCL would benefit me much.
I stay near HV, and I travel mostly to Jurong (workplace), Clementi, Orchard, ChinaTown, Suntec (during weekend for leisure activities). At times I will go to Toa Payoh to meet up my friends.
At all instances I will travel by buses, except if I were to meet up my friends at City Hall or Tiong Bahru, then I would travel by MRT.
I prefer buses, as to walk to BV station could be up to 10 minutes, and to walk to busstops could be 2 (along Holland Ave), 6 (along Holland Road and along Commonwealth Ave).
Having Holland Station at junction of Holland Ave/Holland Road, it would probably take me 5 minutes.
Judging from my current travelling patterns, there is little motivation for me to use the CCL. I will still take TIBS 106 to Orchard, Suntec, Clementi. I will still prefer to take SBST165 and make transfer to SBST157 at Macritchie to Toa Payoh. And I believe I will still prefer to take SBST165 to Ang Mo Kio or Hougang. I do not go to harbourfront often, even if needed I would still prefer TIBS61.
The only time that I could be travelling on CCL would probably when I am visiting my sister at SengKang, or I am meeting my friends at MRT stations or visiting my friends residing near MRT stations (5 minutes walking time at most).
The proximity to a MRT station is a deciding factor if it would encourage a commuter to travel by bus or by train. Having spoilt by the conveiniences from a good bus network at Holland V, I am afraid I will still stick to my usual bus routines.
And I believe I will still walk (10min) to current BV station, though in future I can walk(5min) to Holland station, and make a transfer at BV. However if Holland station was located along Holland Ave (outside blk 12), I shall take train at Holland Station and make a transfer at BV station.
For the past 2 years, I had make less than 5 trips each to Bishan and Serangoon, and why would I travel to Dhobby Ghaut via CCL, and why would I travel to Tampines via CCL (transfer at Paya Lebar)? Hence I see little benefits CCL had brought to me.
Anyway it's always good to have a MRT station at your doorstep. I would definitely prefer to have it along Holland Ave (outside blk 12). It serves residents and it won't affect the businesses at Holland V. Of course I understand LTA intention, to provide easier transfer for buses for those travelling along Holland ROad. -
You forgot the "favourite" quote of all bus fans: "Network Rationalisation to reduce and wastage of resources".Originally posted by iamgoondu:Judging from my travelling patterns (of past years), I doubt CCL would benefit me much.
I stay near HV, and I travel mostly to Jurong (workplace), Clementi, Orchard, ChinaTown, Suntec (during weekend for leisure activities). At times I will go to Toa Payoh to meet up my friends.
At all instances I will travel by buses, except if I were to meet up my friends at City Hall or Tiong Bahru, then I would travel by MRT.
I prefer buses, as to walk to BV station could be up to 10 minutes, and to walk to busstops could be 2 (along Holland Ave), 6 (along Holland Road and along Commonwealth Ave).
Having Holland Station at junction of Holland Ave/Holland Road, it would probably take me 5 minutes.
Judging from my current travelling patterns, there is little motivation for me to use the CCL. I will still take TIBS 106 to Orchard, Suntec, Clementi. I will still prefer to take SBST165 and make transfer to SBST157 at Macritchie to Toa Payoh. And I believe I will still prefer to take SBST165 to Ang Mo Kio or Hougang. I do not go to harbourfront often, even if needed I would still prefer TIBS61.
The only time that I could be travelling on CCL would probably when I am visiting my sister at SengKang, or I am meeting my friends at MRT stations or visiting my friends residing near MRT stations (5 minutes walking time at most).
The proximity to a MRT station is a deciding factor if it would encourage a commuter to travel by bus or by train. Having spoilt by the conveiniences from a good bus network at Holland V, I am afraid I will still stick to my usual bus routines.
And I believe I will still walk (10min) to current BV station, though in future I can walk(5min) to Holland station, and make a transfer at BV. However if Holland station was located along Holland Ave (outside blk 12), I shall take train at Holland Station and make a transfer at BV station.
For the past 2 years, I had make less than 5 trips each to Bishan and Serangoon, and why would I travel to Dhobby Ghaut via CCL, and why would I travel to Tampines via CCL (transfer at Paya Lebar)? Hence I see little benefits CCL had brought to me.
Anyway it's always good to have a MRT station at your doorstep. I would definitely prefer to have it along Holland Ave (outside blk 12). It serves residents and it won't affect the businesses at Holland V. Of course I understand LTA intention, to provide easier transfer for buses for those travelling along Holland ROad. -
Isn't that TransitLink's and SBST's favourite tagline?Originally posted by off_service:You forgot the "favourite" quote of all bus fans: "Network Rationalisation to reduce and wastage of resources". -
The "favourite" here means opposite.Originally posted by SBS9818A:Isn't that TransitLink's and SBST's favourite tagline? -
I think it is just too soon for me to wipe off the benefits to be derived from CCL.
This afternoon, I had waited for a full 35 minutes for TIBS 106, and still no TIBS106 in sight. Out of frustration and cos rushing for time, I had to take taxi.
From the taxi driver, i was told that there was a heavy traffic jam at Orchard (perhaps Orchard Boulevard), for I am waiting for TIBS106 outside Blk 8.
I should have walked for another 4 minutes to Commonwealth Ave to take SBST 147, 105 to Singapore Polytechnic. If not for the heavvy downpour, on most cases I would rather walk to Commonwealth Ave to take buses.
Having CCL or rather having trains, at least I can make better estimation on my travelling time.
Perhaps the next time, I will travel to Singapore Polytechnic from Holland to Dover via BV.
Do LTA or SBST or TIBS study travelling pattern? They do perhaps, else SBST won't comment that few would walk more than 350m to a MRT station.
Honestly I will walk at most 15 minutes to a MRT station, provided the train provide better alternatives, example if I am travelling from BV to Pasir Ris, Tampineses, Bedok, Boon Lay or Jurong East. -
Yes they do, using the info from the EZ-Link card readers, although they may not be very accurate especially on bus routes serving many students since majority of students (like me) do not scan my card when alighting.Originally posted by iamgoondu:Do LTA or SBST or TIBS study travelling pattern? They do perhaps, else SBST won't comment that few would walk more than 350m to a MRT station. -
There are more things which the card readers might not be able to decipher. Like how much time you are willling to wait for a bus? How much time you are willing to spend on walking to a MRT station? Why would you take buses if MRT can bring you there, similarly why would you take train if buses can bring you to same place?Originally posted by foxtrot1985:Yes they do, using the info from the EZ-Link card readers, although they may not be very accurate especially on bus routes serving many students since majority of students (like me) do not scan my card when alighting. -
iamgoondu :
Hi. I noticed from most of your replies in this forum that u lament/complain about the frequencies of buses, esp TIBS.
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at least better than stabbing in the dark.. at least they got some better info? definitely an improvement, though there's room for improvement =)
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My unhapiness may not necessarily targeted only on TIBS. It just happen that Holland Ave was served by 3 TIBS and 1 SBST services. And I took TIBS services most of the time.Originally posted by service_238:iamgoondu :
Hi. I noticed from most of your replies in this forum that u lament/complain about the frequencies of buses, esp TIBS.
Regarding my wait for TIBS 106 for a full 35 minutes, it will happen to SBST services as well, as all buses are caught in a massive jam in Orchard Road. Hence my concerns are not directed only on TIBS but to LTA and SBST as well. What actions/measures they have if their buses are caught in a jam?
Since the route was amended to Suntec for TIBS 106, I had observed a dramatically increase in waiting time for TIBS 106. Of course I had sympathy with TIBS, I took TIBS 106 on a Saturday morning from Capitol to Holland V, the dual carriage bendy bus at any one time have less than 10 commuters, the bus did not pick many passsenger in Orchard. As a public-listed bus company, shouldn't the company explore routes beyond Suntec? Perhaps to Marine Parade....Imagine duplicate most part of its route with TIBS 77 and SBST111.
I had spent 3 months in Austin, Texas. Though they have few bus routes and the frequency was pretty low, 30 to 45 minutes for each services. I am very satisfied and happy with their services. With a USD15 monthly pass, I had unlimited travels on these buses. All bus stops will indicate the arrival time of all calling bus. And they are very punctual! I need to be at the busstop 2 minutes before the scheduled arrival time. Furthermore, when the buses was packed, the driver will walkie-talkie to their bus companies, and the bus companies will quickly despatch another bus to serve commuters at the downstream...
Unlike in Singapore, when a bus was packed, or when 2 bus buses running on same routes meet at a bus stop, both buses seems to stick together, shouldn't one of the buses speed up and skip stops when no commuters alighting? The bus captain should know that commuters at the downstreams probably have waited a long, long time..The bus companies must really come out with a system to resolve those long waiting time. -
One typical Singaporean characteristic: They follow instructions TOO strictly.
That's why there's no flexibility, unlike other countries.
I'd love to suggest to LTA to put ERP at the Orchard Corridor on weekends. I'm getting sick of the Orchard Rd jam, especially when so many cars want to park at Ngee Ann City and getting there is via one pathetic road called Orchard Turn.
I was on SBS 913 S of Svc 124 @1415 and I adore the driver man. u guys should see him cutting through the jam from somerset rd to orchard turn. Unlike other buses which queue up one behind another and hoping that the bus would move, the driver simply got out of the 'queue', went to the extreme right lane after departing from Somerset MRT bus stop, zoom through the jam and ended up at Orchard Turn in less than 6 min. If the driver were to 'queue' up, it would have taken 2.5 times the journey time. -
Precisely the reason why I avoid Orchard Rd on bus trips, especially on weekends.Originally posted by service_238:One typical Singaporean characteristic: They follow instructions TOO strictly.
That's why there's no flexibility, unlike other countries.
I'd love to suggest to LTA to put ERP at the Orchard Corridor on weekends. I'm getting sick of the Orchard Rd jam, especially when so many cars want to park at Ngee Ann City and getting there is via one pathetic road called Orchard Turn.
I was on SBS 913 S of Svc 124 @1415 and I adore the driver man. u guys should see him cutting through the jam from somerset rd to orchard turn. Unlike other buses which queue up one behind another and hoping that the bus would move, the driver simply got out of the 'queue', went to the extreme right lane after departing from Somerset MRT bus stop, zoom through the jam and ended up at Orchard Turn in less than 6 min. If the driver were to 'queue' up, it would have taken 2.5 times the journey time. -
How can I avoid Orchard Road when the bus comes from Orchard?I was at the downstream!Originally posted by SBS9818A:Precisely the reason why I avoid Orchard Rd on bus trips, especially on weekends. -
Where did you want to go in the first place? Actually, you're quite suay, living in an area subject to the whims and fancy of TIBS and their timetabling. Sv. 106 after amendment is especially prone to delays at town area. Once I was at Bukit Batok Interchange and a timekeeper went out and pasted a poster stating frequencies would be delayed due to the jam, for both Sv. 106 and Sv. 77Originally posted by iamgoondu:How can I avoid Orchard Road when the bus comes from Orchard?I was at the downstream! -
Simple I am travelling to Singapore Polytechnic. And there is only TIBS 106 to bring me there. I am at bus stop along Holland Ave.Originally posted by SBS9818A:Where did you want to go in the first place? Actually, you're quite suay, living in an area subject to the whims and fancy of TIBS and their timetabling. Sv. 106 after amendment is especially prone to delays at town area. Once I was at Bukit Batok Interchange and a timekeeper went out and pasted a poster stating frequencies would be delayed due to the jam, for both Sv. 106 and Sv. 77
How can I avoid Orchard Road? Unless I take SBST buses along Commonwealth Ave.
SV 106 after amendment is especially prone to delays at town area? What you meant by that? I doubt there are much jams at Suntec area. I doubt it's delay, it's probably due to an increase in headways.
I applaud TIBS effort to inform passengers at interchange concerning the delays, how's about those commuters not in interchange??? A simple radio systems should be able to make the trick. -
What SBS9818A meant is that after the rationalisation, there's a higher chance of delays of Svc 106. This is because of its terminal @Marina Centre and with the Orchard Rd delay, Marina Centre Terminal has problems despatching buses. And also due to the jam at Somerset Rd, it causes the rest of the 106 route to have longer headways.Originally posted by iamgoondu:SV 106 after amendment is especially prone to delays at town area? What you meant by that? I doubt there are much jams at Suntec area. I doubt it's delay, it's probably due to an increase in headways.
I think the TIBS timesheet NEVER consider about traffic jam. At least SBST's timesheet has allowance of about 5min. Maybe TIBS assume that their turbo-charged engines can make up for lost time? -
Yes, I think so. And BTW, 106 loops at Suntec, not terminating at Marina Center. It's due to the jams on Orchard Rd and Somerset Rd, such that Bukit Batok cannot dispatch buses since the buses haven't arrived yet!Originally posted by service_238:What SBS9818A meant is that after the rationalisation, there's a higher chance of delays of Svc 106. This is because of its terminal @Marina Centre and with the Orchard Rd delay, Marina Centre Terminal has problems despatching buses. And also due to the jam at Somerset Rd, it causes the rest of the 106 route to have longer headways.
I think the TIBS timesheet NEVER consider about traffic jam. At least SBST's timesheet has allowance of about 5min. Maybe TIBS assume that their turbo-charged engines can make up for lost time? -
TIBS106 terminate at Marina. SBST 111 loops at Suntec. I believe you had mixed up.Originally posted by SBS9818A:Yes, I think so. And BTW, 106 loops at Suntec, not terminating at Marina Center. It's due to the jams on Orchard Rd and Somerset Rd, such that Bukit Batok cannot dispatch buses since the buses haven't arrived yet!
I still feel the longer wait are due to reduce in frequency for TIBS106 after the amendment. -
It's not due to the frequency, it's due to adverse traffic conditions!Originally posted by iamgoondu:TIBS106 terminate at Marina. SBST 111 loops at Suntec. I believe you had mixed up.
I still feel the longer wait are due to reduce in frequency for TIBS106 after the amendment. -
There is a question that will be brought up sonner or later: If the line is called the Circle Line, then why does it terminate at HarbourFront? A ST article years ago once showed that the Circle Line would most probably make its way back to Phase 1. This will be excellent as the line would then have to pass the new yet-to-be-built Downtown @ Marina and this will bode well as they will be able to 'intergrate' the city with its transport system. The following would be the possible 'Phase 6' of the CCL
Circle Line Phase 6
Shenton Way - the line travels along Keppel Rd and the station would possibly be at the Keppel/Anson Rd junc.
Marina Bay - Links with the NSL, this station has been dead for years since its completion while it gets ready to be possibly one of the busiest in the future when Downtown @ Marina is completed.
Marina Park - possibly built on the northwest corner of the present Marina City Park.
Millenium - the line goes back to Suntec City, where the Circle is now finally complete
I would also like to suggest the possible route for the BTL and ERL:
Bukit Timah Line
Nicoll Highway - Links with CCL, built to the right of it, parallel to the CCL.
Lavender - Links with EWL, the line runs along Nicoll Highway, followed by Crawford St
Farrer Park - Links with NEL, the large number of exits lead me to determine that this could be a possible interchange station. I believe there is ample space.
Newton - Links with NSL, possibly built opposite it at the Scotts Rd and Newton Circus.
Whitley - not entirely possible due to space constraints. Although I believe there will be no station in this area, but this station has to be somwhere around here to accomodate for the ERL. (explained later)
Adam - Links with CCL, possibly built in the same spot, or between the Dunearn and Bt Timah Roads.
Old Turf Club - a minor detour in is possible, possibly at Turf Club Rd/Swiss Club Lk junc.
Bukit Timah - possibly built between KTM rail line and Jln Anak Bukit or further on, nearer to Ewart Circus.
Hillview/Dairy Farm - possibly built between Jln Asas and Chestnut Drive along Upp Bt Timah Rd.
From here, I was not sure if the line should terminate at CCK or continue on. I decided that the BTL should stop at CCK as letting it run to Kranji/Woodlands will simply parallel the NSL, which would be a complete waste. Therefore, the final station is
Choa Chu Kang - possibly built under it, somewhat similar to Sengkang.
The line is long but there are not many stations, given the fact that the line is passing through an area where there is not much need for public transport, except for educational institutes, much to the fact pointing to the large number of residents being able to afford a car or two. The line, I believe is to provide a quicker link to complement the west branch of the EWL and provide faster access to the northwest.
However, I quite doubt my predictions as the whole line will be practically running under a canal.
Eastern Region Line
MacPherson - Links with the CCL, the area is a bit cramped but a speech transcript says that MacPherson will be a interchange with the ERL. I doubt it a bit but the position isn't so bad.
Ubi/Kaki Bukit - a station servicing the two industrial estates is possible but there is almost a lack of space unless they are to pull down some blocks.
Bedok Reservoir - at the fringe of it, maybe at the corner of Bedok Resv./Bedok Nth Rd.
Bedok North - maybe built between Temasek Poly and ITE Tampines.
Simei - Links with the EWL. It could be built ala Sengkang station and both lines at this point will be parallel to each other.
From here onwards the line travels down towards East Coast and to the proposed Long Island development. There could be around 5 to 6 stations.
Marina East - At the Fort Rd/ECP junc.
Tanjong Rhu - this station could be built anywhere along Tanjong Rhu Rd, possibly near the bridge which connects Tanjong Rhu to the Indoor Stadium.
Marina Park - Links with the CCL, this station will be the interchange which connects the southern part of the system with the new line. There will be almost no way to connect this line to Raffles Place, City Hall or Chinatown.
Kim Seng - the line passes under Marina Bay, under Merchant and Havelock Rds to Kim Seng Rd/Prom at Great World City.
Tanglin? - a station has to be built somewhere around here. Not only does it free up the Orchard station jam but it is also a halfway point between Kim Seng and the next station.
Whitley - Links to the BTL, this area is already very cramped so I'm not too sure.
Novena - Links to the NSL, the tunnels would have to make an extremely tight turn here. This might be possible.
Boon Keng - Links with the NEL, this is the only link to the NEL but there might be no space to accomodate another station here.
Kallang Way - there is space here to build a station to the left of Circuit Rd Estate, but it may be fighting for space with the KPE.
MacPherson - returns to the station. -
My proposal for Bukit Timah Line (BTL):
BT1 Bukit Panjang: Beside Bukit Panjang LRT station, on the site of the heavy vehicle park
BT2 Hillview: Along Hillview Ave, on the vacant land between the round-about and Elizabeth Dr
BT3 Jurong Kechil: At the junction of Old Jurong Rd and Jln Jurong Kechil, on the side of Bukit Batok Nature Park
BT4 Toh Yi: Along Jln Jurong Kechil, on the vacant land beside Chun Tin Rd and Jln Seh Chuan, opposite Toh Yi estate
BT5 Eng Neo: At the junction of Eng Neo Rd and Dunearn Rd
BT6 Cluny Park: Integrate with Adam station on the CCL
BT7 Newton: Integrate with the NSL
BT8 Little India: Integrate with the NEL
BT9 Bugis: Integrate with the EWL
BT10 Millenia: Terminal station, integrate with the CCL