MRT Circle Line Phase 4 and 5 Announced!
-
they could convert it to a 2 lane street if a viaduct builtOriginally posted by tranquilice:Jurong West St 63 area seems almost impossible for a MRT viaduct or tunnel. The road only has 2 lanes in each direction, the central divider is narrow, and the open spaces beside the road is not big either.
as for tunnel, 4 lane is wide enuf. the question is whether 300m is enuf for the train to dive underground. and there will definitely be height limit at st 64. -
Even if the tunnel is build, it has to go deep under the multi-storey car park so as not to "disturb" the foundation. So I think the tunnel is not very possible.Originally posted by kenmin:they could convert it to a 2 lane street if a viaduct built
as for tunnel, 4 lane is wide enuf. the question is whether 300m is enuf for the train to dive underground. and there will definitely be height limit at st 64.
It's like the Bishan - Braddell tunnel, the entrance of the tunnel has to be far away from Braddell station (ie. near Bishan station), so that the tunnel can pass safely under a HBD block in Toa Payoh North.
The tunnel immediately after Expo station has no problem as there's no building above it. -
the tunnel could go under the road.Originally posted by tranquilice:Even if the tunnel is build, it has to go deep under the multi-storey car park so as not to "disturb" the foundation. So I think the tunnel is not very possible.
It's like the Bishan - Braddell tunnel, the entrance of the tunnel has to be far away from Braddell station (ie. near Bishan station), so that the tunnel can pass safely under a HBD block in Toa Payoh North.
The tunnel immediately after Expo station has no problem as there's no building above it.
-
But still, there may be problems. It will be like a steep descending tunnel bending sharp to the right. LTA also will avoid building MRT tunnels under roads as that will mean necessary road diversion and may result in traffic congestion.Originally posted by kenmin:the tunnel could go under the road. -
if there is not enuf land for the a gradual descend and turn, of cos LTA will not build it. with 300m to spare, i think it's possible?Originally posted by tranquilice:But still, there may be problems. It will be like a steep descending tunnel bending sharp to the right. LTA also will avoid building MRT tunnels under roads as that will mean necessary road diversion and may result in traffic congestion.
dun u noe that most of the tunnels, esp NEL r directly under the road? unless they adopt cut and cover method, road diversion is not necessary. anyway, it's not a major road. diversion wun cause much congestion, i suppose. -
It's true that NEL tunnels are built mainly with Upp Serangoon / Serangoon Rd as a guide. As for EWL, it follows Sims Ave, Upp Changi Rd East, Commonwealth Ave, etc.Originally posted by kenmin:if there is not enuf land for the a gradual descend and turn, of cos LTA will not build it. with 300m to spare, i think it's possible?
dun u noe that most of the tunnels, esp NEL r directly under the road? unless they adopt cut and cover method, road diversion is not necessary. anyway, it's not a major road. diversion wun cause much congestion, i suppose. -
Ok, I realised that I forgot to mention in the previous reply that LTA will avoid building MRT tunnel under roads using cut-and-cover method. Yes, I do know that most of the NEL tunnel is under the road.Originally posted by kenmin:if there is not enuf land for the a gradual descend and turn, of cos LTA will not build it. with 300m to spare, i think it's possible?
dun u noe that most of the tunnels, esp NEL r directly under the road? unless they adopt cut and cover method, road diversion is not necessary. anyway, it's not a major road. diversion wun cause much congestion, i suppose. -
There should be a mrt/lrt station at Great World City.
-
Sorry for daydreaming....
-
I propose this before: Orchard - Outram Park line via Great World City. Noticed that the MRT line between Tiong Bahru and Orchard is a U-shape, so this proposed line can save time from the west to Orchard.Originally posted by disappear:There should be a mrt/lrt station at Great World City. -
bus will still be faster and affordable than rail.
-
Feeder line?Originally posted by tranquilice:I propose this before: Orchard - Outram Park line via Great World City. Noticed that the MRT line between Tiong Bahru and Orchard is a U-shape, so this proposed line can save time from the west to Orchard. -
Most probably LRT line or extension of existing MRT line.Originally posted by SBS9818A:Feeder line? -
LRT would be more feasible and likely. Perhaps a three-car train can be used.Originally posted by tranquilice:Most probably LRT line or extension of existing MRT line. -
faster?! currently the network is still not comprehensive enough. it is still better to take buses for some routes, like redhill to orchard... when more rail lines r built, where the rail routes become more direct, i wonder how many normal bus services can be faster.Originally posted by iamgoondu:bus will still be faster and affordable than rail. -
Yes, LRT. Demand is not that high, in my opinion.Originally posted by SBS9818A:LRT would be more feasible and likely. Perhaps a three-car train can be used. -
Reinstating Sv. 85 would do the trick.Originally posted by tranquilice:Yes, LRT. Demand is not that high, in my opinion. -
However, there is already service 16 between Tiong Bahru and Orchard.Originally posted by SBS9818A:Reinstating Sv. 85 would do the trick. -
I understand that there is free shuttle bus service from Orchard and City Hall to Great World City. So they probably won't think of building any rail link for the time being...i was just daydreaming...
Seriously i don't know why 85 should be removed completely. Because from Orchard to Harbourfront, it doesn't seem to duplicate the NEL at all, does it? Plus, the NEL doesn't stop at Great World City..
Yes there is 16, but the more services there are the less time people have to get frustrated hoping for a bus to come..
Also, bus 24 route from Ang Mo Kio to Paya Lebar is okay now that the Circle line is not up yet, but from Paya Lebar onwards till Changi Airport it duplicates the East West Line exactly!! I wonder, if the East West line is run by SBSTransit, will 24 duplicate the MRT line like that or not... -
The rationale of not building a ORC-OTP link is because the cost of building such a short link does not justify the savings in travel time. Neglecting waiting time before boarding, but including waiting time for transfer at either RFP or NEL, the travel times are as follows:Originally posted by disappear:I understand that there is free shuttle bus service from Orchard and City Hall to Great World City. So they probably won't think of building any rail link for the time being...i was just daydreaming...
Seriously i don't know why 85 should be removed completely. Because from Orchard to Harbourfront, it doesn't seem to duplicate the NEL at all, does it? Plus, the NEL doesn't stop at Great World City..
Yes there is 16, but the more services there are the less time people have to get frustrated hoping for a bus to come..
NSL-EWL: 11-17 mins
NSL-NEL: 11-17.5 mins
ORC-OTP (with 2 stops in between): 7 mins
BUS: 13 mins
Saving just a maximum of 10 minutes at (my) estimated cost of $1-1.2bn (for fully underground) is not worth it. Also, engineering difficulties at OTP with 3 stations interchanging is also another major problem. -
actually, if you have read and seen pictures (i've seen it at NRL - it'll be closed from 31st Mar) about how they built the Bishan-Braddell link, or if you were living there, it's actually cut-and-cover method. the tunnels are under the field in front of Blk 105/108/110 Bishan, then goes between Toa Payoh North Ind Blks 1004/1008, then under the foundations of Blk 206 (which i presume was built after the tunnels), then below the car park road between Blks 107/108/109/110 Toa Payoh North. LTA will build cut-and-cover if it can cos it's cheaper. The tunnels between Little India and Farrer Park, Hougang and Sengkang are built using cut-and-cover. Significantly, the whole stretch of Race Course Road and Buffalo Lane were closed to facilitate cut-and-cover method of building the tunnels. Of course, right after Expo station towards CGA it is cut-and-cover until the turn in the tunnel at Somapah Rd. This is possible since that stretch of land is government reserve site and LTA might as well cut-and-cover for that section to save costs.Originally posted by tranquilice:Even if the tunnel is build, it has to go deep under the multi-storey car park so as not to "disturb" the foundation. So I think the tunnel is not very possible.
It's like the Bishan - Braddell tunnel, the entrance of the tunnel has to be far away from Braddell station (ie. near Bishan station), so that the tunnel can pass safely under a HBD (sic) block in Toa Payoh North.
The tunnel immediately after Expo station has no problem as there's no building above it. -
LTA have to build tunnels under the roads as part of development control. If not, it will be difficult to allow new buildings up above the tunnels and this will lead to waste of land. the way the tunnel is built always follow the shape of a road on top, if you have noticed. construction that causes road diversions are stations that are built under a road and cut-and-cover tunnel building (which is only done when there's low traffic flow on the road). tunnel boring does not require roads to be diverted. if you are thinking why paya lebar road between UPL and BLY stations there's diversion of the whole stretch road when paya lebar rd is not a low traffic flow road, it's because of the building of crossovers to Kim Chuan CCL Depot, which is not simple tunnel boring.Originally posted by tranquilice:But still, there may be problems. It will be like a steep descending tunnel bending sharp to the right. LTA also will avoid building MRT tunnels under roads as that will mean necessary road diversion and may result in traffic congestion.
regarding tunneling west of Boon Lay station, i have done my rough measurements and observations, using mainly the cases of Kallang-Lavender (best) and Redhill-Tiong Bahru. Kembangan-Bedok was not used as the road was elevated above the tunnel, which is unsimilar to our case here.
the distance from the nearer end of a 4.5 metres high elevated station platform to the cut-and-cover tunnel opening is about 400-450 metres, with full descending below ground level by 700 metres. the descend is about 1° for this stretch, which is gentler than the gradient of the underground bored tunnel to the next station. also, noise control guidelines stipulate that the distance between the viaduct and the nearest building, be it school or HDB Apt, is 20 metres. let's say we will build a tunnel right after Boon Lay station, and assuming we will close a certain section of Jurong West Street 63 for the construction of the descending tracks, in BNL's case, the descend can only begin after the viaduct had passed above Jurong West Street 64 to maintain a height restriction of 4.5 metres above this road, and the opening of the tunnel is at the junction of Jurong West Streets 63 and 65, and thus the total section of Jurong West Street 63 to be closed will have to be between Jurong West Streets 64 and 61. Jurong West Street 65 will have to be split into two different road sectors at Jurong West Street 63. Note that none of the car park entrances in the vicinity is located on Jurong West Street 63, but mainly at Jurong West Street 65.
judging from the constraints of the area west of Boon Lay station, i feel it is not feasible to build a tunnel right after Boon Lay station. if we had the viaducts built on Jurong West St 63, we need only to sacrifice 2 lanes, one from each direction. and this meets the minimum requirement of a distance of 20 metres between the viaduct and the nearest building. thus, i expect the descend and tunnelling to start from Pioneer Road North, with the tracks curving southwards while descending along the closed Jurong Rd before descending fully under Jurong Rd. -
Agree with you on the 1st paragraph. Services 65 and 85 ply totally different routes between Orchard and HarbourFront, and SBST want passengers to take service 65 and transfer.Originally posted by disappear:Seriously i don't know why 85 should be removed completely. Because from Orchard to Harbourfront, it doesn't seem to duplicate the NEL at all, does it? Plus, the NEL doesn't stop at Great World City..
Also, bus 24 route from Ang Mo Kio to Paya Lebar is okay now that the Circle line is not up yet, but from Paya Lebar onwards till Changi Airport it duplicates the East West Line exactly!! I wonder, if the East West line is run by SBSTransit, will 24 duplicate the MRT line like that or not...
When the CCL operates, I guess service 24 may be withdrawn. -
Block 206 in Toa Payoh North already existed before the MRT construction. Some residents and shop owners there have to relocate temporary because of this.Originally posted by ^tamago^:actually, if you have read and seen pictures (i've seen it at NRL - it'll be closed from 31st Mar) about how they built the Bishan-Braddell link, or if you were living there, it's actually cut-and-cover method. the tunnels are under the field in front of Blk 105/108/110 Bishan, then goes between Toa Payoh North Ind Blks 1004/1008, then under the foundations of Blk 206 (which i presume was built after the tunnels), then below the car park road between Blks 107/108/109/110 Toa Payoh North. LTA will build cut-and-cover if it can cos it's cheaper. The tunnels between Little India and Farrer Park, Hougang and Sengkang are built using cut-and-cover. Significantly, the whole stretch of Race Course Road and Buffalo Lane were closed to facilitate cut-and-cover method of building the tunnels. Of course, right after Expo station towards CGA it is cut-and-cover until the turn in the tunnel at Somapah Rd. This is possible since that stretch of land is government reserve site and LTA might as well cut-and-cover for that section to save costs. -
Why is there a need for a tunnel after Pioneer Rd North, as viaducts can be build along Upp Jurong Rd.Originally posted by ^tamago^:judging from the constraints of the area west of Boon Lay station, i feel it is not feasible to build a tunnel right after Boon Lay station. if we had the viaducts built on Jurong West St 63, we need only to sacrifice 2 lanes, one from each direction. and this meets the minimum requirement of a distance of 20 metres between the viaduct and the nearest building. thus, i expect the descend and tunnelling to start from Pioneer Road North, with the tracks curving southwards while descending along the closed Jurong Rd before descending fully under Jurong Rd.