Homosexuality is a mental illness.
-
There is only One God
If u read at the other scripture it says different things. There is also a phrase in the bible tat says the satan is the best lier and deceiver, much better than men. U have not really answered the question -
What you should have told your lesbian friend is that her suffering is God's desire for her to have Faith in God. That God loves her. That her homosexuality is allowed by God, for the glory of God in her life. Instead, you made her more miserable by your oblique condemnation through your prayers with her to "change." By your oblique condemnation when you wept with her. When will you put your Faith in God? Unless you yourself did, you can never help another to.Originally posted by klydeer:of course i am blind - blinded at times to the many wonders of God which i cannot see working in my life, His Grace in many a times. How about yourself ? Or is it even when your eyes are dug out - you still insist that you can see like the Pharisee ?
How you swayed with words ! from "condemnation", you go to "speaking out"...whats next ? if you "see" this thread, u are condemning ?
ok. go to the streets or to your "gay friends" and say onto them - "Hey, what you doing is a perversion leh....does not lead to pregnancy...." - i wonder how they would respond ? so that is your love to them ?
The act of homosexuality is forbidden under God's righteousness and commandments because it will cause one to be griefed by it - as how i was given understanding. this is due to the experience of weeping with a friend who is tormented by what she feels - as "unclean" and desired so much to let go but couldnt. it is not for me to do anything about it but to provide words of encouragement and pray with her....for i cannot understand what she is going through. Only God knows, only she herself can make a choice and battle for that choice.
For me, i totally believe in the sanctity of marriage as would Christ advised - between a man and a woman - be it at the emotional, spiritual or physical aspects of it - though have been a difficult journey in the beginning, but now with much happiness and fulfilment. -
Romans 1:18-31 Homosexuality in the NT as spoken by the Apostle Paul
GodÂ’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. -
You refuse God, that is all. There is but one God and you know it, but you refuse it. It is up to you. God still loves you but if you insist on believing in idols, then what is the point? God is there but you refuse. What do you want God to do? Live your life for you? Transform you into God so that you can see and understand God? What exactly is it that you want?Originally posted by stupidissmart:If u read at the other scripture it says different things. There is also a phrase in the bible tat says the satan is the best lier and deceiver, much better than men. U have not really answered the question -
Romans 1:18-31 Homosexuality in the NT as spoken by the Apostle Paul
I have already expected someone to quote tis. Earlier I have also stated wat apostle paul said about women and their veils
1 Corinthians 11
4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.
11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.
However we also see women without head cover go to the church have to really have their head shaven
1 Corinthians 14
33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
1 Timothy 2
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
We still see women able to speak in the church. They should remains absolutely silent. They cannot hold any post tat have authority over men. Why do we see women working as normal and holding positions tat have authority over men now ? Why aren't we following these laws now ? -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
And why did Paul write all that? For you to quote and condemn? For you to judge the sinners? Are you God? You think having read what Paul wrote, you have eaten of the fruit of Good and Evil and are now equal with God?
Romans 1:18-31 Homosexuality in the NT as spoken by the Apostle Paul
[b]GodÂ’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.[/b]
Matthew 7 WEB
1 "Don't judge, so that you won't be judged.
2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you. -
no thanks for your advice.Originally posted by casino_king:What you should have told your lesbian friend is that her suffering is God's desire for her to have Faith in God. That God loves her. That her homosexuality is allowed by God, for the glory of God in her life. Instead, you made her more miserable by your oblique condemnation through your prayers with her to "change." By your oblique condemnation when you wept with her. When will you put your Faith in God? Unless you yourself did, you can never help another to.
i'll rather listen to the Great Counselor. -
And the Great Counselor asked you to condemn her? Blasphemy.Originally posted by klydeer:no thanks for your advice.
i'll rather listen to the Great Counselor. -
CK, you talk like you are a homo, you are so enraged by this thing about us christians judging homos and about us being homophobic etc... you just cannot see the truth that it is not us who are judging, but it is the Holy Spirit that convicts. All I am pointing out is that it is wrong according to Yahweh. I have already clarified my stand, I do not agree that homosexuality is right and to me it is a sin according to Yahweh, yet I do not judge a person who has these feelings, like I said to you earlier, it is between them and God.Originally posted by casino_king:And why did Paul write all that? For you to quote and condemn? For you to judge the sinners? Are you God? You think having read what Paul wrote, you have eaten of the fruit of Good and Evil and are now equal with God?
Matthew 7 WEB
1 "Don't judge, so that you won't be judged.
2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you.
FOR ONCE GET IT INTO YOUR VERY VERY VERY THICK SKULL, WE CHRISTIANS DO NOT JUDGE PEOPLE WHO HAVE A HOMOSEXUAL ORIENTATION, but this does not mean we agree with their lifestyle. -
stick to the topic... if you want to talk about these things start another topic.. regards also, please do not pluck exerps from the bible and fill them with your own understandig without first understandingOriginally posted by stupidissmart:I have already expected someone to quote tis. Earlier I have also stated wat apostle paul said about women and their veils
1 Corinthians 11
4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.
11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.
However we also see women without head cover go to the church have to really have their head shaven
1 Corinthians 14
33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
1 Timothy 2
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
We still see women able to speak in the church. They should remains absolutely silent. They cannot hold any post tat have authority over men. Why do we see women working as normal and holding positions tat have authority over men now ? Why aren't we following these laws now ?
1. to whom was the apostle Paul speaking to
2. the context of the synagogue and the things that go on in them.
3. the cultural context of these verses. -
Tis is part of the topic. Christians neglect all the other laws and rules while surprisingly stick to a few they like. If u felt tat homo is a sin because the bible says so, why don't u feel any indifference when the other sins have been committed. In short, why don't u treat homo the same as u treat people who eat seafood or women who talk in church ?
1. to whom was the apostle Paul speaking to
Paul is speaking to romans in your earlier quoted phrases
2. the context of the synagogue and the things that go on in them.
3. the cultural context of these verses.
To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints
while for mine in corinthians it is
for to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours
Mine seems to be more generic then yours
Then why don't u tell me why is your context special while the context from mine different ? If it is different why do the nuns cover their heads ? Why do the women in the past cover their heads too ? -
By not agreeing with their lifestyle, by speaking out against them, you are judging them. You can say you do not want to be a homo. That is your perogative. You can say tell homosexuals that their lifestyle have certain consequences; one of which is that bigots will judge them.Originally posted by breytonhartge:CK, you talk like you are a homo, you are so enraged by this thing about us christians judging homos and about us being homophobic etc... you just cannot see the truth that it is not us who are judging, but it is the Holy Spirit that convicts. All I am pointing out is that it is wrong according to Yahweh. I have already clarified my stand, I do not agree that homosexuality is right and to me it is a sin according to Yahweh, yet I do not judge a person who has these feelings, like I said to you earlier, it is between them and God.
FOR ONCE GET IT INTO YOUR VERY VERY VERY THICK SKULL, WE CHRISTIANS DO NOT JUDGE PEOPLE WHO HAVE A HOMOSEXUAL ORIENTATION, but this does not mean we agree with their lifestyle.
You have no idea why God allows them to be homosexuals. What do you want God to do to them? God wil similarly have to do that to you.
Matthew 7 WEB
1 "Don't judge, so that you won't be judged.
2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
oh no! then you are also judging me... by not agreeing with my choice of not agreeing with their lifestyle, so likewise, you will be judged.
By not agreeing with their lifestyle, by speaking out against them, you [b]are judging them. You can say you do not want to be a homo. That is your perogative. You can say tell homosexuals that their lifestyle have certain consequences; one of which is that bigots will judge them.
You have no idea why God allows them to be homosexuals. What do you want God to do to them? God wil similarly have to do that to you.
Matthew 7 WEB
1 "Don't judge, so that you won't be judged.
2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you.[/b]
The bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. God does not allow them to be homosexuals, but specifically says that it is a perversion. On this topic, God has already pronounced judgement and it is one that neither you or I can change. So rant and rave all you want to.
God is always judging us as His saints, He will begin the judgement with His people, His church, it has always been that way.
Then contend with this verse 1 Corinthians 6 : 9
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deveived. Neither fornicators, not idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor coveteous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. -
Nope. The Great Counselor didnt ask me to condemn her and dont put words into my mouth.Originally posted by casino_king:And the Great Counselor asked you to condemn her? Blasphemy.
All the while, very few is even talking about condemnation, except you.
___________
Jeremiah 9:3, "And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD." -
Originally posted by casino_king:
do you not know that the saints will judge the world? 1 Cor 6:2.
Matthew 7 WEB
1 "Don't judge, so that you won't be judged.
[b]2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you.[/b] -
1. to whom was the apostle Paul speaking to
Paul is speaking to romans in your earlier quoted phrases
2. the context of the synagogue and the things that go on in them.
3. the cultural context of these verses.
To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints
while for mine in corinthians it is
for to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours
Mine seems to be more generic then yours
Then why don't u tell me why is your context special while the context from mine different ? If it is different why do the nuns cover their heads ? Why do the women in the past cover their heads too ? Their interpretations is also wrong ? -
Then don't condemn her and tell her Jesus does not condemn her either. That Jesus loves her whether she is a homosexual or not. Ask her to put her Faith in God and not let her homosexual inclinations stop her from doing that.Originally posted by klydeer:Nope. The Great Counselor didnt ask me to condemn her and dont put words into my mouth.
All the while, very few is even talking about condemnation, except you.
___________
Jeremiah 9:3, "And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD." -
So finally you admit it don't you? That you are judging them?Originally posted by breytonhartge:do you not know that the saints will judge the world? 1 Cor 6:2.
Yet what is the context of the verse? It is talking about personal conflicts with your neighbour.
1 Corinthians 6 WEB
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against his neighbor, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints?
1 Corinthians 6 WEB
12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are expedient. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be brought under the power of anything.
It is in this context that Paul then went on to "condemn and condemn and condemn..." that it is not "expedient."
Are you willing to tell homosexuals that? That it is not expedient? Are you willing to "judge" them on that basis? That it is in your opinion simply "not expedient?"
Or do you come with fire and brimstone judgement?
When Paul said do you not know that the saints will judge the world? What was he talking about? That Saints will have inherent god like powers to judge? You have totally no understanding. I am not wrong when I say that you are not born again. Full of beliefs, yes. Born again, no. -
You are so near the Kingdom of God.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Paul is speaking to romans in your earlier quoted phrases
To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints
while for mine in corinthians it is
for to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours
Mine seems to be more generic then yours
Then why don't u tell me why is your context special while the context from mine different ? If it is different why do the nuns cover their heads ? Why do the women in the past cover their heads too ? Their interpretations is also wrong ?
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
Why you refuse to enter in I do not understand. -
and what did you just post? judge not that you not be judged? for with the same measure that you judge, you will be judged, in this statement you have judged already, because you are the only one here who is "born again" and has "full understanding".Originally posted by casino_king:You have totally no understanding. I am not wrong when I say that you are not born again. Full of beliefs, yes. Born again, no.
and because you fail to take your own speck out of your own eye, then you are ever much the hypocrite as you say we are, you who are full of beliefs in your own righteousness and understanding.
you have just lost all credibility or did you lose that a long time ago?
and by the way is this the best that you can come up with?? everytime you are confronted with something that smacks you in the face, you either resort to:
1. the other person has no understanding... supposedly only you do... ROFL!
2. the other person is not "born again" and only you are... ROLF even more!
with this, I end my dialogue with you on this topic. God Bless. -
You should end your condemnation of others and not just end your dialogue with me on this topic. I was not judging you. I was simply telling you my opinion that based on your replies, you do not have the understanding of a person born again.Originally posted by breytonhartge:and what did you just post? judge not that you not be judged? for with the same measure that you judge, you will be judged, in this statement you have judged already, because you are the only one here who is "born again" and has "full understanding".
and because you fail to take your own speck out of your own eye, then you are ever much the hypocrite as you say we are, you who are full of beliefs in your own righteousness and understanding.
you have just lost all credibility or did you lose that a long time ago?
and by the way is this the best that you can come up with?? everytime you are confronted with something that smacks you in the face, you either resort to:
1. the other person has no understanding... supposedly only you do... ROFL!
2. the other person is not "born again" and only you are... ROLF even more!
with this, I end my dialogue with you on this topic. God Bless. -
Part in red. I think u are mad.Originally posted by casino_king:What you should have told your lesbian friend is that her suffering is God's desire for her to have Faith in God. That God loves her. That her homosexuality is allowed by God, for the glory of God in her life. Instead, you made her more miserable by your oblique condemnation through your prayers with her to "change." By your oblique condemnation when you wept with her. When will you put your Faith in God? Unless you yourself did, you can never help another to. -
bah....ambiguity again......Originally posted by shade343:what so ambiguous? If you want to know, the truth is all over you. YOu just need to seek it for yourself. -
those who advocate no judgement are making a self-defeating statement, just like those who argue for "there is no absolute truth in this world".
The irony is that they are doing the most condemnation in this forum. -
They only believe in a loving god who let them do what they want.....with no consequences or judgement....Originally posted by Icemoon:those who advocate no judgement are making a self-defeating statement, just like those who argue for "there is no absolute truth in this world".
The irony is that they are doing the most condemnation in this forum.