Homosexuality is a mental illness.
-
The Father already said it is a sin, would Yeshua say any different from GOD? Don't think so.Originally posted by shade343:Who is Paul as compared to Jesus? Is he The Son? -
Well, simply put, should Christians pick and choose the portion of Bible to believe and follow? Just because the latter portion of Scripture were written by Peter, Paul, and a couple of other dudes, it does not invalidate the teachings.Originally posted by shade343:Who is Paul as compared to Jesus? Is he The Son?
Going by what you stated, does your Bible end with the Gospel of John? -
cannot say anything already and now using trinitarian issues to fight?Originally posted by shade343:Then why does the bible still use the term "The father, The son and the holy spirit"?
LOL -
XXX backside as an act of love u consider?Originally posted by shade343:Tell me. Do you consider rape to be an act of love?
u are becoming like CK...homosexuality for the glory of god? LOLOriginally posted by casino_king:What you should have told your lesbian friend is that her suffering is God's desire for her to have Faith in God. That God loves her. That her homosexuality is allowed by God, for the glory of God in her life. Instead, you made her more miserable by your oblique condemnation through your prayers with her to "change." By your oblique condemnation when you wept with her. When will you put your Faith in God? Unless you yourself did, you can never help another to. -
This is very very very funnyOriginally posted by casino_king:Homosexuality is a perversion in the sense that it does not result in offsprings. In ancient times God had to speak out against it in very strong terms. Now with the over population and IVF and advancement in science. How the homosexual wants to live his life, God will not judge. If God does not and you continue to, well, I can only conclude that you think you are God.
That is the ORIGINAL SIN; man trying to be God. Humble yourself; have Faith in God and be Born Again. -
is this a coincidence? the bible either ends with gospel of john or revelations of john.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Going by what you stated, does your Bible end with the Gospel of John?
-
God says it is a sin, Paul reiterates the point and you still don't want to accept? I don't need to find a line that Jesus says it is a sin. God already said it is and still is a sin.
God says women must always be under full submission under male, paul reiterates the point and Christians also don't accept In fact god says tat slavery and cruelty to it is perfectly okay, paul also reiterates it yet christians also conveniently forget about it too U all pick and choose wat u believe lah -
Brey .. better edit your post. He asked about Paul and Jesus. You never answered his question.Originally posted by breytonhartge:The Father already said it is a sin, would Yeshua say any different from GOD? Don't think so.
-
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
I dunno whether it is full submission and in what sense, but Paul also said (in Cor?) that the male must love/take care/respect the female.
God says women must always be under [b]full submission under male, paul reiterates the point and Christians also don't accept In fact god says tat slavery and cruelty to it is perfectly okay, paul also reiterates it yet christians also conveniently forget about it too U all pick and choose wat u believe lah[/b]
I dare say if a male is able to do that, his woman will gladly submit to him, in the bedroom and outside.
-
No....his bible only got things said by Jesus....Originally posted by Chin Eng:Going by what you stated, does your Bible end with the Gospel of John?
others not counted..... -
Start a topic : Homosexuality is a mental illness; all gang up and support the topic starter.... then say but but but.... " I don't condemn them, we christians do not condemn them..." and straightaway after making that statement makes a statement of condemnation: " their own actions condemn them."Originally posted by breytonhartge:we will just have to see when Yeshua comes again. No point debating this any further. I don't condemn them, we christians do not condemn them, their own actions condemn them.
No wonder Yeshua said that you have a log in your eye.
Luke 6 WEB
39 He spoke a parable to them. "Can the blind guide the blind? Won't they both fall into a pit?
40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.
41 Why do you see the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye, but don't consider the beam that is in your own eye?
42 Or how can you tell your brother,'Brother, let me remove the speck of chaff that is in your eye,' when you yourself don't see the beam that is in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye.
43 For there is no good tree that brings forth rotten fruit; nor again a rotten tree that brings forth good fruit.
44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. For people don't gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings out that which is good, and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings out that which is evil, for out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks.
46 "Why do you call me,'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things which I say? -
I dunno whether it is full submission and in what sense, but Paul also said (in Cor?) that the male must love/take care/respect the female.
1 timothy 2
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent -
Verse 41 apply to u most....
U keep on saying u are born again.....I think it's laughable.....Originally posted by casino_king:
Start a topic : Homosexuality is a mental illness; all gang up and support the topic starter.... then say but but but.... " I don't condemn them, we christians do not condemn them..." and straightaway after making that statement makes a statement of condemnation: " their own actions condemn them."
No wonder Yeshua said that you have a log in your eye.
Luke 6 WEB
39 He spoke a parable to them. "Can the blind guide the blind? Won't they both fall into a pit?
40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.
[b]41 Why do you see the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye, but don't consider the beam that is in your own eye?
42 Or how can you tell your brother,'Brother, let me remove the speck of chaff that is in your eye,' when you yourself don't see the beam that is in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye.
43 For there is no good tree that brings forth rotten fruit; nor again a rotten tree that brings forth good fruit.
44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. For people don't gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings out that which is good, and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings out that which is evil, for out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks.
46 "Why do you call me,'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things which I say?
[/b] -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
Two questions.
1 timothy 2
11A woman should learn in quietness and [b]full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent
[/b]
1. What is meant by full submission?
2. Is full submission bad in itself? It is like the military - is full subordination bad by itself? -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
I don't know if you appreciate me cutting in but when you read the Bible, you use the God given brains cells as well as spiritual discernment.
1 timothy 2
11A woman should learn in quietness and [b]full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent
[/b]
In Paul's letters, he differentiates many time his personal preferences and the readers at that time would have understood what and why he said it.
Did he meant it ever to become a part of the 10 commandments? His personal preferences and if you do contrary to his personal preferences you go straight to hlel?
If you read the passage you quoted again, you will see him using the words, "I desire" "I do not."
And he tells you "I am an preacher, an apostle...," that would seem like he is claiming authority or you can say, he is speaking only as a preacher, an apostle, just like the Pope would claim: "I am the Pope, the representative of Christ on Earth."
The Pope tells you not to use condom and contraceptives, you don't? Of course not, he is not God. You have as much right to decide if you want to use condem as he does.
You see, my dear man, you need to be born of the spirit to know what God wants you to do with your life. God will then work with you to fulfill His Will for you in your life. -
Then Paul say for shiok only har?
U mean the Pope also? No authority at all?
Ironically, u who is "born-again" spoke with authority....
I use my god given brain cells to discern and I think u are talking rubbish....Originally posted by casino_king:I don't know if you appreciate me cutting in but when you read the Bible, you use the God given brains cells as well as spiritual discernment.
In Paul's letters, he differentiates many time his personal preferences and the readers at that time would have understood what and why he said it.
Did he meant it ever to become a part of the 10 commandments? His personal preferences and if you do contrary to his personal preferences you go straight to hlel?
If you read the passage you quoted again, you will see him using the words, "I desire" "I do not."
And he tells you "I am an preacher, an apostle...," that would seem like he is claiming authority or you can say, he is speaking only as a preacher, an apostle, just like the Pope would claim: "I am the Pope, the representative of Christ on Earth."
The Pope tells you not to use condom and contraceptives, you don't? Of course not, he is not God. You have as much right to decide if you want to use condem as he does.
You see, my dear man, you need to be born of the spirit to know what God wants you to do with your life. God will then work with you to fulfill His Will for you in your life. -
We appreciate your exchange with SIS.Originally posted by casino_king:I don't know if you appreciate me cutting in but when you read the Bible, you use the God given brains cells as well as spiritual discernment. -
To me, NO.Originally posted by shade343:Tell me. Do you consider rape to be an act of love?
To a rapist, maybe because he can say that it is his way of showing love. Ask some of those convicted of rape against their own wife, they do defend themselves likewise. Just thank God that our judiciary system is righteous and dont buy that kind of crap. So whose interpretation or act of love ? men's or God's ?
but you see, i am asking you a question not to the issue if it is love. But of the issue that you brought up yourself - What Jesus says vs what His disciples or God says. It seems to me as you pointed out, that as long as Jesus did not specifically mention it in the New Testament - it is not a sin.
Or are you changing to the topic of God's nature of Love now ?
Either way - If you accept God's nature of Love - then all the more, you should accept what is written in the OT AND NT - since you are also acknowledging God's most glaring consistency across the whole of Bible - God's Love for All people - isnt it ? Or are we saying that the act of Love is not present in the OT ? If so, ask...i can point out to you.
come on shade, i know you... can be more valiant with talking about an issue based on its original argument.
-
I think he has a serious identity problemOriginally posted by Icemoon:We appreciate your exchange with SIS.
when he talk to SIS, he talk like a Christian
when he talk to Christians, he talk like a non-believer
I think instead of putting CK and shade in non-bible camp, might as well put them in New Age or Gnostics to be more precise.... -
Originally posted by casino_king:
40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.
Start a topic : Homosexuality is a mental illness; all gang up and support the topic starter.... then say but but but.... " I don't condemn them, we christians do not condemn them..." and straightaway after making that statement makes a statement of condemnation: " their own actions condemn them."
No wonder Yeshua said that you have a log in your eye.
Luke 6 WEB
39 He spoke a parable to them. "Can the blind guide the blind? Won't they both fall into a pit?
40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.
[b]41 Why do you see the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye, but don't consider the beam that is in your own eye?
42 Or how can you tell your brother,'Brother, let me remove the speck of chaff that is in your eye,' when you yourself don't see the beam that is in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye.
43 For there is no good tree that brings forth rotten fruit; nor again a rotten tree that brings forth good fruit.
44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. For people don't gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings out that which is good, and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings out that which is evil, for out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks.
46 "Why do you call me,'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things which I say?
[/b]
41 Why do you see the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye, but don't consider the beam that is in your own eye?
45 The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings out that which is good, and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings out that which is evil, for out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks.
46 "Why do you call me,'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things which I say?
well and good that you quote these verses. so now, since you are the only born again amonst us all, tell us:
1. If you are truly Yahweh's/Yeshua's disciple, why are you not like Yahweh or Yeshua? God plainly says that homosexuality is a sin, yet you say otherwise? God says that it is an abomination and the penality for such is death, yet you blaspheme and say that God allows homosexuality for His glory in modern times because of IVF etc? How warped! Do you not know that God is the same yesterday, today and forever? Yeshua says that if you love me KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. Yet you choose not to follow and keep the commandments?
2. And so you say you do not have a beam in your own eye? Are you 100% sure that you are guiltless? Can you stand before Yahweh and say that you are righteous? Who is it that gives you your righteousness? Who's blood cleanses you?
3. Therefore we already know what perversion is in your heart because out of a man's heart the mouth speaks, so you say that homosexuality is acceptable to God?
4. If you truly have understanding and are born again as you claim, how come your eyes are still covered with scales? You call upon the name of the Lord, yet you do not do what Yahweh says? How then can you be born again and have the depth of understanding as you so claim? -
1. What is meant by full submission?
IMO it meant doing watever the guy ask u to. He can make unreasonable requests and women has to follow it2. Is full submission bad in itself? It is like the military - is full subordination bad by itself?
It is not about being bad or not, (to me it is because it meant easy abuse by men as well as stemming the potential of women) it is about it being followed or not. Do we see christian women having roles tat have authority over men now ? Of course and it is actually forbidden according to paul. In the past tis rule is really followed strictly -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
you are correct in this one (at least if my understanding on what you mean is really what you meant)
1 timothy 2
11A woman should learn in quietness and [b]full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent
[/b]
Here, Paul did says (according to Matthew Henry's commentary)
"According to St. Paul, women are not allowed to be public teachers in the church; for teaching is an office of authority. But good women may and ought to teach their children at home the principles of true religion. Also, women must not think themselves excused from learning what is necessary to salvation, though they must not usurp authority"
meaning cannot hold public office of authority in the church.
pls note, that in the verses preceeding this, Paul make it very clear, that this is his own opinion and in nowhere that this is a divine command.
In my humble opinion, here is how we can differentiate (in most cases)
if it is divine command, the apostles will say, "the Lord/God says or commanded"...etc
if its a personal opinion, you will most like find "I urge you, I want, I do not ...etc"
example:
if I put forward a statement: God says, thou shall not murder.
I mean God says (a divine command) that we are not to commit murder.
if I put forth a statement: I don't think eating chow kueh tieow is good.
I mean it is my opinion that eating chow kueh tieow is not good for health, but since its only my opinion, you can choose to ignore if you want to.
but of course, the apostle Paul have a better understanding of the things of God then most of us here, and most of the time, his advise is sound and benefical, but nevertheless, not a divine command. -
If u read 1 corinthians 11 in detail
1Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
...
11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.
As such, tis is no longer his personal opinion. He has already explicitly say tat he is following the examples of christ and as such, it is a divine command -
Originally posted by stupidissmart:
verse 11 and 12 : no issue with this, don't think you have either, alluring to the position of man and woman in the Lord as equal.
If u read 1 corinthians 11 in detail
[b]1Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
...
11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.
As such, tis is no longer his personal opinion. He has already explicitly say tat he is following the examples of christ and as such, it is a divine command[/b]
comes verse 13-16.
yes, it does seems Paul is issueing a divine command, but if this is a divine order, what is he saying when in verse 13, he started off saying "Judge for yourselves"? is he not saying form you own opinion and see you think this is right? or after all this argument he put forth, decide for yourself? if its a divine command from God, there is no such thing as judge for yourselves. -
"Judge for yourselves"? is he not saying form you own opinion and see you think this is right? or after all this argument he put forth, decide for yourself?
I think u r actually playing with words. Thought he mention "judge for yourself", he say tis to show how obvious it is to come to the point tat women must keep their head covered. In verse 16 he had explicitly say tat if anyone is contentious with tis, then then will be no other practise for christians as well as no need of churches. As such u can see how much priority it had placed on tis issue.
From your arguments, it seems tat u r contentious on tis point. In tat case according to paul, christians might as well stop all practices and tear down the church