what happens to non-christians after death
-
if u have to account their intelligence to make a fair judgement
by your definition.... that would be unfair, does it? ie. not teating all the same irregardless of classes and intelligence...Fairness refers to same treatment to all classes of people.
My classes of people refers to religion, races, language, rich, who is your father and other things tat is not relevant to the case. Stupidity and intelligence, if it matters in the case, has to be accounted to be fair. The key word is Relevancy. If it is relevant to the case, it has to be accounted. If it is not, it cannot be accounted. And tat is in the definition of fairness
Where is your illustration ? Wat happen to your equality ?Yup, so a god can say that he is fair regardless of how much you and i complain about it right?
The question is do u think an unfair god is just or not.as in the above case, i think it's similar. one son, on the basis that he is older, is also more responsible, therefore he can handle a brand new phone. the other son, a few years younger and rather careless about his belongings gets a hand-me-done phone..... am i being contradictory and not being fair to my younger son???
In tat case u have a valid relevant reason for your plan and u put them into consideration before deciding on the phone. Then it is fair. U did not reply point to point. I have answer u tat if u have a valid reason to do it then tat will change the whole scenario.
If u tell me u give the phone because u like one of them more, and u practise favourtism by giving everything good to tat one son while u hit the other often for no good reason, then u r not fair. Favourtism is not fair.
Now then tell me how can an unfair person be just ? -
Yes, I think we should start a new thread to discuss on fairness, justice, etc. Thanks TGE.
The choice to believe and obey God is made when we are alive. As to what happens to us after death, most of us admitted that we do not have first hand knowledge of what really happens. -
secular answer: nobody knows.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:There are many interesting discussions (lately) on fairness, justice, etc. Shouldn't a new thread be started to focus on this?
So, what happens to non-christians after death? anyone got the last word on this?
Christian answer: they go to hell.
this is the last word from the basis of a Bible-believing Christian. -
and according to (fill in the blank)-believing holy men... christains end up in hell
beliefs.. beliefs... they lead to.... (fill in the blank, the D word) -
You be surprised at what Islam has to say about that.Originally posted by sillyme:The choice to believe and obey God is made when we are alive. As to what happens to us after death, most of us admitted that we do not have first hand knowledge of what really happens.
Basically Islam is more forgiving. Only the diehard (lol .. is this a pun?) will refuse to acknowledge God when he is dead. -
Like the pharoah in Exodus?Originally posted by Icemoon:You be surprised at what Islam has to say about that.
Basically Islam is more forgiving. Only the diehard (lol .. is this a pun?) will refuse to acknowledge God when he is dead. -
Actually the pharoah did acknowledge God right? Hmm .. just that he chose to defy Him.Originally posted by sillyme:Like the pharoah in Exodus?
I dunno leh.
By the way, the Islamic account is very interesting. I think the Qu'ran even talks about how your soul will be "extracted" from you - it will be through the throat.
-
sure, i have no problem with this statement.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:and according to (fill in the blank)-believing holy men... christains end up in hell
beliefs.. beliefs... they lead to.... (fill in the blank, the D word)
nonethelesss this thread is IN Eternal Hope, hence the Christian reply vs the other threads that had a similar topic. -
Yup. The pharaoh even repented but he made a u-turn eventually. Actually, I read that the author could only explain the pharoah's refusal to submit in spite of the plagues was that God hardened his heart. That, however, is OOTOriginally posted by Icemoon:Actually the pharoah did acknowledge God right? Hmm .. just that he chose to defy Him.
I dunno leh.
By the way, the Islamic account is very interesting. I think the Qu'ran even talks about how your soul will be "extracted" from you - it will be through the throat.
-
Actually I think that God is more than fair.... however I also accept other definitions of "fairness".Originally posted by stupidissmart:The question is do u think an unfair god is just or not.
So you think that God do not have a valid reason to do what He did? I think that just by being God, is reason enough.Originally posted by stupidissmart:In tat case u have a valid relevant reason for your plan and u put them into consideration before deciding on the phone. Then it is fair. U did not reply point to point. I have answer u tat if u have a valid reason to do it then tat will change the whole scenario.
I think fairness and justice are two different concepts. Justice is based on legalism, while fairness is based more on emotions.Originally posted by stupidissmart:If u tell me u give the phone because u like one of them more, and u practise favourtism by giving everything good to tat one son while u hit the other often for no good reason, then u r not fair. Favourtism is not fair.
Now then tell me how can an unfair person be just ? -
Actually I think that God is more than fair.... however I also accept other definitions of "fairness".
Please elaborateSo you think that God do not have a valid reason to do what He did? I think that just by being God, is reason enough.
Reason enough to be as unfair as he want ? Then he is unfair, as being a god is not a relevant reason in tis context. The judge and the defendent r different individuals. Who the judge is or wat the judge do is nothing to do with the sins of the defendent, who is a totally different person.I think fairness and justice are two different concepts. Justice is based on legalism, while fairness is based more on emotions
Fairness is never on emotion. It is impartiality, unprejudice and not biased. Please show evidence why fairness is based on "emotions"
Justice without impartiality, with extreme prejudice and biased is simply act of malice/asasination. It is often associated with terrorism. -
you know how many will go to hell based on current world population?Originally posted by Chin Eng:secular answer: nobody knows.
Christian answer: they go to hell.
this is the last word from the basis of a Bible-believing Christian. -
in other words... got count not count just based on whatever you say lah...Originally posted by stupidissmart:My classes of people refers to religion, races, language, rich, who is your father and other things tat is not relevant to the case. Stupidity and intelligence, if it matters in the case, has to be accounted to be fair. The key word is Relevancy. If it is relevant to the case, it has to be accounted. If it is not, it cannot be accounted. And tat is in the definition of fairness
just want to count, then count all,
if no count, then son't count all,
don't happy happy count this, discount that.... see, you also not fair what
why people intelligence level got count, but religion, races, language, wealth not counted...
you think you got choice which race you born in one meh?
you yourself also not sure what is fair, what is not fair... also based on your own point of view only...still not subjective meh???? -
in other words... got count not count just based on whatever you say lah...
I have already told u. It depend on whether is the factor is relevant or not. If the intelligence is a factor to consider in tis case, then it is relevant. If it does not matter, then intelligence will not become a factor to consider. Is tat so difficult to understand ? The keyword is "relevant". RELEVANT. And tat is from the definition from the dictionary. It is not from me. Looking at the dictionary is subjective ? Then wat is objective ?
just want to count, then count all,
if no count, then son't count all,
don't happy happy count this, discount that.... see, you also not fair what
why people intelligence level got count, but religion, races, language, wealth not counted...
you think you got choice which race you born in one meh?
you yourself also not sure what is fair, what is not fair... also based on your own point of view only...still not subjective meh????
Why don't u face it. In legal system, fairness is crictical. Legal system is in fact moulded to follow the concept of fairness. To argue tat fairness it not important to justice and righteous is like telling me maths is not important to physics. It is a well thought concept tat has survived few thousands years and I think it is impossible to blow it off
Where is your illustration on fairness being unimportant to justice and righteous ? When will such a decision be wise ? I have been challenging u for tis illustration for many times. Where is it ? Aren't u the one tat challenge me for an illustration first and I shown it ? Where is yours ? -
Do you think a kind and loving God will care? If he cares, will He not engage them in an unambiguous manner? If a God that refuses to engage people in an unambiguous manner and willingly send them to hell for eternity, do you thing that He is a kind and loving God? If he is not a kind and loving God what guarantees do you have that He will not send evil people to heaven and holy holy people to hell? So I say.. beliefs without proof and evidence lead to the D word....Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:you know how many will go to hell based on current world population? -
hmmm .... a lot of people out there just simply believe in God - they do not know how to answer your question or mine!Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Do you think a kind and loving God will care? If he cares, will He not engage them in an unambiguous manner? If a God that refuses to engage people in an unambiguous manner and willingly send them to hell for eternity, do you thing that He is a kind and loving God? If he is not a kind and loving God what guarantees do you have that He will not send evil people to heaven and holy holy people to hell? So I say.. beliefs without proof and evidence lead to the D word.... -
haha. if u're saying that God should make Himself known, so that no one will disbelieve him right. hard to argue when God's face to face with you?
well. i think He tried it once, but it didn't work out to well.. cuz He got crucified for that.
-
The one tat cruxified jesus is god. If he wanna continue to preach, how can human stop the omnipotent god ?
-
From what most Christian friends would answer me, it's ultimately about 'free will' and 'choice'.Originally posted by stupidissmart:The one tat cruxified jesus is god. If he wanna continue to preach, how can human stop the omnipotent god ?
Christians believe that God wanted to give humans free will and choice in what they believe. There should be no compulsion or coercion.
Please correct me if I have been wrong about the above view. -
That one is the xtian version lah.Originally posted by stupidissmart:The one tat cruxified jesus is god. If he wanna continue to preach, how can human stop the omnipotent god ?
Read what Islam has to say about Jesus - Allah personally saved Jesus from the crucification. Jesus did not die but went straight to Paradise. Allah promised that Jesus will be back with us. Back when? I leave you to find out.
-
You are right.Originally posted by Spnw07:From what most Christian friends would answer me, it's ultimately about 'free will' and 'choice'.
Christians believe that God wanted to give humans free will and choice in what they believe. There should be no compulsion or coercion.
Please correct me if I have been wrong about the above view. -
Originally posted by Spnw07:From what most Christian friends would answer me, it's ultimately about 'free will' and 'choice'.
That's what we ALL have been told - but it is just bull. Let me put it to you this way: you tell your children they have free will and choice to do what they want. Your children decides to be robber, rapist, rogue, rascal. What do you do? You create Hell for them? You asked somebody's child to die for their sins?
Christians believe that God wanted to give humans free will and choice in what they believe. There should be no compulsion or coercion.
isn't this the same as above?
Please correct me if I have been wrong about the above view.
How could you be wrong when above was told to you?
My question: do you believe what was told to you???? -
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
secular answer: nobody knows.
Christian answer: they go to hell.
this is the last word from the basis of a Bible-believing Christian.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you know how many will go to hell based on current world population? -
I think we have fairly answered the question of the threadstarter. I know there are disagreements. It will be endless to go on about. I don't think we wish to change your viewpoints, we are only here to tell you ours. IF you cannot agree, that's ok.
I will lock this up.