City Harvest Church?
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Charismatic megachurches that preach the prosperity gospel are just plain blasphemous.
Where is the evidence to suggest that prosperity is as important as love and faith? Is pastor kong growing his own empire or God's? If so why did God tell him to setup his church in such a modern and secular manner. Wouldn't this cause more division between the various christian denominations?
Christ has warned us many a time about false prophets descending upon us. It seems to me this is all coming true. Where do megachurch pastors get their doctrines from? The entire city harvest church is following one single pastor whose perspective of christianity may or may not be flawed. Didn't the bible want for us to be united in faith?? -
"And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves."
Mark 11:15 - 17Why is city harvest so business-like when clearly Christ was so against money making in His church?
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Originally posted by youyayu:
this weekend we are having Rev. Kim, wife of David Yonggi Cho. over here in city harvest church this week end. maybe you can come and make a visit.
maybe you will start to say yoido full gospel church is a cult too??
I think yoido full gospel church is a cult
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http://www.rickross.com/groups/yonggichoyoido.html
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Originally posted by gigabyte14:
backgrd ah
my parents
both are taoists
and i find that
why waste time finding something that u cannot see, cannot hear, cannot feel, cannot anything, while u can just depend on urself and do something useful, instead of praying for something u dont even know exists or not
imagine this la
u no money, and u have to work for it, nothing comes if u pray or anything
if money comes, then its pure, pure luck
millionaires get their money by pure hard work, not blessing or whatever shit
u got illness, and of course u take medicine, what u expect, pray and expect yourself to go well?
and when u recover on the next day, u will assume its the work of God and not the medicine u had taken
in school, u dont know the meaning of something, you ask around, not praying and expecting answers
when u are involved in an accident, its your own mistake in calculations on the road, not the old 'God wants u to go, then u will have to go' bullcrap
thats my view la, no offense to the religion, but that is what i believe
as for the accident thing, you people better dont flame me if you have never been involved in car accidents before, cos you dont know how it feels liketo be almost dead
I have had serious accidents before, no worries about that... I know how it feels to be in a near death situation. =) (Won't want to go through that once more) My line of work also have to come across people dying or death... No issues to that...
Well, I can relate to the so call "cannot see, hear, feel" being that Christians are worshipping. But I find that it is definately not a waste of time to seek God....
Too many times are people trying to pursue the things that are temporary and forgotten that there must be something out there that is more worthy of our times.
What about thinking how we're created in the first place? Then why are we create? =)
If we can come to a conclusion on why we're created (without having to put God into the picture) then we can really exclude God altogether. =)
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Originally posted by laoda99:
I think yoido full gospel church is a cult
That statement can lend you in lawsuit my friend... =(Why don't you all refrain from using that term? We are not in a position to say that unless really proven with facts and backups of our own.
Just a gentle reminder to keep your words at bay to prevent all of us from getting involved into a law suit that is un-necessary =)
Thanks bro =)
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Originally posted by bored`:
Charismatic megachurches that preach the prosperity gospel are just plain blasphemous.
Where is the evidence to suggest that prosperity is as important as love and faith? Is pastor kong growing his own empire or God's? If so why did God tell him to setup his church in such a modern and secular manner. Wouldn't this cause more division between the various christian denominations?
Christ has warned us many a time about false prophets descending upon us. It seems to me this is all coming true. Where do megachurch pastors get their doctrines from? The entire city harvest church is following one single pastor whose perspective of christianity may or may not be flawed. Didn't the bible want for us to be united in faith??Church leaders are but mere servants of Christ, appointed to take care of Christ's people. They do not in someway or another become super human, or free from sins. It is important therefore to fix our eyes on the bible teachings instead of following the teachings of a church leader blindly.
Time and again I am reminded of the Bereans in the bible (Acts 17:11), they do not just follow the teachings of Paul blindly, but examine the scriptures to see if they are right.
I reckon that the forum is a good place to put what we were told by the church leaders, and discuss it among ourselves. At least we can have a better view of the sermon that is delievered. By doing so, not only are we examining the truth of a scripture, but also drawing lost souls into the kingdom of God.
The reason why people are defending their churches so defensively is the prideful nature they build up. But that doesn't mean that we can start attacking them personally because they are defensive.
Always speak the truth in Love (Ephesians 4:15) and it is always good to quote scriptures so that we know that it is true. Rather than coming out with justifications that are irrational and controversial, I rather see that the scripture tells us this or say that.
That way, we discuss in Christian style and come to a conclusion in Christian style.
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Originally posted by kager82:
I have had serious accidents before, no worries about that... I know how it feels to be in a near death situation. =) (Won't want to go through that once more) My line of work also have to come across people dying or death... No issues to that...
Well, I can relate to the so call "cannot see, hear, feel" being that Christians are worshipping. But I find that it is definately not a waste of time to seek God....
Too many times are people trying to pursue the things that are temporary and forgotten that there must be something out there that is more worthy of our times.
What about thinking how we're created in the first place? Then why are we create? =)
If we can come to a conclusion on why we're created (without having to put God into the picture) then we can really exclude God altogether. =)
i dunno man
i believe in the theory of darwin
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If such statements lead to lawsuits, then I think there will be hundreds and thousands each year. There are so many online forums and articles condemning commercialised megachurches that I can't even count.
Are these churches in question going to sue every one of them? It might take years to finish suing.
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Originally posted by bored`:
If such statements lead to lawsuits, then I think there will be hundreds and thousands each year. There are so many online forums and articles condemning commercialised megachurches that I can't even count.
Are these churches in question going to sue every one of them? It might take years to finish suing.
ya la ya la
keep quiet will die izzit
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Originally posted by gigabyte14:
i dunno man
i believe in the theory of darwin
Oh~! Darwin Theroy of evolution yes? Hmm... Interesting indeed. Read quite a bit about his theory too... =)
But cells leh? Someone or something must have created it ma =)
Haha... Chicken and egg question again... But no offence, what I'm trying to say is that everything needs a creator and God may have created it to have Darwin's theory work rite?
Just for discussion. What do you think then? =)
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Originally posted by bored`:
If such statements lead to lawsuits, then I think there will be hundreds and thousands each year. There are so many online forums and articles condemning commercialised megachurches that I can't even count.
Are these churches in question going to sue every one of them? It might take years to finish suing.
Agree and disagree...
I'm just suggesting a possibility of facing it... =) Afterall, we don't want to go through the trouble of these unnecessary troubles just because we type something that can be used against us and for us to write a long apology letter just for these right? =)
I'm just concerned, nothing personal =) So we can still talk about "them", but attacks on their operational integrity is a strict no no... We can always talk about doctrines what... =)
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Originally posted by kager82:
Oh~! Darwin Theroy of evolution yes? Hmm... Interesting indeed. Read quite a bit about his theory too... =)
But cells leh? Someone or something must have created it ma =)
Haha... Chicken and egg question again... But no offence, what I'm trying to say is that everything needs a creator and God may have created it to have Darwin's theory work rite?
Just for discussion. What do you think then? =)
lol
i believe in the bacteria evolution
and then to bigger and more complex systems
and then humans
i dun believe in something that just pops out just because of some magic or miracle or something
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Originally posted by gigabyte14:
lol
i believe in the bacteria evolution
and then to bigger and more complex systems
and then humans
i dun believe in something that just pops out just because of some magic or miracle or something
Erm... What I'm suggesting is, there must be someone who created bacteria also right?
I mean, if you look into a cell or bacteria, they also have components like a machine leh...
There must be a designer for all these things to "come into place" right? =)
Its in Darwin's theroy too~
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Jesus on his financial state:
And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Matthew 8:20
Jesus on where the rich men are:
And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
Matthew 11:7-8
Jesus on what his apostles should do:
Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
Matthew 10:9-10
Jesus on what Christians should do:
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Matthew 6:19-21
Jesus on how loving the things of the world will do to Christians:
He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Matthew 13:22
Apostle Paul on his state of being as a Christian:
Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day. 14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
1 Corinthian 4:11-14
Apostle Peter had no money:
Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Act 3:6
Christians should strive for contentment, not riches as warned by Paul:
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
But godliness with contentment is great gain.
For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 3:6-12
Apostle Paul gave up his riches as a Pharisee to be poor for Christ:
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death. -
he love CHC!
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Originally posted by bored`:
Jesus on his financial state:
And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Matthew 8:20
Jesus on where the rich men are:
And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
Matthew 11:7-8
Jesus on what his apostles should do:
Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
Matthew 10:9-10
Jesus on what Christians should do:
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Matthew 6:19-21
Jesus on how loving the things of the world will do to Christians:
He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Matthew 13:22
Apostle Paul on his state of being as a Christian:
Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day. 14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
1 Corinthian 4:11-14
Apostle Peter had no money:
Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Act 3:6
Christians should strive for contentment, not riches as warned by Paul:
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
But godliness with contentment is great gain.
For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 3:6-12
Apostle Paul gave up his riches as a Pharisee to be poor for Christ:
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death.Amen bro! Thats what I call a quote by quote from scripture to scripture with a very defined way of explaining things!
Let us learn from the way he quote scriptures and draw lessons from scriptures instead of telling us who and who, so and so loves CHC, it is not a church that we love and put at priority, but God we love, Jesus who is the head of church... <<< Can anyone quote me a scripture?
=D
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Originally posted by kager82:
Erm... What I'm suggesting is, there must be someone who created bacteria also right?
I mean, if you look into a cell or bacteria, they also have components like a machine leh...
There must be a designer for all these things to "come into place" right? =)
Its in Darwin's theroy too~
aiya
i just dun believe in the church logic la
i dont believe that there is someone at the clouds, that creates everything
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Originally posted by youyayu:
he love CHC!
.......
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Any religion that never brianwash people when they are young or old is good . It should be freedom for all to join if they themselve understand not join because someone market it. If someone is going to dead in bed and u go and ask him join devil will save ur life, he also join.
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Originally posted by gigabyte14:
aiya
i just dun believe in the church logic la
i dont believe that there is someone at the clouds, that creates everything
well. it's usually the case. people don't believe simply because they just don't want to believe. not so much about whether it's logical or not logical, real or not.
i've long given up contesting about logic and evidences.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
well. it's usually the case where people don't believe because they just don't want to believe. not so much about whether it's logical or not logical.
hey, logical = intellectual or not? -
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
hey, logical = intellectual or not?sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. intellect is limited because it is fueled by recorded discoveries.
like, there used to be a time when everyone thought the world was flat, it was intellegent to think that the world was flat, and it was unintellegent to think that the world is round.
until it was discovered that the earth had always been round.
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As human being, prayer to gods is a self believe cannot impose on other people. All people can choose their own choice, prayer is for your own self belive. Don,t talk bad about others, try to praise the good side. This apply in the pratical life. When time come to believe, they will believe. No harm hav a discussion. I pray but i dont talk bad about others believe. There is always a bad apple in a family , groups.