Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Damned before Adan and Eve as they damned by their design.For Jesus is a lying prick.
???design??dont confuse Jesus with God..its 2 different people..but either one doesnt lie..maybe you care to eleaborate more??
r u saying that jesus n God r 2 diff persons in tat they dun co-exist as a trinity but rather as 2 separate persons, like 2 individual gods???
Originally posted by despondent:r u saying that jesus n God r 2 diff persons in tat they dun co-exist as a trinity but rather as 2 separate persons, like 2 individual gods???
i am saying that as according to the bible and what Jesus said..he is the son of God..and as what Yahweh/Jehovah said..this is my son whom i approve of..Jehovah/Yahweh is God while Jesus is god..and yes..they do not co exist in a paganistic trinitarin doctrine..a creature and a creator..but a special relationship between the two of them..that of father and son..
so the father, son n spirit dun form the trinity? God is not a triune being? is tat wad u r saying? so is jesus the same God as God the Father or r they 2 diff gods???
Originally posted by despondent:so the father, son n spirit dun form the trinity? God is not a triune being? is tat wad u r saying? so is jesus the same God as God the Father or r they 2 diff gods???
the trinity is not being taught in the bible..but from mouths of men that deviated from the early christians..never did Jesus claim Godhood..and evidence point clearly to who is God and who is god..so im agreeing with the bible that the father,son and holy spirit does not form the trinity.God is never a trinue being..Jesus is never the creator..the almighty abba father..he can never be..though i believe he died willingly for all humans..The Father God...Yahweh/Jehovah is the true living almighty God..and only to him should humans worship..these are not what i say..but what the bible says..
hmmm...i sense mormon doctrine...i rest my case...God bless!!!
Originally posted by despondent:hmmm...i sense mormon doctrine...i rest my case...God bless!!!
mormon??lol..they are another sect of jokers..seriously..i suggest people should read their bible in their free time and not just rely blindly on whatever religious leaders throw at the masses..knowing God does not require one to be a theologian..
Originally posted by despondent:r u saying that jesus n God r 2 diff persons in tat they dun co-exist as a trinity but rather as 2 separate persons, like 2 individual gods???
They are 3 persons in 1 God and 1 God in 3 persons.
But i think u wun get it unless u believe :D
of cuz i get it...tats y i asked domonkyassu abt his belief...actually the trinity doctrine is sth u cun understand 100% by human logic...it requires some faith...admittingly, its more logical to believe tat they r 3 diff gods...makes more sense to the human mind...
Originally posted by despondent:of cuz i get it...tats y i asked domonkyassu abt his belief...actually the trinity doctrine is sth u cun understand 100% by human logic...it requires some faith...admittingly, its more logical to believe tat they r 3 diff gods...makes more sense to the human mind...
i will agree with trinity if it is a biblical truth..and i will definitely have faith in it if it is taught in the bible..sad to say..its not..so i cant believe something not from the bible..same goes for christmas and easter..
God is not a God of confusion..he tells things explicitly about himself..so too does Jesus explains of himself and of God..it cant be any clearer actually..but now its like finding a black pin in a pool of ink..
Originally posted by despondent:of cuz i get it...tats y i asked domonkyassu abt his belief...actually the trinity doctrine is sth u cun understand 100% by human logic...it requires some faith...admittingly, its more logical to believe tat they r 3 diff gods...makes more sense to the human mind...
Agree wif u somewhat. depends on how u look at it...from the world's perspective or spiritually?
i look at physical things wif logic but i look at God wif faith :)
i feel tat physical things can be used to infer that God is real although some would disagree wif tis view of cuz...certain things abt God can beunderstood using logic although not many, i muz say...
I think it is important to stress that Christians believe in the triune God, while we acknowledge others have different beliefs.
Let's keep this place as somewhere Christians meet and edify each other. Thx.
Originally posted by despondent:i feel tat physical things can be used to infer that God is real although some would disagree wif tis view of cuz...certain things abt God can beunderstood using logic although not many, i muz say...
Yup not many...sad...
Hey guys, lets have a real metaphysical discusion here.
I'm not going to focus on the metaphysical term of God and such, because thats not in the realm of the physical. I'm focusing on the physical aspect of christianity, the bible. Here's my top 5 reasons on why the bible is completely utterly rubbish.
5. If Heaven is eternal, why create the Earth? If you're going to put us here for a little 90 years and then send us to heaven and hell for eternity, why not just put us in heaven in the first place? If you say that Earth is just a test for us for god to judge, Why create the rest of the universe? You could test us without the billions of galaxies out there.
4. You say God is really good. Wrong. Hell is a place where you suffer forever. And ever. Even if you stole a packet of noodles or killed 10 people, you would still go to hell. Thats like the death sentence because you forgot to hand up homework. And the point of punishment is for people to repent, to not make the same mistake again. Instead, you make them suffer for eternity, with no chance of repenting. Thats not punishment, thats cruel torture. By god, who is supposed to be "love"
3. Noah's Ark. By all accounts, it has been calculated that it would take 3 times the volume of all the water on Earth in order to flood the Earth the way the bible describes it. Since water didn't come from space or the ground, it couldn't have happened. Also, for anyone who has taken sec 2 bio, 2 animals could NEVER repopulate the entire Earth. If you learned ecosystems, you would know that it would take 1 ton of grass to support 10 zebras which could only support 2 lions. Now you have 2 zebras and 2 lions on the ship. Who's gonna survive? Neither.
2. Evolution. Lets face it. You're not going to pass O level Bio by writing "God did it".
1. God himself. The bible describes him as "knows everything and sees everything". Well, then why does he get angry when Eve eats the forbidden fruit? He would have known she would have eaten the fruit. But then why didn't he kill the snake or put the fruit somewhere else? Because he didn't know? Because he couldn't do it? Both are the only answers, and yet, both answers prove that he cannot exist.
Oh and don't tell me "god works in mysterious ways..." Cos the right answer is not that, the right answer is "I don't know, lets find out" That phrase has propelled science all this way and lets you read this post on the computer that science created, not god.
It goes all out to garner unyielding support based on the promise of a better future - a 'heaven'. It is uncompromising, it is vicious, and it wants absolute loyalty and blind faith. It discriminates against ALL other peoples, condemning them to hell and suffering in a 'join us or die' fashion. It exploits emotional, psychological and physical vulnerabilities in order to recruit more members.
Now make a guess, am i talking about nazism or christianity?
=D
Originally posted by Superaragon:Hey guys, lets have a real metaphysical discusion here.
I'm not going to focus on the metaphysical term of God and such, because thats not in the realm of the physical. I'm focusing on the physical aspect of christianity, the bible. Here's my top 5 reasons on why the bible is completely utterly rubbish.
5. If Heaven is eternal, why create the Earth? If you're going to put us here for a little 90 years and then send us to heaven and hell for eternity, why not just put us in heaven in the first place? If you say that Earth is just a test for us for god to judge, Why create the rest of the universe? You could test us without the billions of galaxies out there.
4. You say God is really good. Wrong. Hell is a place where you suffer forever. And ever. Even if you stole a packet of noodles or killed 10 people, you would still go to hell. Thats like the death sentence because you forgot to hand up homework. And the point of punishment is for people to repent, to not make the same mistake again. Instead, you make them suffer for eternity, with no chance of repenting. Thats not punishment, thats cruel torture. By god, who is supposed to be "love"
3. Noah's Ark. By all accounts, it has been calculated that it would take 3 times the volume of all the water on Earth in order to flood the Earth the way the bible describes it. Since water didn't come from space or the ground, it couldn't have happened. Also, for anyone who has taken sec 2 bio, 2 animals could NEVER repopulate the entire Earth. If you learned ecosystems, you would know that it would take 1 ton of grass to support 10 zebras which could only support 2 lions. Now you have 2 zebras and 2 lions on the ship. Who's gonna survive? Neither.
2. Evolution. Lets face it. You're not going to pass O level Bio by writing "God did it".
1. God himself. The bible describes him as "knows everything and sees everything". Well, then why does he get angry when Eve eats the forbidden fruit? He would have known she would have eaten the fruit. But then why didn't he kill the snake or put the fruit somewhere else? Because he didn't know? Because he couldn't do it? Both are the only answers, and yet, both answers prove that he cannot exist.
Oh and don't tell me "god works in mysterious ways..." Cos the right answer is not that, the right answer is "I don't know, lets find out" That phrase has propelled science all this way and lets you read this post on the computer that science created, not god.
try to read and understand the bible and then come back to post.
i do not want to go through and argue every point you make because they are really typical questions. also it's been a long time since i posted on eternal hope for i thought it really yields nothing debating in this forum.
Originally posted by HyperionDCZ:It goes all out to garner unyielding support based on the promise of a better future - a 'heaven'. It is uncompromising, it is vicious, and it wants absolute loyalty and blind faith. It discriminates against ALL other peoples, condemning them to hell and suffering in a 'join us or die' fashion. It exploits emotional, psychological and physical vulnerabilities in order to recruit more members.
Now make a guess, am i talking about nazism or christianity?
=D
well i will never worship a God who doesn't judge. Is judgement good? if your idea of a "good" god is some god who regardless of what you did and opens heaven to all. think about this if your boss decides to see every employer equal, he decides to pay you who works harder than the rest the same amount as the one who slacks and deserves to be fired, is that boss still "good"?
well read the bible for yourself who gets to go heaven and what kind of people usually suffers judgement. the meaning of holy and wordly that separates man to God.
Originally posted by xalkyrie:well i will never worship a God who doesn't judge. Is judgement good? if your idea of a "good" god is some god who regardless of what you did and opens heaven to all. think about this if your boss decides to see every employer equal, he decides to pay you who works harder than the rest the same amount as the one who slacks and deserves to be fired, is that boss still "good"?
well read the bible for yourself who gets to go heaven and what kind of people usually suffers judgement. the meaning of holy and wordly that separates man to God.
If god judges, then he is certainly a very inept judge. Just open your eyes and look around you - poverty, disasters, wars all causing miseries and loss of human lives everywhere. I am very sure among the sufferers they must be some pious christians. Why an omni-everything judge causes destructions so indiscriminately. Or is he just want to fast-track those unfortunate, but pious christian to the kingdom of heaven? Even if this is the case, why must he cause so much miseries to all the others when not everybody who suffered at his hands is as godless as I am. Even if the god of Christianity is real, such an evil, tyrannical should not deserve the respect of a rational being.
Originally posted by Ikankering:If god judges, then he is certainly a very inept judge. Just open your eyes and look around you - poverty, disasters, wars all causing miseries and loss of human lives everywhere. I am very sure among the sufferers they must be some pious christians. Why an omni-everything judge causes destructions so indiscriminately. Or is he just want to fast-track those unfortunate, but pious christian to the kingdom of heaven? Even if this is the case, why must he cause so much miseries to all the others when not everybody who suffered at his hands is as godless as I am. Even if the god of Christianity is real, such an evil, tyrannical should not deserve the respect of a rational being.
God is more than love and mercy, the bible also says he is holy. Leviticus 19:2.
He is just, his love was expressed in the gift of his son Jesus as the means of redemption. anyone that rejects this gift rejects being redeem, he will fall under God's judgement. the "widely read" John 3:16
we can't escape the laws that govern our universe. we need such things as gravity, weather and fire to survive. but they can lead to tragedy. read matt 5:45
we are a social race. our lives are intertwined, so we sometimes suffer when the sin or foolishness of others spread trouble. read 1 corinthians 12:26
sin brought brought a curse on the earth and it's people. this curse includes disease ans death. genesis 3:15-24
suffering awakens compassion. jesus told us to care for those who suffer in poverty, we are his partners in helping others. luke 10:33-35
Originally posted by xalkyrie:well i will never worship a God who doesn't judge. Is judgement good? if your idea of a "good" god is some god who regardless of what you did and opens heaven to all. think about this if your boss decides to see every employer equal, he decides to pay you who works harder than the rest the same amount as the one who slacks and deserves to be fired, is that boss still "good"?
well read the bible for yourself who gets to go heaven and what kind of people usually suffers judgement. the meaning of holy and wordly that separates man to God.
don't even try pulling a straw man on me. The point of my post was to show how your almighty religion is uncannily similar to a universally despised man-made political idea. I never commented on ethics or morality
Originally posted by Superaragon:Hey guys, lets have a real metaphysical discusion here.
I'm not going to focus on the metaphysical term of God and such, because thats not in the realm of the physical. I'm focusing on the physical aspect of christianity, the bible. Here's my top 5 reasons on why the bible is completely utterly rubbish.
5. If Heaven is eternal, why create the Earth? If you're going to put us here for a little 90 years and then send us to heaven and hell for eternity, why not just put us in heaven in the first place? If you say that Earth is just a test for us for god to judge, Why create the rest of the universe? You could test us without the billions of galaxies out there.
4. You say God is really good. Wrong. Hell is a place where you suffer forever. And ever. Even if you stole a packet of noodles or killed 10 people, you would still go to hell. Thats like the death sentence because you forgot to hand up homework. And the point of punishment is for people to repent, to not make the same mistake again. Instead, you make them suffer for eternity, with no chance of repenting. Thats not punishment, thats cruel torture. By god, who is supposed to be "love"
3. Noah's Ark. By all accounts, it has been calculated that it would take 3 times the volume of all the water on Earth in order to flood the Earth the way the bible describes it. Since water didn't come from space or the ground, it couldn't have happened. Also, for anyone who has taken sec 2 bio, 2 animals could NEVER repopulate the entire Earth. If you learned ecosystems, you would know that it would take 1 ton of grass to support 10 zebras which could only support 2 lions. Now you have 2 zebras and 2 lions on the ship. Who's gonna survive? Neither.
2. Evolution. Lets face it. You're not going to pass O level Bio by writing "God did it".
1. God himself. The bible describes him as "knows everything and sees everything". Well, then why does he get angry when Eve eats the forbidden fruit? He would have known she would have eaten the fruit. But then why didn't he kill the snake or put the fruit somewhere else? Because he didn't know? Because he couldn't do it? Both are the only answers, and yet, both answers prove that he cannot exist.
Oh and don't tell me "god works in mysterious ways..." Cos the right answer is not that, the right answer is "I don't know, lets find out" That phrase has propelled science all this way and lets you read this post on the computer that science created, not god.
So you are a science buff eh?
So, you must also acknowledge that science has not prove a thing yet that God doesn't exist. The missing link in human evolution is still missing.
Heard of the 'Ardi' find? It's going to rewrite the evolution theory again.
The Christians belief in God is based on faith and trust. What trust?
"God will bless those who bless the Jews and curse those who curse the Jews."
You can destroy the Christians' trust by seeking to destroy the Jews. If anyone succeed in doing that, I think that will be the evidence that the Christians need to convince themselves that God does not exist.
Or you can make use of your science knowledge to continue searching for proof that God does not exist. Do let us know when it's a success.
Originally posted by googoomuck:So you are a science buff eh?
So, you must also acknowledge that science has not prove a thing yet that God doesn't exist. The missing link in human evolution is still missing.
Heard of the 'Ardi' find? It's going to rewrite the evolution theory again.
The Christians belief in God is based on faith and trust. What trust?
"God will bless those who bless the Jews and curse those who curse the Jews."
You can destroy the Christians' trust by seeking to destroy the Jews. If anyone succeed in doing that, I think that will be the evidence that the Christians need to convince themselves that God does not exist.
Or you can make use of your science knowledge to continue searching for proof that God does not exist. Do let us know when it's a success.
'Ardi' will require a relook into the origin of evolution of homosapien but it does not disprove the concept of evolution. It is still consistent with the idea that human beings were evolved from some earlier primitive animals. This is certainly more credible that the the creation myth with explicitly states that evolution of species stoped after the 6-day creation and the earth is only 6000+ years old.
Nobody will attempt to destroy you cherished religion but it cannot stop people deserting your religion. In America(a Xtian nation, you may want to think), more and more young people are turnung away from Christianity. In Europe most people openly profess they do not believe in a personalised god, And you may not aware the former Primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church,1992-2000, Richard Holloway openly described himself as 'After-Religionist'.
By the way if you looking for evidence that god doesnot exist, I am afraid you are going to be disappointed simply because you cannot prove something which does not exist. Just try to prove to me that our national icon the Merlion does not exist.
Originally posted by Ikankering:'Ardi' will require a relook into the origin of evolution of homosapien but it does not disprove the concept of evolution. It is still consistent with the idea that human beings were evolved from some earlier primitive animals. This is certainly more credible that the the creation myth with explicitly states that evolution of species stoped after the 6-day creation and the earth is only 6000+ years old.
Nobody will attempt to destroy you cherished religion but it cannot stop people deserting your religion. In America(a Xtian nation, you may want to think), more and more young people are turnung away from Christianity. In Europe most people openly profess they do not believe in a personalised god, And you may not aware the former Primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church,1992-2000, Richard Holloway openly described himself as 'After-Religionist'.
By the way if you looking for evidence that god doesnot exist, I am afraid you are going to be disappointed simply because you cannot prove something which does not exist. Just try to prove to me that our national icon the Merlion does not exist.
Read Genesis before your claim that earth is only 6000+ years old. In the begining is not 6000 + years ago.
If it cannot be proven that God does not exist, why are you so sure that God does not exist? That's so convinient. So, by simply saying that God doesn't exist exonerates science buffs from searching for evidence?.
Ardi was discovered in the 90s but the discovery could not be hidden any longer. It will rewrite the evolution theory, that's for sure. Continue to find the missing links. Don't give up. The evolution theory still cannot explain the origin of life.
As more prehistoric animals taught to be extinct are discovered today, the evolution theory will also evolve with the new find.
I believe that there's a creator and there's no need for me to look for evidence that God doesn't exist. You should.
Here's the proof. As long as the promise to the Jews is kept, that's the reason to believe that the promise to Christians will also be honoured.