Originally posted by Joolead:used it back to the preacher and you see like funny face.since they believe in their ominpotent GOD.Pastor give $100 to me, expect $3000, $6000 or $10000 and if you give 1000, expect 30000, 60000 or 100000...GOD will bless you..
see what is their reactions...lol
recession ho..the bastard still can get bouns(may be the so call retention of getting more money fron you people's bouns)......power easily money by toking and arrow those pple to do his job.then everyday shake leg and drink kopi....
i agree wif u dat some "pastors" make use of the christian name to make money for themselves which is very wrong. but dun worry... "wat goes around comes around" theory never fails as far as i hav seen. cheat others & u will cheat urself in the end.
but dat doesn't mean good christians should get prosecuted becos of a few bad eggs. like there are good & bad people everywhere. it depends on the individual.
It appears that the discussion has shifted from "going church to become rich" to "going chruch to make the pastor rich". Since have shifted to this platform of being rich, how much 'so-called salary' do you think the senior pastor of a church is entitled to? We must bear in mind that in a protestan environment, the pastor also have a life or family life of his own and that he does need 'money' to maintain his family and lifestyle.
Disclaimer: This is a open discussion and meant to hear the views of many who visit this thread. There is no intention to target this discussion at anyone.
In my personal view, the senior pastor of a church holds great responsibility and should not be treated badly to the extend that he has to suffer in poverty or worry for his family well being that he is not able to concentrate in doing his role as a senior pastor for the church and serving God.
You mean the church actually say that?
Originally posted by Juiyong:It appears that the discussion has shifted from "going church to become rich" to "going chruch to make the pastor rich". Since have shifted to this platform of being rich, how much 'so-called salary' do you think the senior pastor of a church is entitled to? We must bear in mind that in a protestan environment, the pastor also have a life or family life of his own and that he does need 'money' to maintain his family and lifestyle.
Disclaimer: This is a open discussion and meant to hear the views of many who visit this thread. There is no intention to target this discussion at anyone.
In my personal view, the senior pastor of a church holds great responsibility and should not be treated badly to the extend that he has to suffer in poverty or worry for his family well being that he is not able to concentrate in doing his role as a senior pastor for the church and serving God.
yup a every expensive life style in the expense of someone else hard earn money . when money running out or short can make use of the so call god for the believer to pump in more.
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:i agree wif u dat some "pastors" make use of the christian name to make money for themselves which is very wrong. but dun worry... "wat goes around comes around" theory never fails as far as i hav seen. cheat others & u will cheat urself in the end.
but dat doesn't mean good christians should get prosecuted becos of a few bad eggs. like there are good & bad people everywhere. it depends on the individual.
from person view:
christian : to me is like lip service ,say one thing do the other thing and plu some good acting skill.and i don't find that there is any so call good christian.
Originally posted by Juiyong:It appears that the discussion has shifted from "going church to become rich" to "going chruch to make the pastor rich". Since have shifted to this platform of being rich, how much 'so-called salary' do you think the senior pastor of a church is entitled to? We must bear in mind that in a protestan environment, the pastor also have a life or family life of his own and that he does need 'money' to maintain his family and lifestyle.
Disclaimer: This is a open discussion and meant to hear the views of many who visit this thread. There is no intention to target this discussion at anyone.
In my personal view, the senior pastor of a church holds great responsibility and should not be treated badly to the extend that he has to suffer in poverty or worry for his family well being that he is not able to concentrate in doing his role as a senior pastor for the church and serving God.
If serving God whole heartedly is the pastor's agenda then he wud not bother if he is rich or poor. The poor can still can get by the poor's way. One doesn't have to be rich to serve God.
Originally posted by Joolead:from person view:
christian : to me is like lip service ,say one thing do the other thing and plu some good acting skill.and i don't find that there is any so call good christian.
Maybe you haven met good christians yet. If u stick to ur beliefs then u r stereotyping. As i had mentioned, there r good & bad people in every community & religion. Can u tell me dat others(non-christians) don't pay lip-service as well?
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:If serving God whole heartedly is the pastor's agenda then he wud not bother if he is rich or poor. The poor can still can get by the poor's way. One doesn't have to be rich to serve God.
Agree and no denying the fact that if one serves God, one should know that the Lord will provide. My post was more towards non-pastorial staff. That those of us who attend church services and simply just a member of the church - how much in your personal opinion/view should be the salary senior pastor in Singapore given today's standard of living?
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:Maybe you haven met good christians yet. If u stick to ur beliefs then u r stereotyping. As i had mentioned, there r good & bad people in every community & religion. Can u tell me dat others(non-christians) don't pay lip-service as well?
i have met alot of it.. and i am not stereotyping the fact is true and it is out there.
and i think most all are bullshitter...
1)How do you know that after dead you will end up in heaven?
(nobody know ?)
Originally posted by Juiyong:
Agree and no denying the fact that if one serves God, one should know that the Lord will provide. My post was more towards non-pastorial staff. That those of us who attend church services and simply just a member of the church - how much in your personal opinion/view should be the salary senior pastor in Singapore given today's standard of living?
Actually im not exactly sure. but from wat i hav heard..some pastors/priests gets as low as a few hundred a month, less those NCC/CHC & a few other pastorial staff who earns big from their congregation's "compulsory 10% salaries" donations every month which is rubbish.
Originally posted by Joolead:i have met alot of it.. and i am not stereotyping the fact is true and it is out there.
and i think most all are bullshitter...
1)How do you know that after dead you will end up in heaven?
(nobody know ?)
Agreed on ur 1st point, but as i was reiterating, there r good ones too, maybe on the minority. But the focus point should be on the way the religion is, not the actions done by those bad eggs.
I can't tell you at the moment as im still alive. But be it heaven or hell or somewhere else...i believe one reaps wat he sows.
Originally posted by +Sikoyo+:Agreed on ur 1st point, but as i was reiterating, there r good ones too, maybe on the minority. But the focus point should be on the way the religion is, not the actions done by those bad eggs.
I can't tell you at the moment as im still alive. But be it heaven or hell or somewhere else...i believe one reaps wat he sows.
religions sigh used to be but now aday more on the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Originally posted by Joolead:i have met alot of it.. and i am not stereotyping the fact is true and it is out there.
and i think most all are bullshitter...
1)How do you know that after dead you will end up in heaven?
(nobody know ?)
I guess nobody can tell if one's going to Heaven or not... Nobody can even confirm if there is a Heaven to begin with...
But it takes a bigger faith to be convinced that there is no God.
Chruch talks about money too... Yes... How do you think we can build the churche, send mission teams, pay the staffs and maintenance?
But where the money goes to have to be transparent... It has to be able to withstand scrutiny from the public...
Did anywhere in the Bible state that we're getting rich after going church? Please enlighten... =)
Originally posted by kager82:
I guess nobody can tell if one's going to Heaven or not... Nobody can even confirm if there is a Heaven to begin with...But it takes a bigger faith to be convinced that there is no God.
Chruch talks about money too... Yes... How do you think we can build the churche, send mission teams, pay the staffs and maintenance?
But where the money goes to have to be transparent... It has to be able to withstand scrutiny from the public...
Did anywhere in the Bible state that we're getting rich after going church? Please enlighten... =)
the bible says this though:
2 You will eat the fruit of your labor;
blessings and prosperity will be yours.
3 Your wife will be like a fruitful vine
within your house;
your sons will be like olive shoots
around your table.
4 Thus is the man blessed
who fears the LORD.
5 May the LORD bless you from Zion
all the days of your life;
may you see the prosperity of Jerusalem,
6 and may you live to see your children's children.
Peace be upon Israel.
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:the bible says this though:
Psalm 128
A song of ascents.
1 Blessed are all who fear the LORD,
who walk in his ways.2 You will eat the fruit of your labor;
blessings and prosperity will be yours.3 Your wife will be like a fruitful vine
within your house;
your sons will be like olive shoots
around your table.4 Thus is the man blessed
who fears the LORD.5 May the LORD bless you from Zion
all the days of your life;
may you see the prosperity of Jerusalem,6 and may you live to see your children's children.
Peace be upon Israel.rich or poor, God has already decided. some good christians die horrible deaths too. but i believe at the last day, we will all get our reward accordingly
Amen on the your comment that states God has already decided...
But seek first His Kingdom and His Righteousness, and all these things shall be given to you as well. (Matthew 6:33)
Originally posted by kager82:
Amen on the your comment that states God has already decided...But seek first His Kingdom and His Righteousness, and all these things shall be given to you as well. (Matthew 6:33)
i think the principle is this: God has given us resources, some 1 talent, some 5 talents, some 10 talents.
but what are you doing with these? if you're using it wisely for God, God will bless you with more. if you're using it only for yourself, then God will take it away.
i believe these pastors they did God's work, and God just simply bless them. it just stinks a little of envy and ignorance to make a claim of, "Oh, they are people of the cloth, they should not have so much money.. etc etc".
if God thinks they deserve it, then who am I to say they don't. if God suddenly one day make them poor, then so be it.God is the judge, not any of us.
example: Father Kang.
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:i think the principle is this: God has given us resources, some 1 talent, some 5 talents, some 10 talents.
but what are you doing with these? if you're using it wisely for God, God will bless you with more. if you're using it only for yourself, then God will take it away.
i believe these pastors they did God's work, and God just simply bless them. it just stinks a little of envy and ignorance to make a claim of, "Oh, they are people of the cloth, they should not have so much money.. etc etc".
if God thinks they deserve it, then who am I to say they don't. if God suddenly one day make them poor, then so be it.God is the judge, not any of us.
example: Father Kang.
How do we know if God thinks they deserve it? not that I am against them having lots of money... But the key is whether they took more than they required or not...
But Godliness with Contentment is great gain... (1 Timothy 6:6)
i shall put a donation box dere... pls donate generously..
Originally posted by Aang:i shall put a donation box dere... pls donate generously..
Donate to?
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:i think the principle is this: God has given us resources, some 1 talent, some 5 talents, some 10 talents.
but what are you doing with these? if you're using it wisely for God, God will bless you with more. if you're using it only for yourself, then God will take it away.
i believe these pastors they did God's work, and God just simply bless them. it just stinks a little of envy and ignorance to make a claim of, "Oh, they are people of the cloth, they should not have so much money.. etc etc".
if God thinks they deserve it, then who am I to say they don't. if God suddenly one day make them poor, then so be it.God is the judge, not any of us.
example: Father Kang.
the congregation is also responsible if they "over-pamper" their pastor
Originally posted by laoda99:the congregation is also responsible if they "over-pamper" their pastor
That I have to agree with...
A church leader is also a member who is serving... It doesn't gave him any rights more than what is given to him by God...
Originally posted by kager82:How do we know if God thinks they deserve it? not that I am against them having lots of money... But the key is whether they took more than they required or not...
But Godliness with Contentment is great gain... (1 Timothy 6:6)
I'm sure God knows and will act accordingly. Do you believe that he is righteous?
Originally posted by laoda99:the congregation is also responsible if they "over-pamper" their pastor
that's why i said, it's a question of mathematics. the congregation isn't giving more than what they are supposed to (it depends again), if everyone is just obeying God and giving a tenth, it comes down to the size of the church.
so how does one "pamper" appropriately? if the church is big, don't give 10%, give 2%?
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
so how does one "pamper" appropriately?
"pamper" appropriately=not having 500,000 salary, not having more than one car (somemore BMW), not having a private jet and still want to upgrade to a newer one. These are absurb!!!!!!!
Originally posted by laoda99:
"pamper" appropriately=not having 500,000 salary, not having more than one car (somemore BMW), not having a private jet and still want to upgrade to a newer one. These are absurb!!!!!!!
to do that, means everyone has to give lesser isn't it. but God says give a tenth.
so how does one give 10% without "over pampering" the pastor?
should the church should reduce its population (which is self-defeating, because churches should grow)?