what happen to kong hee dishonesty case?
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Imagine its all related. lol That's gonna be news.
Related to what?
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Originally posted by charlize:
Related to what?
Related to Kong Hee and stuff. lol. Imagine the biggest scandal of them all. Even involving the Minister of Defence. LOL k k.. i am now just simply drawing conclusions.
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Originally posted by Honeybunz:
he go CPIB meh? I thought that one only for civil servant.
everyone under singapore's sun suspected of corruption......lao lee send to cpib...the only place........not ISD or CID or changi bungalow
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Originally posted by BadzMaro:
Related to Kong Hee and stuff. lol. Imagine the biggest scandal of them all. Even involving the Minister of Defence. LOL k k.. i am now just simply drawing conclusions.
I tot i read somewhere kong hee fat choo stepped down and the case swa swa under the bridge? no? -
Originally posted by 4sg:
I tot i read somewhere kong hee fat choo stepped down and the case swa swa under the bridge? no?I dunno also. Patience my young padawan... guess we just have to wait and see. In the meantime....
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strange no news of CHC case.................
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Maybe God is on his side. hehehe
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This is my first contribution - and certainly not my last - so I try to keep it short.
During a shopping spree in Suntec, I ended up into the CHC service last Saturday. Shocked and stunned!!! You gotta be kidding me??? A pentacostal show in Singapore???
I had to find out more so I started some digging and eventually landed here in this blog...Shocked and stunned!!! Walao!!! So funny!!!
Frankly I do not give a rats rear-end where people spend their money. 4D or CHC - I could care less.
However, I am intrigued. How is a pentacostal church able to set foot in Singapore?
Historically, I can understand this happening in poor countries like Africa, or the rural parts of the US (Bible Belt area) but in Singapore???Some of the youtubes I have been watching this weekend??? Poor must give - Unemployed must give - pensioners must give - ...til tears are running from eyes???
IS THIS FOR REAL? WHERE IS THE HIDDEN CAMERA? DO SINGAPOREANS BUY THIS STUFF?
About me:
I am a Christian - Born in the US of Chinese parents (funny combination - I know).
Unlike Kong Hee, a computer science graduate who bought his degree online "through distant learning", I have a genuine PhD in theology.Being a Christian for me means to support the poor and needy. Short and sweet. It has nothing to do with giving money to a Church who spends little or nothing on charity (7% per their own Annual report of 2009).
My report from Saturday's service:
"The Church is an ARMY". We must all stand united to FIGHT for our faith?
Last weekend, for 1,5 hours, Kong Hee ranted about the structure of the church, twisting the verses in his usual style, to prepare the members for what? Why is it important for the CHC Christians to understand the organization? Why do CHC members need to be told that it is important not to critizise the leaders? Have there been complaints? For 1,5 hours Kong Hee referred to AGM's, voting, targets,...to conclude that CHC is not a business? (KH words - not mine)
As usual, it all leads to the same:
God asks to "Build the Body of Christ"
The drama team explains "CHC is a body"
The logical conclusion???: "The members must be committed to build CHC"
How to build?:by showing commitment...
1. Recruiting new members - "please bring in your family and friends..."
2. Mentor members - "please stop thinking and swallow what we teach you"
3. Deploy members - "please spend many hours working for CHC free of charge"
and last but not least...
4. Consistently Pledge - Tithe - OfferSome additional things that made me smile, and by no means I am trying to be complete:
Kong Hee's proof texting:1. KH mentions a verse but it is not in the study guide - Oops, somebody will get a bollocking
2. KH quotes 1 Cor. 14:33
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.KH translates into: Thou shall be quiet during the AGM's. Everybody is allowed to speak as long as it is in line with what the leadership wants as we must all stand united.
In 1 Cor. Paul is addressing the immorality in the church in Corinth.
In the verses right before verse 33, Paul tells the Corinthians not to speak in tongues (speak a different language) and if so, only 2 or 3 at the same time, and only if interpreter presentIn the verse 34, Paul tells the women to keep silent in church...
A few minutes later, the whole room is babbling in tongues as if there is no tomorrow, and Miss Kong Hee gets to praise her husband...
How can any self-respecting Christian, not notice that verse 33 was nicely plucked out of the pack.
To prove what point??? Where is Christ in all this?
3. KH reference to: "Pastor must manage his own household well"
So what about these youtubes on Miss Kong Hee? Are these all fakes? Or are you going to tell me that she is doing church work in her underwear???Anyways - more next time.
JamesT
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Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
This is my first contribution - and certainly not my last - so I try to keep it short.
During a shopping spree in Suntec, I ended up into the CHC service last Saturday. Shocked and stunned!!! You gotta be kidding me??? A pentacostal show in Singapore???
I had to find out more so I started some digging and eventually landed here in this blog...Shocked and stunned!!! Walao!!! So funny!!!
Frankly I do not give a rats rear-end where people spend their money. 4D or CHC - I could care less.
However, I am intrigued. How is a pentacostal church able to set foot in Singapore?
Historically, I can understand this happening in poor countries like Africa, or the rural parts of the US (Bible Belt area) but in Singapore???Some of the youtubes I have been watching this weekend??? Poor must give - Unemployed must give - pensioners must give - ...til tears are running from eyes???
IS THIS FOR REAL? WHERE IS THE HIDDEN CAMERA? DO SINGAPOREANS BUY THIS STUFF?
About me:
I am a Christian - Born in the US of Chinese parents (funny combination - I know).
Unlike Kong Hee, a computer science graduate who bought his degree online "through distant learning", I have a genuine PhD in theology.Being a Christian for me means to support the poor and needy. Short and sweet. It has nothing to do with giving money to a Church who spends little or nothing on charity (7% per their own Annual report of 2009).
My report from Saturday's service:
"The Church is an ARMY". We must all stand united to FIGHT for our faith?
Last weekend, for 1,5 hours, Kong Hee ranted about the structure of the church, twisting the verses in his usual style, to prepare the members for what? Why is it important for the CHC Christians to understand the organization? Why do CHC members need to be told that it is important not to critizise the leaders? Have there been complaints? For 1,5 hours Kong Hee referred to AGM's, voting, targets,...to conclude that CHC is not a business? (KH words - not mine)
As usual, it all leads to the same:
God asks to "Build the Body of Christ"
The drama team explains "CHC is a body"
The logical conclusion???: "The members must be committed to build CHC"
How to build?:by showing commitment...
1. Recruiting new members - "please bring in your family and friends..."
2. Mentor members - "please stop thinking and swallow what we teach you"
3. Deploy members - "please spend many hours working for CHC free of charge"
and last but not least...
4. Consistently Pledge - Tithe - OfferSome additional things that made me smile, and by no means I am trying to be complete:
Kong Hee's proof texting:1. KH mentions a verse but it is not in the study guide - Oops, somebody will get a bollocking
2. KH quotes 1 Cor. 14:33
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.KH translates into: Thou shall be quiet during the AGM's. Everybody is allowed to speak as long as it is in line with what the leadership wants as we must all stand united.
In 1 Cor. Paul is addressing the immorality in the church in Corinth.
In the verses right before verse 33, Paul tells the Corinthians not to speak in tongues (speak a different language) and if so, only 2 or 3 at the same time, and only if interpreter presentIn the verse 34, Paul tells the women to keep silent in church...
A few minutes later, the whole room is babbling in tongues as if there is no tomorrow, and Miss Kong Hee gets to praise her husband...
How can any self-respecting Christian, not notice that verse 33 was nicely plucked out of the pack.
To prove what point??? Where is Christ in all this?
3. KH reference to: "Pastor must manage his own household well"
So what about these youtubes on Miss Kong Hee? Are these all fakes? Or are you going to tell me that she is doing church work in her underwear???Anyways - more next time.
JamesT
Thanks James for sharing with us what you saw and heard at CHC. I think many churches today (more so the mega-churches) are being run like business corporations, and many things being practised are lacking in Scriptural support.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Thanks James for sharing with us what you saw and heard at CHC. I think many churches today (more so the mega-churches) are being run like business corporations, and many things being practised are lacking in Scriptural support.
The way with Christ is a spiritual one... no I do not mean the speaking in tongue rubbish.
The fact any church should be self sustainable.... being profitable is a sign of greed....
Whatever happened to the term "as poor as a church mouse".... the mouse has evolved into mega church rat in the rat race...
Glory to the Almighty, alone....
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Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
This is my first contribution - and certainly not my last - so I try to keep it short.
During a shopping spree in Suntec, I ended up into the CHC service last Saturday. Shocked and stunned!!! You gotta be kidding me??? A pentacostal show in Singapore???
I had to find out more so I started some digging and eventually landed here in this blog...Shocked and stunned!!! Walao!!! So funny!!!
Frankly I do not give a rats rear-end where people spend their money. 4D or CHC - I could care less.
However, I am intrigued. How is a pentacostal church able to set foot in Singapore?
Historically, I can understand this happening in poor countries like Africa, or the rural parts of the US (Bible Belt area) but in Singapore???Some of the youtubes I have been watching this weekend??? Poor must give - Unemployed must give - pensioners must give - ...til tears are running from eyes???
IS THIS FOR REAL? WHERE IS THE HIDDEN CAMERA? DO SINGAPOREANS BUY THIS STUFF?
About me:
I am a Christian - Born in the US of Chinese parents (funny combination - I know).
Unlike Kong Hee, a computer science graduate who bought his degree online "through distant learning", I have a genuine PhD in theology.Being a Christian for me means to support the poor and needy. Short and sweet. It has nothing to do with giving money to a Church who spends little or nothing on charity (7% per their own Annual report of 2009).
My report from Saturday's service:
"The Church is an ARMY". We must all stand united to FIGHT for our faith?
Last weekend, for 1,5 hours, Kong Hee ranted about the structure of the church, twisting the verses in his usual style, to prepare the members for what? Why is it important for the CHC Christians to understand the organization? Why do CHC members need to be told that it is important not to critizise the leaders? Have there been complaints? For 1,5 hours Kong Hee referred to AGM's, voting, targets,...to conclude that CHC is not a business? (KH words - not mine)
As usual, it all leads to the same:
God asks to "Build the Body of Christ"
The drama team explains "CHC is a body"
The logical conclusion???: "The members must be committed to build CHC"
How to build?:by showing commitment...
1. Recruiting new members - "please bring in your family and friends..."
2. Mentor members - "please stop thinking and swallow what we teach you"
3. Deploy members - "please spend many hours working for CHC free of charge"
and last but not least...
4. Consistently Pledge - Tithe - OfferSome additional things that made me smile, and by no means I am trying to be complete:
Kong Hee's proof texting:1. KH mentions a verse but it is not in the study guide - Oops, somebody will get a bollocking
2. KH quotes 1 Cor. 14:33
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.KH translates into: Thou shall be quiet during the AGM's. Everybody is allowed to speak as long as it is in line with what the leadership wants as we must all stand united.
In 1 Cor. Paul is addressing the immorality in the church in Corinth.
In the verses right before verse 33, Paul tells the Corinthians not to speak in tongues (speak a different language) and if so, only 2 or 3 at the same time, and only if interpreter presentIn the verse 34, Paul tells the women to keep silent in church...
A few minutes later, the whole room is babbling in tongues as if there is no tomorrow, and Miss Kong Hee gets to praise her husband...
How can any self-respecting Christian, not notice that verse 33 was nicely plucked out of the pack.
To prove what point??? Where is Christ in all this?
3. KH reference to: "Pastor must manage his own household well"
So what about these youtubes on Miss Kong Hee? Are these all fakes? Or are you going to tell me that she is doing church work in her underwear???Anyways - more next time.
JamesT
The core of his preaching is of a prosperity one unfortunately.
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Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
This is my first contribution - and certainly not my last - so I try to keep it short.
During a shopping spree in Suntec, I ended up into the CHC service last Saturday. Shocked and stunned!!! You gotta be kidding me??? A pentacostal show in Singapore???
I had to find out more so I started some digging and eventually landed here in this blog...Shocked and stunned!!! Walao!!! So funny!!!
Frankly I do not give a rats rear-end where people spend their money. 4D or CHC - I could care less.
However, I am intrigued. How is a pentacostal church able to set foot in Singapore?
Historically, I can understand this happening in poor countries like Africa, or the rural parts of the US (Bible Belt area) but in Singapore???Some of the youtubes I have been watching this weekend??? Poor must give - Unemployed must give - pensioners must give - ...til tears are running from eyes???
IS THIS FOR REAL? WHERE IS THE HIDDEN CAMERA? DO SINGAPOREANS BUY THIS STUFF?
About me:
I am a Christian - Born in the US of Chinese parents (funny combination - I know).
Unlike Kong Hee, a computer science graduate who bought his degree online "through distant learning", I have a genuine PhD in theology.Being a Christian for me means to support the poor and needy. Short and sweet. It has nothing to do with giving money to a Church who spends little or nothing on charity (7% per their own Annual report of 2009).
My report from Saturday's service:
"The Church is an ARMY". We must all stand united to FIGHT for our faith?
Last weekend, for 1,5 hours, Kong Hee ranted about the structure of the church, twisting the verses in his usual style, to prepare the members for what? Why is it important for the CHC Christians to understand the organization? Why do CHC members need to be told that it is important not to critizise the leaders? Have there been complaints? For 1,5 hours Kong Hee referred to AGM's, voting, targets,...to conclude that CHC is not a business? (KH words - not mine)
As usual, it all leads to the same:
God asks to "Build the Body of Christ"
The drama team explains "CHC is a body"
The logical conclusion???: "The members must be committed to build CHC"
How to build?:by showing commitment...
1. Recruiting new members - "please bring in your family and friends..."
2. Mentor members - "please stop thinking and swallow what we teach you"
3. Deploy members - "please spend many hours working for CHC free of charge"
and last but not least...
4. Consistently Pledge - Tithe - OfferSome additional things that made me smile, and by no means I am trying to be complete:
Kong Hee's proof texting:1. KH mentions a verse but it is not in the study guide - Oops, somebody will get a bollocking
2. KH quotes 1 Cor. 14:33
33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.KH translates into: Thou shall be quiet during the AGM's. Everybody is allowed to speak as long as it is in line with what the leadership wants as we must all stand united.
In 1 Cor. Paul is addressing the immorality in the church in Corinth.
In the verses right before verse 33, Paul tells the Corinthians not to speak in tongues (speak a different language) and if so, only 2 or 3 at the same time, and only if interpreter presentIn the verse 34, Paul tells the women to keep silent in church...
A few minutes later, the whole room is babbling in tongues as if there is no tomorrow, and Miss Kong Hee gets to praise her husband...
How can any self-respecting Christian, not notice that verse 33 was nicely plucked out of the pack.
To prove what point??? Where is Christ in all this?
3. KH reference to: "Pastor must manage his own household well"
So what about these youtubes on Miss Kong Hee? Are these all fakes? Or are you going to tell me that she is doing church work in her underwear???Anyways - more next time.
JamesT
Good points, Mr. James Tan and you have raised some eye raising issues.
The way I see it, there is no one disciplinary council or body for churches here in Singapore. No one commanding authority to tell some of these churches where they have erred or deviant off from the core teaching of the Bible.
Therefore, these Churches account to no one but to God. Or, rather plain speaking, they are God unto themselves and account unto their goodselves only.
This is not just a problem among Churches. With the increase in religiosity among citizens, it also a problem among Buddhism, Islam and other faiths.
A problem our authority is keenly aware of and with the recent amendment of Charity and Donation Act.
Perhaps you can forward some of your comment to these relevant authorities. They may be keen to here of you, you know?
National Council of Churches (more of an assembly than a judicial body) -
Problem is how far do you allow state to encroach into religion without conflict with some fundamental aspects of the constitution.
Another problem for Churches is that what IS the core teaching ?
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For state intervention, I think we doing right with the commissioner of charity. Money has to be accounted for, given that it is people's money in the first place. Anything more from the state, in my opinion, is not desirable or healthy for the nation.
As for core teaching, it for the Churches to decide but they have been fighting over these from day one.
Maybe not core teaching from the point of uniting them as a body. This is not the right word. But more of core value, with regard to money, to decide what is morally acceptable or not acceptable to the society at large.
Say, how much a religious leader should be paid? Say, how much a religious organisation should its people put money to reserve? etc etc
For this, maybe the wider society can be involved, and not just leave it to the leaders within a religious faith?
My two cents worth ..... -
This case is neither here nor there.
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PAP scared all those mindless christians will vote for opposition if they imprison Dong Kee...................
these christians still dreaming that Dong Kee already booked condos in heaven with their money liao.................
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Originally posted by Aneslayer:
The way with Christ is a spiritual one... no I do not mean the speaking in tongue rubbish.
The fact any church should be self sustainable.... being profitable is a sign of greed....
Whatever happened to the term "as poor as a church mouse".... the mouse has evolved into mega church rat in the rat race...
Glory to the Almighty, alone....
I think many Christians simply accept things the way it has always been for many centuries. To many that's the way to "do church", the difference mainly being the size of the church. -
Originally posted by 4sg:
Good points, Mr. James Tan and you have raised some eye raising issues.
The way I see it, there is no one disciplinary council or body for churches here in Singapore. No one commanding authority to tell some of these churches where they have erred or deviant off from the core teaching of the Bible.
Therefore, these Churches account to no one but to God. Or, rather plain speaking, they are God unto themselves and account unto their goodselves only.
This is not just a problem among Churches. With the increase in religiosity among citizens, it also a problem among Buddhism, Islam and other faiths.
A problem our authority is keenly aware of and with the recent amendment of Charity and Donation Act.
Perhaps you can forward some of your comment to these relevant authorities. They may be keen to here of you, you know?
National Council of Churches (more of an assembly than a judicial body)While there is no ruling body or person "controlling" the churches in Singapore (unlike the Roman Catholic Church), there is a "rule book" aka the Bible by which to follow in terms of faith and practice. In the NT accountability and submission is mutual and organic, rather than hierarchical and organisational as it is practiced today. The relationship between church and state is a complex one, whereby the NT commands that believers be subject to those in authority (and pray for our rulers so that we may live in peace) it also commands that we should obey God rather than men.
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Originally posted by charlize:
This case is neither here nor there.
maybe its time to call Lian He Wan Pao for them to take up the cudgel
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As long as fools abide rascals exploit - catch the drift?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
I think many Christians simply accept things the way it has always been for many centuries. To many that's the way to "do church", the difference mainly being the size of the church.
i agree to that man... had a friend from a church and told me he stopped going there becos he feels that these churches and christians have already misinterpreted or already strayed from the path and the teaching... churches are being run like a business felt wrong to him. according to him since christianity is about a r/s with god, i guess it can be practiced outside a church too. -
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
i agree to that man... had a friend from a church and told me he stopped going there becos he feels that these churches and christians have already misinterpreted or already strayed from the path and the teaching... churches are being run like a business felt wrong to him. according to him since christianity is about a r/s with god, i guess it can be practiced outside a church too.I think the problem with many Christians today is that they have a flawed Ecclesiology. For example, many think of church as a place or a building to go to. But if you look at the NT, such a jargon is NEVER used. Many will of course verbally deny that the church is a physical place or building and that it refers to people or the community of believers etc, but then they betray the flawed ecclesiology when they then ask each other "Which church you go to har?" It's not just about semantics, because words carry meaning and are value-laden.
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i tink it is also how churches are run.Because now it seems as though it is run as a money generating organisation. the essetial(original purpose) of it seems to be undermined. Essentially i think they are not even sure what the church is for in the first place
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
i tink it is also how churches are run.Because now it seems as though it is run as a money generating organisation. the essetial(original purpose) of it seems to be undermined. Essentially i think they are not even sure what the church is for in the first place
When one has alienated the ''god' within oneself, running to the church,running to the temple, running to anthying is utterly being stupid. One cannot recognise it within, how to recognise it without? God is assumed by most believers to be omnipresence and that surely must include the within/without. What a predicament! -
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
i tink it is also how churches are run.Because now it seems as though it is run as a money generating organisation. the essetial(original purpose) of it seems to be undermined. Essentially i think they are not even sure what the church is for in the first place
Most churches today need money to finance their daily operations, and the larger the church, the more money is required to keep the machinery going. Many people will accept that some finances are required, but the main gripe comes when we are talking about the multi-million dollared church "corporations". But I agree with you on this, that many believers are not sure about their ecclesiology. And if those within are not sure, then it is no wonder that nonbelievers also entertain flawed ideas about the church.