what happen to kong hee dishonesty case?
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No proper closer will lead to speculations.
This cannot be in the interest of CHC nor CAD.I found following list of questions from CHC members and none members compiled by contributor RonRon on Sammyboy - Will we ever get the answer?
Why did the CAD raid my Snr Pastor’s home, CHC Office and offices of associates of CHC on 31 May 10?
- 1. Because they suspected abuse of funds
- 2. Because PAP does not like CHC
- 3. It was the Devil’s doing
Why did the CAD interrogate my Snr Pastor and his wife on multiple occasions?
- 1. Because they enjoy talking to Sun
- 2. Because they have nothing better to do
- 3. Because they suspect faul play
Why did my Snr Pastor and his Dy Snr Pastor have to step down?
- 1. Because of conflict of interest
- 2. He did not have to – It was his choice
- 3. Because God told him to take a back-seat
Why did my Snr Pastor pay $46.3 million to the Licensor for simply finding a new place of worship for CHC? Why was the Snr Pastor so generous to give Licensor such a big amount when the Suntec church will not be ready by March 2011 and the usage is non-exclusive and without a tenancy agreement?- 1. Because he is co-owner of the licensor
- 2. Because he likes to give freely
- 3. Because it is just petty cash
Why did the CHC buy million of $ of unquoted bonds from Xtron, a company that has been losing money since it was formed?- 1. Because Kong Hee and Sun are the owners of Xtron
- 2. Because KH likes to help the poor
- 3. Because Kong Hee has strong faith that Xtron one day will flourish
Why did my Snr Pastor announce that CHC was “co-owner” and later clarified that the Church only is a minority shareholder of SCC? This was further clarified by ARA Group in the Chinese newspaper.
- 1. Because, with the giving and all. he did not expect any financially savvy people amongst his flock
- 2. “Co-owner” – “minority shareholder”: it’s all the same isn’t it?
- 3. Because Kong Hee has the right to change his mind
Why did my Snr Pastor pledge the Jurong Church in “the event of non-payment of rent, the creditors have a cause of action against the assets of CHC (i.e. our Jurong West St 91 Church Building)”? Isn’t this a violation of the Societies Act which does not permit society members to subject it’s members to adverse risk?- 1. Because he did not know
- 2. Because he does not care
- 3. All of the above
What is impact of URA restrictions on the church usage of Suntec? Would the space be enough? If space is not enough, what sense is there to move at all? Also, if non-exclusive does it mean have to move out all equipment every Sunday? Where would we go for our Bible classes, morning/evening prayer sessions etc etc as earlier planned for Suntec?
- 1. URA restrictions can be bypassed
- 2. There is enough money to move in-and out every Sunday
- 3. CHC presence will de-motivate and scare off exhibitioners
It has been clarified that Suntec Reit will eventually buy over Suntec Convention Centre in 2-3 years time. Why then did the Senior Pastor announced that the deal was self-sustaining, when it’s unlikely that future shares can be bought in Suntec Convention Centre?
- 1. Because Kong Hee is indirectly involved in Suntec Reit
- 2. Because Kong Hee does not care
- 3. Because Kong Hee believes God will support
Is it true that the Management Committee passed Resolutions to approve the Cultural Mandate and the acceptance of companies linked to CHC (e.g. Xtron and AMAC) as legal and valid? What is the meaning of all this? Does this mean that monies has passed through these companies and involved in matters not in the Building of God’s church?
- 1. Yes
- 2. No
- 3. Probably – definitely true for Xtron. Xtron accompanies Kong Hee and Sun on all their trips, funded by CHC. (See also previous questions)
Is it true that the Senior Pastor and his mentor, Dr Kevin Dyson got their education and qualifications through degree mills i.e. unaccredited institutes of higher education as defined by the US Department of Education?
- 1. Yes
- 2. Yes
- 3. Yes
Is true that CHC has just 14,000+ members rather than 33,000 members as earlier declared by the church.
- 1. Yes
- 2. No
- 3. What’s the difference between 0,3% and 0.6% of total S'porean population? or 0.001% of all Christians? Still very very small
It has been confirmed by newspaper reports and CHC website, that CHC raised $114+ million from 2005-2009. Why is then that there was only $64+ million in the AnB fund in 2009? What happened to the $50 million unaccounted for?
- 1. It went to the licensor
- 2. It went to Sun Ho and Xtron
- 3. It went to charity
Is it true that when Sun Ho was offered the contract of USD5 million by Tonos Entertainment in 2005, Tonos Entertainment had already closed down in 1st Sep 2003? So what contract was Sun Ho on, when she went to America?
- 1. It was all funded by Ed Hardy clothes
- 2. It was all funded by Sun herself
- 3. It was all funded by the Lord
Is it true that the Senior Pastor is paid director fees as the President/Chairman of the Management Board of CHC, when he specifically said that he does not collect any pay from the Church?
- 1. Yes
- 2. No
- 3. Does it matter how the money eventually lands in Kong Hee’s pockets?
With the URA restrictions (no tenancy agreement), little or no possibility of further shares purchase and also not requiring major renovations (non-exclusive use) are we still talking about a $310 million Suntec deal or a sum which is much less? Shouldn’t this information be disseminated to the church if there are any updates? Is there anymore necessity to raise the further $245 million through A & B Fund raising for the next 8 years at an average of $31 million per fund-raising year?
- 1. Yes
- 2. No – CHC’ers have unconditional trust in their leader.
- 3. Worse case – CHC goes broke – so better keep on giving.
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Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
to BroInChrist:
Is the Church a building? Wouldn't that have been bad news for Paul? Good news for Kong Hee though.
That depends on whether you seek a Biblically correct answer or not. The church is described in many ways in the Bible, even as a Temple. But this Temple is spiritual, made of living stones i.e. believers, and not brick and mortar. So the church is NOT a physical building. Unfortunately that's what comes to most peoples' minds when they think of church.
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Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
No proper closer will lead to speculations.
This cannot be in the interest of CHC nor CAD.I found following list of questions from CHC members and none members compiled by contributor RonRon on Sammyboy - Will we ever get the answer?
Why did the CAD raid my Snr Pastor’s home, CHC Office and offices of associates of CHC on 31 May 10?
- 1. Because they suspected abuse of funds
- 2. Because PAP does not like CHC
- 3. It was the Devil’s doing
Why did the CAD interrogate my Snr Pastor and his wife on multiple occasions?
- 1. Because they enjoy talking to Sun
- 2. Because they have nothing better to do
- 3. Because they suspect faul play
Why did my Snr Pastor and his Dy Snr Pastor have to step down?
- 1. Because of conflict of interest
- 2. He did not have to – It was his choice
- 3. Because God told him to take a back-seat
Why did my Snr Pastor pay $46.3 million to the Licensor for simply finding a new place of worship for CHC? Why was the Snr Pastor so generous to give Licensor such a big amount when the Suntec church will not be ready by March 2011 and the usage is non-exclusive and without a tenancy agreement?- 1. Because he is co-owner of the licensor
- 2. Because he likes to give freely
- 3. Because it is just petty cash
Why did the CHC buy million of $ of unquoted bonds from Xtron, a company that has been losing money since it was formed?- 1. Because Kong Hee and Sun are the owners of Xtron
- 2. Because KH likes to help the poor
- 3. Because Kong Hee has strong faith that Xtron one day will flourish
Why did my Snr Pastor announce that CHC was “co-owner” and later clarified that the Church only is a minority shareholder of SCC? This was further clarified by ARA Group in the Chinese newspaper.
- 1. Because, with the giving and all. he did not expect any financially savvy people amongst his flock
- 2. “Co-owner” – “minority shareholder”: it’s all the same isn’t it?
- 3. Because Kong Hee has the right to change his mind
Why did my Snr Pastor pledge the Jurong Church in “the event of non-payment of rent, the creditors have a cause of action against the assets of CHC (i.e. our Jurong West St 91 Church Building)”? Isn’t this a violation of the Societies Act which does not permit society members to subject it’s members to adverse risk?- 1. Because he did not know
- 2. Because he does not care
- 3. All of the above
What is impact of URA restrictions on the church usage of Suntec? Would the space be enough? If space is not enough, what sense is there to move at all? Also, if non-exclusive does it mean have to move out all equipment every Sunday? Where would we go for our Bible classes, morning/evening prayer sessions etc etc as earlier planned for Suntec?
- 1. URA restrictions can be bypassed
- 2. There is enough money to move in-and out every Sunday
- 3. CHC presence will de-motivate and scare off exhibitioners
It has been clarified that Suntec Reit will eventually buy over Suntec Convention Centre in 2-3 years time. Why then did the Senior Pastor announced that the deal was self-sustaining, when it’s unlikely that future shares can be bought in Suntec Convention Centre?
- 1. Because Kong Hee is indirectly involved in Suntec Reit
- 2. Because Kong Hee does not care
- 3. Because Kong Hee believes God will support
Is it true that the Management Committee passed Resolutions to approve the Cultural Mandate and the acceptance of companies linked to CHC (e.g. Xtron and AMAC) as legal and valid? What is the meaning of all this? Does this mean that monies has passed through these companies and involved in matters not in the Building of God’s church?
- 1. Yes
- 2. No
- 3. Probably – definitely true for Xtron. Xtron accompanies Kong Hee and Sun on all their trips, funded by CHC. (See also previous questions)
Is it true that the Senior Pastor and his mentor, Dr Kevin Dyson got their education and qualifications through degree mills i.e. unaccredited institutes of higher education as defined by the US Department of Education?
- 1. Yes
- 2. Yes
- 3. Yes
Is true that CHC has just 14,000+ members rather than 33,000 members as earlier declared by the church.
- 1. Yes
- 2. No
- 3. What’s the difference between 0,3% and 0.6% of total S'porean population? or 0.001% of all Christians? Still very very small
It has been confirmed by newspaper reports and CHC website, that CHC raised $114+ million from 2005-2009. Why is then that there was only $64+ million in the AnB fund in 2009? What happened to the $50 million unaccounted for?
- 1. It went to the licensor
- 2. It went to Sun Ho and Xtron
- 3. It went to charity
Is it true that when Sun Ho was offered the contract of USD5 million by Tonos Entertainment in 2005, Tonos Entertainment had already closed down in 1st Sep 2003? So what contract was Sun Ho on, when she went to America?
- 1. It was all funded by Ed Hardy clothes
- 2. It was all funded by Sun herself
- 3. It was all funded by the Lord
Is it true that the Senior Pastor is paid director fees as the President/Chairman of the Management Board of CHC, when he specifically said that he does not collect any pay from the Church?
- 1. Yes
- 2. No
- 3. Does it matter how the money eventually lands in Kong Hee’s pockets?
With the URA restrictions (no tenancy agreement), little or no possibility of further shares purchase and also not requiring major renovations (non-exclusive use) are we still talking about a $310 million Suntec deal or a sum which is much less? Shouldn’t this information be disseminated to the church if there are any updates? Is there anymore necessity to raise the further $245 million through A & B Fund raising for the next 8 years at an average of $31 million per fund-raising year?
- 1. Yes
- 2. No – CHC’ers have unconditional trust in their leader.
- 3. Worse case – CHC goes broke – so better keep on giving.
James, I understand that you might have your criticisms of CHC and its leadership, but I think you have to be careful not to end up joining the side of others who intend to mock the faith using CHC. In my view some of the answers given in the compiled questions are designed to mock and insult the faith.
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The word fire is no fire till it burns - idiocy is to not know that one's stance of being defensive is hiding and masking the ignorance of fear!
-
So many questions.
So little answers.
-
Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:
No proper closer will lead to speculations.
This cannot be in the interest of CHC nor CAD.I found following list of questions from CHC members and none members compiled by contributor RonRon on Sammyboy - Will we ever get the answer?
Why did the CAD raid my Snr Pastor’s home, CHC Office and offices of associates of CHC on 31 May 10?
- 1. Because they suspected abuse of funds
- 2. Because PAP does not like CHC
- 3. It was the Devil’s doing
Why did the CAD interrogate my Snr Pastor and his wife on multiple occasions?
- 1. Because they enjoy talking to Sun
- 2. Because they have nothing better to do
- 3. Because they suspect faul play
Why did my Snr Pastor and his Dy Snr Pastor have to step down?
- 1. Because of conflict of interest
- 2. He did not have to – It was his choice
- 3. Because God told him to take a back-seat
Why did my Snr Pastor pay $46.3 million to the Licensor for simply finding a new place of worship for CHC? Why was the Snr Pastor so generous to give Licensor such a big amount when the Suntec church will not be ready by March 2011 and the usage is non-exclusive and without a tenancy agreement?- 1. Because he is co-owner of the licensor
- 2. Because he likes to give freely
- 3. Because it is just petty cash
Why did the CHC buy million of $ of unquoted bonds from Xtron, a company that has been losing money since it was formed?- 1. Because Kong Hee and Sun are the owners of Xtron
- 2. Because KH likes to help the poor
- 3. Because Kong Hee has strong faith that Xtron one day will flourish
Why did my Snr Pastor announce that CHC was “co-owner” and later clarified that the Church only is a minority shareholder of SCC? This was further clarified by ARA Group in the Chinese newspaper.
- 1. Because, with the giving and all. he did not expect any financially savvy people amongst his flock
- 2. “Co-owner” – “minority shareholder”: it’s all the same isn’t it?
- 3. Because Kong Hee has the right to change his mind
Why did my Snr Pastor pledge the Jurong Church in “the event of non-payment of rent, the creditors have a cause of action against the assets of CHC (i.e. our Jurong West St 91 Church Building)”? Isn’t this a violation of the Societies Act which does not permit society members to subject it’s members to adverse risk?- 1. Because he did not know
- 2. Because he does not care
- 3. All of the above
What is impact of URA restrictions on the church usage of Suntec? Would the space be enough? If space is not enough, what sense is there to move at all? Also, if non-exclusive does it mean have to move out all equipment every Sunday? Where would we go for our Bible classes, morning/evening prayer sessions etc etc as earlier planned for Suntec?
- 1. URA restrictions can be bypassed
- 2. There is enough money to move in-and out every Sunday
- 3. CHC presence will de-motivate and scare off exhibitioners
It has been clarified that Suntec Reit will eventually buy over Suntec Convention Centre in 2-3 years time. Why then did the Senior Pastor announced that the deal was self-sustaining, when it’s unlikely that future shares can be bought in Suntec Convention Centre?
- 1. Because Kong Hee is indirectly involved in Suntec Reit
- 2. Because Kong Hee does not care
- 3. Because Kong Hee believes God will support
Is it true that the Management Committee passed Resolutions to approve the Cultural Mandate and the acceptance of companies linked to CHC (e.g. Xtron and AMAC) as legal and valid? What is the meaning of all this? Does this mean that monies has passed through these companies and involved in matters not in the Building of God’s church?
- 1. Yes
- 2. No
- 3. Probably – definitely true for Xtron. Xtron accompanies Kong Hee and Sun on all their trips, funded by CHC. (See also previous questions)
Is it true that the Senior Pastor and his mentor, Dr Kevin Dyson got their education and qualifications through degree mills i.e. unaccredited institutes of higher education as defined by the US Department of Education?
- 1. Yes
- 2. Yes
- 3. Yes
Is true that CHC has just 14,000+ members rather than 33,000 members as earlier declared by the church.
- 1. Yes
- 2. No
- 3. What’s the difference between 0,3% and 0.6% of total S'porean population? or 0.001% of all Christians? Still very very small
It has been confirmed by newspaper reports and CHC website, that CHC raised $114+ million from 2005-2009. Why is then that there was only $64+ million in the AnB fund in 2009? What happened to the $50 million unaccounted for?
- 1. It went to the licensor
- 2. It went to Sun Ho and Xtron
- 3. It went to charity
Is it true that when Sun Ho was offered the contract of USD5 million by Tonos Entertainment in 2005, Tonos Entertainment had already closed down in 1st Sep 2003? So what contract was Sun Ho on, when she went to America?
- 1. It was all funded by Ed Hardy clothes
- 2. It was all funded by Sun herself
- 3. It was all funded by the Lord
Is it true that the Senior Pastor is paid director fees as the President/Chairman of the Management Board of CHC, when he specifically said that he does not collect any pay from the Church?
- 1. Yes
- 2. No
- 3. Does it matter how the money eventually lands in Kong Hee’s pockets?
With the URA restrictions (no tenancy agreement), little or no possibility of further shares purchase and also not requiring major renovations (non-exclusive use) are we still talking about a $310 million Suntec deal or a sum which is much less? Shouldn’t this information be disseminated to the church if there are any updates? Is there anymore necessity to raise the further $245 million through A & B Fund raising for the next 8 years at an average of $31 million per fund-raising year?
- 1. Yes
- 2. No – CHC’ers have unconditional trust in their leader.
- 3. Worse case – CHC goes broke – so better keep on giving.
People got so much time do all these questions?
-
Originally posted by Fugazzi:
The word fire is no fire till it burns – idiocy is to not know that one’s stance of being defensive is hiding and masking the ignorance of fear!
The word "fire" means what it means, whether there is an actual fire burning or not.
So does it mean that your stance of NOT being defensive (as in not being able to defend your own existentialistic worldview) is you being honest about your own fears and ignorance?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
The word "fire" means what it means, whether there is an actual fire burning or not.
So does it mean that your stance of NOT being defensive (as in not being able to defend your own existentialistic worldview) is you being honest about your own fears and ignorance?
there is a difference b/w not being about to and not wanting to right? how do u know he is not being able to defend it? -
Originally posted by charlize:
People got so much time do all these questions?
persistency lah
the great scam such as NTIparis started in 2001/2002 period and it was only in 2009/2010 that the leaders were finally imprisoned
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
there is a difference b/w not being about to and not wanting to right? how do u know he is not being able to defend it?
Based on my interactions with him it is fair and reasonable to conclude that he is incompetent to defend his existentialist worldview. Not only that, he was shown to be making many self-refuting and self-defeating statements, to the extent that he even think it is virtuous to hold contradictory beliefs. This is being existentially irrational. -
One can go and think about a glass of water till the cows come home. As long as one has not partaken of it physically (ie, touching the glass, drinking it tasting it) all talk is ABOUT and about believing; it means the only reality is that of it being psycholigical (only in the mind) and if many around agrees - it adds to oneself that many agree, hence it becomes socially relevant. In other words, one is going around parroting without really experiecning it. Behind this facade, is ego-tripping (aka sense of self is attached to something that props oneself up) and anything that threatens this particular belief is bound to be vehemently defended. Eg If I am a Buddhist and hold buddhist beliefs, anyone criticising buddha or ... would threaten my sense of self. The criticism of Buddha or .. is merely an excuse. my being defensive says what I am all about. If i get upset or ... reality is I am attached to Buddhism and my sense of self is vulnerable. Why? Anything that is a fiction, needs maintenance and what is existentially real does not need. If I go on simply thinking about ... n beleiving in a glass of water, it is merely a thought and it means nothing. However, if i have tasted it and another listens ot me and is open to questioning and risking oneself to find out or, in this instance, taste it, till then it is simply deluding oneself. My standing in a church or temple or ... and parroting scriptures/???/ does not make me religious. Am i living religiously? This presupposes self-honesty and ethics! As to whether it is true or untrue or all depends on where one is on the spectrum of religion/spirituality! SELF-DECEPTION is a disease amongst most believers!
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
One can go and think about a glass of water till the cows come home. As long as one has not partaken of it physically (ie, touching the glass, drinking it tasting it) all talk is ABOUT and about believing; it means the only reality is that of it being psycholigical (only in the mind) and if many around agrees – it adds to oneself that many agree, hence it becomes socially relevant. In other words, one is going around parroting without really experiecning it.
Behind this facade, is ego-tripping (aka sense of self is attached to something that props oneself up) and anything that threatens this particular belief is bound to be vehemently defended. Eg If I am a Buddhist and hold buddhist beliefs, anyone criticising buddha or … would threaten my sense of self. The criticism of Buddha or .. is merely an excuse. my being defensive says what I am all about. If i get upset or … reality is I am attached to Buddhism and my sense of self is vulnerable.
Why? Anything that is a fiction, needs maintenance and what is existentially real does not need. If I go on simply thinking about … n beleiving in a glass of water, it is merely a thought and it means nothing. However, if i have tasted it and another listens ot me and is open to questioning and risking oneself to find out or, in this instance, taste it, till then it is simply deluding oneself.
My standing in a church or temple or … and parroting scriptures/???/ does not make me religious.
Am i living religiously? This presupposes self-honesty and ethics!
As to whether it is true or untrue or all depends on where one is on the spectrum of religion/spirituality!
SELF-DECEPTION is a disease amongst most believers!
You are just recycling the few standard postings with little variation so that it looks different. And you never get down to a direct answer. Your so-called answers are existentially irrelevant. -
Self-deception is a disease lah
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
Self-deception is a disease lah
Problem is that you are blind to yours, or are in self-denial. -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Problem is that you are blind to yours, or are in self-denial.
from what i see, actually you both are like the same eh. :) -
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
from what i see, actually you both are like the same eh. :)the troll BIC wouldnt admit even if shown the mirror lah
-
Originally posted by laurence82:
the troll BIC wouldnt admit even if shown the mirror lah
Look who's projecting again! -
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
from what i see, actually you both are like the same eh. :)
Which begs the question, how so? -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Look who's projecting again!u, troll?
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Which begs the question, how so?
because when u points something out about fugazzi and he does not accept u claim that he is in self denial and is blind to that aspect. However when he does the same, you did the same thing as him also mah. To him, you are also in self denial and blind to it also ma. -
oh yea so back to wad this topic is about, so there is no evidence at all regarding whatever we think KH is doing/trying to do?
-
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
because when u points something out about fugazzi and he does not accept u claim that he is in self denial and is blind to that aspect. However when he does the same, you did the same thing as him also mah. To him, you are also in self denial and blind to it also ma.You did not get the drift of my question. Question is, do YOU agree with Fuzzi that I am self-deluded? If so, in what way?
As to Fuzzi's self-delusion, I think I have more than amply demonstrated it. I have shown on many occasions how he ends up saying things that contradict himself. In fact, he even admitted to holding contradicting beliefs! What have you to say to that?
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
oh yea so back to wad this topic is about, so there is no evidence at all regarding whatever we think KH is doing/trying to do?
There sure is a lot of SPECULATION regarding what KH has done or is trying to do.
Best is let the authorities do their work.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
You did not get the drift of my question. Question is, do YOU agree with Fuzzi that I am self-deluded? If so, in what way?
As to Fuzzi's self-delusion, I think I have more than amply demonstrated it. I have shown on many occasions how he ends up saying things that contradict himself. In fact, he even admitted to holding contradicting beliefs! What have you to say to that?
actually i dun quite get why do u have to question other ppl's belief? -
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
actually i dun quite get why do u have to question other ppl's belief?Why do you have to question me why I question other people's beliefs????
OK, that was being facetious. The truth is, people have all kinds of beliefs about everything under the sun. And there are beliefs that matter, and those that don't. There are also beliefs that have consequences when being acted upon, and also beliefs that have little or no consequences. Many people go through life accepting beliefs without question, and I am sure you also think many Christians are like that. I want to demonstrate the reasonableness of belief in Christianity.
And from what I see on this forum, many nonbelievers are here questioning the beliefs of Christians (some even mock and insult but these are the trolls which should be better ignored). So I think it is only fair that the beliefs of nonbelievers here be questioned as well. It's a level playing field here, each one must play both defense and offense.