Christian Arguments for God’s Existence - Refutations
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Demon Bane,
Indeed there are many scientists who choose to believe in an infinite or eternal universe, despite what the scientific community has established as an incontrovertible fact, that the universe has a beginning. Again, whether scientists or religious folks, to hold to such a belief would be doing so despite what the established facts are. I would say, at the very least, that the fact of a finite universe supports or confirms what the Bible has said all along for thousands of years, that space time matter had a beginning. I think it is significant that the very first verse of the Bible is scientifically sound.
I'm happy that you've found what u always wanted....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
I'm happy that you've found what u always wanted....
dun believe him. his claims are out of order, wild claims or his claim.
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All of you reallly �饱没事干
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I think we all have our own rights to believe whatever we want to believe...what is most important is we have to be truthful in our own hearts...are we really happy? Are our choice of religions really helping us in our daily lives? Are our religions practical or simply ritual ?
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
I think we all have our own rights to believe whatever we want to believe...what is most important is we have to be truthful in our own hearts...are we really happy? Are our choice of religions really helping us in our daily lives? Are our religions practical or simply ritual ?
Fair agrument
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Originally posted by youyayu:
All of you reallly �饱没事干
you dun
so why are you here at sg forum?
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
you dun
so why are you here at sg forum?
I havent eat
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Originally posted by youyayu:
I havent eat
then go eat lar duh
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
If we already proven that 1 + 1 = 2 and based upon all calculations in mathematics, is it a bias point of view? If christians already assumed that God exist before the Bible was compiled, was that bias too ? I dunno, at some point of time, we just have to accept the mathematician's assumption ....same for christianity I guessed...
when I paint, 1 + 1 = 1. red color and blue color, I don't get 2 color, but 1 violet. 1 blue and 1 yellow I get green, instead of 2 colors. can you explain why red color plus blue color does not add up to red and blue, but violet?
When I put on an artist hat, mathematical assumptions make no sense!!
but those mathematicians, at least they think they are, will not agree. -
Just a clarification since some mentioning of Buddhism is discussed here.
Buddhist view is not that the universe is infinite or eternal. We believe in recycling universes - each universe has a beginning and destruction, but recycles. Buddha does not posit the finity or infinity of the universe. To me, the finity of universe is very plausible. However this is from the conventional perspective - ultimately everything is empty, this is why Buddha does not want to address such views.
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Can it be that every major religious beliefs are correct ? As for buddhism, there is no "beginning" and thus no "ending"....so if you ask me questions about "in the beginning" , I dunno leh....for my belief is that there is no real "beginning"....life is eternal in buddhism, only the forms becomes different....life is continuous....a cycle of birth, old age, sickness and death....the universe also have its "life cycle"....then a new universe shall be formed when the old one fades away...
what is correct?
Christians believe life is a straight line, there is a beginning, there is an end. Buddhists believe life goes in cycle, reincarnation. These believes are different. The common belief is eternity, Christians believe in eternal life, with God or without God. Buddhists' reincarnation will go on, and on and on. and those who don't believe in any religion is believing that they exist when they were born, and they cease to exist when they breath their last breath, life to them is a short straight line, such short life spend will not see the changes in the universe, and a new universe has no meaning for them.
To each his own.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Just a clarification since some mentioning of Buddhism is discussed here.
Buddhist view is not that the universe is infinite or eternal. We believe in recycling universes - each universe has a beginning and destruction, but recycles. Buddha does not posit the finity or infinity of the universe. To me, the finity of universe is very plausible. However this is from the conventional perspective - ultimately everything is empty, this is why Buddha does not want to address such views.
will it come a day when this recycling ends?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
will it come a day when this recycling ends?
Conventionally speaking, no.
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woah is this my 1st time seeing AEN in EH?
haha... just joking
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Conventionally speaking, no.
then the recycling goes into eternity?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
then the recycling goes into eternity?
Conventionally, the recycling has no end, so yes. It is a constantly changing 'eternal'. Not this universe that is eternal (this particular current universe has a beginning and an end), but the process. The process is perpetual. But this is all just conventionally speaking, and conventional truths are not ultimately true, that is why Buddha did not deal with these things (rejected these questions as unhelpful to our goal of ending suffering).
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Conventionally, the recycling has no end, so yes. It is a constantly changing 'eternal'. Not this universe that is eternal (this particular current universe has a beginning and an end), but the process. The process is perpetual. But this is all just conventionally speaking, and conventional truths are not ultimately true, that is why Buddha did not deal with these things (rejected these questions as unhelpful to our goal of ending suffering).
Thank you for sharing. You use "conventionlly speaking" and "conventiional truths", what exact does "conventionally" mean? do you mean "this is what the normal worldly thoughts, or perception"?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
I know 1+1=2, but I am asking you WHY it is the way it is. Why do mathematical axioms work the way they do? You say it is natural thing to do. It's just saying that's the way it is without explaining why. Why is it consistently that 1+1=2 everywhere in the universe? Even on earth you can say satu + satu = dua, we call it differently but the truth is that 1+1=2. Question for you is, why is there such a universal order? Why do you believe that 1+1 always will be 2? You believe that the universe is a random accident, that is is chance random processes. Explain the order that we discover please according to your worldview.
And you want me to say "Because the Christian God is behind this"?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Again don't hide behind other religions. What about YOU?
Hide behind other religions??
I am being fair and objective whereas you are being narrowminded by insisting that it is the jewish-christian God who did it.
PLEASE be more objective.
Acknowledge the existence of other religions and their teachings!
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
So because you think there is no clear way out, you choose to take the easy way out and declare Christianity as wrong and to be rejected? This speaks more about you than the faith I believe in.
You still have NOT given me a clear method to know which christian's interpretation is correct. Pls focus.
You say by
a) prayer
b) studying scripture
c) stuyding christian articles
You will know that baptism isnt needed for salvation
BUT
The other christians also tell me that by
a) prayer
b) studying scripture
c) stuyding christian articles
You will know that baptism IS needed for salvation
Please advise a clearer and different method for me so I can differentiate who is right and who is wrong. I have to make a safe decision to be saved.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
when I paint, 1 + 1 = 1. red color and blue color, I don't get 2 color, but 1 violet. 1 blue and 1 yellow I get green, instead of 2 colors. can you explain why red color plus blue color does not add up to red and blue, but violet?
When I put on an artist hat, mathematical assumptions make no sense!!
but those mathematicians, at least
they think they are, will not agree.Yeap...different people will view things differently....of coz they may disagree...
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
when I paint, 1 + 1 = 1. red color and blue color, I don't get 2 color, but 1 violet. 1 blue and 1 yellow I get green, instead of 2 colors. can you explain why red color plus blue color does not add up to red and blue, but violet?
When I put on an artist hat, mathematical assumptions make no sense!!
but those mathematicians, at least
they think they are, will not agree.sgdiehard
You are wrong. In fact it is still 2.
There are 2 components in the mixed color.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
sgdiehard
You are wrong. In fact it is still 2.
There are 2 components in the mixed color.
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very quick to jump in and say "wrong".
You study Chemistry? what does "2 components" mean?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
very quick to jump in and say "wrong".
You study Chemistry? what does "2 components" mean?
Nope I dont. I am just simply saying - There are in fact 2 color solutions in the "mixed color".
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Nope I dont. I am just simply saying - There are in fact 2 color solutions in the "mixed color".
again, what is "mixed"?
In chemistry, there is reversible reaction and irreversible reaction.
when red and blue color mix, it becomes violet, and you cannot separate violet and return it to blue and red color again. that is 1 + 1 = 1.
Oxygen and hydrogen can mix to become water, but water can be separated to form oxygen and hydrogen again. that is reversible.
In chemistry there are many many irreversible reactions!!
Don't jump into conclusion and pass judgement so quickly, there are many things you don't know.