Originally posted by Catorange:Incest. Since Adam and Eve were able to live for hundreds of years, by then there would be lots of offsprings to further multiply. Be fruitful and multiply.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” Gen 1
3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died. Gen 5
any proof that adam and eve once existed as historical figure? any fossils as proof? oh wait, adam and eve exists in the bible isnt it, the way superman exists in dc comics and movies and cartoons.
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:any proof that adam and eve once existed as historical figure? any fossils as proof? oh wait, adam and eve exists in the bible isnt it, the way superman exists in dc comics and movies and cartoons.
Do you have any proof that there was an ape in your ancestry? Which fossils as prove? Not only do you NOT have proof, the idea is also irrational and absurd.
BUT
Common sense tells us that there is NOTHING unreasonable or illogical in Adam and Eve being our first human parents who were created by God fully formed, mature and functioning in all ways just as they were designed to. And neither is there any evidence against the Biblical record of our first parents. And since the Bible has been vindicated many times and shown to be historically reliable, we also have good reasons to accept the historicity of Adam and Eve. See http://creation.com/pseudo-history and http://creation.com/historical-adam-biologos
Would ppl even bother to read the links u provide if all they want is to rant?
Originally posted by despondent:Would ppl even bother to read the links u provide if all they want is to rant?
As an open forum any post will not just be for one person to read, even if it is directed at him. So at the very least chronic ranters like Jacky cannot say Christians have not rebutted their rantings.
And perhaps others who are more noble than Jacky and his ilk may have the intellectual honesty and integrity to at least check out the articles and know our responses to their rantings.
can i ask a question? is it that christians are not allowed to touch the incense of other religion(basically taoist)
i have to ask u another qn...wad do u mean by touch? we are only not allowed to bow to or worship ancestors and the dead...
My Christian frens all ok about worshipping ancestors...they bow their heads but not touch the incense....
Originally posted by despondent:i have to ask u another qn...wad do u mean by touch? we are only not allowed to bow to or worship ancestors and the dead...
as in they cannot hold the incense loh...
bowing is controversial...it can be seen as paying respect...but kneeling and bowing wif incense is seen as worship and praying...you muz take note tat christians are not perfect people...we do have our fair share of sinning against God...sometimes sinning unknowingly, sometimes knowingly...
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:can i ask a question? is it that christians are not allowed to touch the incense of other religion(basically taoist)
No where does the Bible says we are not allowed to touch incense. It's like what Eve said in the Garden of Eden. God said not to eat from the tree, but Eve added to say that God forbade even the touching of that tree. It's what we do with them that matters. Had Eve merely touched the forbidden fruit, but taken heed of God's Word and not eat from it, things would be Edenic still!
Originally posted by Demon Bane:My Christian frens all ok about worshipping ancestors...they bow their heads but not touch the incense....
Urr...bowing heads is not saying OK about worshipping ancestors. It's paying respects to the dead. But on an "existential" note, I think we should pay more attention to honoring and respecting the living while they are still with us, esp our loved ones like our aged parents.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:No where does the Bible says we are not allowed to touch incense. It's like what Eve said in the Garden of Eden. God said not to eat from the tree, but Eve added to say that God forbade even the touching of that tree. It's what we do with them that matters. Had Eve merely touched the forbidden fruit, but taken heed of God's Word and not eat from it, things would be Edenic still!
so thats like an extended interpretation of what god said. I have someone close who just converted and she has been asked by her parents to be present during qing ming festival just as a form of respect for the dead/ancestors. No praying or worshipping needed. Is that anyway offensive to christianity itself? I understand that you all may not be into the idea of ancestors and stuffs but just being present amidst all the burning, incense while not praying and stuffs, is that anyway not acceptable by the religion itself?
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
so thats like an extended interpretation of what god said. I have someone close who just converted and she has been asked by her parents to be present during qing ming festival just as a form of respect for the dead/ancestors. No praying or worshipping needed. Is that anyway offensive to christianity itself? I understand that you all may not be into the idea of ancestors and stuffs but just being present amidst all the burning, incense while not praying and stuffs, is that anyway not acceptable by the religion itself?
The Bible does not prescribe for every scenario, so I think in this case there is Christian liberty to be exercised. But personally I am OK with being present at such times. Perhaps it is helpful to respectfully communicate that you wish to refrain from holding joss sticks or participating in the rituals.
BIC,
just a sidetrack, are u a believer of the teaching tat every verse in the bible has to be interpreted according to context? tat even in application, it muz stil be within the context?
Originally posted by despondent:BIC,
just a sidetrack, are u a believer of the teaching tat every verse in the bible has to be interpreted according to context? tat even in application, it muz stil be within the context?
Interpretation according to context is definitely yes. And from interpretation sometimes we can derive principles that can be translated across time to help us apply to present circumstances. But generally speaking where circumstances and contexts are similar to the Bible's teachings, then I think application should be in accordance to that context.
Originally posted by BroInChrist:The Bible does not prescribe for every scenario, so I think in this case there is Christian liberty to be exercised. But personally I am OK with being present at such times. Perhaps it is helpful to respectfully communicate that you wish to refrain from holding joss sticks or participating in the rituals.
well... im a non christian but personally i do feel that it shld be alright to just at least be present. Its the same as a christian going through a relative's buddhism/taoism funeral... kinda disrespectful to not even be present just becos of different religious beliefs imo. Well i've seen some christians doing that which is partly why i have this distaste over some of their actions.
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
well... im a non christian but personally i do feel that it shld be alright to just at least be present. Its the same as a christian going through a relative's buddhism/taoism funeral... kinda disrespectful to not even be present just becos of different religious beliefs imo. Well i've seen some christians doing that which is partly why i have this distaste over some of their actions.
Then may I suggest that your dislike or distaste for their actions/behaviour be distinguished from the truth claims of Christianity? In other words, your rejection of the faith should not be because of the actions of some Christians which may not be consistent with what the Bible teaches.
my distaste is over their actions while they use the religion as a coverup for their actions. If i really have a distaste over the religion i probaboly wont be here anyway :)
BIC,
i guess it may be better if i gave some egs and we discuss from there? lets start wif sth simple...''be fruitful and multiply'' according to context means God telling Adam to be fruitful and and populate earth...in other words produce offsprings...if i use this verse in modern day context to mean be fruitful in wadever we do and multiply wadever gifts and abilities God has given to us, would u see this as taking the verse out of context?
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:my distaste is over their actions while they use the religion as a coverup for their actions. If i really have a distaste over the religion i probaboly wont be here anyway :)
could u share wif me wad u mean by using religion as a coverup for their actions? juz wan to make sure i am tinking correctly wad u are mean...
means ppl tell me god say christians cannot touch insence... so i cannot touch. Or christians cannot attend buddhist funeral or taoist funeral 1... so i nvr go lor and another thing that made me quite unhappy was my friend say "chruch meetings cannot miss" so her grandma's hospital appointment had to be missed cos she needs to go church. These are some that i rmb... but my belief is that christianity doesn't propogate such actions but these ppl use the religion as a cover for these actions and thus, alot of ppl gets the wrong idea.
i would say this is the result of the original sin...BIC did mention tat God told Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit but serpent asked Eve whether God said not to touch the forbidden fruit and Eve conveniently treated touch and eat as the same...
the bible may teach tat we shld nt worship ancestors, kneel or bow to them...but humans, having the original deception of satan in us(see above) may stretch things further to mean cannot touch incense...reason being incense is related to ancestral worship...wad if i was merely passing the incense to someone else? is it wrong?
another possible reason why believers may stretch the actual meanings could be due to cultural influence. In the more conservative and traditional churches, believers are tot to be extra cautious in living life...so while touching incense is strictly speaking not wrong but since its linked to ancestral worship, dun do it at all...its like one toe is rotting, its better to amputate the whole leg...hope u get wad i mean...
bible did say not to participate in the rituals of other religions...BUT it did not say not to ATTEND the funerals of other religions...to ATTEND is to be physically there only...to PARTICIPATE is to be spiritually involved...however, due to the original sin of adam and also a more conservative approach, some christians may opt to stay away completely lest they fall into temptation and end up PARTICIPATING...
well... i get what u mean... what is your take on the "church meetings cannot miss"?
Originally posted by despondent:bible did say not to participate in the rituals of other religions...BUT it did not say not to ATTEND the funerals of other religions...to ATTEND is to be physically there only...to PARTICIPATE is to be spiritually involved...however, due to the original sin of adam and also a more conservative approach, some christians may opt to stay away completely lest they fall into temptation and end up PARTICIPATING...
ic... not sure if its jus me... but using that as a reason and not even be there is really not respectful for the dead. Especially when the dead is somewhat related to you.