I've always wanted to ask this...
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
well.. i actually can defend.. but just choose not to =D. u see ur point is that if a belief cannot be defended then it is either not a belief or that there is no good reason to hold on to it. But i see it differently, i feel that personal beliefs are not things that needs to be defended upon. Ppl are free to say to think to cricticise, and if i do not weaver in my own thoughts and beliefs, why would i even need to defend it. The more open a heart is the less i need to defend myself.
But how do you propose to defend something that you admittedly have not thought about? Surely you do not propose to give an ad hoc defense by giving ad hoc explanations? And surely you also would not think well of Christians who cannot defend their beliefs ya? You cannot have double standards here. If you cut yourself so much slack in not defending your beliefs, then likewise you should not find fault with those who cannot defend their beliefs. You can of course stubbornly dig your heels and hold to your beliefs. But then how different are you from those you criticise as having blind faith or just believing what they are told? Wouldn't you also be deceiving yourself?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
But how do you propose to defend something that you admittedly have not thought about? Surely you do not propose to give an ad hoc defense by giving ad hoc explanations? And surely you also would not think well of Christians who cannot defend their beliefs ya? You cannot have double standards here. If you cut yourself so much slack in not defending your beliefs, then likewise you should not find fault with those who cannot defend their beliefs. You can of course stubbornly dig your heels and hold to your beliefs. But then how different are you from those you criticise as having blind faith or just believing what they are told? Wouldn't you also be deceiving yourself?
i have not thought about some of the questions you asked me but that does not mean that i have not thought about my own set of beliefs. Same thing as those questions you ask you felt that it is relevant to answer but i felt that i do not need to answer or to know the answer of such questions to have a set of belief. And no i do not think badly of christians who do not defend or are unable to defend their beliefs. I believe that you assumed alot of things here and that not everyone have to think and fuction the way you do. I do not believe i've set double standards here. I am only unhappy with christians not in their beliefs but in their actions. Which i believe i have and already did make myself clear on what i disliked. You see, you believed that everyone's beliefs have to be defended upon while i don't. Neither do i see ppl that do not defend their beliefs and i dislike them for doing that. Apparently your posts makes me feel that u dislike ppl or u felt that all beliefs shld be defended upon. But it is you who thinks that way. Not me. And as for the questions i've i mind about life, no one or no religion can give me a good answer on that yet. It could be due to my lack of knowledge in the respective religion but it could also be that they do not have the answers at all which is why i subscribe to being a free thinker which to my own understanding is someone who does not subscribe to one and only religious belief. Im here to understand more, not to get converted. -
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
i have not thought about some of the questions you asked me but that does not mean that i have not thought about my own set of beliefs. Same thing as those questions you ask you felt that it is relevant to answer but i felt that i do not need to answer or to know the answer of such questions to have a set of belief. And no i do not think badly of christians who do not defend or are unable to defend their beliefs. I believe that you assumed alot of things here and that not everyone have to think and fuction the way you do. I do not believe i've set double standards here. I am only unhappy with christians not in their beliefs but in their actions. Which i believe i have and already did make myself clear on what i disliked. You see, you believed that everyone's beliefs have to be defended upon while i don't. Neither do i see ppl that do not defend their beliefs and i dislike them for doing that. Apparently your posts makes me feel that u dislike ppl or u felt that all beliefs shld be defended upon. But it is you who thinks that way. Not me. And as for the questions i've i mind about life, no one or no religion can give me a good answer on that yet. It could be due to my lack of knowledge in the respective religion but it could also be that they do not have the answers at all which is why i subscribe to being a free thinker which to my own understanding is someone who does not subscribe to one and only religious belief. Im here to understand more, not to get converted.dun u spot one inconsistency and paradox in the bible?
how can a planet the size of earth history was just 6000 years and created in just 6 days. use common sense.
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God can do it....><"
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Most question, certainly they do, but the tendency is to look for answers and ( n most likely to reaffirm what has been told to them, answers derived from someone or a book or beliefs that negate the possibility of one being rite!) They do not question beleifs, traditions, so on so forth and why? The fear of one’s sense of self is threatened cos what they have been identifying with or attached to could be merely props! a fiction, not a transpiring reality. Hence, the constant stance of being defensive and when it does not work, selective deception rears its ugly head and the last resort is to deflect by question another as opposing to facing what has been challenged> There is another type that questions, – they question and NOT look for answers but re-evaluate, examine and the understanding of what is/what is not when found to be misleading or erroneous simply drops away. The third type – simply being aware of …. , cos the latter is a synthesis of inner and outer. one can be religious and gravitate towards being spiritual. Religion, most are merely pointers to being spiritual. Religion (all) is learning and of course, for the seeker the possibility of it as being a device to being spiritual is there. For the follower, if one is sleepwalking – it is nothing but rituals after rituals aka repeating and referencing scriptures or … to reaffirm oneself. Spirituality is unlearning, not collecting, it is unlearning, a process where one unloads all the ’’rubbish’’. True or false all depends on where one is on the spectrum of learning/unleraning/relgion/spirituality It is only when one is being self-honest does it have meaning or will it make sense! Sadly, many delude themselves and assume that some ’’one’’ above is going to save them. If someone, something out there is assuming responsibility for ommissions or .... is it not delusion.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
dun u spot one inconsistency and paradox in the bible?
how can a planet the size of earth history was just 6000 years and created in just 6 days. use common sense.
Give me one good reason why God cannot do that.
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
i have not thought about some of the questions you asked me but that does not mean that i have not thought about my own set of beliefs. Same thing as those questions you ask you felt that it is relevant to answer but i felt that i do not need to answer or to know the answer of such questions to have a set of belief. And no i do not think badly of christians who do not defend or are unable to defend their beliefs. I believe that you assumed alot of things here and that not everyone have to think and fuction the way you do. I do not believe i've set double standards here. I am only unhappy with christians not in their beliefs but in their actions. Which i believe i have and already did make myself clear on what i disliked. You see, you believed that everyone's beliefs have to be defended upon while i don't. Neither do i see ppl that do not defend their beliefs and i dislike them for doing that. Apparently your posts makes me feel that u dislike ppl or u felt that all beliefs shld be defended upon. But it is you who thinks that way. Not me. And as for the questions i've i mind about life, no one or no religion can give me a good answer on that yet. It could be due to my lack of knowledge in the respective religion but it could also be that they do not have the answers at all which is why i subscribe to being a free thinker which to my own understanding is someone who does not subscribe to one and only religious belief. Im here to understand more, not to get converted.Like I said, the 5 questions I asked you are the STANDARD questions addressed by books on philosophy. Every worldview must address all these questions. I know you have many beliefs, but you also have a worldview, and your worldview must be able to answer these essential questions, or what some call the ultimate questions. If you haven't given any thought to them, it's about time you do. Consider this as a litmus test for your own belief system.
Why do you suppose I dislike people? I don't. But then again, there are obnoxious atheist trolls here who don't make themselves likeable. Anyway, what are the questions about life that you feel that no one or no religion can answer? Why don't you share the MOST pressing question or two? Let me try.
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Well so wad if they are standard questions? i tink the worldview only answers questions based on what that person thinks is important or he is seeking. If it does not matter to me how earth is formed and stuffs, my beliefs will not answer me on that. Unless those are religious beliefs you are talking about which im not. I do not think that it is about time that i should think about such things. I have more important issues on hand to ponder about rather than where did earth come from, how did we existed, afterlife issues and stuffs. Your questions to me is not something that i feel the need to and the obligation to search for such answers.
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
Well so wad if they are standard questions? i tink the worldview only answers questions based on what that person thinks is important or he is seeking. If it does not matter to me how earth is formed and stuffs, my beliefs will not answer me on that. Unless those are religious beliefs you are talking about which im not. I do not think that it is about time that i should think about such things. I have more important issues on hand to ponder about rather than where did earth come from, how did we existed, afterlife issues and stuffs. Your questions to me is not something that i feel the need to and the obligation to search for such answers.
It's a pity that you would gloss over and treat lightly (ignore) these standard questions that should be answered by one's worldview. All the serious philosophers treat these questions as essential and important. Your apathy is noted of course.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Give me one good reason why God cannot do that.
sure god can do whatever it wants in the bible, but we are not talking about the bible, we are talking about reality ie facts, truth. obviously you not been studying physics and cosmology. sure god can do wonders in the bible, just like superman can fly in DC comics and movies and cartoons
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god lives in the figment of human's imagination ....and why? because it was created and invented by man, thats why
so simple and easy to understand this. -
Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
sure god can do whatever it wants in the bible, but we are not talking about the bible, we are talking about reality ie facts, truth. obviously you not been studying physics and cosmology. sure god can do wonders in the bible, just like superman can fly in DC comics and movies and cartoons
Dude, when you are harping about the earth and 6,000 years, you not talking about Bible meh?
And who told you that the truth and reality is that the earth is NOT 6,000 years? Who you listen to? Scientists ya? But were they there to observe the earth being formed supposedly 4.5 billion years ago? Dating methods? Do you know the ASSUMPTIONS that go into them? You wanna talk about facts? First do you even know that facts are interpreted and do not speak for themselves? And that means worldviews are involved? You can stare at a rock or geological formation your whole life and nothing will tell you how old that is. See http://creation.com/why-most-scientists-believe-the-world-is-old
Obviously you have not kept up to date with creationist arguments and the evidence that points to a young earth.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
god lives in the figment of human's imagination ....and why? because it was created and invented by man, thats why
so simple and easy to understand this.Indeed, your explanation is so simplistic and so easy to understand, that it is a FALSE explanation! But of course we know that you simply ASSERT it without any evidence whatsoever.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Indeed, your explanation is so simplistic and so easy to understand, that it is a FALSE explanation! But of course we know that you simply ASSERT it without any evidence whatsoever.
go ask god and expound then. the existence of god is 50:50, it exists for you brethrens and it doesnt exist for those who doesnt believe. heads or tail since its 50:50
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
go ask god and expound then. the existence of god is 50:50, it exists for you brethrens and it doesnt exist for those who doesnt believe. heads or tail since its 50:50
Sorry dude, you are supposed to back up your assertion that humans invented God. Your fallacy is to assume that just because humans can invent many things, including gods and deities, that therefore the God of the Bible is also a human invention.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
go ask god and expound then. the existence of god is 50:50, it exists for you brethrens and it doesnt exist for those who doesnt believe. heads or tail since its 50:50
The fear of one’s sense of self is threatened cos what one have been identifying with or attached to could be merely props! a fiction, not a transpiring reality/existential reality. Hence, the constant stance of being defensive and when it does not work or is weak, selective deception rears its ugly head and the last resort is to deflect by questioning another or another's ..... as opposing to facing what has been challenged and looking to examine or intuit an .... Intellectual masturbation is so easy lah, visceral entails dropping and being vulnerable! I can think of a glass of water and till I partake of it by touching the glass and tasting the water, my thoughts are merely symbolic, reality-wise it has no meaning whatsover excepting in the head (psychological and maybe if i do get lucky (that is, others simply believe what I say and agree without partaking of it) and that seems to be the predicament of many who simply have not the guts to admit that I do not know and not willing to be self-honest! Ps - The whole problem as to whther god exists or not is cos human beings have prejudiced ideas, bigoted ideas as to it should or not should be. Simply, they have created god based on their own ideas and ... God, if he/she/? exists/not exists has no ideas. God may or may not have created man in his/??? own image, but this certainty is awash - man has created god in HIS/???? OWN IMAGE. Hence, the divisiveness and the proliferation of organzied religions. -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Sorry dude, you are supposed to back up your assertion that humans invented God. Your fallacy is to assume that just because humans can invent many things, including gods and deities, that therefore the God of the Bible is also a human invention.
you still dun get it eh boy. go read between the lines boy. my answer is already there, just that you just dun get it. maybe its your selective deduction at work again.
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tell me who wrote the bible? was it god?
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
you still dun get it eh boy. go read between the lines boy. my answer is already there, just that you just dun get it. maybe its your selective deduction at work again.
If must read between your lines to get the answer, it means you never answer la! Duh. Just admit that all you had were mere ASSERTIONS and POLEMIC.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
tell me who wrote the bible? was it god?
Man wrote as they were inspired of God. Scriptures are "God-breathed".
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Man wrote as they were inspired of God. Scriptures are "God-breathed".
whatever, its still humans right. so am I right to say it was written and invented by man?
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
whatever, its still humans right. so am I right to say it was written and invented by man?
How can you be correct when you failed to deal honestly with my whole answer? Why do you leave out God's part? -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
How can you be correct when you failed to deal honestly with my whole answer? Why do you leave out God's part?
just ignore them. no matter how much we say about VPI, these pple just can't understand
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Originally posted by SBS n SMRT:
just ignore them. no matter how much we say about VPI, these pple just can't understand
of course I would problem understanding irrational and inconsistencies and paradoxes aplenty in the bible, full of loopholes and flaws from the outset. thank goodness I am not a xtian. even if I am, I wont last long cos the more I question, the more illogic and incoherence I will find.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
of course I would problem understanding irrational and inconsistencies and paradoxes aplenty in the bible, full of loopholes and flaws from the outset. thank goodness I am not a xtian. even if I am, I wont last long cos the more I question, the more illogic and incoherence I will find.
Again the polemical assertions devoid of evidential support.