Technical Questions About National Service
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The reservist cycle is 13 years and it applies to all except those PES E personnel doing clerical work, which might be different.Originally posted by Uncle_MooMoo:Thks all, it's invaluable to giving me a clearer picture.
Moxie:
What are the conditions of being enlisted in a mono-intake then? From what I gather, it's basically people with lower-educational qualifications aye?
Also you were mentioning they'd be doing reservist for 13years, is that the same as non-mono-intake batches?
NSPC? What's that, is it a government or military branch? As for attainable cert or not, yes it's possible to get a cert out of it but it's probably gonna take longer than the time for me to be enlisted. Unless I go abroad but from what I read, seems like I'd need a huge bond to do that. So I guess I kindda fall under PSLE then and would be taken into Mono-Intake? Any way to do some clarifications with the appropriate government branch?
Also, why are some guys enlisted when they're 16, is it their choice? Thks for the command list, helps a bunch.
Kudos for taking the time to help.
NSPC stands for National Servicemen Personnel Centre or something. After ORD, they will hold your particulars, details, postings, but I'm not sure what its function before ORD. I know as I received my reservist posting as 'NSPC Holding List' and I am still waiting for my unit posting.
During NSF period, CPC (Central Personnel Centre or something) will hold your details, inform units on promotion, ORD. Anyone who knows more can contribute.
Majority are enlisted at around age 18 as they would need to finish during A Levels and Polytechnic education. Those who enlist at 16 volunteer to do so after their O Levels. -
juz to add on to the drill commands
STATIONARY DRILLS
"Hormat Ke-Hadapan/Ke-Kanan/Ke-Kiri, Hormat" Salute To The Front/Right/Left
"X-Langkah Ke-Kanan/Ke-Kiri, Gerak" Take X-Steps To The Right/Left (Max. 7 steps)
"X-Langkah Ke-Hadapan/Ke-Belakang, Gerak" Take X-Steps To The Front/Back (Max. 3 steps)
"Barisan Hadapan/Tengah, Dari Kanan, Ber-Dua Bilang" Front/Centre Rank From The Right, In Twos, Number Off
"Akan Jadikan Dua/Tiga/Enam Barisan, Gerak" Squad Will Form Two/Three/Six Ranks
"Dalam Bukar/Tutup Barisan, Ke-Kanan Lurus" In Open/Close Order, Right Dress
"Bersurai" Dismiss
"Be-Tulkan Barisan" Front Dressing
MARCHING DRILLS
"Maju" Forward (Done On Hentak Kaki Cepat Hentak)
"Dari Kanan/Kiri, Belok Kanan/Kiri, Cepat Jalan" From The Right/Left, Right/Left Wheel, Quick March
"Pandang Ke-Kanan/Ke-Kiri/Ke-Hadapan, Pandang" Eyes Right/Left/Front
"Memberi Hormat Ke-Kanan/Ke-Kiri/Ke-Hadapan, Hormat" Saluting On The March To The Right/Left/Front, Salute
"Hormat Memerima Barang Ke-Hadapan Hormat" Saluting On The March To The Front To Receive Articles, Salute
"Ke-Kanan/Ke-Kiri/Ke-Belakang Pusing" Right/Left/About Turn
"Tukar Langkah Tukar" Changing Step On The March, Change Step
THE "MEMARAS" - SIZING
This set of commands will size the squad/contingent in the way that the shortest person will be at the centre and the tallest at the sides.
"Yang Tinggi Ke-Kanan, Rendah Ke-Kiri, Dalam Satu Barisan, Gerak" Tallest On The Right, Shortest On The Left, In A Single Rank, Size
"Dari Ka-Kanan, Ber-Dua Bilang" From The Right, In Twos, Number Off
"Nombor Gangil Satu Langkah Ke-Hadapan, Nombor Genap Satu Langkah Ke-Belakang, Gerak" Odd Numbers One Pace Forward, Even Numbers One Pace Backwards, Move
"Orang Yang Di Sebelah Kanan Diam, Barisan Kanan Dan Kiri Pusing" Standfast The Right Hand Man, Ranks Right And Left Turn
"Sekuad Akan Jadikan Dua/Tiga/Enam Barisan, Cepat Jalan" Squad Will Form Two/Three/Six Ranks, Quick March
"Sediya" Attention
"Ke-Kanan Lurus" Right Dress
"Pandang Ke-Hadapan, Pandang" Eyes Front
P.S. i haven been to NS yet, so i dunno whether the above drills are done by the SAF anot, in one way or another...... these are those i learnt in my UG, including those already mentioned by Moxie.....
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What are the conditions of being enlisted in a mono-intake then?
Frankly, it's a trade secret; the only such hint I've ever come across was from an old NS primer. (You should receive such handbooks & pamphlets before enlistment). It says: "The SAF matches servicemen with vocations according to its organizational needs. The following points are considered in the designating of vocations: (a) educational qualifications; (b) working experience; (c) physical characteristics; (d) physical fitness; (e) the SAF's organizational needs; & (f) unit commander's recommendations."
I usually regurgitate these whenever people ask me how the army vocations are assigned, since they make general sense: (a) is self-explanatory since sophisticated equipment may require certain aptitude; (b) is why some civilian-trained enlistees get arrowed to so-&-so technical vocations; (c) is the basis of the PES classification which is based on the British Pulheems system (look it up); (d) is related to NAPFA scores & combat fitness & any obesity issues; (e) is all about replacing the ORD-ing old birds; & (f) is the DIs' & peers' evaluation of a recruit's BMT performance itself.
The popular story is that every category except (f) is assigned a number for quick computer-generating of vocational deployment. I dunno if that's true. But the recent Commando Dunking Trial revealed that each vocation/course has its own FFI (Fit For Instruction) criteria to be medically checked against & cleared, as an additional step.
Unlike their Tekong counterparts, mono-intakers are basically assigned vocations before doing BMT. Of course, some of them won't be retained on after recruit training; those who're posted out usually land in service vocations (my understanding).From what I gather, it's basically people with lower-educational qualifications aye?
Generally, yes, but it's also no longer the PSLE stereotype you seem to have in mind. There's still a few such dropouts, but IMO they tend to surface more with the SCDF now (usually Malays who switched to madrasahs from young). Today's mono-intakers tend to be of ITE/NTC-2, 'N' Levels & some 'O' Levels ilk, & of course their dropouts.
FWIW The mono-intake batch I taught in 1988 had a very interesting mix; the gunner recruits included a tycoon's son (who helped finance the POP function), some fledging business owners (not just copywatch touters, mind you), a couple of secret society pai kia's (as the DI's were discreetly advised), a 17-year-old volunteer enlistee (cuz he had nothing better to do) &, with another battery, a father-to-be.
Put it this way I - Historically, the serviceman status is equal for those allocated to the various SAF mono-intakes and the SPF and the SCDF and the former SBMT in Nee Soon Camp (now supposedly BMTC School 2). Only the service-earmarked SBMT trainees wouldn't be combat-fit graded as the others. All other enlistees head for Tekong - formerly known as Infantry Training Depot (ITD) - where they compete for a chance to become junior commanders &, failing to do so, get assigned a more sophisticated combat post like signaller or pioneer or gunnery assistant, etc.
Put it this way II - Who is more prestigious: a mono-intake LCP who wears the Khaki beret & the Guards Tab, or a Tekong-grad/signals-trained CPL who serves as a runner-cum-coffee boy with a Brigade unit?Also you were mentioning they'd be doing reservist for 13years, is that the same as non-mono intake batches?
The combat-arms outfits do reservist together - that's why they changed the name to Operational-Ready NSmen. The Training-Wing & Formation-School NSFs will rejoin these frontline units too after ORD, & often have to earn respect from scratch. Not sure about the combat-support units (supply, transport, medical, engineering, maintainence, etc.) but I don't think so - it's likely their NSmen would be placed on a "holding list". Speaking of which, there's no reservist MP's or PTI's either; they all revert back to infantry after ORD. The PDF has a number of operational second-line units that has no direct roots to NSF counterparts; it's likely many such "auxiliary" troops will get sent there & be re-trained.Any way to do some clarifications with the appropriate government branch?
IMO You can manipulate the SAF system but not in this stage. Try your luck:
http://app.sgdi.gov.sg/listing_expand.asp?agency_subtype=dept&agency_id=0000000390Also, why are some guys enlisted when they're 16, is it their choice?
You can choose to enlist earlier, provided you pass the medical & physical tests. Never come across anyone as young as 16, though. 17-year-old, yes. -
pika1987,
Nah, IMO these "advanced" drills apply more if you kena the SAF provost or the police force.
Say, do you know the command for the so-called funeral drill, phonetically called "tonk-san senja ta" (or something like that)? My RSM repeatedly drilled an improvisary Guard of Honor contingent for 3 straight days, after a battery mate of mine who got killed in a training accident. -
u bet i dunno.... i nv learnt funeral drills in UG!Originally posted by Moxie:pika1987,
Nah, IMO these "advanced" drills apply more if you kena the SAF provost or the police force.
Say, do you know the command for the so-called funeral drill, phonetically called "tonk-san senja ta" (or something like that)? My RSM repeatedly drilled an improvisary Guard of Honor contingent for 3 straight days, after a battery mate of mine who got killed in a training accident.
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Originally posted by Moxie:
Man.....they really did good.....
Here's an extensive listing of Malay drill commands, compiled by a very enthusiastic NPCC team. Gosh, I don't even recognize a lot of them!
http://www.chs.edu.sg/npcc/notes/drill.html
A NSF should familiarize himself with only the following, as long as he's not tasked for form part of a NDP contingent ;-) -
FOR STANCE (with or without rifle)
[b]"Sedia" Attention
"Senang Diri" Stand at ease
"Rehatkan Diri" Stand easy
"Kekanan Lurus" Right Dress
"Pandang Kehadapan Pandang" Eyes Front
"Kekanan/Kekiri/Kebelakang Pusing" Right/Left/About Turn
"Diam" Steady
"Semula" As you were
"Keluar Baris" Fall out
FOR MARCHING
"Dari Kiri/Kanan Cepat Jalan" By the Left/Right Quick March
"Dari Kiri/Kanan Cepat Lari" By the Left/Right/Front Double
"Hentak Kaki Cepat Hentak" Quick Mark Time
"Kiri/Kanan Belok" Left/Right Wheel
"Berhenti" Halt
FOR RIFLES
"Rusok Senja Ta" Shoulder Arm
"Turun Senja Ta" Order Arm
"Hormat Senja Ta" Present Arm
"Julang Senja Ta" High Port
"Tatang Senja Ta" For Inspection Port Arms
"Lepaskan Sepering" Ease Springs
Okay, make that total 20 ~lol~
A few of the above commands can be elaboratedly prefaced, paticularly with turns, in which case I told my less-familiar recruits to listen out only for last part. For example:
"Bergerak Kekanan, Bertiga Tiga, Kekanan Pusing" Move to the Right, In threes, Right turn
"Menghadap Kebelakang/Kehadapan, Kebelakang Pusing" Retire/Advance, About turn
One more full command, except it's usually done at the end of a rifle-range shoot & thus completely word-associable:
"Untop Di-perrksa Tatang Senja Ta" For Inspection Port Arms
Verbally, the SAF style is to slowly "slang" the drill command out into:
(a) the introductory part (the whole stuff at the beginning),
(b) the warning part (dragging out a word to signal the impending 3rd part),
(c) the execution part (sharp burst at the end word/syllable of the command).
So, "Hormat Senja Ta" becomes "Hormat..Senja-a-a-a-a-ah..[pause]..TAH!" Even a Hokkien peng could predict what to do here, since he would already be in shoulder-arms position - & could phonetically recognized the command for present-arms (plus having countlessly rote-practiced the latter drill beforehand).[/b]
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off topic....
lets say Mr X is a diploma holder...
Case 1...
he gets posted to SCDF to do his NS....he wants to sign on as a paramedic specialist during his SCDF BMT...how does he do it?
Case 2...
he gets posted to SPF to do his NS...he wants to sign on and wants to be in the SOC after his training stint in TRACOM...how does he do it?
and what are his chances of getting what he wants on the respective 2 cases? -
Kudos.Thanks for helping out man, it's interesting to note the allocation of service and technical vocationalised NSFs to the holding list or PDF units.PES status might then further play a part in filtering out those who are able to be re-trained to double up as a combatant IMHO.Is this realistically possible?Originally posted by Moxie:Frankly, it's a trade secret; the only such hint I've ever come across was from an old NS primer. (You should receive such handbooks & pamphlets before enlistment). It says: "The SAF matches servicemen with vocations according to its organizational needs. The following points are considered in the designating of vocations: (a) educational qualifications; (b) working experience; (c) physical characteristics; (d) physical fitness; (e) the SAF's organizational needs; & (f) unit commander's recommendations."
I usually regurgitate these whenever people ask me how the army vocations are assigned, since they make general sense: (a) is self-explanatory since sophisticated equipment may require certain aptitude; (b) is why some civilian-trained enlistees get arrowed to so-&-so technical vocations; (c) is the basis of the PES classification which is based on the British Pulheems system (look it up); (d) is related to NAPFA scores & combat fitness & any obesity issues; (e) is all about replacing the ORD-ing old birds; & (f) is the DIs' & peers' evaluation of a recruit's BMT performance itself.
The popular story is that every category except (f) is assigned a number for quick computer-generating of vocational deployment. I dunno if that's true. But the recent Commando Dunking Trial revealed that each vocation/course has its own FFI (Fit For Instruction) criteria to be medically checked against & cleared, as an additional step.
Unlike their Tekong counterparts, mono-intakers are basically assigned vocations before doing BMT. Of course, some of them won't be retained on after recruit training; those who're posted out usually land in service vocations (my understanding).
quote:From what I gather, it's basically people with lower-educational qualifications aye?
Generally, yes, but it's also no longer the PSLE stereotype you seem to have in mind. There's still a few such dropouts, but IMO they tend to surface more with the SCDF now (usually Malays who switched to madrasahs from young). Today's mono-intakers tend to be of ITE/NTC-2, 'N' Levels & some 'O' Levels ilk, & of course their dropouts.
FWIW The mono-intake batch I taught in 1988 had a very interesting mix; the gunner recruits included a tycoon's son (who helped finance the POP function), some fledging business owners (not just copywatch touters, mind you), a couple of secret society pai kia's (as the DI's were discreetly advised), a 17-year-old volunteer enlistee (cuz he had nothing better to do) &, with another battery, a father-to-be.
Put it this way I - Historically, the serviceman status is equal for those allocated to the various SAF mono-intakes and the SPF and the SCDF and the former SBMT in Nee Soon Camp (now supposedly BMTC School 2). Only the service-earmarked SBMT trainees wouldn't be combat-fit graded as the others. All other enlistees head for Tekong - formerly known as Infantry Training Depot (ITD) - where they compete for a chance to become junior commanders &, failing to do so, get assigned a more sophisticated combat post like signaller or pioneer or gunnery assistant, etc.
Put it this way II - Who is more prestigious: a mono-intake LCP who wears the Khaki beret & the Guards Tab, or a Tekong-grad/signals-trained CPL who serves as a runner-cum-coffee boy with a Brigade unit?
quote:Also you were mentioning they'd be doing reservist for 13years, is that the same as non-mono intake batches?
The combat-arms outfits do reservist together - that's why they changed the name to Operational-Ready NSmen. The Training-Wing & Formation-School NSFs will rejoin these frontline units too after ORD, & often have to earn respect from scratch. Not sure about the combat-support units (supply, transport, medical, engineering, maintainence, etc.) but I don't think so - it's likely their NSmen would be placed on a "holding list". Speaking of which, there's no reservist MP's or PTI's either; they all revert back to infantry after ORD. The PDF has a number of operational second-line units that has no direct roots to NSF counterparts; it's likely many such "auxiliary" troops will get sent there & be re-trained.
quote:Any way to do some clarifications with the appropriate government branch?
IMO You can manipulate the SAF system but not in this stage. Try your luck:
http://app.sgdi.gov.sg/listing_expand.asp?agency_subtype=dept&agency_id=0000000390
quote:Also, why are some guys enlisted when they're 16, is it their choice?
You can choose to enlist earlier, provided you pass the medical & physical tests. Never come across anyone as young as 16, though. 17-year-old, yes. -
sidestep1984's "once in 2 years" comment is instructive. Even as I rate them to be equal in recruit status with those for the other services & the former SBMT, it remains that mono-intakes don't churn out soldiers like the other versions (or like the Tekong cohorts).
If you think about it, there's probably only 15-18 frontline outfits who recruit via this system. (I'm not updated on whether the FDS units & DA BNs have mono-intakes.) These units have also reduced its combat strength by about 10-25% since the '90s - eg. 3 rifle companies instead of 4; 4-man Primus detachment instead of 8 for the 120mm mortars; deactivation of 2 GDS, etc.
I'm gonna throw out some unsubstantiated numbers here. Let's say each mono-intake conscripts around 200-600 per BMT intake, & an average of 3300-5000 (based on annual 13,000-20,000) youths enlist every 3 months of a year. "Seasonally" spread out, that means only 2 - maybe 3 - mono-intakes being conducted at any one time, irregularly occuring among the various Formations. An enlistee would then have - quick calcuation - between 12-18% chance of being allocated to these BMTs, all else being equal.
In other words, it's not that frequent. Meanwhile, the BMTC absorption continues relentlessly .... -
i see i see....Originally posted by Moxie:sidestep1984's "once in 2 years" comment is instructive. Even as I rate them to be equal in recruit status with those for the other services & the former SBMT, it remains that mono-intakes don't churn out soldiers like the other versions (or like the Tekong cohorts).
If you think about it, there's probably only 15-18 frontline outfits who recruit via this system. (I'm not updated on whether the FDS units & DA BNs have mono-intakes.) These units have also reduced its combat strength by about 10-25% since the '90s - eg. 3 rifle companies instead of 4; 4-man Primus detachment instead of 8 for the 120mm mortars; deactivation of 2 GDS, etc.
I'm gonna throw out some unsubstantiated numbers here. Let's say each mono-intake conscripts around 200-600 per BMT intake, & an average of 3300-5000 (based on annual 13,000-20,000) youths enlist every 3 months of a year. "Seasonally" spread out, that means only 2 - maybe 3 - mono-intakes being conducted at any one time, irregularly occuring among the various Formations. An enlistee would then have - quick calcuation - between 12-18% chance of being allocated to these BMTs, all else being equal.
In other words, it's not that frequent. Meanwhile, the BMTC absorption continues relentlessly ....
i still see that some units have intakes every once or two years...i guess when there is a demand in soldiers...they'll do a mono-intake....onli the people in manpower would noe eh.... -
Thks Moxie and everyone for taking the time to type out everything in detail. Think I pretty much know what's going on now.
Just another question though, is being unable to swim gonna cause alot of trouble during my NS enlistment such as extension for swimming lessons etc.?
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During my BMT, there was a session where the platoon went to the swimming pool. Those who were not excused swimming had to swim 50 or 100 metres. Those who could not swim had to attend swimming lessons.Originally posted by Uncle_MooMoo:Just another question though, is being unable to swim gonna cause alot of trouble during my NS enlistment such as extension for swimming lessons etc.? -
Allow me to shamelessly spam my website here... www.geocities.com/singaporeparadesOriginally posted by Moxie:pika1987,
Nah, IMO these "advanced" drills apply more if you kena the SAF provost or the police force.
Say, do you know the command for the so-called funeral drill, phonetically called "tonk-san senja ta" (or something like that)? My RSM repeatedly drilled an improvisary Guard of Honor contingent for 3 straight days, after a battery mate of mine who got killed in a training accident.
It has a run-through of the various ceremonies and drills. -
Just another question though, is being unable to swim gonna cause alot of trouble during my NS enlistment such as extension for swimming lessons etc.?
They'll teach the non-swimmers in BMT, which can be somewhat of a good thing cuz the swimmers during these sessions usually kena circuit training (the worst humiliating of the Tekong tekaning during my time).
But it's gonna as as much a personal-confidence test as the 50m, as I recall, which you're obliged to swim to pass. There's only so much rote practising of the breaststroke possible, since sooner of later you'll be asked to jump into the deeper pool & then told to swim to the other side. If you're lucky, you'll be allowed to do that initially on Lane 1 or 8, where you could grap the concrete edge if you lost steam, momemtum or plain confidence.
I was a non-swimmer then as well, but wasn't afforded such luxury. 8 weeks of treading chest-deep water, with a couple of make-up sessions (including one memorable Friday night when the whole Camp 1 of 24 platoons got to book out early for the long weekend except us) due to training reschedulings. Then suddenly, I'm told to swim across the length at the deeper Pool on Lane 5 - panicked midway & almost drowned. 2nd attempt was at Lane 1 - ran out of steam midway & reached for the edge, but the instructor kicked my hand way & I went down again. I got to rest for the remaining of that session off ~lol~ Came the test, & I just told myself to keep calm, methodically sustain the swim strokes & pace myself. I passed the test. -
Not really in every coy as during my time in Tekong, those non-swimmers goes for swimming while the others stayed at bunk to have their admin time...Originally posted by Moxie:They'll teach the non-swimmers in BMT, which can be somewhat of a good thing cuz the swimmers during these sessions usually kena circuit training (the worst humiliating of the Tekong tekaning during my time). -
sorry for hijacking.
about my friend.. he finishes his a levels in JUNE 'o5(cause he's not doing it in singapore)... technically he's not due to enlist in the beginning of 'o6 right but he wants to go to the armed forces badly, so since he's finished with his studies, can he enlist early? and if so, can he choose to go into army, or does point #1 still apply? -
AFAIK, the posting of personnel is done on by a computer system. It's kind of like a lucky draw. The system will know where they is a high shortfall (due to people ORDing soon) in a particular unit/vocation and then post people there automatically. So a lot of one batch of recruits may be posted to say infantry and another batch to medics. There's not much control here.
I know the system uses your medical status, educational qualifications and other factors when deciding your posting.
There have been rumours that your posting is already pre-selected for you upon enlistment unless u go out-of-course or someone intervenes and pulls u out (eg band, MDC, etc)
Anthony -
those non-swimmers goes for swimming while the others stayed at bunk to have their admin time...
Wah, welfare dah. Guess the low priority is still the same after all these years. Note for non-swimmers: this is one of the times a conscript learns it's best he helps himself, cuz there's only something like 4-6 lessons during BMT with sometimes non-personalized instruction. Then it's a dry-run (ooh, bad pun) before taking the test.
The circuit training I witnessed involved 20-25 minutes of push-ups, sit-ups, duck-walks, etc. from station to station. Then, with arching muscles & fatigued bodies, the swimmers were told to complete a length. Quite kiam-chye attitude.
Unit-based swimming was rarer (something like once a month) & it's supposed to be recreational, but it turned out the PTIs who followed us must do something, right? So my colleagues were ordered to bring our No. 4's along, to either swim in them or to tow them along. No more hazing like BMT, but the circuit trainings continued.about my friend.. he finishes his a levels in JUNE 'o5(cause he's not doing it in singapore)... technically he's not due to enlist in the beginning of 'o6 right but he wants to go to the armed forces badly, so since he's finished with his studies, can he enlist early? and if so, can he choose to go into army, or does point #1 still apply?
http://www.google.com.sg/search?q=cache:gY4q3z6kcUQJ:content.miw.com.sg/Mindef/Static/NSRegistration/Pdf/VEES.pdf+enlist+early&hl=en -
Cheers.
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Females who sign on would most likely be in which school at Tekong?
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Orion school 2Originally posted by 01024G:Females who sign on would most likely be in which school at Tekong? -
most of the time in school 2. i never seen female recruits in school 1 before. but which company is hard to say, cos it will always rotates from company to comapnay.Originally posted by 01024G:Females who sign on would most likely be in which school at Tekong?
during my time it was Leopard company and Whisky company. -
Hey,if took A-level as a private candidate,can still qualify for SISPEC/OCS?
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A level holders who dont have the right stuff arent even given a chance to go to command-level schools...Originally posted by FiReDuKe:Hey,if took A-level as a private candidate,can still qualify for SISPEC/OCS?
dont think too much uh.... -
most important u must have what it takes to be a commander. they look for leadership qualities 1st. last time my platoon got 1 guy only secondary school education, in the end, go to SISPEC.Originally posted by FiReDuKe:Hey,if took A-level as a private candidate,can still qualify for SISPEC/OCS?