Can WO take up commission officer appointments?
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WOs with degree?
What kind of degree they get? I think a distance learning degree is of no value in the SAF, sometimes in part of the pte sector as well.
In my opinion, WOs are BTC ppl who stay on cos they can't find another job which pay them as well.
Imagine a BTC WO who earns 4-5k per month by backstabbing and angkat bolla? Pui!
I still prefer to take orders from experienced and good WOs and officers. -
you said Colors Party what,in the parade square the RSM and the sergeant majors are the biggest fxxks....especially those Colors ppl, tekan left right center from July till August for SAF Day and NDP...dame stress..Originally posted by Shrapnel:i dun understand... what upperstudy's upperstudy... ?
actually up to MWO is quite a respectable rank. should be about CPT equivalent, although officially a SWO rank is still of lower rank than 2LT. I guess that is why the MWO saluted the 2LT then..
I saw before during a NO.1 parade the SWO typically yell and screw the 2LTs who were marching with the colors... no give face.. things should change. i mean its time specs WOs and Officers work collaboratively in a parallel partnership fashion rather than top down.
contacts! cool
if any one have witnessed a sublatern parade conducted by the Unit's RSM for the units junior officers, its more like a defaulters parade.
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2LTs who think their 9 months of OCS training beats 30 years of operational experience of a MWO and above are not fit to wear the rank and hold the responsibility of a commissioned officer, let alone lead men and answer for their life or death situation.This should be drilled into cadets from the very first day.An officer is a leader who walks the talk, goes in first and leaves not until the last man has gotten out.He will go down fighting and protecting his force, but will not act recklessly in endangering his life or the lives of his men.He will act above what is required of him in work and be an exemplary soldier for his subordinates to respect.An officer who uses his rank and position to empower his troops and inspire them to better work performance is more adualted than one who seeks to control and bend his men to his stubborn will.
Haha.My two cents worth.Sounds like a oath right? -
Well...Originally posted by LazerLordz:2LTs who think their 9 months of OCS training beats 30 years of operational experience of a MWO and above are not fit to wear the rank and hold the responsibility of a commissioned officer, let alone lead men and answer for their life or death situation.This should be drilled into cadets from the very first day.An officer is a leader who walks the talk, goes in first and leaves not until the last man has gotten out.He will go down fighting and protecting his force, but will not act recklessly in endangering his life or the lives of his men.He will act above what is required of him in work and be an exemplary soldier for his subordinates to respect.An officer who uses his rank and position to empower his troops and inspire them to better work performance is more adualted than one who seeks to control and bend his men to his stubborn will.
Haha.My two cents worth.Sounds like a oath right? 
Sounds like 
I think it was taken outta some where.....cant remember where 
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Just a qn...are you or Sharpnel in the maintenance field by any chance?Originally posted by LazerLordz:You've hit the nail on the head.Outsourcing is good for peacetime, but when war comes, do we have the critical mass required to sustain the supporting operations we have to give to the warm bodies in the field so that they might remain warm and not turn stiff an cold?Best way to balance both demands might be to create a partnership with our military engineers and their commercial equivalent.Or improve the instructional methods and up the educational requirements of regulars so that each person can subsume more than one role and be a "hub" from which OMers in the field can turn to and learn instead of having too many junior SMES running around with nothing to do in peacetime. -
LOL... alomost... i was a clerk in a maintenance unitOriginally posted by deathscythe99:Just a qn...are you or Sharpnel in the maintenance field by any chance? -
mechanic here...
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true... esp part time degree from informatics LOLOriginally posted by Einstein99:WOs with degree?
What kind of degree they get? I think a distance learning degree is of no value in the SAF, sometimes in part of the pte sector as well.
In my opinion, WOs are BTC ppl who stay on cos they can't find another job which pay them as well.
Imagine a BTC WO who earns 4-5k per month by backstabbing and angkat bolla? Pui!
I still prefer to take orders from experienced and good WOs and officers.
what i mean is... if the WO has put in hard work and got himself a recognised degree... eg an engineering degree from NTU and it is related to his vocation, then he should be able to command a better pay or a higher appt, or an appt that is reserved for engineering officers.
for now, my guess is probably his boss will say "Good! Keep up the good work! with a degree u have proven urself to have an aptitude for time management, analytical skills etc etc! thus u will have a faster promotion than ur peers"
there is just no room for degree holder WOs, or WOs who aspire to attain something more in life. of cos, he can go get a degree and hang the paper by his bed for self gratification LOL... but then... eventually it is still a dollars and cents issue..
lagi better, maybe SAF should start to think of allowing degree scolarships for potential WOs. -
agree!Originally posted by LazerLordz:2LTs who think their 9 months of OCS training beats 30 years of operational experience of a MWO and above are not fit to wear the rank and hold the responsibility of a commissioned officer, let alone lead men and answer for their life or death situation.This should be drilled into cadets from the very first day.An officer is a leader who walks the talk, goes in first and leaves not until the last man has gotten out.He will go down fighting and protecting his force, but will not act recklessly in endangering his life or the lives of his men.He will act above what is required of him in work and be an exemplary soldier for his subordinates to respect.An officer who uses his rank and position to empower his troops and inspire them to better work performance is more adualted than one who seeks to control and bend his men to his stubborn will.
Haha.My two cents worth.Sounds like a oath right?
i think its quite a paradox... SWO rank lower than 2LT but SWO is definitely more experienced than the 2LT. perhaps there should be a rank overlap... like 2LT equivalent to 2WO and so on, so an SWO is about a MAJ equivalent... like what deathscythe mention... and IN paper... that should clear any doubts about 2LTs trying to wield his sword of honor over any baton. -
The British Army views capable WOs as leaders and SMEs in their field and givs them appointments which allow their capabilities to shine through.Most officers would defer to a WO in an area where the latter is more qualified.Originally posted by Shrapnel:true... esp part time degree from informatics LOL
what i mean is... if the WO has put in hard work and got himself a recognised degree... eg an engineering degree from NTU and it is related to his vocation, then he should be able to command a better pay or a higher appt, or an appt that is reserved for engineering officers.
for now, my guess is probably his boss will say "Good! Keep up the good work! with a degree u have proven urself to have an aptitude for time management, analytical skills etc etc! thus u will have a faster promotion than ur peers"
there is just no room for degree holder WOs, or WOs who aspire to attain something more in life. of cos, he can go get a degree and hang the paper by his bed for self gratification LOL... but then... eventually it is still a dollars and cents issue..
lagi better, maybe SAF should start to think of allowing degree scolarships for potential WOs. -
Erm... if so then what for retain the WO ranks? Might as well promote MSG directly to 2LT rite?Originally posted by Shrapnel:agree!
i think its quite a paradox... SWO rank lower than 2LT but SWO is definitely more experienced than the 2LT. perhaps there should be a rank overlap... like 2LT equivalent to 2WO and so on, so an SWO is about a MAJ equivalent... like what deathscythe mention... and IN paper... that should clear any doubts about 2LTs trying to wield his sword of honor over any baton.
But i certainly agree that the WOs deserve respect for their experience in their particular fields and i believe the majority of officers feel the same way too. Personally I have always felt very awkward to be saluted and called sir by someone who's probably as old as my dad and so laojiao, though thankfully that didn't happen very often.
Of course there's always the occasional power-hungry 'one bar general' trying to turn the tables on his former superiors. But these are black sheeps lar..
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Nice to hear that
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I cringed once when i heard my 2IC, a CPT, calling a SWO in my unit by his name, while my OC, a much senior CPT, calls him Encik..
In anyway, that 2IC cmi one.... -
Yes warrant officiers might be lowly educated compared to those comissioned ones but i believes their educational standards are improving also so in the future we might see a wo with a degree.Originally posted by Einstein99:WOs with degree?
What kind of degree they get? I think a distance learning degree is of no value in the SAF, sometimes in part of the pte sector as well.
In my opinion, WOs are BTC ppl who stay on cos they can't find another job which pay them as well.
Imagine a BTC WO who earns 4-5k per month by backstabbing and angkat bolla? Pui!
I still prefer to take orders from experienced and good WOs and officers. -
Precisely.It's about respecting those more senior than you in many aspects except the cloth on your shoulders.Originally posted by laurence82:I cringed once when i heard my 2IC, a CPT, calling a SWO in my unit by his name, while my OC, a much senior CPT, calls him Encik..
In anyway, that 2IC cmi one.... -
hmm.. i think in time to come the 2IC will call him encik... perhaps he still newbieOriginally posted by laurence82:I cringed once when i heard my 2IC, a CPT, calling a SWO in my unit by his name, while my OC, a much senior CPT, calls him Encik..
In anyway, that 2IC cmi one.... 
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LOL... power hungry 'one bar general'....Originally posted by cornyfish2000:Erm... if so then what for retain the WO ranks? Might as well promote MSG directly to 2LT rite?
But i certainly agree that the WOs deserve respect for their experience in their particular fields and i believe the majority of officers feel the same way too. Personally I have always felt very awkward to be saluted and called sir by someone who's probably as old as my dad and so laojiao, though thankfully that didn't happen very often.
Of course there's always the occasional power-hungry 'one bar general' trying to turn the tables on his former superiors. But these are black sheeps lar..
dunno who invented the two tier hierachy... i think its akin to commercial world... like perhaps a chief engineer in a company will never get a chance to dabble in management unless he get himself an MBA...
in a way i think the officers are the management level.
also the difference i guess is the responsibility the officer shoulders... his spec or WO cock up its still the officer who answers... and therefore officers would always be panic station to make sure things are right, and the experienced WOs would be the middle man to make sure specs carry out the orders right.
in the US navy, there is also a grp called Limited Duty Officers (LDO). They run parallel with warrant officers but instead of being subject matter experts, they perform more of management roles. They are still of lower rank than officers though. wonder if this LDO concept can be applied in SAF -
Could work
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CPT is no longer a newbie....Originally posted by Shrapnel:hmm.. i think in time to come the 2IC will call him encik... perhaps he still newbie -
nay... if the CPT is a degree holder most likely he only has one yr job experience in his serviceOriginally posted by laurence82:CPT is no longer a newbie.... 