Armour unit
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2004, july. I went for my last ICT ( 10th ICT ) and taking part in a major local ex: EX-Mo***D*** and was at NeeSoon camp SOCE lake taking part in river crossing ex. At the training shelter, I was sitting wif more than 20 malays from CE.... I am from signal unit.Originally posted by Gordonator:SCE have malay? unless u count the drivers/storeman. but i've never see before malay specialists or officers in SCE.
ok correctly speaking there's a malay warrant officers in DETC. the only malay WO in SCE i've seen so far. -
The plain and simple truth is that Malays are generally slackers.
That's a bunch of croc, & shame on you for perpetuating a negative stereotype.
1stly, how does that reconcile with the fact that it's generally the Malays who peopled the uniformed groups when we were under British rule (pre-War & during BMA)? They're no Ghurkas, but on the whole took well to regimented life - better than the quarrelsome Chinese.
2ndly, local textbooks don't touch on this, but have you any idea how culturally dislocating it was an entire community (tens of thousands) to urbanize within a decade (let alone a generational timeframe) from their kampong roots? It wasn't always a smooth transition for the Malays who chose to stay on here after Separation; many of these less fortunate Baby-boomers (including Chinese too) ended up alienated during the '70s, taking refuge in hedonism & drugs, & the latter was when the "slacker" impression got associated with the Malays. -
its 2005 now....thats y...fudgester and I said that it is the majority....the minority still works hard...attitudes changed when the Govt didnt admit malays to do their NS...and when they allowed malays to do their ns in the army...there seems to have a change of malay 'culture' unlike the natural 'warriors' of the past...they tend to receive a different breed....Originally posted by Moxie:That's a bunch of croc, & shame on you for perpetuating a negative stereotype.
1stly, how does that reconcile with the fact that it's generally the Malays who peopled the uniformed groups when we were under British rule (pre-War & during BMA)? They're no Ghurkas, but on the whole took well to regimented life - better than the quarrelsome Chinese.
2ndly, local textbooks don't touch on this, but have you any idea how culturally dislocating it was an entire community (tens of thousands) to urbanize within a decade (let alone a generational timeframe) from their kampong roots? It wasn't always a smooth transition for the Malays who chose to stay on here after Separation; many of these less fortunate Baby-boomers (including Chinese too) ended up alienated during the '70s, taking refuge in hedonism & drugs, & the latter was when the "slacker" impression got associated with the Malays.
the past is the past...u look at it now..we're not talking abt the past..we're talking abt the present...
not meaning to spark a flamewar here...but at least i agree to fudgester's comment...
personally...i grew up never to have a malay's mentality by my parents....
and i am thankful for that....
we're not wanting to be racists...if u read from our replies..i think we plainly want to see a change of attitude... to bring back the so called glory days of malay society...
oh yuh...wanna add on to my cultural observation....there are malays that tend to dwell in the past....never wanting to look at the present and the future
like those 'zaman lama'(previous generation) kinda topics..
i hope the replies are treated with respect and not be viewed as volatile... -
There's a mentioning of malay officers in SAF
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yerp yerpOriginally posted by HeckKER:There's a mentioning of malay officers in SAF -
There are Malay officers and specialists in the SPF,SAF and SCDF.
But to our Malay friends,although I view you the same as my indian friends,I have only one question.One day,if M'sia or Indon goes to war with S'pore,and you are in a foxhole with me facing a charge by a battalion of them.Will you fire at and kill them?Throw grenades at them?Request airstrikes at them?To stop them from killing us,to stop them from destroying our culture,to stop them from destroying our favourite hangouts,families,friends?
Though I'm a chinese,I will gladly do it for u.As you are a fellow S'porean and you wear the uniform of the SAF with pride.But the question still lies,will you aim and pull the trigger at your fellow muslim brothers who also have their own family and friends and are merely acting out on the orders from their superiors?Especially so to those who have relatives in either Indon or Malaysia and you see that your cousin or friends are charging at us?Will you fire your weapon and kill them without any hesistation the way your training has taught you?That is the question.
Sorry if what I have posted is direct,as this is the harshness of reality.
**Do note there are also no Malays in MG platoons/sections,and I posted the above scenario was given by noneother then the MM himself when Indon President Habbie was in power and condemned SG for not having any Malay officers.** -
dont think that Sg malays like MY malays so much......ure just assuming too much of our loyalty...being malay didnt help ppl like me in doing anything....onli makes things harder...
btw..habibie is a retard...didnt even last long in power.... -
No quite correct - in my unit, some of the MG, 84mm and ATGM crews are Malays. Some of them are my good friends.Originally posted by SpecOps87:**Do note there are also no Malays in MG platoons/sections,and I posted the above scenario was given by noneother then the MM himself when Indon President Habbie was in power and condemned SG for not having any Malay officers.** -
yeah......when i was a kid....a malay encik taught me how to use the MILAN in the AOH...Originally posted by bcoy:No quite correct - in my unit, some of the MG, 84mm and ATGM crews are Malays. Some of them are my good friends. -
the past is the past...u look at it now..we're not talking abt the past..we're talking abt the present...
I don't get it, why should the past be dismissed as if it belonged to a different universe? It's only 40 years since Independence, some 60+ years since the Japs invaded.
But let's stick to the "present", as you suggest. Have you any idea, when in the service, how disciplined the Malays can be, by finding time to do the 5 daily prayers when they're just as "shack"-tired as the rest of the troops?
How tough they can be when they fast during Ramadan (no water, not just no food) & continue their normal duties?
How diligent they are in real-life emergencies, when their NSFs go deep down into the collapsed shafts at Nicholl Highway, or plunge into the tsunami-ravaged surroundings at Krabi & Khao Pak, or attack fires with their water hoses while being burdened with heavy fireman equipment?
The SAF may not conscript many Malays as part of its mono-intake batches, but that doesn't mean their PES A/B-fit (mostly drafted by the SCDF & the SPS) & their PES C-fit (service vocations in the SAF) are ethnically slackers. They're as hardworking as everyone else - just somehow don't show up on your radar, that's all. -
it shows up in my radar clearly as i have replied earlier in this topic...thats y i didnt generalise...Originally posted by Moxie:I don't get it, why should the past be dismissed as if it belonged to a different universe? It's only 40 years since Independence, some 60+ years since the Japs invaded.
But let's stick to the "present", as you suggest. Have you any idea, when in the service, how disciplined the Malays can be, by finding time to do the 5 daily prayers when they're just as "shack"-tired as the rest of the troops?
How tough they can be when they fast during Ramadan (no water, not just no food) & continue their normal duties?
How diligent they are in real-life emergencies, when their NSFs go deep down into the collapsed shafts at Nicholl Highway, or plunge into the tsunami-ravaged surroundings at Krabi & Khao Pak, or attack fires with their water hoses while being burdened with heavy fireman equipment?
The SAF may not conscript many Malays as part of its mono-intake batches, but that doesn't mean their PES A/B-fit (mostly drafted by the SCDF & the SPS) & their PES C-fit (service vocations in the SAF) are ethnically slackers. They're as hardworking as everyone else - just somehow don't show up on your radar, that's all.
kudos to people like that in the service...
we're talking abt the the society...
i'm not saying anything...but are u malay?
if yes...i rest my case cos malays got different views on topics like this and u are one of the impressive cases and respect to u from me......
if no...grow up in a malay society and u'd understand...
thats y i said earlier in this topic that there are 2 kinds of malays...those that are very impressive like the ones u have given in ure reply....
and those that couldnt be bothered....
no in between one...i stress it again......
thank you for giving such good examples of impressive malays.....and i am not meaning to be sarcastic...its nice that there are people are giving examples like that than giving exaples like 'Would u malays kill a malay enemy'.... -
It shows up clear on my radar too, Moxie.Originally posted by Moxie:I don't get it, why should the past be dismissed as if it belonged to a different universe? It's only 40 years since Independence, some 60+ years since the Japs invaded.
But let's stick to the "present", as you suggest. Have you any idea, when in the service, how disciplined the Malays can be, by finding time to do the 5 daily prayers when they're just as "shack"-tired as the rest of the troops?
How tough they can be when they fast during Ramadan (no water, not just no food) & continue their normal duties?
How diligent they are in real-life emergencies, when their NSFs go deep down into the collapsed shafts at Nicholl Highway, or plunge into the tsunami-ravaged surroundings at Krabi & Khao Pak, or attack fires with their water hoses while being burdened with heavy fireman equipment?
The SAF may not conscript many Malays as part of its mono-intake batches, but that doesn't mean their PES A/B-fit (mostly drafted by the SCDF & the SPS) & their PES C-fit (service vocations in the SAF) are ethnically slackers. They're as hardworking as everyone else - just somehow don't show up on your radar, that's all.
In case if you have yet to realise it, I'm Malay as well. I've been a Malay all my life - 21.5 years to be precise, give or take a few days.
What I said about the majority of Malays being slackers is based on cold hard facts and my own personal experiences. You can just go and look at the statistics - Malays are the worst performing race of all in the major examinations in Singapore, for instance.
If statistics don't tell the whole story, my personal experiences serve to add on to them. As I proceeded further up the academic ladder the number of Malays I got to know declined. A lot of my Malay friends simply faltered on their way up - not because of personal circumstances, but because of pure laziness.
For instance, I remember one Malay friend who had gotten 262 points for his PSLE. He eventually dropped Higher Malay and A Maths simply because 'I couldn't care less'. He got 19 points for his L1R4 in the O Levels - he was too ashamed to tell me his L1R5. Many other Malay friends who did better than I did for the PSLE also similarly faltered along the way - because they were simply too lazy to work hard and put in the effort.
Sidestep and I are not discriminating against our own race. We are just stating the plain, simple and ultimately, ugly truth: the majority of Malays are simply not willing to put in the effort. I've had discussions with my Malay friends regarding this, and this was the consensus as well. -
All im sure is that, if those western pple/ china pple ever invades SG, no doubt , i will shoot and fire @ them.
Question 1 :
Will they all use Israeli-made weapons?
Question 2 :
What do they think of the Zionist Movement?
Question 3:
If the enemy was hiding in a place of religion , church/mosque for example,
would you use your AGM-65 Missiles if you are a pilot? -
The day we see each other as Singaporeans but not as Chinese/Malay/Indian/eurasian is the day we become less segregated..Originally posted by fudgester:It shows up clear on my radar too, Moxie.
In case if you have yet to realise it, I'm Malay as well. I've been a Malay all my life - 21.5 years to be precise, give or take a few days.
What I said about the majority of Malays being slackers is based on cold hard facts and my own personal experiences. You can just go and look at the statistics - Malays are the worst performing race of all in the major examinations in Singapore, for instance.
If statistics don't tell the whole story, my personal experiences serve to add on to them. As I proceeded further up the academic ladder the number of Malays I got to know declined. A lot of my Malay friends simply faltered on their way up - not because of personal circumstances, but because of pure laziness.
For instance, I remember one Malay friend who had gotten 262 points for his PSLE. He eventually dropped Higher Malay and A Maths simply because 'I couldn't care less'. He got 19 points for his L1R4 in the O Levels - he was too ashamed to tell me his L1R5. Many other Malay friends who did better than I did for the PSLE also similarly faltered along the way - because they were simply too lazy to work hard and put in the effort.
Sidestep and I are not discriminating against our own race. We are just stating the plain, simple and ultimately, ugly truth: the majority of Malays are simply not willing to put in the effort. I've had discussions with my Malay friends regarding this, and this was the consensus as well. -
Erm guys...esp. to e malay forumnites...you guys have nt answered my question yet...
**The SPIKE ATGM is jointly developed by the SAF and Israeli Armed Forces.** -
reason is simple la
just take a look at our surrounding countries you roughly know the reason -
If it can wipe out the tanks which threaten to defile my land with their presence and destroy our way of life and kill my families and friends.... yes.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Erm guys...esp. to e malay forumnites...you guys have nt answered my question yet...
**The SPIKE ATGM is jointly developed by the SAF and Israeli Armed Forces.**
I'm not an ATGM gunner, so I don't face that kind of situation anyway..... -
Turkey is the only muslim country which is friendly to israel...
Um... -
Regardless, I wish that I qould never have to fire a shot at anyone, regardless of race, language or religion.
Taking a person's life, even in the name of self-defence, isn't something to be sniffed at. I don't know whether I can live with that for the rest of my life.
May Singapore never have to go to war. -
amen to that... Singaporean first..always...Originally posted by fudgester:Regardless, I wish that I qould never have to fire a shot at anyone, regardless of race, language or religion.
Taking a person's life, even in the name of self-defence, isn't something to be sniffed at. I don't know whether I can live with that for the rest of my life.
May Singapore never have to go to war.
off topic...
wats wrong with using Israeli weapons anywaes?....
did u noe that the ISAAK LBV is one of the most well designed in the world?
A weapon is a weapon....
the AK47 was used against the afghans when the soviets invaded...now u see almost every terrorist using 'em...not meaning to point fingers...but i think u get wat i mean.... -
not saying anything arh......Originally posted by SpecOps87:Erm guys...esp. to e malay forumnites...you guys have nt answered my question yet...
**The SPIKE ATGM is jointly developed by the SAF and Israeli Armed Forces.**
but do u look at where it is made?...
SERGEANT!!!! I refuse to fire this fine piece of weaponry due to it being manufactured in Israel...
why miss out on a good thing.....
the Spike is a well-made piece of tank killing machinery... -
But still,you guys are not answering the essential part of my post.Will you aim at and fire at a fellow Muslim knowing very surely that your weapon is loaded with LIVE ammunition which is able to kill and maim?
So as I said,the Million Dollar question is,will you be shoot at them?Fellow Muslims,although I do agree that it is never a good feeling to kill a fellow human being regardless of race,language,religioun or nationality.But when the need arises,and you have been assigned to do such a duty,will you perform the way you have been trained? -
depends on the person...Originally posted by SpecOps87:But still,you guys are not answering the essential part of my post.Will you aim at and fire at a fellow Muslim knowing very surely that your weapon is loaded with LIVE ammunition which is able to kill and maim?
So as I said,the Million Dollar question is,will you be shoot at them?Fellow Muslims,although I do agree that it is never a good feeling to kill a fellow human being regardless of race,language,religioun or nationality.But when the need arises,and you have been assigned to do such a duty,will you perform the way you have been trained?
bluntly...to me...yes....
y?
i train with my buddy...share alot of good times and even more bad times...y should i treat a person whom i dont noe...that is the same race...that is trying to kill me and my buddy otherwise?
war is a bad thing...
in the end..its abt surviving...that includes me and my friends...
screw everything else...its not as complicated as u think u noe...its black and white
Choice 1....fight for my land
Choice 2....don't fire a thing..be labeled a traitor... -
Sidenote - there are Muslims in the IDF too. The Druze Muslims are very good scouts I think.
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Israel population is 76.7% jews i think...
Singapore population is 77% Chinese
(Extracted from wikipedia and visitsingapore.com)
Sometimes its just seems that the two countries are so similar..
Both are small..
Both are vulnerable..
Both are surrounded..
Both have capable militaries..
Both are extremely good friends..